What happened in Patch 1.2 that destroyed the Operatives and Scoundrels? Before when it used to be "oh crap an Operative, better be on serious guard"... you know, the way pvp should be, a challenge....

To beat down a fully BM geared Scoundrel, oh he's going after the med pack... I'll let him get in, he gets it heals back up to almost full, I /dance with him, he attacks me again, and I rofl stomp him.

Then I get jumped by an Operative in a different game, hmm, this is gonna suck I say to myself, except it didn't suck, it I didn't even have to burn any cool downs.

These are all the same players, same names that I've encountered dozens of times before... what did patch 1.2 do to screw that class over? (the healer side of the class are doing better though)

Must have fought bad ones post 1.2. I still have to chase them all over the map to get a kill. They stun/mes me, it's a pain.

Edit: The pure damage ones still do lots of damage but they have been reduced some and a exploit fixed that let them use their opener twice.

No they still hurt just as much, a certain scoundrel (samson) on my server thought it would be fun to hunt me down while his team was killing huttball 6-0. Needless to say I never had a second to react to him, and for some reason my cooldowns just didn't seem to cut it.

This just isn't true. Scrapper Scoundrels (the DPS tree everyone fears) got a number of huge nerfs in 1.2. The best damage ability had its CD increased to 12s, which also meant that our best bleed can no longer be permanently up. Our energy management issues which already caused problems became much worse as the cost of key abilities increased. There was a blanket 3% reduction in Crit chance for all Scoundrels (due to a change in a Tier 1 skill that every build used.)

While well played Scrappers can still be lethal they most definitely were nerfed for a third time.

Hmmm depends...

I've confronted number of those today...

The players which just stood there and shot at me got fried in a second. those that were smart enough to use their abilities and stun\cc enough kick my "behinds" if they managed to catch me off guard.

Just adapt...

As an hybrid DPS sorc bw took one of my main attacks (the instant CL) but still I can take down a group if they don't stop me in time.

What happened in Patch 1.2 that destroyed the Operatives and Scoundrels? Before when it used to be "oh crap an Operative, better be on serious guard"... you know, the way pvp should be, a challenge....

 

To beat down a fully BM geared Scoundrel, oh he's going after the med pack... I'll let him get in, he gets it heals back up to almost full, I /dance with him, he attacks me again, and I rofl stomp him.

 

Then I get jumped by an Operative in a different game, hmm, this is gonna suck I say to myself, except it didn't suck, it I didn't even have to burn any cool downs.

 

These are all the same players, same names that I've encountered dozens of times before... what did patch 1.2 do to screw that class over? (the healer side of the class are doing better though)

I call this alt propaganda.

Hmmm depends...

 

I've confronted number of those today...

 

The players which just stood there and shot at me got fried in a second. those that were smart enough to use their abilities and stun\cc enough kick my "behinds" if they managed to catch me off guard.

 

Just adapt...

 

As an hybrid DPS sorc bw took one of my main attacks (the instant CL) but still I can take down a group if they don't stop me in time.

There is many variables,gear,the spec of the Op/Scoundrel and in a match ive noticed that if my team is even remotely below average im a blood vapor getting focused often now due to me healing,this class requires movement to stay alive but the flow of some groups is stagnant and that kills me.

It's because those Operatives weren't working in teams that stunlock people and make them quit.

Har har,,hehe

Hmm, interesting.

No energy issues?

What happened in Patch 1.2 that destroyed the Operatives and Scoundrels? Before when it used to be "oh crap an Operative, better be on serious guard"... you know, the way pvp should be, a challenge....

 

To beat down a fully BM geared Scoundrel, oh he's going after the med pack... I'll let him get in, he gets it heals back up to almost full, I /dance with him, he attacks me again, and I rofl stomp him.

 

Then I get jumped by an Operative in a different game, hmm, this is gonna suck I say to myself, except it didn't suck, it I didn't even have to burn any cool downs.

 

These are all the same players, same names that I've encountered dozens of times before... what did patch 1.2 do to screw that class over? (the healer side of the class are doing better though)

Idk but there are several Ops on ven zallow that are just beast. Sounds like youre facing players who havent adapted to the patch yet. Or they just suck.

Full BM geared DPS concealment operative that blows his complete nut (100-105 energy) probably can do 8.5k total damage against a similarly geared opponent. Doesn't help much when people are running around with 15k-19k hp.

They can't sustain a fight so people are realizing once you brush off the 1.2 "burst" you just lay into them and they'll go down like pie.

TL;DR -- you should never, ever run from a DPS operative, just lay in them for an easy win.

Let me guess, the OP is actually an Op/Scoundrel?

While I believe they are on the weaker side for high end group PvP, they are no where near as pathetic as described. Especially in 1v1 where they are still very up there.

Let me guess, the OP is actually an Op/Scoundrel?

 

While I believe they are on the weaker side for high end group PvP, they are no where near as pathetic as described. Especially in 1v1 where they are still very up there.

I have one of every toon, all 16 classes. Sooo.... I'm not sure how to answer that other than yes I have both an Operative and a Scoundrel. My main is Merc though, heals.

I started this post from being on my Marauder and destroying first a Scoundrel that used to cause me problems, then some Operatives that have also caused me problems in the past.

This is what I observed.

Open - little less than half my life gone - then nothing - then nothing - then they died.

When I play with my Operative I notice I eat through energy WAY faster than before, but that's all I noticed. My Scoundrel does not have any PvP gear at all, so I didn't even test her.

TL;DR -- you should never, ever run from a DPS operative, just lay in them for an easy win.

Wrong.

Always run from the Operative/Scoundrel unless you absolutely need the kill to clear an objective for cap. They can't chase you, they can't kill you, and, if you don't kill them, they can't restealth (without blowing vanish).

An unstealthed Operative is far, far less dangerous than a respawned Operative.

Explanation:

They have had to put original mods back in BM gear. After upgrade they get full BM with like + 11 % accuracy (around 400 accuracy rating) and like a 64 % surge (around 100 rating).

This budget - 400 accuracy rating before patch 1.2 in completely remodded BM gear was power/surge/crit.

So they can farm for War Hero with better itemization (takes time), ot put power/surge mods back and lose expertise (takes survivability away).

You cannot hit hard as operative with 300 bonus damage and 64 crit multiplayer.

This just isn't true. Scrapper Scoundrels (the DPS tree everyone fears) got a number of huge nerfs in 1.2. The best damage ability had its CD increased to 12s, which also meant that our best bleed can no longer be permanently up. Our energy management issues which already caused problems became much worse as the cost of key abilities increased. There was a blanket 3% reduction in Crit chance for all Scoundrels (due to a change in a Tier 1 skill that every build used.)

 

While well played Scrappers can still be lethal they most definitely were nerfed for a third time.

The cost of abilities increased? No, in fact, Laceration was reduced in energy cost - that's all.

It is interesting..some people now say that operatives are weak now, some other post videos like this one:

As you can see in this Youtube vid, it is working as intended but... its pritty frustrating to die without doing dmg.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCi5uT0o5xg&feature=youtu.be

 

Without being able to get out of stun lock, game over...

Poster claims it is post 1.2.

Taking both opinions into consideration I guess that operatives are balanced now;)

It is interesting..some people now say that operatives are weak now, some other post videos like this one:

 

 

 

Poster claims it is post 1.2.

 

Taking both opinions into consideration I guess that operatives are balanced now;)

LOL you didnt look,he even wrote pre 1.2,,,this is part of the BIG problem with this forum,people posting things and being misleading or not reading everything.

His qoute below the vid.

"In this battle i tried to tab select, but as you all know tab targeting is a nightmare.

I was full Centurion gear and some Battlemaster / Champ. (This is pre patch 1.2)"

Poster claims it is post 1.2.

In the description the uploader clearly states it is pre-1.2. They also don't use escape or any other cooldowns, snares or stuns and they are outgeared by a mile.

The cost of abilities increased? No, in fact, Laceration was reduced in energy cost - that's all.

The cost of abilities did increase. Laceration/Sucker Punch had its energy and damage reduced, but costs an Upper Hand/Tactical Advantage to use so the energy reduction isn't all that much useful because we rely on a proc that's consumed when we use it. Flechette Round/Acid Blade was increased to 15 and Backblast/stab was increased to 5 energy (with scrapper talents to reduce the energy cost) and both hit significantly less now.

Shoot First costs 17 Energy, Flechette round costs 15, Backblast costs 5 and Sucker Punch costs 10.

So, our opener will cost 32 energy, Sucker punch once for 10 and Backblast + Flechette round will cost 20. That's 62/100 energy within 6 seconds to do at most 10k damage in full battlemaster gear to an equally geared opponent. Throw in a blaster whip for another 15 energy and ~2000 damage and now all of our main abilities are on cooldown and we have significantly reduced energy regen due to having <40 energy. All for ~12k of damage.

And this is one of the more ideal situations. I'm not even kidding.

Always run from the Operative/Scoundrel unless you absolutely need the kill to clear an objective for cap. They can't chase you, they can't kill you, and, if you don't kill them, they can't restealth (without blowing vanish).

 

An unstealthed Operative is far, far less dangerous than a respawned Operative.

I'm not sure if this guy was trolling or not but even so -- he is dangerously close to the truth. The "8 seconds" to get out-of-combat timer being more like 30 seconds to never doesn't help but isn't the main reason. The class was clunky before 1.2 to say the least, and now it is just a joke.

The cost of abilities increased? No, in fact, Laceration was reduced in energy cost - that's all.

Flechette/acid Blade energy cost increases by 2.

Backblast/backstab energy cost increases by 5.

Turns the Table/Culling passive energy regen buff for Pugnacity/Stim boost decreases by 0.5.

And since Backblast/backstab cd increases by 3 seconds = 2 GCDs = 2 Quickshots which costs 17 energy each - 34 energy in total or 1/3 of energy bar. Sco/Op would run out of energy before they can even use the second Backblast/Backstab.

The only solution is spamming more basic attack which just gimps down the DPS of Sco/Op since half of it is negated by Miss/Deflect (If you can miss PvE weak mobs with 98% accuracy, then in PvP, it is just hopeless)and the other half is mitigated by armors.

Concealment spec ops have been nerfed into oblivion. I have ACT parses to prove what damage we now do, just go to the ops forum as I am not reposting. I don't work with speculation or anecdotal evidence. Pure facts. I have posted stats on a full bm concealment op with 1100 + expertise averaging our biggest opener for 2200.

2200 absolutely shameful. Our second biggest hit on a 12s cd is 1800 average. As some one else has posted a full rotation burning all our energy averages 8500 damage.

All you people saying "they're beasts and still stun lock me to death" are clearly wearing a see through negligee for armour. I have popped relic, attack stim and the wz power surge taking my bonus damage to 1k and used my hidden strike on a trooper and hit for.....

607... Six hundredanpd****ingseven.... Don't give me "pick other targets".

So our damage sucks and our energy empties in one open rotation.... Do we get ANY utility? No... We just melt.

I am sure I will get "l2p" "you suck as others are still God like" but unless you post actual parse data as I have over a decent number of wz you are simply lying. Amazingly I have challenged anyone who claims ops concealment to post creditable parse data as I have.... No one has... Not a single person.. Surprising that.

Must have fought bad ones post 1.2. I still have to chase them all over the map to get a kill. They stun/mes me, it's a pain.

 

Edit: The pure damage ones still do lots of damage but they have been reduced some and a exploit fixed that let them use their opener twice.

Oh for goodness sake, yet more Op trolling (intentional or otherwise). It was NOT an exploit. There is a skill called cloaking screen which pops you back into stealth. You then move behind the target and use Hidden Strike.

That is not a exploit. it has not been "fixed" beyond putting a slight colldown on Hidden Strike. Nobody was using Hidden Strike twice out of stealth. Operatives can still use their opener twice.

Hmm, interesting.

 

No energy issues?

I have to say that post 1.2, energy consumption has eased significantly thnaks to the Diagnostic Scan buff, from a Op healer perspective at least!