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High Guildship cost = No new guilds?


Kuruus

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Nah, it won't translate into no new guilds. New guilds will have a more tangible thing to work towards. And raising 50 mil is not an insurmountable task. In fact, it can be pretty easy even for smaller guilds as long as they are diligent.

 

But... they have to work for it. And they have to be organized about it. And... it won't happen overnight. However, giving a guild a goal can be a great thing starting out. It can be something that galvanizes and brings a guild together if you have good leadership.

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If they are useable for my private strongholds, then I would leave with all my alts smaller guilds in which they are to join large guilds to get those as soon as possible. I think this will hurt smaller guild in general a lot, regardless how minor the bonuses will be.

 

The nodes put a 4-hour debuff on the player that keeps them from harvesting another stronghold node. Interestingly(didn't test it yet), it would appear you can gather a resource without having the requisite skill.

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Know what I normally like to troll the forums however I want to bring a few things up.

 

Really you guys are upset over 50 million? Think that's really bad? Lets go over some other MMO's. Age Of Conan, know how long it takes to get a Tier 3 Guild City? Or better yet the shear amount of work that go's into it? Let me sum it up, in AoC guild cities have a number of mats that need to be put into them. Now the Tier 1 and 2? Not so bad. Tier 3? It's not fun, more so hunting down mats is one of the most mind numbing things in AoC. Walk up to a node, click on it, maybe you get the mat or you get some 'rare' mat that just kills the node. More then likely you get jumped on by NPC miners, bandits, Pict's, and Bears.

 

Star Trek Online, really go talk to anyone who plays STO and ask about getting a Tier 5 Starbase going. And by the way before you jump up and down smaller guilds even Role Play guilds are able to get up to Tier 5. Or Tier 3 with the other buildings and the like. And by the way the Starbase and other buildings are how you get some of the better ground and space gear. More so it's how you get Fleet Ships that are better then the normal and C-Store ships.

 

And those are just the two I know and guess what? Well in the case of AoC we're looking at a game that has gone downhill from day one. In STO's case? Like I said smaller Fleet's (aka guilds) have been able to get those T5 Starbases going. My Fleet a RP Fleet has ours at T4 and are just a month or two away from hitting T5. Our Klingon guild has it at T3 right now.

 

What I'm trying to point out is this, if you want something in an MMO *gasp* you need to work for it. Other games have done it and sometimes they don't work out like AoC. Other times like STO? It gives the guild (Fleet in STO's case) something long term to work for and build up.

 

And I also want to point out that in the case with STO? New fleets are popping up all the time in STO. Just a couple of months ago a friend of mine started up a new Fleet after leaving his old Fleet on good terms. That Fleet he left had that big Tier 5 Starbase, more so then that? His old Fleet is also giving a bit of a helping hand with getting his Starbase up.

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Know what I normally like to troll the forums however I want to bring a few things up.

 

Really you guys are upset over 50 million? Think that's really bad? Lets go over some other MMO's.

 

Age Of Conan, know how long it takes to get a Tier 3 Guild City?

Star Trek Online, really go talk to anyone who plays STO and ask about getting a Tier 5 Starbase going. .

.

 

to be fair we are talking about a 50 mil buy in cost, max capital ship is rumored to be 120 mil + expensive mats + plans + drops from rare spawn world bosses, getting a max ship with buffs unlocked will not be a easy task

 

but 50 mill just to drop to enter content is a hefty price in real world gaming, some guilds are honest and helpful some are not, some are rich and some are not, some have a lot of players some don't. 1 - 5 mill dropped on basically a GM toy that we may lose or never see a benefit from is nothing small, its not impossible but its reasonable to question. especially with guild drama and people not contributing or unhappy about the planet choice when they donated more then the next guy.

 

if the buy in was low this would be less of a problem and if it was progression through content then the person would just have wasted their time not their credits, I am way more willing to spen 4 hours with a crappy pug and walk away with nothing then just pissing away my credits for nothing

 

the real question is what is biowares intent for these, is the base ship comparable to SM, 1st tier ranked, HM, top teir ranked [5%] or NIM [1%], if its HM its fine if its SM its too high if its NIM its not high enough.

 

I think a lot of people believe the initial buy in cost should be achievable for all guilds like SM and not HM where you will have to be organized and semi "hardcore" [i hate those terms] to do the content, just talking about the buy in cost here. the conquest content sounds more HM / top guilds on the server. I don't think anyone really wants this to be 1% only.

 

again this is all rumored info :D it is in no way a reference to info in another forum with a awesome user we are forever grateful for

Edited by Vis-Tecum
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to be fair we are talking about a 50 mil buy in cost, max capital ship is rumored to be 120 mil + expensive mats + plans + drops from rare spawn world bosses, getting a max ship with buffs unlocked will not be a easy task

It's not supposed to be an easy task, is it?

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Unlocking everything needs more than just credits, it's participation in conquest events granting blueprints and materials somehow I think.

 

To return to the original question, I think the conquest events/guild ship draw may end up being just as niche as other forms of endgame. It won't be for everyone.

 

Especially if the conquest events aren't simultaneous giving a bunch of guilds a shot of dominating one of pretty much all the existing planets but on a rotating schedule like the events we have now. If the latter is the case and the entire conquest playing swarm migrates from planet to planet each week, once a couple big builds start dominating through numbers and dedication, I think the necessity of having a guild ship and sinking in vast amounts of mats and credits for something they'll never really have a realistic shot of achieving will go way down the "must do" list for a large majority.

Edited by aeterno
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I fear that this game update will see the death of several guilds.

 

People will we drawn towards larger guilds because it will be easier to participate in this new content. Large guilds will get larger thus even more appealing, small guilds will get smaller thus even less appealing to the point where they just disappear.

 

I am not sure this is a good thing and I am really worried about the future of this game. The horrible credit sink TOR is turning into and killing communities is the best way to turn people away from your game.

Edited by demotivator
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It's not supposed to be an easy task, is it?

 

if you read that post the person I quoted was comparing the 50 mill buy in cost to other games top tier costs and saying that the 50 mil is nothing, that's why I clarified that the 50 mil is buy in, the maxed out ship has a comparably difficult progression track that the games he mentioned have. and informing him that a maxed ship is NOT 50 mil and will be a difficult task

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I fear that this game update will see the death of several guilds.

 

People will we drawn towards larger guilds because it will be easier to participate in this new content. Large guilds will get larger, small guilds will get smaller to the point where they just disappear.

 

I am not sure this is a good thing and I am really worried about the future of this game. The horrible credit sink TOR is turning into and killing communities is the best way to turn people away from your game.

 

I am hoping that the conquest events will not be determined by numbers but dedication.

 

I mean that whaever points will determine who is first in the leaderboards will come from quality of doing it not the quantity...

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I don't know... guild members will have to work for it. 50 million credits for 5 or more people isn't really that difficult. I can easily earn 10 million in a couple weeks doing nothing but killing stuff and dailies while only playing a couple hours a day. It doesn't have to be instant gratification. Yes it is a credit sink, but with the easy of credits in the game we need something to spend them on.

 

Again for people who are level 55, let me fix that for you. New guilds dont start always with level 55, start with lower level, I have one of my characters in a new guild and we have 260 members and only 2 level 55, bank total less than 1 mill.

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Again for people who are level 55, let me fix that for you. New guilds dont start always with level 55, start with lower level, I have one of my characters in a new guild and we have 260 members and only 2 level 55, bank total less than 1 mill.

 

Shouldn't that be a kind of motivation? To level up? To save up credits?

 

If people you play with are not motivated enough they are not worth the effort.

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I am hoping that the conquest events will not be determined by numbers but dedication.

 

I mean that whaever points will determine who is first in the leaderboards will come from quality of doing it not the quantity...

 

And how do you propose quality of something is determined lol? If doing stuff nets conquest points more people doing stuff = more points. Fact you feel you win your warzone/star-fighter matches with more style than the 3 members of that 100 member guild can't be reasonably quantifiable.

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The stuff that I can guarantee we will see with this update:

 

  • Numerous threads complaining about scamming. (IE, I had to pay X amount to join and then I was kicked).
  • Numerous threads complaining about being kicked from a guild that the OP contributed a great deal to without any sort of recompense. (IE, 'I spent so much time and effort for this guild and now I have nothing to show for it.')
  • Numerous threads about guild leaders/officers/whoever can control the conquest stuff ignoring members, exerting 'unethical' control. (IE, 'I had to give up that drop, even though I won the role or Id get kicked')
  • Numerous threads large guilds growing larger (already established, easier guild ship, more members for this conquest system) while smaller guilds stagnate and shrink.
  • Numerous threads about how impossible it is to start a new guild. (IE, prospective members find out you are new, dont have a ship, and either refuse to join or leave immediately).
  • Depending on exactly how the conquest system works, and what in entails, numerous threads about a small handful of guilds controlling everything with no hope of competition (this will be especially prevalent on smaller servers).
  • Plus all of the server side drama the above will cause.

 

People are people. And this is how they behave. Participation in the conquest system is going to be advantageous, somehow. That right there is enough to ensure a ton of drama.

Edited by Dras_Keto
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And how do you propose quality of something is determined lol? If doing stuff nets conquest points more people doing stuff = more points. Fact you feel you win your warzone/star-fighter matches with more style than the 3 members of that 100 member guild can't be reasonably quantifiable.

 

I have a table at the end of a match saying I did more damage/heals or have more objective points...

 

That is quality over quantity.

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I have a table at the end of a match saying I did more damage/heals or have more objective points...

 

That is quality over quantity.

 

No, that is quality over lesser quality. Assuming you are actually a better than average pvper.

 

It doesnt matter how good you are, if youre in a warzone 2 versus 8, you are going to lose. Period. End of story.

 

An MMO, and indeed any game out there, is always going to favour higher numbers. Its hard coded into the system. This isnt some Japanese anime where you can beat impossible odds just by being overly emotional.

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No, that is quality over lesser quality. Assuming you are actually a better than average pvper.

 

It doesnt matter how good you are, if youre in a warzone 2 versus 8, you are going to lose. Period. End of story.

 

An MMO, and indeed any game out there, is always going to favour higher numbers. Its hard coded into the system. This isnt some Japanese anime where you can beat impossible odds just by being overly emotional.

 

If 4 can win a match against 8 than 40 should be competitive against 80, I see no reason why a guild should insta-win a conquest just because they have 100 members that, say, know nothing about what they are doing while a 20-person pvp guild (considering the whole conquest event is going to be pvp based? I have no idea how it will work honestly) has no chances whatsoever.

 

Or why the said 100-man guild should be rewared for just having sheer numbers over a 10-man guild doing progression raiding?

 

I always thought playing an MMO is to make friends and play along with them... not be satisfied to be a nameless player in a nameless guild - because face it, you won't know half the people you play with if you have over 50 members. :confused:

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If 4 can win a match against 8 than 40 should be competitive against 80, I see no reason why a guild should insta-win a conquest just because they have 100 members that, say, know nothing about what they are doing while a 20-person pvp guild (considering the whole conquest event is going to be pvp based? I have no idea how it will work honestly) has no chances whatsoever.

 

Or why the said 100-man guild should be rewared for just having sheer numbers over a 10-man guild doing progression raiding?

 

I always thought playing an MMO is to make friends and play along with them... not be satisfied to be a nameless player in a nameless guild - because face it, you won't know half the people you play with if you have over 50 members. :confused:

 

They have already expressly stated that the conquest system has nothing to do with pvp.

 

If you have been on the PTS, you would probably have eventually noticed the crafting trainers have new recipes for each profession that are listed as conquest supplies.

 

Basically, its almost a forgone conclusion that the conquest competition is going to be whatever guild drums up the most supplies and other crap, because, lets face it, anything that makes the game more grindy is probably something that bioware is going to put in there. Plus, this expansion is supposed to be glorifying crafting somehow (legacy "storage" thats only useful for storing crafting mats, but is kinda useless for that anyway).

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I have a table at the end of a match saying I did more damage/heals or have more objective points...

 

That is quality over quantity.

If you're referring to the tables at the end of a laughable excuse for PvP, they do not show many things which contribute to victory or even defeat. They're basically pointless unless you're looking to stroke some e-peen.

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If you're referring to the tables at the end of a laughable excuse for PvP, they do not show many things which contribute to victory or even defeat. They're basically pointless unless you're looking to stroke some e-peen.

 

I wouldnt say they are useless, but their importance is almost always exaggerated by people when they get higher numbers and downplayed when they end up with lower ones.

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Unless they're obscenely overpowered buffs, Guild Ships won't have much impact on PVP or PVE. And I highly doubt that they'll be all that powerful.

 

Guild ships are likely to be mostly cosmetic and bragging rights and I'm suspecting that's what Conquest will be, too.

 

and all the playable content of an entire release will be gated behind them...Large guilds will get them too easy and wont value them..small or new guilds wont bother.

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OMG! You are right!

 

And new players in the game won't be able to buy Dewback Mounts off the GTN within their first week of play either!

They might as well not play the game!

 

 

*Sigh*

 

New guilds will have to do what new guilds always do... they'll have to work on growing bigger and better.

 

And the ships ARE optional. The buffs only estend to ONE planet at a time... and you'll have to "conquer" that planet before that even happens.

 

the ship is not optional..it is required to play the content. dewback mounts are just cosmetic...guild ship is a content gate. big difference.

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Well, youre still wrong. Theres a lot more information in those scoreboards than youre claiming, although, a lot of it requires a deeper knowledge of pvp, an ability to read between the lines, and for you to have paid attention to whats going on during the match. That said, most people misinterpret or use the scoreboard to flat out lie. It also cannot track things like positioning, or pulls (which you mentioned), or differentiate between active combat DPS and damage/match time. In short, yes, it has flaws and shortcomings, but there is still a wealth of information there if you open your eyes to see it.

 

All of this however is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is: large/established guilds are going to have a huge advantage in conquests. How insurmountable that advantage is remains to be seen.

Edited by Dras_Keto
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