so I hear pvp is supposed to be 100 % balanced for one on one combat between any and all classes, but still somehow manage to keep classes different and distinct?

/sarcasm.

I don't know, I always felt that pvp should be like rock, paper, scissors. some classes are stronger against one class, weaker against the other. from my experience with TOR pvp - it roughly works out that way.

why? because you are not supposed to be a solo maverik, you are supposed to be playing as a team. and people in TOR actually playing as a team? are a beautiful thing to behold. including when you are playing against them.

Actually there are going to be full sieges, with resource management being crucial, the main prize is the control of the Imperial City, the most powerful guild leader in control will become the Emperor/Empress, I won't bother linking as all you need is a youtube search.

You gonna be playing ESO too Rayla? Or were you just looking around and happen to come upon the game?

I love how to some people "OP" is defined as "capable of yielding 5% more damage over time". And then I look at a warzone recap and see that the high damage players are turning in damage numbers that are 200-400% higher than the low-damage (non healer, non tank) players.

Once you learn a little math, the conclusion is simple: Minor differences in raw damage output are vastly eclipsed by other factors including player skill, strategic utility, and situational tactics. But really: Player skill should cover the latter two, anyway.

People whined about the lolsmash Warrior/Knights. Yeah, they hit hard, and my Sniper loved to tear them apart. It doesn't matter if they can hit for 6k at 7m when you can pump 15k of damage into them before they even get a chance to fire it off. Even better: two players with a minor amount of coordination rip them apart. Pin/root them and bounce them about. They die without any problems.

So now you think Snipers are OP. Well, they're bursty, always have been, and the roll doesn't really change that all that much. Of course, when we're not talking about a 1-on-1 deathmatch for no strategic advantage, then they might be worrisome. In an actual Warzone, Snipers are only really useful when they have someplace stable to set up and get to work. If your team can keep the battle moving about and chaotic (especially by sending out Shadows/Assassins) then Snipers are going to have much more trouble.

What about Shadow/Assassins? They can Maul/Shadow Strike for 7k, and fire off 3-5 in a very short period of time. Are they OP, too? Or Operative/Scoundrels? They've got quite the annoying cluster of stuns. Mix that with some heavy burst/DoT abilities and they're pretty OP, too.

Turns out... pretty much every DPS build is OP in PvP. Which means none of them are. Again: Everyone has some hard hitting abilities. None of them are strong enough to make up for low skilled players. Even in the midst of the lolsmash madness, smashers were getting ripped apart by skilled opponents all the time. Most of the complaints were coming from people who were facing some sort of mild mismatch (due to situation or character ability) and failed to use the proper strategy or tactics to mitigate that. Some might sum that up as: "L2P". I'm not that lame. I'll just say that you need to put more thought into your PvP.

TL;DR: Skill > Tactics > Strategy > Random Chance > "OP" Damage deficit

You gonna be playing ESO too Rayla? Or were you just looking around and happen to come upon the game?

Probably, if it's half as good as a proper Elder Scrolls title.

all of you who work at bioware and are currently "improving" SWTOR's experience by giving us new cartel items THAT WE HAVE TO PAY FOR are terrible, most likely this thread wont be read by any dev but seriously bioware you cannot balance anything, each time you make 1 class OP as hell, first it was known as focus/rage/smash spec that was SERIOUSLY OP, then 2.0 came and then began the Grav round/Tracer missle spam fest, "oh i know guys lets make GR and TM hit for 6-10k and spammable then lets give them the ability to be immune to interrupts" ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME BIOWARE you didnt think of the consequences at all. same happened to Focus/Rage/ Smash spec, lets buff the AOE spec so it can hit 6-9k (pre 2.0) and that can be done to 5 people. yep bioware thats a good idea, a team wont ever think to take 4 of them. then you gave the most OP ranged class - Sniper/gunslingers the ability to not die, firstly they have their original stuns, now they have a roll and each they go into cover they get an immunity, so they still hit the highest and now other classes cant hit them, yep thats smart. and now AOE specs are the way to go with a sent or mara, single target cant hit high enough, so every Warzone is full of Derp smash and grav/tracer spam.

 

Im only posting this in hope you guys actually realize your just killing your own game, APAC is now dead with no news of server transfers, you balanced and continue to balance your classes terribly. i suggest you actually listen to your community rather than your stupid game designers from now on, they play the game not you guys if you guys want a Story fulled fun time go play something else, and let us TOR fans love star wars not hate it because of you

Apparently from the customer perspective, this is true of every game developer. Every MMO I've ever played from DOAC, EQ, WoW and several others, this is always a complaint from the playerbase. I'm not really sure what they can do to address it since its purely a subjective view of individuals and they will NEVER all be pleased.

Apparently from the customer perspective, this is true of every game developer. Every MMO I've ever played from DOAC, EQ, WoW and several others, this is always a complaint from the playerbase. I'm not really sure what they can do to address it since its purely a subjective view of individuals and they will NEVER all be pleased.

Sure. To most PvPers (IMO) the definition of an OP class is "Any class I do not play" and the definition of nerf is "Any change made to a class I play."

Turns out... pretty much every DPS build is OP in PvP. Which means none of them are. Again: Everyone has some hard hitting abilities. None of them are strong enough to make up for low skilled players. Even in the midst of the lolsmash madness, smashers were getting ripped apart by skilled opponents all the time. Most of the complaints were coming from people who were facing some sort of mild mismatch (due to situation or character ability) and failed to use the proper strategy or tactics to mitigate that. Some might sum that up as: "L2P". I'm not that lame. I'll just say that you need to put more thought into your PvP.

 

TL;DR: Skill > Tactics > Strategy > Random Chance > "OP" Damage deficit

This whole post is... my thoughts, exactly.

Sure. To most PvPers (IMO) the definition of an OP class is "Any class I do not play" and the definition of nerf is "Any change made to a class I play."

Precisely. There's no "fixing" this.

all of you who work at bioware and are currently "improving" SWTOR's experience by giving us new cartel items THAT WE HAVE TO PAY FOR are terrible, most likely this thread wont be read by any dev but seriously bioware you cannot balance anything, each time you make 1 class OP as hell, first it was known as focus/rage/smash spec that was SERIOUSLY OP, then 2.0 came and then began the Grav round/Tracer missle spam fest, "oh i know guys lets make GR and TM hit for 6-10k and spammable then lets give them the ability to be immune to interrupts" ARE YOU FRICKING KIDDING ME BIOWARE you didnt think of the consequences at all. same happened to Focus/Rage/ Smash spec, lets buff the AOE spec so it can hit 6-9k (pre 2.0) and that can be done to 5 people. yep bioware thats a good idea, a team wont ever think to take 4 of them. then you gave the most OP ranged class - Sniper/gunslingers the ability to not die, firstly they have their original stuns, now they have a roll and each they go into cover they get an immunity, so they still hit the highest and now other classes cant hit them, yep thats smart. and now AOE specs are the way to go with a sent or mara, single target cant hit high enough, so every Warzone is full of Derp smash and grav/tracer spam.

 

Im only posting this in hope you guys actually realize your just killing your own game, APAC is now dead with no news of server transfers, you balanced and continue to balance your classes terribly. i suggest you actually listen to your community rather than your stupid game designers from now on, they play the game not you guys if you guys want a Story fulled fun time go play something else, and let us TOR fans love star wars not hate it because of you

game is beautiful ... pvp is balanced ... its l2p issue ... stop being so angry, enjoy it or leave, easy fixed ...

Actually there are going to be full sieges, with resource management being crucial, the main prize is the control of the Imperial City, the most powerful guild leader in control will become the Emperor/Empress, I won't bother linking as all you need is a youtube search.

It's on Youtube? Hmm...might check that out.

Probably, if it's half as good as a proper Elder Scrolls title.

Yay! I will too, or at least try the trial out 1st anyway. Love the TES games, and it looks to be shaping up nicely...if nothing else i'll play it just to be an Argonian.

The only way we can have truly balanced PVP is to REMOVE IT ALL ENTIRELY.

 

MMO PVP is a terrible concept that will never work. Best to scrap it and leave PVP to FPS.

This is why I don't PvP. PvPers be crazy.

I especially like how they complain about everything, yet offer little to no suggestions on how things could be "balanced".

There is NO SUCH THING as balanced PvP in an MMO. Its a pipe-dream.

Sure. To most PvPers (IMO) the definition of an OP class is "Any class I do not play" and the definition of nerf is "Any change made to a class I play."

QFT. That's the biggest reason that no MMO PvP can or will be balanced. Rock/Paper/Scissors is probably the closest we'll ever get, but that will never satisfy PvP players. best to leave PvP to the FPS...or use some isolated system where PvP doesn't' impact PvE design. closest I've seen there is LotRO's PvMP system (which still has it's own issues), but is world closer then any other I've seen.

This is why I don't PvP. PvPers be crazy.

 

I especially like how they complain about everything, yet offer little to no suggestions on how things could be "balanced".

 

There is NO SUCH THING as balanced PvP in an MMO. Its a pipe-dream.

That's because a PVPer's definition of "balance" is "I win, you lose, deal with it."

The only balance system I have ever enjoyed in ANY game is the rock, paper, scissors approach. I like things to be UNBALANCED, with one class I will always have a advantage over, one class that will always be slightly superior to me and even to other classes.

In other words, every class has a bane and a boon class.

The reason this is so much fun for me is that it is very satisfying to beat my bane class. That is my goal in this system...find some way to get good enough to defeat a class that is superior to my own.

So I would prefer imbalance. Glaring weaknesses in each class that can be exploited.

interesting, i never saw some merc who hit 9k without heat seeker missle which has a cd. also they didnt have any ability to get immune to interrupts. are you even playing the game or just qqing?

He's problaly crying so hard, that he didn't realize that commandoes were sh*t from 1.2 and on, because people actually know how to deal with them.

Or wait, we're uninterruptable

(OP, ever heard of an AC named sorc/sage?)