The bad guys lose in Star Wars. Palpatine got the closest, and he did it via manipulating the democratic system and not warfare. The Sith are in Star Wars to provide an opponent for the heroic Jedi. They aren't the main characters.

So, what you're telling me, is that the part about the empire, i always considered the most stupid, both from ingame, and out of game, came about because George Lucas is petty?

Figures

 

The Empire is George Lucas's Atlas Shrugged!

look given that this is a faction based MMO, I think we can take a few bits of things in mind. most importantly..odds are the next chapter will see the Empire win. they'll use an Isotope 5 weapon as their dues ex machina to I dunno obliterate a key republic offensive that leaves the Republic vulnerable to a counter offensive.

 

winning the war in SW:TOR is a bit like getting off the island in Gilligan's island. it won't happen because that would end the series.

look given that this is a faction based MMO, I think we can take a few bits of things in mind. most importantly..odds are the next chapter will see the Empire win. they'll use an Isotope 5 weapon as their dues ex machina to I dunno obliterate a key republic offensive that leaves the Republic vulnerable to a counter offensive.

 

winning the war in SW:TOR is a bit like getting off the island in Gilligan's island. it won't happen because that would end the series.

 

Yep. To the OP: the Emperor is "presumed dead" by the Republic. His spirit is alive and recovering. I bet he'll return in a future xpack and the Republic will have egg on its face after publicly announcing they took him out (see end of Makeb storyline).

look given that this is a faction based MMO, I think we can take a few bits of things in mind. most importantly..odds are the next chapter will see the Empire win. they'll use an Isotope 5 weapon as their dues ex machina to I dunno obliterate a key republic offensive that leaves the Republic vulnerable to a counter offensive.

 

winning the war in SW:TOR is a bit like getting off the island in Gilligan's island. it won't happen because that would end the series.

 

I don't know. Maybe the Sith classes decide to get out while the getting is good and start their own empires somewhere while the bounty hunter and agent seek opportunities with new employer. I think it might be very interesting if the Empire slowly died during the life the games as we know they will.

So from what I've been hearing, by the point in the timeline of "March to Makeb", the Republic has won "a few key victories", some of which are obvious, i.e. Balmorra. But where are the Empire's victories?

 

What are my fellow Imps' thoughts on this predictable turn of events? Even though we all know who ultimately wins, is there any hope of breaking through the Republic plot armor for a few decades/centuries, or is it just going to be a one-way ticket to defeat?

 

In other words---the Emperor's gone. Malgus is gone. Corellia is lost. Balmorra is lost. Probably most of the other planets are lost. What has the Empire actually won since the Sacking of Coruscant? It sometimes feels like in the next content update, Republic troopers will be storming Kaas City.

 

We're not done yet. What has the Empire won? Corellia's still in Republic hands, sure - but it's not going to be adding much to the Republic war effort for a long time to come, and the Green Jedi are gone. On Taris, we cost the Republic quadrillions of credits and a nasty hit to morale, both in the failed rebuilding and in the hidden warfleet that Empire characters destroy on the ground in the Bonus series.

 

Supreme Chancellor Janarus is either dead having confessed his crimes over the HoloNet (at the hands of DS! Bounty Hunter) or resigned in disgrace (if LS! Bounty Hunter spares him), causing considerable political uncertainty within the Galactic Senate.

 

And remember: so far, we're still at the point where the Republic is retaking worlds we took off them in the last war. They haven't done any damage yet to core Imperial worlds - the raid on Dromund Kaas was costly for the Republic and didn't inflict any material damage on the Empire's capital, and no other core Imperial world has even been touched.

 

Further:

 

 

 

 

If the Sith will only realise that now is not the time to quarrel among ourselves, this war is still very winnable. And Sith have co-operated before for extended periods of time...such as immediately prior to the Treaty of Coruscant.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Highborne

The Greens were a small splinter group of Jedi, and while the blows were struck, their Order still has some survivors. Meanwhile, losing 10% of your forces when you can't afford attrition tactics? Well, that's gotta suck. Losing the Chancelor? Well, the Republic isn't much affected. Clear line of succession was established, and Suresh is a lot more cold-blooded than her predecessor what's-his-name. Oh, and we have a few gaping holes in the Dark Council. Plus, when Malgus decided to start a civil war? Well, the Imps lose one of the only Darths capable of seeing past the tip of his lightsaber and an even larger chunk of military personnel and hardware they couldn't afford. Yeah, Darth Cthulu is looking for a new host, but he's out of play (at least for a while) , and even when he gets back in the game, he's doesn't even give a flying @#!@# about his own Empire! Omnicidal nut, remember?

 

The Republic gets Balmorra: Nasty bugs (mostly released because some Imperial dimwit wanted to sabotage someone doing a better job than him), lots of pollution, but the BIGGEST intact weapon and droid factories in the Core. The Imperials get Taris: Ruins, Rakghouls, and...not much else. If the Pubs had to throw a planet under the bus, Taris is the one that costs them the least. Yeah, it's a morale loss...but only morale. Now, they can put the credits they were throwing away into something that will actually yield a return on investment - like those wonderfully nasty droid factories.

 

It's hard to take the Empire seriously when they have lunatics like Lachris and twits like the Bounty Hunter's Balmorran contact running things. It's even harder to take seriously when they don't even have a paved road going from their capitol city to their primary spaceport and the slave labor is set to work building momuments to the Darths' egos instead of infrastructure. Massively misplaced priorities, forces stretched way too thin, boneheaded tactics, and the nutcases in charge are more interested in fighting each other than anything else.

 

I'm actually disappointed in Bioware here. They did such a GREAT job in Knights 1 with the Empire. There was a logical reason they had the resources and manpower. Uthar and Yuthura explained the Sith Code and the thought process behind it in a way that made sense. Even as over the top as Malak was, he had some logical thought going on. You could see why people followed him to their deaths, and followed Darth Revan into hell. Heck, one of their top-notch writers even got us cheering for Darth freaking Bane. BioWare had a great opportunity to make a case for the Empire, and they blew it on cartoon supervillainy.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Allronix

is a paved road important when your vehicles fly or hover?

Nope. If anything, I hate the Imperials more when I'm playing one and am so freaking glad my relationship to those idiots boils down to "you pay me."

.

 

Really? my first character was a consular so I was very nervous when I made the tranisiton to my Inquisitor who is now my fave! Anyway...

 

While playing my sorcerer, I saw a more sympethetic side of the imperial people. aside from the very vocal bastards of which there are many... most Imperials seem like likable hardworking and overall respectable people. many of whom are nicer then any of the so called 'good guys" on the republic side! They are simply trying to make the best of being born into a strict society,

 

My two favorites and whom I will use as shining examples would be Major Bessiker from Balmorra and Elana Thul of Alderraanl.

 

Major Bessiker is a more blatant and obvious example due to his optimism and desire to do good, while Elana while openly Generous and eager to assist her ally is a more Subtle example. Why?

 

Well consider her families origins.

 

From what I learned about the thuls on the pub side is they are a bunch of empire puppets with an entitlement complex... who should not be in power because??? they are siding with the Empire OMG they must be evil!

 

 

 

it's worth noteing the Thul whom is going to be planted on the throne if they win, is a lord of the sith

So, what you're telling me, is that the part about the empire, i always considered the most stupid, both from ingame, and out of game, came about because George Lucas is petty?

Figures

 

You can't trash talk George Lucas when you are on a game that came about because of him...kinda dumb if you ask me....

I always felt that the Empire was more-so the "good guys" in Star Wars. I mean think of this, say that we all get together and discover that the Force is real. And half of the people think we should not let our emotions give us strength and that we should be unattached from people and objects. And you are like, "No way!" So they get together and hunt you down and openly practice genocide, killing any and all Sith/Dark Siders they get their hands on. Eventually you will be twisted into hating and fearing them until you are one of those radical Sith killing all Republic/other guys you see.

[quote=Allronix;6141558

 

1) Human High Culture.

"Die or defete me, either way the empire is reborn" Malgus wasn't kidding, many more Aliens have been accepted into military ranks and we still have the effects of the pubs locking up Boshun a Cathar who was well liked among his people who simply said " i dont think we should join you" the cathar (including our own when we can make them" will not be happy.

And lets not forget that as united the republic is species like the Kaliesh Zabarak Ratatacki and many other are far more more like and as a result more inclined to join the empire now that its lacks its Anti-alien laws.

 

2) The Empire hits hard, but can't sustain a war of attrition.

Granted we eventually lost it but Balmoria was under the Empires control for many years facing rebels and undercover Republic forces.

Another prime example is Hoth, many seem to think that Hoth was 2 massive forces fighting one another, remember the Forces on Hoth were small and the entire goal was to use a token force while the republic trowed massive resources at them and the ship graveyard.

Now granted it isnt the massive war of attrition you were on about but i still see it as prof that push come to shove they arnt just hit fast enemies.

3) Imperials are too busy fighting each other to effectively fight anyone else.

Your right on this one, cant argue with that.

 

4) For all of its faults, the Republic is a stable society and much more of a meritocracy than the Empire. In the Empire, the Sith Order answers to no one. there is no procedure for removing a Darth from office,

The Wrath and his duty is from i see as someone who watches the Dark council, if a Darth goes to far then the Wrath takes him out, Also you will find that Other dark council members can intervene, the codex for the citadel states that 2 members fraught a kagath on the old citadel and it was a draw and the rest of the council killed them.

.

 

Id also like to point out that the Sith didn't disband Intelligence, the star cabal did using their agents in the Sith.

Id also like to point out that the Sith didn't disband Intelligence, the star cabal did using their agents in the Sith.

That the Sith were manipulated into doing it isn't quite the same as doing it entirely of their own volition, yes. But unless they're massive hypocrites and I missed some key revelation, the Star Cabal had no agents on the Dark Council and consequently didn't sign the order to disband intelligence themselves.

That the Sith were manipulated into doing it isn't quite the same as doing it entirely of their own volition, yes. But unless they're massive hypocrites and I missed some key revelation, the Star Cabal had no agents on the Dark Council and consequently didn't sign the order to disband intelligence themselves.

 

yes after re watching it it seems the dark council was manipulated into doing it by other (ie minister of war and other military officials) but the message you get from hunter seems to imply that they had a hand in its dissolving.

yes after re watching it it seems the dark council was manipulated into doing it by other (ie minister of war and other military officials) but the message you get from hunter seems to imply that they had a hand in its dissolving.

Well, yeah. I wasn't trying to suggest the Star Cabal wasn't involved, but the Sith ultimately made the decision even if they were doubtless unaware that they were being used. They still wanted to disband intelligence, and had wanted to for some time according to the minister of intelligence. The Cabal just pushed at a door that was already ajar.

 

I suppose we could speculate that maybe the Sith were decieved into believing intelligence was far more inept than it really was via false information, and there's probably some truth to that. But they didn't exactly waste any time picking it apart for the resources and manpower they've long coveted to assimilate into their own power structures.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Bleeters

Well, yeah. I wasn't trying to suggest the Star Cabal wasn't involved, but the Sith ultimately made the decision even if they were doubtless unaware that they were being used. They still wanted to disband intelligence, and had wanted to for some time according to the minister of intelligence. The Cabal just pushed at a door that was already ajar.

 

I suppose we could speculate that maybe the Sith were decieved into believing intelligence was far more inept than it really was via false information, and there's probably some truth to that. But they didn't exactly waste any time picking it apart for the resources and manpower they've long coveted to assimilate into their own power structures.

 

Darth Marr explicitly did not agree with the dissolution of Imperial Intelligence (Makeb IA intro), and he seems to be taking a front seat now. This is the single biggest thing working in the Empire's favour right now:

 

The Council members who are more interested in their own plots and who will abuse Imperial resources for their personal gain are now gone.

 

Thanaton (who pitted his own & Republic troops against the SI's followers): gone.

Baras (who was plotting to usurp the role of Voice and sent mercenaries against other Imperial forces): gone.

Karrid (who was quite happy to blow up an Imperial fleet to get rid of her rival) : gone.

 

The ones who are left (Mortis, Ravage, Marr and Vowrawn of the old guard, for instance) are far more sane in how they rule an Empire. I predict that the infighting within Imperial ranks and the accompanying policy confusion will scale back a lot. And if anything will save the Empire, it's that more than any other single factor. Forget isotope-5 - it's a gimmick. How it's used makes all the difference, and the signs on that front are good.

Regarding the implausibility of a small, isolated, low-population Empire managing to take gigantic swathes of Republic territory, consider Japan and China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Japan managed to capture huge amounts of land during the war, and if neither Russia nor the United States had moved against Japan, it stood a reasonable chance of keeping it.

 

In fact, the situation seems very similar. At the beginning of the war, China was basically unprepared, and did not have large stockpiles of advanced weapons (armor, planes) nor the means to produce them. Likewise, the Republic at the start of the conflict had been at peace for an extended period of time and was not on a war footing. China was huge, to the extent that it proved impossible for Japan to assign forces to the countryside and stop Chinese guerrilla fighters. The Republic has so many planets that it's impossible for the Empire to station troops on all of them and pacify them. China adopted a strategy of attrition, having a population far in excess of that of Japan. The Republic has a much, much larger population than the Empire and will win a war of attrition. China and Japan eventually reached a stalemate. The Republic and the Empire, before the game started, also basically stalemated.

 

Of course World War II ended with a nuke, while I'm not exactly expecting the Republic to end the conflict by blowing up Droumand Kass. But if they did it would be hilarious!

 

My point is it's not that outrageous for a tiny Empire to beat the snot out of a huge country. Integrating all the territory they took into a functioning Empire? Probably impossible for Japan, even if they could have gotten a treaty...much like the Sith Empire, actually.

Edited April 29, 2013 by ShiroIchida
Typo!

Another victory for the empire was on Quesh, don't forget.

 

Even on the republic side, the guy in charge admits "We've lost Quesh". All you do is make sure that you don't lose one of the few allies you have and take down the sith running the operation in the process.

On the other hand, this planet is said to be what starts the next war, so you could argue that the victory here backfired on them.

You can't trash talk George Lucas when you are on a game that came about because of him...kinda dumb if you ask me....

Why not?

Lucas is not a perfect being with no flaws, nor is Star Wars, as he envisioned it, a perfect gem that can never be improved upon, or without blemise.

Human high Culture was always, in my opinion, a rather stupid idea, and that it only came about as an asspull to explain George Lucas being petty about some rules he was forced to follow, makes it all the more facepalm worthy.

There should be parallel story lines. If you are playing in the republic, the republic wins, otherwise, the empire wins

There should be parallel story lines. If you are playing in the republic, the republic wins, otherwise, the empire wins

 

But there has to be one canon, so that wouldn't work.

Yep. To the OP: the Emperor is "presumed dead" by the Republic. His spirit is alive and recovering. I bet he'll return in a future xpack and the Republic will have egg on its face after publicly announcing they took him out (see end of Makeb storyline).

 

W00T! My thread got necroed! Also, spoiler alert!

Anywho, yeah, I understand he may or may not come back, which I why I said "gone", not "dead"...but it sure seems like he's out of the picture for the foreseeable future, and frankly I like where the Empire's going with Darth Marr. Vitiate was the Pubs' ultimate propaganda tool.

 

As for the Atlas Shrugged comment...lolwut?

Maybe if the Sith left and tried to form some "paradise" of the "superior", only to realize they could get nothing done without their slaves and subsequently starved to death, while the slaves took over and founded an autonomous cooperative society!

 

It's definitely gonna be a series of ups and downs, but we may still see one or the other side lose this war before the end, and see a new period of rebuilding. Maybe some kind of internal rebellion in the Republic. Who knows?

Empire won makeb yay. now what to do with isotope 5.

Empire won makeb yay. now what to do with isotope 5.

 

1) Figure out how Toborro turned it into fuel and replicate without deaths

2) Build massive Droids that run on it

3) Terrorize your enemies

4) Get butt handed by some Republic hero who gets lucky and blows your stockpile of droids to kingdom come.