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Force bubble way OP


heechJunzi

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Sages/Sorcs don't get good numbers in WZs because they have no means to. There is no burst, only sustained damage. I guess the highest burst would be death field but that is nowhere near the smash. After death field you don't have that much tools to reduce one's HP further down. The figures on WZ scoreboards showing sorcerers damage are lies as every madness sorcerer who's dotting anyone and everyone with affliction knows. The figures in the table looks impressive but the fact which remains is that amount of sustained damage is relatively low when compared to any bursty class. In reality this means that having affliction on everybody would give sorcerer like 25k dmg but each target is hit for 2500HP max over period 16s (or more). That could be easily healed through and people are not really bothered about cleansing it anymore :)

 

Exactly this. Warzone objectives are largely all about bursting down opponents. Whether its securing a node or setting a bomb on a voidstar door. Killing slowly = unproductive.

As a madness spec DPS you are basically dot and run, dot and run. It's fair for open world situations, but very meh for warzones themselves. Not worthless, but certainly on the lower end of value for warzones.

Edited by islander
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Sage is significally easier to play from a "keyboard point of view". The only thing that makes it somewhat challenging at the moment is that one ability, smash. And like the poster above me stated, FiB is not an auto crit like speced smash. Nor does it consistently hit for +5K against geared opponents. Hell, even +4K on people with low expetise can be challenging if you don't use force potency first. Smash will hit for upwards 6K on a sorc/sage in +1200 experitse and that's why the current bubble mechanic is our main weapon.

 

Let's say that you got rid of the bubble stun and compared a sorc to a mara skill for skill. The sorc would have to get a 10K auto-crit ability for it to somewhat add up, considering the light armor and whatnot.

 

I've been playing with the idea that sages/sorcs should get some form of stack mechanic. For every tele/FL tick they get +10 % damage to the next ability and applied dots. Stacks 5 times. That would have brought FiB/DF closer to smash.

 

Sage is easier to play? That's wierd since I log in my sentinel whenever I want to relax and have fun without concentrating too much.

 

The amount of mistakes you can do as a sage in PvP is close to zero. As a sent/mara I can always pop a def CD or just stealth away from certain death.

Having a stacking mechanic is all fine and dandy, but if you put it on a channel/hard cast ability, you put sages in the same boat as merc/commando dps. We get interrupted and our dps is null and void.

 

I agree with you on some of the stuff though. Sage/Sorc full spec dps needs buffing/reworking for PvP.

 

I've already written in this thread about bubbles and my stance on the subject, no need to repeat it.

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Sage is significally easier to play from a "keyboard point of view".

 

From a "keyboard point of view" probably if you strictly count the number of useful abilities binded in shortcuts. But overall they are as difficult to play as any other class. As a dps sage nowdays you have to be both a "healer" keeping stun bubbles up, while at the same time doing effective dps (and this is beyond spamming tkt); only this dual-role by itself can be quite "exhausting". Also as a ranged dps it is easier to have an overall situation awareness and hence it is your "duty" to pay attention to how things evolve, while at the same time you have to defend/kite against those 3 smashers that think you are (still) an easy target.

 

 

I've been playing with the idea that sages/sorcs should get some form of stack mechanic. For every tele/FL tick they get +10 % damage to the next ability and applied dots. Stacks 5 times. That would have brought FiB/DF closer to smash.

There are many ways to increase the dps of sages. One you are mentioning, others could be to reduce the channeling time of tkt or increase the bonus damage skills from 6% to 12%. To be honest after having played 1.4 for a bit now I'm not sure if increasing the dps of sages would be a wise idea as it will create an OP class.

Edited by MusicRider
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stun bubble needs to go. each day i see more and more sorcs in WZs. just 2 of them turns all WZs into nothing but stun, stun, stun, stun. and in a WZ with more than two, might as well just stop playing because it is silly and pointless to pvp when everyone on the team has a stun bubble up 100% of the time. then add in how it can be exploited by removing it from buff bar, and well, its just silly.

 

only good thing about stun bubble is its forcing me to do more PVE content because Bubblezones are not even a little fun.

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stun bubble needs to go. each day i see more and more sorcs in WZs. just 2 of them turns all WZs into nothing but stun, stun, stun, stun. and in a WZ with more than two, might as well just stop playing because it is silly and pointless to pvp when everyone on the team has a stun bubble up 100% of the time. then add in how it can be exploited by removing it from buff bar, and well, its just silly.

 

only good thing about stun bubble is its forcing me to do more PVE content because Bubblezones are not even a little fun.

 

Utter bollocks. Play one and see.

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Utter bollocks. Play one and see.

 

i dont have to play one. all i have to do is que up and see 3 sorcs/sages on the other team and also see that they keep stunbubbles up on their entire team pretty much 100% of the time. or have 3 sages on my team and see that i have that crazy bubble on me 100% of the time. even worse, 3 on my team and 3 on imp team... everyone on both sides has stun bubbles up the entire WZs. nothing fun or competative about that. its just totally not fun for anyone.

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i dont have to play one. all i have to do is que up and see 3 sorcs/sages on the other team and also see that they keep stunbubbles up on their entire team pretty much 100% of the time. or have 3 sages on my team and see that i have that crazy bubble on me 100% of the time. even worse, 3 on my team and 3 on imp team... everyone on both sides has stun bubbles up the entire WZs. nothing fun or competative about that. its just totally not fun for anyone.

 

Look, I couldn't give a monkeys on what they nerf as long as maras take one in the butt. You are whining about something that is a non factor. 6.5k smashes, now that's game breaking.

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Look, I couldn't give a monkeys on what they nerf as long as maras take one in the butt. You are whining about something that is a non factor. 6.5k smashes, now that's game breaking.

 

i get that you like having silly stunbubbles on you and your team 100% of the time. but that doesnt mean you should derail a thread by turning into yet another nerf smash thread. yes, having an aoe attack that does more damage than most single target attacks is bad. but having everyone running around with aoe bubbles that autostun is even worse. then add in the fact that those silly stunbubbles are exploitable and its even worse x10.

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i get that you like having silly stunbubbles on you and your team 100% of the time. but that doesnt mean you should derail a thread by turning into yet another nerf smash thread. yes, having an aoe attack that does more damage than most single target attacks is bad. but having everyone running around with aoe bubbles that autostun is even worse. then add in the fact that those silly stunbubbles are exploitable and its even worse x10.

The main reason that sorcs(sages spec for it is just that, smashes, so it's a valid argument. I wouldnt wste 18 tele points on something if I didnt have to. By keeping stun bubbles on my team mates I'm reducing the risk that some smash newb will run amok. Was smashed for 6222 in 1367 expertise earlier today, does that sound like a healthy system? It would have happened 10 more times in the same game if we hadnt somehow kept him stunned.

 

And yes, I am aware that the other team has stuns too, which slows my own players down, but it's fair trade as long as one guy with a pocket healer can't kill 5 team mates in just three attacks.

 

Sorc bubble is a safety procedure gone wrong but if there hadnt been a need for it in the first place.......

Edited by MidichIorian
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Look, I couldn't give a monkeys on what they nerf as long as maras take one in the butt. You are whining about something that is a non factor. 6.5k smashes, now that's game breaking.

 

BoDie, I love this, I want this for my quote when I enter PVP. He is completely right, as it is right now the stun bubble is the only viable way to slow down smash at this time. If they take this away the WZ's willl go back to just being a smash fest and you will be queing with 3 smash specs. The system as a whole needs to be balanced, and as it is right now, the bubbles need to stay until smash is corrected.

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Utter bollocks. Play one and see.

 

Well I've played one, and I see cheese. Complete and utter cheese.

 

Anyone playing a cheesebubbler should feel extreme shame, it's so plainly broken that you would have to be suffering from some sort of mental condition that makes you blind to the obvious to not notice it.

 

Smash spec is broken. Rail Shot procs are broken. Force Shroud is broken. Predation, Undying, and Force Camo are broken. Static Barrier WAS broken before they changed it and resolve, now it's literally a game changer. Swtor pvp is no longer just heavy in cc when a cheesebubbler is around, it's >50% of your game time either cced or running back from the respawn unless your opponents just have no clue how to abuse it.

 

In fact, playing in wzs with cheesebubblers has caused me to come to appreciate Nicolas Cage's "acting" in the movie Deadfall. Now I see, he must have travelled forward through time to play this game now against cheesebubblers before going back to film that movie. Thus allowing him to perfectly express the emotions felt. They should even replace the standard respawn with a special Nicolas Cage "They're trying to kill me, man!" animation to truly capture the "I just respawned after being cced for 12+ consecutive seconds thanks to a cheesebubbler" feeling.

 

It's NSFW, but trust me, search for Nicolas Cage scenes in that movie on youtube, you'll thank me later.

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Sorc bubble is a safety procedure gone wrong but if there hadnt been a need for it in the first place.......

 

This. The only change that should be made is keeping stun bubble in line with all other resolve metrics. Other than that, stun bubble is the only thing that slows the 5/8 maras on the opposing team. Funny how that coincides with the ratio of class-> complainer in this thread.

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It is an unintentional balance to smash, that suddenly got a lot of attention because WZ are filled more with Mara than ranged classes. If they fix it without bringing smash into line and the WZ will be smash fest again with all the other classes complaining more about taking 6k aoe hits and noy way to prevent it. Unless you just want everyone to roll a smash spec ?
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This. The only change that should be made is keeping stun bubble in line with all other resolve metrics. Other than that, stun bubble is the only thing that slows the 5/8 maras on the opposing team. Funny how that coincides with the ratio of class-> complainer in this thread.

 

Uh, no. It needs to either just be rolled back to being a mez, a mez at least requires good teamwork to take advantage of. Or if left as a stun it needs to respect the normal resolve rules, as well as cost a gcd when dismissed, have no effect when dismissed, or not be dismissable at all.

 

And that's being kind, it really shouldn't even be possible to stack the shorter cd + lowered cost + shorter debuff via gear + increased absorption + aoe cc effect, that's just plain ridiculous overkill.

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It is an unintentional balance to smash, that suddenly got a lot of attention because WZ are filled more with Mara than ranged classes. If they fix it without bringing smash into line and the WZ will be smash fest again with all the other classes complaining more about taking 6k aoe hits and noy way to prevent it. Unless you just want everyone to roll a smash spec ?

 

Ok, since apparently the bandwagon has jumped onto this moronic idea, how about explaining it. How does static barrier prevent smash?

 

By absorbing it? Already does that with no cc whatsoever.

 

By preventing them from using it in the first place? How? Are you psychic? It's pretty close to impossible to prevent a smash because a smash specced player has 20 seconds to spend before the buffs which make smash broken expire. Sure you MIGHT be able to stop them from smashing when they leap in and immediately follow that with a smash, but even assuming you're fast enough that latency doesn't get in the way....guess what? You have a knockback, you could have used that, knocked him away and he would have wasted the smash. Instead you stunned him for 3 seconds, after which, he'll still have 17 seconds left on his buffs and a smash off cd. Genius!

 

By giving you the chance to run away after he breaks your bubble? Duh, smash has a 9 second cd, your stun lasts 3 seconds, and it sure is hard for smash specs to close the gap to melee....oh wait, no it isn't.

 

And of course, the cc effect ONLY affects smash specs, and no one else....Well ok, that's not true, but at least it can't POSSIBLY be abused against ranged!.....Alright, that's not true either, but I'm 100% sure that it was intended to hinder smash specs cause the devs said so!.....You people are hurting my brain, please stop.

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Ok, since apparently the bandwagon has jumped onto this moronic idea, how about explaining it. How does static barrier prevent smash?

 

By absorbing it? Already does that with no cc whatsoever.

 

By preventing them from using it in the first place? How? Are you psychic? It's pretty close to impossible to prevent a smash because a smash specced player has 20 seconds to spend before the buffs which make smash broken expire. Sure you MIGHT be able to stop them from smashing when they leap in and immediately follow that with a smash, but even assuming you're fast enough that latency doesn't get in the way....guess what? You have a knockback, you could have used that, knocked him away and he would have wasted the smash. Instead you stunned him for 3 seconds, after which, he'll still have 17 seconds left on his buffs and a smash off cd. Genius!

 

By giving you the chance to run away after he breaks your bubble? Duh, smash has a 9 second cd, your stun lasts 3 seconds, and it sure is hard for smash specs to close the gap to melee....oh wait, no it isn't.

 

And of course, the cc effect ONLY affects smash specs, and no one else....Well ok, that's not true, but at least it can't POSSIBLY be abused against ranged!.....Alright, that's not true either, but I'm 100% sure that it was intended to hinder smash specs cause the devs said so!.....You people are hurting my brain, please stop.

 

Thanks I need the laugh. The bubble is not just on sorc, they are being placed on team (you seemed to miss that part). Not all spec have a knockback that can be hit on the fly (Snipers as a example need to be in cover to use them). So as a simple example for you, if a sniper on my team has teh bubble, the 3s stun gives him enough time to get into cover, knockback, root, ambush, follow, FB, move back and cover again. For a Sorc the knock back is cone now, not aoe so without the bubble stun if I get jumped on I have little chance to survive.

 

"And of course, the cc effect ONLY affects smash specs", no I am sure it is having a affect on other close ranged specs too, but a Op or like looking to backstab will think twice about it if they see a bubble up. "but I'm 100% sure that it was intended to hinder smash specs cause the devs said so!" Did they say so? I never said they did, in fact I said it was a unintended balance as that is what I remember them saying in the post. As for your brain hurting good luck with that :cool:

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Thanks I need the laugh. The bubble is not just on sorc, they are being placed on team (you seemed to miss that part). Not all spec have a knockback that can be hit on the fly (Snipers as a example need to be in cover to use them). So as a simple example for you, if a sniper on my team has teh bubble, the 3s stun gives him enough time to get into cover, knockback, root, ambush, follow, FB, move back and cover again. For a Sorc the knock back is cone now, not aoe so without the bubble stun if I get jumped on I have little chance to survive.

 

Really? I guess I missed the memo where snipers lost their knockback ability and constantly don't use their off-gcd cover instead choosing to run away from warriors. I guess since warriors ARE the counter class for snipers though it all makes sense.....you know, except it's the other way around.

 

Are there classes that benefit from having the cheesebubble? Hmm, I think I'm going to say yes, all of them. Do all classes have their own way to counter a warrior they know is about to use smash? Thinking again...yep, they all have stuns of their own, as well as potentially knockbacks, mez, or move the heck away abilities.

 

But that still doesn't change the fact that smash isn't broken because of a one on one situation where you need to be able to counter it, it's broken because it's aoe. And unless you're incredibly aware of your surroundings, you're going to eat the aoe eventually, and likely often. Cheesebubbles don't stop this, they just change the game into a ccfest. You're looking at this from the side that is using them when the other side isn't, don't worry that situation won't last long as more and more people start abusing it.

 

"And of course, the cc effect ONLY affects smash specs", no I am sure it is having a affect on other close ranged specs too, but a Op or like looking to backstab will think twice about it if they see a bubble up. "but I'm 100% sure that it was intended to hinder smash specs cause the devs said so!" Did they say so? I never said they did, in fact I said it was a unintended balance as that is what I remember them saying in the post. As for your brain hurting good luck with that :cool:

 

What happens for ALL classes when they know someone has the cheesebubble is they think to themselves "Well bleep me" and attack anyway cause it's not like you have some choice in the matter when EVERYONE on the opposing team has the same cheesebubble.

 

How are people seeing this horribly broken ability as a solution to a problem that it doesn't even solve in the first place?

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sweet more marauder tears. keep em flowing. Don't worry for all you bad melee you can always just re-roll back to sorcerer/sage. I mean isn't that what yall do, change classes when ever a class gets a little buff.

 

There are plenty of bubble teams around on Dalborra and to be honest, its not a total win strategy. The problem is that is that its really really annoying. PVP loses its flow.

One game the other day had two teams of bubblers go head to head. The game was ****ed.

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If they nerf this- they need to do something about making sorc DPS specs have on par burst damage to make up with being so immobile and squishy while casting.

 

There's so many things that have needed to be improved in sorcs since the 1.2 massive nerfs that caused half the population to quit the game- maybe BW should stop nerfing the under performing classes in pvp and give a few buffs where they're needed.

 

Or, they can just nerf mercs, sorcs and DPS operatives again while giving juggs and marauders more buffs. That seems to be working for BW and keeping them from going f2p in the first year.

 

At least this game can serve as a cautionary tale to other games about what happens when you go nerf and buff happy without thinking about balance.

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At least this game can serve as a cautionary tale to other games about what happens when you go nerf and buff happy without thinking about balance.

 

Completely agree. You think with all the MMO's out there with PVP they could of studied some before hand. No need to copy, but atleast get a feel for the basics.

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BW either needs to roll back the resolve changes to pre 1.4, or change the bubble stun to only the sorc/sage. right now they are the FOTOM for wz's, all they do is sit back toss out bubbles on their team and sit back and laugh at the stuns they cause. i was in a WZ where they had 4 sorc tossing em out and it was not fun at all, not to mention they can still speed through flames poping their bubble and those on the other side are stunned and cant even pull them back. this is silly to say the very least.

 

BW do you actually think that you will retain subs or get F2Pers to sub with this silly CC mess you caused with 1.4?

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