Well with Daniel Erickson (and apparently a large section of the writing staff) leaving, I'd say SGRA is pretty dead in the water no mater what some CM says. Unless its already made and they're just holding it back to put on the F2P cash shop, pretty hard to add real story content with a skeleton crew.

Daniel Erickson leaving BW Austin?

Hi folks, I'm here to give a quick update to this issue. It's not much, but we actually do not have any new information to share with you at this time. Should that change, I'll be more than happy to update this thread!

 

Thanks for your patience and thank you for supporting the game! As I mentioned in the email to Uluain, we really do appreciate your discussions on here and we are definitely keeping tabs.

 

MTFBWY

I'm sorry to say that, should this not become a feature by the beginning of next year, I really will be to the breaking point. I'm sorry, but I really only chose to play this game on the promise of same-gender romances and I am kind of tired of not having that.

It certainly does not help that in order to get certain perks, I have to go through all the conversations with my companions...and I am extremely androphobic (for those who don't know their Greek, I have an extreme fear/phobia of men). That means that any flirtation options with male characters is upsetting to me and can impact my playing experience.

Honestly, I don't care about HK-51, a robot I found annoying in KOTOR 1 & 2, or about Party Jawas, or any of that stuff, really. This is the only thing I really want in this game. I love this game. I enjoy it. I hope that you guys do not follow the way of Star Trek Online and end up relying upon content written by the players and releasing next to no updates and forcing people to buy keys to open lock boxes.

Heck, if you want...hire me as a writer and I'll help write stories for you guys (so long as I don't have to actually move since I don't like leaving Vermont).

You can't choose this over Galaxies... Galaxies no longer exists... it stopped existing when TOR came into being. xP And it hasn't been a full year... besides... they're working on new content now... an "expansion" of sorts which MAY or MAY NOT include SGRAs....

I meant that I didn't have any interest in Galaxies when it existed because it was just another MMO with a StarWars skin on it. The multiple story feature in SWtOR was the only thing that got me back into playing an MMO at all. But cutting the SGRAs and leaving most of the companion missions as mere FTB scenes makes me think they had little intention of making the game they promised and just wanted some "easy" WOW money and just tacked on some story to dazzle people who didn't know any better. Though I still hope eventually they decide to turn things back around. Despite months of promises of new story expansion the only thing appearing in updates is multiplayer balance. And I have zero interest in competitive multiplayer. And then there's EAs promise that they won't be making any more single player only games ever.

And I have zero interest in competitive multiplayer. And then there's EAs promise that they won't be making any more single player only games ever.

I was hoping you were kidding, so I went for a soul-crushing Google check.

Nope, they actually did make that promise/threat. Ah well, at least I know not to bother getting excited for DA3.

I was hoping you were kidding, so I went for a soul-crushing Google check.

 

Nope, they actually did make that promise/threat. Ah well, at least I know not to bother getting excited for DA3.

When they said that I think they were only referring to EA and not its subsidiary companies and development studios. Which isn't really saying much as EA sports is about the division that makes games anymore. Also I'm pretty sure they just meant that every game would have the option of multiplayer content, not that there would never be another EA game with a single player mode.

I was hoping you were kidding, so I went for a soul-crushing Google check.

 

Nope, they actually did make that promise/threat. Ah well, at least I know not to bother getting excited for DA3.

Don't be too disheartened. That still leaves them plenty of room for small-scope multiplayer. I mean they could argue that Mass Effect 3 isn't 'single player only'. They could do something similar with DA3 (if they ever actually make it) and have a single-player storyline with multiplayer capability added in.

Don't be too disheartened. That still leaves them plenty of room for small-scope multiplayer. I mean they could argue that Mass Effect 3 isn't 'single player only'. They could do something similar with DA3 (if they ever actually make it) and have a single-player storyline with multiplayer capability added in.

Didn't ME3 require you get a certain multi-player level to unlock part of the ending?

I don't know... I'm a curmudgeon from the Atari 2600 generation, so I don't care if people can click "Like" on Facebook when my Warden kills the Broodmother. Games like Unreal Tournament or whatever is the modern equivalent of Quake that are MP based from the get-go, great - not everything has to do that.

(And I'm hopelessly off-topic. Apologies.)

Didn't ME3 require you get a certain multi-player level to unlock part of the ending?

 

I don't know... I'm a curmudgeon from the Atari 2600 generation, so I don't care if people can click "Like" on Facebook when my Warden kills the Broodmother. Games like Unreal Tournament or whatever is the modern equivalent of Quake that are MP based from the get-go, great - not everything has to do that.

I'm from the NES generation and I know the feeling.

The short answer on the ME3 thing is that multiplayer was one way to unlock the best end. There were like five different ways to do it. Multiplayer was one of the big ones, but so were playing some Ipad promotional minigame and importing ME2 save games.

Ah. I better steer things again.

If there's "no new information", and "nothing's changed", where does that actually stand with other Yellow posts that have said story is on the back-burner and Makeb won't be Act 4? Which time-line's accurate now?

How is it less cost efficient to use known voice actors with whom they have contracted to continue their roles in the future than it is to audition, contract and record new actors for new companions?

 

But this is a very old question, and one that while Daniel Erickson has indicated is in fact pretty much decided, he has also said he won't tell us.

 

Truly - no changes for SGRAs, indeed.

It's always easier to add new content in then try and go back and edit existing content which usually ends up with lots of bugs and issues... Anyways I would put money down that you guys will never see SGRA's in this game..... If Bioware really wanted to put them in the game they would of been there from the get go.... Seriously how hard would it be to add the options in there when they were designing the game... It would of been a piece of cake...

My guess is EA didn't want any commotion about SGRA's during the launch of the game and Bioware was going to try and sneak it in with an expansion... but now that the game is struggling I doubt your going to see it...

My guess is EA didn't want any commotion about SGRA's during the launch of the game and Bioware was going to try and sneak it in with an expansion... but now that the game is struggling I doubt your going to see it...

There was a huge fuss from the sort of people who make a commotion about this kind of thing anyway on the basis that it is to be included. They responded at the time by saying that they had no intention of changing their mind. They've been through it already, even though the feature isn't in yet (a fact that seems to have been missed by those adamantly opposing its inclusion.

I also want to remind people that we really were told in March that updates on SGR from the Dev Team would be sparse to nil until they were ready to roll this out. What I have been working to find out is whether the plan has changed on account of the changes at BioWare and for the game that has happened since.

It took a while, but we did get that clarified here at the 1 year mark since the announcement and the 6 month mark since our last informational update. They haven't told us anything before because there's been no new developments.

The info we have is still the plan: SGRs will be a feature of the game. The target window for getting them in is still loosely this year. A timeframe is the hardest prediction to make. It's a goal. It may be December, it may be next April, but this is still on the way.

Staffing changes at BioWare Austin have not changed this. The shift to F2P hasn't changed this. That's what this announcement was to clarify -- see the longer quote from Joveth in my post above his in-thread appearance.

Stephen Reid never said it would be soon after launch. He just said it would be in, but not at launch. He also said that it was unusual for them to talk about something that far ahead of when they could get it in. Daniel Erickson did say "with story content this year", but he also said not to expect another update on this content any time soon.

I don't think we'll hear anything new about this until after 1.4 is in and F2P is live. Those are what the focus is on now. That's as expected. But asked to clarify whether the info we have is still the plan, Alllison & Joveth were finally able to tell us (through whatever NDA considerations limit what they can say) that yes, it's still the plan. That's all the update we are getting right now.

Also we did get information from Joveth that had never been explicitly laid out before, and which was causing hard feeling and misunderstanding -- namely, why this is one thread and not many. It's to keep up with the trolls drawn by the controversial nature of the subject matter. I don't think that Joveth knew that had never actually been explained. I had guessed as much, and said so here. That's been confirmed.

They have also been plain that when there is a substantive update, which they do expect to someday have, this thread is the first place we'll hear it.

You have no idea what I put these poor, busy people through in explaining why we needed current statements confirmed. They thought we understood it was still the plan. It is still the plan. That is good news, no reading between the lines needed. They are standing by what has already been said.

I am not going to post the entirety of my conversations with Allison and Joveth that got us here, but I have been talking to both of them. They aren't ignoring us out of any prejudicial sentiment. It's because I was able to explain how things made it look that way that it finally got through why an appearance in this thread was needed. I made a monumental nuisance of myself, but once I had the chance to lay it all out, they got it and it's why Joveth popped in.

At this point I can't help but wonder whether the decision to ignore this particular demographic is motivated by something else than time and resource restrictions. It's sad to see a branch of Bioware as bigots, but there you have it.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have considered this at the very least in passing. I don't think it's the case.

Bioware is a pretty stubborn company in many ways, often to their detriment (as this prolonged period of silence - only recently broken - shows). I think if they wanted to avoid putting SGRAs in at all they'd just have said, 'We've decided not to put them in because we want to present SWTOR as a family game.'

Yes, it's a flawed argument. No, I don't think it's valid. But it's the one people usually give as an excuse to be homophobic. Bioware could have pulled the Family Friendly card and then fended off the uproar by simply ignoring it. But they didn't.

Instead they declared they intended to put it in but couldn't - yet. That statement might have the LGBTI crowd going, 'Well, it sucks that it's not in but they're putting it in, right?' but it got the homophobic lobbyists all up in arms and Bioware fended off attacks from them - the group that is larger, generally at least as vocal and for the most part a LOT better funded.

They knew they were going to anger one group or the other; they chose the larger and (arguably) more politically volatile group. So no, I don't think they're bigots. What's more, I do believe that it was a time and budgeting constraint that stopped them going in. Considering they got attacked by a herd of homophobic bulls over it I really don't think they're lying.

But I do think they need to communicate with us more regarding these features, and I do think their silence is hurting them more than their conversation would.

Also we did get information from Joveth that had never been explicitly laid out before, and which was causing hard feeling and misunderstanding -- namely, why this is one thread and not many. It's to keep up with the trolls drawn by the controversial nature of the subject matter. I don't think that Joveth knew that had never actually been explained. I had guessed as much, and said so here. That's been confirmed.

 

They have also been plain that when there is a substantive update, which they do expect to someday have, this thread is the first place we'll hear it.

 

You have no idea what I put these poor, busy people through in explaining why we needed current statements confirmed. They thought we understood it was still the plan. It is still the plan. That is good news, no reading between the lines needed. They are standing by what has already been said.

 

I am not going to post the entirety of my conversations with Allison and Joveth that got us here, but I have been talking to both of them. They aren't ignoring us out of any prejudicial sentiment. It's because I was able to explain how things made it look that way that it finally got through why an appearance in this thread was needed. I made a monumental nuisance of myself, but once I had the chance to lay it all out, they got it and it's why Joveth popped in.

I'm glad that you got an answer for someone...when I tried, I got nothing.

For me, this is kind of a big deal, ok. I have such a strong reaction to the 'flirt' option with the male NPC's that there are times I've had to walk away from the game to calm down. It also doesn't help that there are times when the only non-flirt option loses me points of affection with a male companion. Given that those points affect game play, it's a bit of a big deal.

It's always easier to add new content in then try and go back and edit existing content which usually ends up with lots of bugs and issues... Anyways I would put money down that you guys will never see SGRA's in this game..... If Bioware really wanted to put them in the game they would of been there from the get go.... Seriously how hard would it be to add the options in there when they were designing the game... It would of been a piece of cake...

The most likely reason SGRA wasn't in at launch is pretty much the same reason for most problems with the story. TORs development was taking too long and badly over budget and so they spent the last 9 months of development rushing to get something out the door.

Another thing they've never said about SGR is that it would be on existing companions. From BW's prospective I could see some advantages to only doing a couple of universal endgame only companions. The big downside to that though is that it might not be enough to bring back players for whom lack of SGR was a key reason for leaving.

From BW's prospective I could see some advantages to only doing a couple of universal endgame only companions. The big downside to that though is that it might not be enough to bring back players for whom lack of SGR was a key reason for leaving.

Advantages? Yes and no. It'd be to financial benefit, certainly - there's no denying it'd be cheaper - but it would look very much like a cursory tip of the proverbial hat to LGBT people, and not 'doing it right' as they've stated outright they want to do. I think that in the end it would be a huge error on their part - while it would save bucks in the short term it would seriously damage their reputation long-term.

For me, this is kind of a big deal, ok. I have such a strong reaction to the 'flirt' option with the male NPC's that there are times I've had to walk away from the game to calm down. It also doesn't help that there are times when the only non-flirt option loses me points of affection with a male companion. Given that those points affect game play, it's a bit of a big deal.

I have a little of this too. I'm MtFTrans IRL, and playing as a guy is very uncomfortable for me. The way the male NPCs treat female PCs is really creepy though. I'm actually Bi, but the way guys come on to the PC weirds me the hell out. They come on so strong my first thought is usually "mental note: do not accept drinks from this guy EVER." I don't know who wrote some of that stuff, but they need somebody to slap the stupid out of them if they think it is okay to talk to girls like that. And don't even get me started on how female IAs actually get Light Side points for using sex to get their way.

The way the male NPCs treat female PCs is really creepy though. I'm actually Bi, but the way guys come on to the PC weirds me the hell out. They come on so strong my first thought is usually "mental note: do not accept drinks from this guy EVER." I don't know who wrote some of that stuff, but they need somebody to slap the stupid out of them if they think it is okay to talk to girls like that.

I found Doc to be quite like that. But Iresso started hitting on my Sage recently and I thought he was actually sort of sweet about it. Not Doc-like at all. Sort of smooth but awkward at the same time, with a big dose of Cautious-because-you-could-kick-my-*** thrown in.

And don't even get me started on how female IAs actually get Light Side points for using sex to get their way.

I haven't seen that but I guess it might have to do with the other ways they have to choose from. If you choose pleasure instead of horrifyingly mutilating torture, for example, you might be doing it because you actually don't want to hurt the person you're manipulating - which would arguably warrant LS points, I think. But that's speculation because as I said I haven't seen that in the IA story yet.

I'm glad that you got an answer for someone...when I tried, I got nothing.

I won't go into details, but I just didn't give up and used every avenue of communication at our disposal. Going from my email records, I've been working on this for a few weeks. Sometimes I was able to be more reasonable than others. But I did keep trying and eventually it got through. Once it did, I had a good discussion with Joveth. I think I have Allison to thank for putting him in touch.

They are both incredibly busy people, and I think they simply didn't realize we no longer knew if the news we'd had a year ago and then last March was still current. Once Joveth got in touch, he took the time to be sure he heard me out and understood the issue. Allison made sure we had the chance to have that talk.

For me, this is kind of a big deal, ok. I have such a strong reaction to the 'flirt' option with the male NPC's that there are times I've had to walk away from the game to calm down. It also doesn't help that there are times when the only non-flirt option loses me points of affection with a male companion. Given that those points affect game play, it's a bit of a big deal.

It is only an irritation for me. But to the extent that I get angry from playing my Smuggler -- which is a shame. I love the game and really like how Gunslinger plays, and I like the RP personal my character has. I even like his lines. But when I encounter a female NPC, it is tediously predictable that I will likely have at least one [Flirt]. I am glad in general those are there. It's a fun concept. But depressing because of course there's no same-gender option at all. At least not yet.

I have actually had to put my Gunslinger down for a bit and level other classes. It was getting too personal and as much of a pest as I made myself here as it was, I'd have gotten totally out of line, gone batsh*t crazy on the forums and gotten banned. But I had the sense to see it, and thank the hyperspatial matrix I am on my meds.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who have considered this at the very least in passing. I don't think it's the case.

Eh, honestly, I this you're being far too generous here. First, they decide that the LGBT demographic is not important enough to deserve inclusion in their game, and then they simply ignore the issue for a bloody year. That's some rank, vile nonsense, no matter how you cut it. Basically, I am thinking they're under the impression that they can avoid criticism on this issue because they're a Bioware studio, which has a better record than most when it comes social issues, which is just cowardly.

Either you made a game that's inclusive to alternative lifestyles, or you made a game that is just another pile of heteronormativity, which is inherently exclusionary. Time to stop kidding ourselves.

Eh, honestly, I this you're being far too generous here. First, they decide that the LGBT demographic is not important enough to deserve inclusion in their game...

No, they didn't:

First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

That was a comment made to clarify the decision as soon as the "post lauch content" was initially made. They knew it was an awkward decision and while not precisely an apology, at least acknowleged how this might come across, and that they wanted especially to avoid that impression.

...and then they simply ignore the issue for a bloody year.

No, they didn't. It is true we waited six months from that initial announcement to hear anything more specific. We did have to raise a ruckus to get that update, but we did get it at the Guild Summit last March, and it did specifically address several of the points we'd wanted clarified.

We were told at the time that the content could not be rushed, that it would take time, and that they wanted to do a thorough job rather than the same scenes with different pronouns. We were also advised that status updates would be few and far between, and we'd likely not here much more until they were gearing up to introduce the content. Their target

time frame for that was given as "this year".

So it hasn't been ignored, we just haven't heard as much as we might like.

I have not been shy with my observation that the initial decision to move ahead without same-gender romantic options was an unfortunate one, not the least because without them the game genuinely is dismayingly heterosexist. Also because, having made that decision, BioWare simultaneously alienated two groups at once, and there is little they can do to move forward gracefully.

Some aspects of how this subject have been handled here on the forums have also tended to present the impression of dismissiveness. That is something which I have been working since mid-August to see addressed. Once the discussion was able to take place, I am reassured.

Should this have been in at launch? Yes, I think it ought to have been, or else all romantic content should have been held for future release. That blunder paved the way for all of the frustration and misapprehension that followed, but it cannot be undone now. What can be done is to develop the content and add it. It's now been confirmed that no, it has not been abandoned and yes, it is on the way and they still hope to get it in around when they said they were aiming to do so.

The unfortunate impression which could be construed from this topic being limited to this thread has finally been put to rest with a frank explanation that they need to set it up this way in order to stay on top of trolling and other abusive posts. They have done a remarkably patient and thorough job of that all along.

When players who want not to have same-gender romance in game pressed for the option for prompts offering the choice to be hidden by a toggle, we were allowed to express why that was unnecessary and uncalled for. When the discussion became hopelessly repetetive, the forum moderators determined that asking for a toggle where none was felt necessary for opposite gender romantic content qualified as discriminatory speech. I was here for the toggle debate, but had to turn my attention to other affairs before the community team settled it in our favor. That was a pleasant discovery when I returned.

Please believe me. I have shared these same frustrations and even at times felt like this was a deliberate affront. I do know where you are coming from and I have been there. But quite aside from an update on the status of this content -- that in spite of internal reorganization at BioWare Austin and a directional change toward F2P, SGRs are very much still in the works -- what I came away with from my conversations with Allison and Joveth is that they do understand that this is important, and they regret anything that makes the situation seem discriminatory because they honestly are supportive of this content and this subset of the player community.

I wish that everyone could have a chance to talk with them personally, but they really are incredibly busy. It says a lot that they took my concerns seriously enough to contact me personally. I didn't do that for my own gratification, but to be able to clear these matters up here. They are doing the best they can in the situation they have. It's not what we'd want in a perfect world, but it isn't deliberate cold-shouldering either. I want this in as much as anyone. I want more news as much as anyone. They want it in, too, and the community team really will be here to give us news when they can.

TL;DR -- Yeah, it's easy to see where one can arrive at an unfortunate impression from the way this has come down, but the folks on the Community Team have gone out of their way talk this exact issue over with me very patiently. They are on our side, really. The situation is just inherently frustrating all around.

Well that's enough for me. A year past and nothing has been done yet so I've gotta unsub. It just costs too much when I'm not even playing for lack of interest as far as the romances go. The story is the whole reason I joined this one over Galaxies but the missing choices just grate on me whenever I try to play. Maybe I'll come back if they fix it after all like they promised so long ago. And I have a few days left to just watch and see before I go somewhere else for my entertainment.

I know how you feel. It was a really neat surprise to see the reply from Joveth Gonzalez just now, but I'm still not sure how I'm going to do about my subscription once my current Game Time Card runs out at the end of the month.

I figure I'll have finished the Smuggler story at that point, meaning I'm done playing Han Solo and will want to roll a female character again. In all likelihood a Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight, so I'll finally experience a Force user's story. But I'm not sure I want to do that unless there's same-sex romance content available. (Granted, I've been considering a Jedi character that abstains from romantic relationships, but I'm not so sure about that.)

Once the game goes F2P, SGRA will be the factor that decides whether I continue subscribing or just play for free.