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Luke (post-GrandMaster) vs Revan (post-KotOR)


LordFailstrom

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There was a reason Scourge killed Meetra Surik and let Revan fail. He saw, via Force vision, that Revan was not powerful enough to win. He saw another, more powerful Jedi defeat the Emperor.

 

That's incorrect: Scourge saw many alternative endings of that encounter, and he chosed one what he liked the most!

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I pretty much feel the same way. KOTOR story made a much better job at explaining it self as story it was much better constructed and fleshed out. I realize KOTOR 2 was trying to show the greyish side of star wars, but that is a complete diferent issue, it doesnt erase that flaw at all. what i feel is kotor 2 story has the potencial to be even better if it had been much better fleshed out, given the nature of the whole theme. But as you say it built and built while it lead to something not palpate, and it ended allmost quite anticlimatic.

 

However one think that amazes me in both games are the voice acting, its sublime.

Until the ToR came out the KOTOR2 story told me how the Jedi were wiped out after the Jedi Civil War and then rebuilt by the Jedi Exile who was more then a Jedi than the ones who exiled him.

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It doesnt mean anything...

 

i disagree with that notion, the powers and their feats arent on the canon? off course they are, bottom line they mean very litle judging only by that. You are atempting to measure something that cant be measured.

What if scenarios can be everything we wish, even based on canon elements, a what if scenarion cant never be canon, or set in stone.

But i understand why it is so. The forumites need something to debate.

 

What I mean is we don't need to have canon saying who vs who and saying who would win. We use the canon of what each character has done, in terms of powers/skill and go from there. If people think Revan can take on GrandMaster Luke, even when Luke's powers and his feats FAR outclass Revan's then that is just being ridiculous.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Why all these pro lukes, i am Revan hands down. First of all, people say "oh Old Luke is a bad *** and such" and i see nothing to back it up. I don't hate Luke or anything, i just am not impressed arguments with made for him Edited by KingPutin
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Holy Necro,

 

Well at this moment Grand Master Luke is by canon the unbeatable jedi, Im also with you Revan is far one of the most exotic Jedi in the whole Star Wars Universe, but we just have to wait a bit until Disney changes this status-quo and puts Revan were he belongs right next to Vader in power, skill, knowledge.

Edited by ZahirS
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Holy Necro,

 

Well at this moment Grand Master Luke is by canon the unbeatable jedi, Im also with you Revan is far one of the most exotic Jedi in the whole Star Wars Universe, but we just have to wait a bit until Disney changes this status-quo and puts Revan were he belongs right next to Vader in power, skill, knowledge.

 

agreed

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Why all these pro lukes i am Revan hands down. First of all, people say "oh Old Luke is a bad *** and such" and i see nothing to back it up. I don't hate Luke or anything, i just am not impressed arguments made for him

 

Hate to support a necro, but I can't resist such an easy argument. :p

 

Nothing to back it up, huh? OK here's a little list.

 

Devastating power that makes Palpatine wet his pants (Black Holes)

Mass illusions without the aid of relics

Vanquished an army of Vong single-handedly

Defeated Palpatine

Mastered all seven lightsaber forms

Vast knowledge regarding the Force

Absorbed an AT-AT blast and then knocked the behemoth over with a shove

Froze Darth Caedus in place with only the slightest gesture (I say slightest because I think he may have not even gestured at all)

...there's more, but I think one last thing should be mentioned.

 

He defeated Abeloth... a Force god.

 

Impressed yet? I have yet to see Revan defeat a foe greater than Abeloth. Or I could just pull out G-canon and be done with it.

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Holy Necro,

 

Well at this moment Grand Master Luke is by canon the unbeatable jedi, Im also with you Revan is far one of the most exotic Jedi in the whole Star Wars Universe, but we just have to wait a bit until Disney changes this status-quo and puts Revan were he belongs right next to Vader in power, skill, knowledge.

 

Any Disney retcons won't make Revan more powerful. No idea where you got that idea from. It's not like any of Vader's actions will be retconned since they didn't take place post-ROTJ.

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Any Disney retcons won't make Revan more powerful. No idea where you got that idea from. It's not like any of Vader's actions will be retconned since they didn't take place post-ROTJ.

 

Not saying more powerful just like Revan was made is very similar to Vader (the chosen one) by the author of the novel

 

Luke Grand Master is actually the Mary Sue of Star Wars not Revan, and all his powers come from the EU

Edited by ZahirS
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Not saying more powerful just like Revan was made is very similar to Vader (the chosen one) by the author of the novel

 

Luke Grand Master is actually the Mary Sue of Star Wars not Revan, and all his powers come from the EU

 

Luke isn't perfect(which is what a real Mary Sue is), he just has vast power at his command.

 

Anyway I had a post, but it got deleted and I smacked myself so hard it made an echo...so if this thread is still going later i'll put up the post again but it should be quite obvious that

 

GM Luke > Revan.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Luke isn't perfect(which is what a real Mary Sue is), he just has vast power at his command.

 

Anyway I had a post, but it got deleted and I smacked myself so hard it made an echo...so if this thread is still going later i'll put up the post again but it should be quite obvious that

 

GM Luke > Revan.

 

It's tough to say "Luke is/isn't perfect" because he' s been written by at least a dozen different authors in the EU. Now, that being said, there is a definite trend towards making him the "perfect protagonist" and increasing his power levels more and more until there is no challenge left before him but to face a "force god". That's lame story writing, and even worse characterization.

 

Timothy Zahn was the only author to really portray Luke in an interesting light, where he didn't win at the end of the day because he whipped out the protagonist shield and smashed everyone with it.

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It's tough to say "Luke is/isn't perfect" because he' s been written by at least a dozen different authors in the EU. Now, that being said, there is a definite trend towards making him the "perfect protagonist" and increasing his power levels more and more until there is no challenge left before him but to face a "force god". That's lame story writing, and even worse characterization.

 

Timothy Zahn was the only author to really portray Luke in an interesting light, where he didn't win at the end of the day because he whipped out the protagonist shield and smashed everyone with it.

 

Right he isn't because he has been written so many different times by different people, just like Superman and he faces big threats too. Should there be other threats for Luke to face like Superman does, instead of just a Force God? Sure, that would be interesting...but as for now no author has really picked up on anything of the sort, so until then were stuck with what we have until then.

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Right he isn't because he has been written so many different times by different people, just like Superman and he faces big threats too. Should there be other threats for Luke to face like Superman does, instead of just a Force God? Sure, that would be interesting...but as for now no author has really picked up on anything of the sort, so until then were stuck with what we have until then.

 

Luke is a Mary Sue, because there isn't much to add to him he might challenge another Force God or even Sideous again and still win without much effort, Superman on the otherhand faces threats stronger than him and wins by Intelligence or cunning.

 

Ill repeat it again, Luke is a Mary Sue because the EU made him that way.

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Luke is a Mary Sue, because there isn't much to add to him he might challenge another Force God or even Sideous again and still win without much effort, Superman on the otherhand faces threats stronger than him and wins by Intelligence or cunning.

 

Ill repeat it again, Luke is a Mary Sue because the EU made him that way.

 

The definition of a Mary Sue, is someone who is perfect in every single way. Luke isn't perfect, he can't do everything...if he really was a Mary Sue then why did...

 

1. He lose his wife? If he was perfect, he would have been able to save her.

 

2. He lost his 1st duel with Palpatine. (Rather quickly too.)

 

3. He almost fell completely to the darkside, it took his sister to bring him back.

 

4. He couldn't stop Jacen from becoming Darth Caedus.

 

5. He killed Lumiya even after which he disarmed her, killing her in cold blood.

 

 

Having vast amount of power, doesn't make a character a Mary Sue(otherwise a good portion of fictional characters are Sue's). Luke just seems this way, because authors of the EU haven't expanded on his enemy list...his only real enemies thus far have been Palpatine(who is dead) and Abeloth.

 

The authors need to expand on his enemies, to give him challenges and the like. However due to what is now going on, that may not happen right now.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Yeah, Luke wins this, no contest. I can't wait to see how E7 portrays Luke. I don't think he's too powerful in EU, it only makes sense the son of the Chosen One is extremely powerful, but I wonder if E7 will make him a super-powerful Jedi, or just a way-above-average Jedi.
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Until the canon on this changes, if it does, Luke definitely wins, as much as I love Revan, during and post-KOTOR (well except maybe during the dreadful "Revan" novel that may more aptly/ironically appropriately be called "Scourge", although he was one of the better points). Anyway, Luke wins, for so many different reasons of raw Force power I couldn't list them all.
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Revan wouldn't have a chance against Luke, sure he's powerful but Luke's the son of Anakin freaking Skywalker. At this point Luke is pretty much unbeatable in personal combat. Revan's done some impressive things and I'm not knocking him but putting pretty much anyone up against Luke in his prime who doesn't have crazy God-like power just isn't a fair contest imo....
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The definition of a Mary Sue, is someone who is perfect in every single way. Luke isn't perfect, he can't do everything...if he really was a Mary Sue then why did...

 

1. He lose his wife? If he was perfect, he would have been able to save her.

 

Loosing his wife is not an intrisict trait, Luke still remains a demi-god regarless.

 

2. He lost his 1st duel with Palpatine. (Rather quickly too.)

 

Luke still remains a super demi-god because turning to the darkside made him even more powerful

 

3. He almost fell completely to the darkside, it took his sister to bring him back

 

Which after returning to the lightside obtained a unique power: Eletric Judgement or Lighting Storm

4. He couldn't stop Jacen from becoming Darth Caedus.

 

Luke still remains a demi-god that only needs to gesture to freeze Caedus

5. He killed Lumiya even after which he disarmed her, killing her in cold blood.

 

A flaw, Luke is portrayed as the "idealized Jedi"

 

Having vast amount of power, doesn't make a character a Mary Sue(otherwise a good portion of fictional characters are Sue's). Luke just seems this way, because authors of the EU haven't expanded on his enemy list...his only real enemies thus far have been Palpatine(who is dead) and Abeloth.

 

The authors need to expand on his enemies, to give him challenges and the like. However due to what is now going on, that may not happen right now.

 

Agree they should expand on their enemies but also tune down Luke, those "Majestic powers" just make him unrealistic in the way they protray him in the EU, he just goes further and make him more powerful

 

The difference with other superpowered beigns its that usually they are don't invent more powers to make them more superpowered, has to do with realism even Superman has beaten tougher foes but not in raw power but using his abilities in the more efficient way to do it, Luke just pops new powers to defeat opponents (thats Mary Sue)

 

He might not be a Mary Sue by definition but he is darn close.

Edited by ZahirS
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Loosing his wife is not an intrisict trait, Luke still remains a demi-god regarless.

 

 

 

Luke still remains a super demi-god because turning to the darkside made him even more powerful

 

 

 

Which after returning to the lightside obtained a unique power: Eletric Judgement or Lighting Storm

 

 

Luke still remains a demi-god that only needs to gesture to freeze Caedus

 

 

A flaw, Luke is portrayed as the "idealized Jedi"

 

 

 

Agree they should expand on their enemies but also tune down Luke, those "Majestic powers" just make him unrealistic in the way they protray him in the EU, he just goes further and make him more powerful

 

The difference with other superpowered beigns its that usually they are don't invent more powers to make them more superpowered, has to do with realism even Superman has beaten tougher foes but not in raw power but using his abilities in the more efficient way to do it, Luke just pops new powers to defeat opponents (thats Mary Sue)

 

He might not be a Mary Sue by definition but he is darn close.

 

Ok then, so there we go....however most of Luke's power is really just the normal ones only to greatly high levels. The only ones he really learned or got was Electric Judgement(however this is just speculated from what I am reading here...but w/e) and Fold Space. The others are just ones that he has used before he became Grand Master, hell even before he became just a Jedi Master.

 

It isn't also like he wasn't taught things, or studied. He did also learn from Palpatine too.

 

However I think now, they are done expanding on Luke so now they just need to give him some enemies to work with.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Agree with you wolf, definetly Luke EU needs some work.

 

I also think GM luke >Revan by large gap.

 

Im just trying to say basically what Drew K said about Revan, I also think GM luke>Vader by large gap. Just saying Revan should be there along with Vader as the top force users of all time.

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Agree with you wolf, definetly Luke EU needs some work.

 

I also think GM luke >Revan by large gap.

 

Im just trying to say basically what Drew K said about Revan, I also think GM luke>Vader by large gap. Just saying Revan should be there along with Vader as the top force users of all time.

 

Author statements usually aren't good for determining a character, especially if said Author created said character. You can check by what Revan has done, and compare the statement, Revan is still pretty vague and his feats(aside from that one instance against Vitiate, which that feat doesn't happen reguarly) as far as combat goes are small in showing compared to Vader who has tons of showings in what he is capable of and such. He still has no defined lightsaber style, which...you'd think by now they would address that.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Author statements usually aren't good for determining a character, especially if said Author created said character. You can check by what Revan has done, and compare the statement, Revan is still pretty vague and his feats(aside from that one instance against Vitiate, which that feat doesn't happen reguarly) as far as combat goes are small in showing compared to Vader who has tons of showings in what he is capable of and such. He still has no defined lightsaber style, which...you'd think by now they would address that.

 

But mostly his career in story terms is well defined, even if his lightsaber style isn't described in detail.

 

He was a Conqueror, Savior, Hero, he learned from both sides of the force, his story is similar to Vader in many ways, his lightsaber style is probably offensive just like Vader, I know there isn't much information on him from his author but still his feats are almost those done by Vader (Jedi purge, Conqueror, single handly defeated many jedi and sith, etc)

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Luke Skywalker is the Superman of Star Wars. He is as powerful as he needs to be to win when he needs to in the story. That's all. There was no point to this match since Lucas outright stated that Luke is "The most Powerful Jedi Ever".
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