Im glad I ran across this thread because I thought I was taking crazy pills. I have been back 4 days and am seeing the exact same type of behaviour. Running into boss fights at low health, No one recupping between fights, no CC, running ahead, etc etc. I have had to leave groups or go crazy. One dps went into a fight at 10% health, died and then yelled at me for not healing him. For those of you that can speed run,thats great, but your not going to stress me out doing it. If you go in at low health and die please shut your ball washers and dont put it on the healer. Stupid player is stupid. Edited November 25, 2012 by Brundhila

i think everyone forgets why the groupfinder gives daily BH comms in the first place. Its not because you deserve BH gear for doing tier 2 endgame content. It's because they wanted to keep the groupfinder populating and giving everyone a small amount of BH comms to do it would incentivise people who are long past needing columni or tionese gear to help out the new 50s and make it so they dont have to wait an hour to group.

 

I read this and the other thread on this forum(the one that focuses on skipping bosses) and I get this idea, that people who are well geared and are only there for the comms, which is great btw, have put this attitude in their heads that a new 50(with recruit gear or oranges filled with daily mods, welfare crafted epics etc) are somehow ruining their expeirence. Im all for speedruns when everyone's well geared(like my level 50 sorc healer). But when someone isnt well geared and actually is there not just for comms but for the columni gear, don't chain pull.

 

I mean one way or another don't waste time. If you've played the flashpoint before, dont hesitate to skip cutscenes(dont spam SKIP either like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum if others decide not to) If you can skip a group of trash do it. Its not terrible to skip bonus bosses either(there are a few that drop good gear, but most can be skipped without losing anything you cant live without) , but if someone wants to do it, build the community and just do the bossfight.

 

TLDR. Speedrunning's cool if everyone's ok with it and geared to actually do so. Otherwise just play the freaking flash point. .If you absolutely insist on doing speedruns every time, get a group of 3 well geared peeps together and then press the queue button. And also if you want to speed run, make sure you let ppl know at the beginning of the flashpoint, and not act like a dick when you find they are not skipping.

I have a lot of experience playing in WoW (more than 3 years), on russian server. I have tried all of the roles in the game. But now, with the renewal subscription SWTOR, and began to play a healer, I encountered a very strange behavior of the vast majority of players. For example: almost no one recovers his health, and resources, after the battle meditation, and other abilities. All, just immediately run to the next mob puck without looking at their own health.

In WoW, it is difficult to find a tank that it attacked the new pack of strong mobs with 50% health. In SVTOR is this a common thing. In WoW, a few more can be found of the tank, which will start the fight when healer out of mana, or the doctor is not there. In SVTOR it constantly. The fact that people have to help the tank, and beat his goal, I did not even mention.

What is this? I just had bad luck with groups? Or is it not a basic understanding of MMO game players? Or simply a cultural feature of english game worlds?

Please do not tell me to go back to WoW. I like it a lot SWTOR despite the large number of drawbacks. I just wanted to find out why.

Sorry for my bad English.

 

English is fine and, hopefully nobody tells you to get lose (would be complete dick move by them to do so) but there's two reasons why you're seeing this.

 

-Tank may be used to operative healers. Operative healers don't need the tank to stop between groups to get him back to full health. As long as he doesn't get down to, like, 10% health, the tank can just run from group to group and remain at full health.

 

and the biggie

 

-Group finder reward. The flashpoints reward tionese and columi gear. Group finder rewards tokens for black hole gear. Result of this is the groups you're getting in with may be WELL overgeared for the flashpoints and just want enough comms to buy something and reverse engineer everything for molecular stabilizers, then ship those off to crafters to get dread guard equivalent mods. So in their case, everything except the flashpoint's last conversation or boss is just an obstacle to their goal.

 

Also, consider that some people might just be morons. Was in a black talon run today where some ******* assassin tank sapped an enemy and complained that the mob got pulled. There was a droid in the mob and the tank's the one who pulled him.

 

Edit: one more thing. The problem the OP is having is a recent-ish development, or, at least, it's gotten worse. Was in a group with a resubscriber tank from a february. Totally competent, but didn't do ANY of the stuff TC's talking about.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

but there's two reasons why you're seeing this.

I will add a third. Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors have the opposite game mechanic for energy/force that the rest of the classes have. While my smuggler builds up energy while waiting for a few seconds between fights, my Sentinel is losing it. My main is a smuggler healer, I have hated Sentinels in HMFP, it has nothing to do with them not healing between fights, everything to do with them leaping out of my range towards a elite instead of attacking the three weaks tearing me apart as I was casting a big heal on them. Sawbones are slow and even slower when 3 weaks are beating/shooting her in the back while she runs into range of the Sentinel. Get there and him and his Guardian buddy leap to the next pack leaving me now to deal with 6 weaks and still need to get a heal on him. I don’t mind chain pulls, but if you are chain pulling and not healing, then at least do your job and kill the weaks. Don’t make the healer do their job and yours too.

 

Still don’t understand the need to only kill elites, but I do understand the chain pulling now as I am just as guilty of it as anyone else that plays a Sentinel. It is a total blast clearing an entire area in a few seconds. I do however still understand the healers perspective and I kill stuff in the right order to keep it off the healer. I also watch the healers health bar so that I can leap back to whatever is attacking the healer should dps miss something. I will also self heal and use defensive cooldowns and even stop and wait when the healer isn’t completely overgeared.

 

I will also say something about CC’s. I have gotten yelled at before for breaking CC’s in a HMFP. Weaks are one, at most two hits on my Shadow. If you CC a weak I will kill it last in that area, but I will kill it before I force speed across the room. I am not going across the room and kill that stuff and then come back for one weak. CC elites if you want, but don’t bother with weaks or strongs when the group is completely overgeared or don’t yell at someone when they break it with a one hit force breech.

Edited November 26, 2012 by mikebevo

I will add a third. Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors have the opposite game mechanic for energy/force that the rest of the classes have. While my smuggler builds up energy while waiting for a few seconds between fights, my Sentinel is losing it. My main is a smuggler healer, I have hated Sentinels in HMFP, it has nothing to do with them not healing between fights, everything to do with them leaping out of my range towards a elite instead of attacking the three weaks tearing me apart as I was casting a big heal on them. Sawbones are slow and even slower when 3 weaks are beating/shooting her in the back while she runs into range of the Sentinel. Get there and him and his Guardian buddy leap to the next pack leaving me now to deal with 6 weaks and still need to get a heal on him. I don’t mind chain pulls, but if you are chain pulling and not healing, then at least do your job and kill the weaks. Don’t make the healer do their job and yours too.

 

Still don’t understand the need to only kill elites, but I do understand the chain pulling now as I am just as guilty of it as anyone else that plays a Sentinel. It is a total blast clearing an entire area in a few seconds. I do however still understand the healers perspective and I kill stuff in the right order to keep it off the healer. I also watch the healers health bar so that I can leap back to whatever is attacking the healer should dps miss something. I will also self heal and use defensive cooldowns and even stop and wait when the healer isn’t completely overgeared.

 

I will also say something about CC’s. I have gotten yelled at before for breaking CC’s in a HMFP. Weaks are one, at most two hits on my Shadow. If you CC a weak I will kill it last in that area, but I will kill it before I force speed across the room. I am not going across the room and kill that stuff and then come back for one weak. CC elites if you want, but don’t bother with weaks or strongs when the group is completely overgeared or don’t yell at someone when they break it with a one hit force breech.

 

Good point about resource re and degeneration.

 

On the second point, there's not any mystery there, the tanks you're talking about are just bad. Any tank that relies exclusively on "pull" aggo is bad. Healer will overtake that in seconds. Only reason to rely on pull aggro is if he knows the DPS will drop the weaks before they aggro the healer (which he should be able to figure out after the first or second pull). If that doesn't happen, he needs to adjust immediately. If a mob aggros a dps, that might be the DPSes fault. If it aggros a healer, it's the tank's fault.

Not going to say the tanks are bad. If a tank keep the strong and elites off of the healer then, to me they have done their job. Not all the tanks have the same abilities. I also know I don’t make it easy for many tanks in HMFP because I completely out gear them both on my healer and my shadow. I also use my strongest attacks at the start and then will use my dumb aggro after competing my first rotation or a few seconds later depending on my energy since the only aggro dumb a shadow has also is very big in energy management.

 

This is my first MMO, but I have been playing it over a year now, I was taught the weaks were DPS responsibility. Weak, Strong, Elite and last boss, and I live and die by that order on DPS. HMFP have a few mob areas that no matter who the tank is, the healer gets shot. There is one place on the False Emperor where I rocket boost/stealth ahead of the group so that I can CC one weak that DPS and the Tank always ignore. Now I either stealth CC or if they pull first, kill it before I heal. Not that big a deal, but it will shoot the healer in the back the entire fight unless I take care of it first. Same thing in the first room on CtS. There is a strong behind the bar that never gets taunted by the tank or hit by DPS, so if we have enough CC’s I will CC him or stealth in behind him and use shoot first, dirty kick, sucker punch and pistol whip if needed before hitting anyone with a heal. However, I don’t blame the tank if he is keeping the elites busy and I don’t blame DPS if they are killing the weaks. Now if they are all on the elites and I am still getting shot by the weaks, I will not be happy. On guild runs this is par for the course. They pretty much expect me to deal with the weaks and strongs, but they are managing their own HP as they know how to use defensive cooldowns, know how to cleanse and know how to get out of AOEs. Plus they know I love using dirty kick and sucker punch.

 

Not sure of the other healers, but new operatives and sawbones Flash Bang, Flash Grenade is your best friend when everything is shooting you at once. Throw that and then use orbital strike/flyby.

Not going to say the tanks are bad. If a tank keep the strong and elites off of the healer then, to me they have done their job. Not all the tanks have the same abilities. I also know I don’t make it easy for many tanks in HMFP because I completely out gear them both on my healer and my shadow. I also use my strongest attacks at the start and then will use my dumb aggro after competing my first rotation or a few seconds later depending on my energy since the only aggro dumb a shadow has also is very big in energy management.

 

This is my first MMO, but I have been playing it over a year now, I was taught the weaks were DPS responsibility. Weak, Strong, Elite and last boss, and I live and die by that order on DPS. HMFP have a few mob areas that no matter who the tank is, the healer gets shot. There is one place on the False Emperor where I rocket boost/stealth ahead of the group so that I can CC one weak that DPS and the Tank always ignore. Now I either stealth CC or if they pull first, kill it before I heal. Not that big a deal, but it will shoot the healer in the back the entire fight unless I take care of it first. Same thing in the first room on CtS. There is a strong behind the bar that never gets taunted by the tank or hit by DPS, so if we have enough CC’s I will CC him or stealth in behind him and use shoot first, dirty kick, sucker punch and pistol whip if needed before hitting anyone with a heal. However, I don’t blame the tank if he is keeping the elites busy and I don’t blame DPS if they are killing the weaks. Now if they are all on the elites and I am still getting shot by the weaks, I will not be happy. On guild runs this is par for the course. They pretty much expect me to deal with the weaks and strongs, but they are managing their own HP as they know how to use defensive cooldowns, know how to cleanse and know how to get out of AOEs. Plus they know I love using dirty kick and sucker punch.

 

Not sure of the other healers, but new operatives and sawbones Flash Bang, Flash Grenade is your best friend when everything is shooting you at once. Throw that and then use orbital strike/flyby.

 

Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you.

 

However, in most flashpoints you're right that, to an extent, op and smugg heals are self sufficient and one unaggrod silver, let alone one aggrod weak isn't anything to worry about. You should have a skill called "cheap shot." Most people don't use these types of skills (stun/mez prereq), but the skill will pretty much one shot any weak and take half the health of most strongs. It's cooldown lines up pretty nicely with your stun as well.

 

Edit: by sucker punch did you mean cheap shot? Or is torhead wrong about skill names. I play an op, so I'm not sure about the mirrors. Skill I'm thinking of is called eviscerate for us, which maps to cheap shot. Sucker punch, I think, maps to lacerate, which is in the stealth tree.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Larry_Dallas

Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you.

 

However, in most flashpoints you're right that, to an extent, op and smugg heals are self sufficient and one unaggrod silver, let alone one aggrod weak isn't anything to worry about. You should have a skill called "cheap shot." Most people don't use these types of skills (stun/mez prereq), but the skill will pretty much one shot any weak and take half the health of most strongs. It's cooldown lines up pretty nicely with your stun as well.

 

Edit: by sucker punch did you mean cheap shot? Or is torhead wrong about skill names. I play an op, so I'm not sure about the mirrors. Skill I'm thinking of is called eviscerate for us, which maps to cheap shot. Sucker punch, I think, maps to lacerate, which is in the stealth tree.

 

Good luck holding all the mobs' aggro with one hit as a Jedi Guardian. In the next few miliseconds you will see the guy you hit a second earlier switch back.

Good luck holding all the mobs' aggro with one hit as a Jedi Guardian. In the next few miliseconds you will see the guy you hit a second earlier switch back.

 

Not if the guy who's being targeted is a healer.

In WoW, it is difficult to find a tank that it attacked the new pack of strong mobs with 50% health. In SVTOR is this a common thing. In WoW, a few more can be found of the tank, which will start the fight when healer out of mana, or the doctor is not there. In SVTOR it constantly. The fact that people have to help the tank, and beat his goal, I did not even mention.

What is this? I just had bad luck with groups? Or is it not a basic understanding of MMO game players? Or simply a cultural feature of english game worlds?

Please do not tell me to go back to WoW. I like it a lot SWTOR despite the large number of drawbacks. I just wanted to find out why.

Sorry for my bad English.

 

Kinda late to this one, but it's mainly because game teaches players to rely on companions so they don't get the chance to really learn their role early on. I've found this problem most prevalent in first two dungeons for both sides and Hammer Station, after that players kinda understand how to play.

This game makes it so easy for people to heal up since they have a button to do so, unlike WoW where a tank needs to consume something to get health up. As someone who healed in WoW for many years I ran into plenty of tanks who always demanded to be healed up and often ran to other mobs at low health, so no, it's not a swtor thing. I always thought that when I saw people do that in swtor they were those same WoW tanks that always expected a heal even when we were all sitting down eating our buff food and recuperating.

Well, the weaks are the dps' responsibility. But sometimes there's a lot of those, or they're spread out or the deeps play a class that's light on AoE, and, if the tank's using pull aggro, all remaining will aggro the healer if not immediately attacked by something else. Understand that, in most cases, all a tank needs to do to keep ahead of or overtake a healer on an aggro table against a mob is to hit each enemy with something once. Ditto with overtaking something that's attacking you..

Yeah, but I wasn't really talking about that. I was saying it was not the Tanks fault that stuff was attacking me (healer) when dps was busy attacking the same Elite the Tank is attacking. I have no problem with the healer being attacked on my sawbones I do not even care if everyone attacks the elite. She is so overgeared for HMFP that HMFP are a joke. However, on my Operative who was 4 days 50 yesterday doing a HMFP it is a different story. Two dps from my guild, two actual friends and they attack the elite instead of keeping stuff off of me. My Operative may look like a blue version of my green sawbones, but she doesn't have the gear, so she cannot take the punishment. I can't remember the last time I died in a HMFP, but we wiped yesterday and I died 3 times. My sawbones can heal through errors in judgement, my agent cannot....yet.

 

On my shadow I also keep stuff off the healer. I don’t care how many there are…Weaks are one hit. I also don’t care how far apart they are, force speed. As far as AOE, don’t have them, don’t use them on my shadow.

Edited November 27, 2012 by mikebevo

When I'm the healer it's my job to keep you alive during combat so we all survive the fight. When I'm not healing it's my job to make sure I'm as prepared as possible for the next fight, including using my free heal out of combat. Now since I'm human I will forget to heal up once in awhile. Ok maybe more often than that but I never refuse a polite reminder to do so. If I do and insist on running into the next fight not fully healed the healer should let me die. The added repair bill will help me to learn better habits. When I'm the healer you'd better believe I will let you learn from your folly.

 

All classes have an OOC heal that only takes a few seconds to use. It is your responsibility to use it.

The worst FP PUG I was in was on my first Taral V run.

 

Our healer (scoundrel) was 10 or more levels higher than everyone else (not sure why he was even in the group), and kept rushing ahead on his speeder / in stealth mode to do all the bonus objectives and just left the rest of us to fight through the trash mobs on our own.

 

***

 

I just did an Athiss run today where the tank was a l19 JK with no shield. (Not even a case of just having their focus equipped instead - their offhand was empty, and when asked he said he didn't have one). Our gunslinger also seemed to think that his job was to pull the mobs...

 

Fortunately in this case the newbies were willing to listen to advice, so (after we wiped on the Beast of Vodal Kresh, mainly due to the tank and healer getting thrown off the cliff into a horde of gold elites) I switched to tanking and we did fine after that.

I have had a lot of groups like this. It is usually the knights and warriors that do this, because they can use focus from the last battle for the next one, and it gets on my nerves being the healer when I am a commando or Mercenary, and I usually get blamed when they die. I remember the day I was in a group with all knights and I was a commando. That was a bad day.