While in a pug what does everyone think about people who roll need on gear they are using for an ALT. They are in 78's or 72's and rolling need on 69's?

I called a guy out for rolling need on a 69 main hand while he had a 72 and I was using a 66. He got mad and I put him on ignore and he promptly followed me on 2 other toons which I put on ignore.

Also what if the person is in 72's and rolling need for the 69 "set" bonus.

In a random pug, rolling need on a 69 mainhand when you have a 72 mainhand is not okay.

 

Rolling need on a 69 set bonus when you have a 72 non-set-bonus is completely fine. The set bonus is better than the non-set-bonus gear even if the latter is higher rating.

 

------

 

In some pugs, the leader will have some special loot rule. One you'll sometimes see: you can roll need on anything, but you can only win one token drop. Another you'll sometimes see: roll need on anything, no restrictions. If either of these are announced at the start by the leader, take heed (and find another group if you don't like it, or try to convince them to change it), but without these being mentioned, the "standard" rule of "need if you need on this toon, otherwise greed" should apply.

 

Often these days people see the 69 gear as nearly worthless, which leads to the ridiculous logic of "well, nobody should really need it, so I'm going to grab it for my alt." Sounds like you ran into one of these.

Also what if the person is in 72's and rolling need for the 69 "set" bonus.

 

69 set bonus > 78 "normal" in many cases. Always for 72s.

There is nothing you can do about it, if you pug you can have ninja's.

Next time if someone needs something you could use, just ask nicely.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Critical-

When I lead ops, I usually just say you can roll on any set pieces (except relics/ear/implants if those are all bis) and will lock you out from any further pieces.

 

In GF random queues, it isn't acceptable to take anything for an alt if it can be used by one of the players in there. If no one needs it, common etiquette requires that you ask for permission first. If they're fine with it, then they can take it for an alt.

it really bugs me as well. If im leader and I see it and they don't change they get kicked. Simples.

Happened to me on Saturday, pugged into a TFB SM 16 and the raid leader in 78s rolled need on Arkanian Bracers, as did someone who already had 69s. I'm using blue 66s as I'm gearing a toon on a new server and I decided that if that was the way things were for this group I would rather leave and try my luck at getting a run after the lockout expired. The raid leader accused me of creating drama and what was wrong with taking 69s for offspec as noone cared about them anymore. He'd even rolled against his own guildie who had 24k health and would clearly have benefited from the piece as much as, if not more than, me.

 

As luck would have it, the following day a group was advertising for a healer starting from the 2nd boss, which fit perfectly with my lockout. By the end of that run not only did I have 2pc Arkanian as only one other person needed the pieces and 2 drop in 16s, but I had both tanks asking me if I was looking for a guild

Question for OP and those who have posted in agreement with the 'People shouldn't take loot for alts' camp.

Would you rather that person came on an under-geared alt or a fully geared main to carry those not so geared through?

 

I know my answer. The faster you do the run the quicker you can do something else for gear. I would rather someone brings a main in full 78s and rolls for their alt. Rather than endure a long rubbish run (which will most likely fail at last boss) where everyone is in 66's or a character or role which they are inexperienced on. Just because they don't want to be accused of being a ninja.

 

Public runs are free for all to join and loot on (depending on who is running them). - ALWAYS ASK THE LOOTING RULES BEFORE YOU JOIN.

 

If you don't like the need / greed system but still want raiding gear join a guild which has different looting rules and go on guild runs.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Solar_Breeze

I'm in full 72s-69s and I need on anything that has a set bonus (if i don't already have it)

If you don't like the need / greed system but still want raiding gear join a guild which has different looting rules and go on guild runs.

My guild follows the same looting rules as the one you're bashing here: NEED = main chars, GREED = alts and companions. On top of that, looting is mostly set to Master Looter. We roll for gear tokens first, implants/earpieces second, comms gear third. First round of rolls is either for mains or characters we're playing on, second round of rolls (if there is one) is for offspec, alts, companions and reverse engineering. OpsLeader can and sometimes will make a judgement call and award the token gear to second, or even third, highest roll because it will mean a bigger stat boost to that player. Furthermore, winning a token means you cannot roll for next two token drops. Since the rules are logical and beneficial to everyone in the long run, no one has ever had problems with them.

 

Only drops everyone rolls and trolls each other over are miniatures and mounts, but that's just friendly "drama" and trolling because we all want them speeders and minipests. Even then the winners will sometimes give the item to another raid member. I guess we're pretty easy-going about loot drops.

 

Even though it sometimes works against us when we invite pugs to join.

I remember one time a friend was putting together a SM DP. I wanted to bring a new toon to heal (decently geared but no set bonus), we got the group together but couldn't find a second healer so I agreed to solo heal it on my overgeared main on the condition that I could roll on a set piece for the alt that I wanted to bring.

 

Nobody had a problem with it until we started downing bosses and the guy in 66blues made me feel guilty about rolling, and the majority of the group backed him. It was a fun run but I really wanted the experience/gear for my alt. :-/

My guild follows the same looting rules as the one you're bashing here: NEED = main chars, GREED = alts and companions.

 

I am not 'bashing' Need & Greed systems. At the same time your guild does not run a Need/Greed system. It runs a Priority system with small amount of loot council. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said that players who dislike public runs with Need/Greed should join a guild and run with them instead.

 

In addition, off topic, your looting rules appear to reward those who do the least work for their gear. If I go out and run multiple story mode runs to get coms mods and enhancements why should I not get an item because it is of less benefit (less + stat) just because a member hasn't bothered to do this and turns up in lower quality gear?

 

There are always issues with guilds looting systems see the above paragraph but the OP's question was for pug groups.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Solar_Breeze

I have run into this before and had people tell me I couldnt roll because I'm over geared. My response is well would you prefer I drop out of the group and stop main tanking carrying your group through this content? Response is always no.

 

 

It is completely unfair to expect someone to pass on all rolls because you are undergeared compared to them. Just because they put in more time and work on thier characters doesnt mean they dont deserve any loot for doing the same amount of work you do. I drop out of pugs constantly because I flat out tell them this before we start, if its on ML I make sure they know that I will be rolling for alts or even just to vendor because I'm not going to farm an S&V HM for pugs that I will probably never run with again.

Guild rules are one thing.

 

In pug groups, it should not matter what your gear level is like compared to others nor should there be a priority for the less geared people. If that was the case then the idiots who are still not in 72/78 at this point would get all the gear.

 

Again I am talking about pug groups, with pretty much strangers you are raiding with.

 

Everyone in the pug group is putting the same amount of time into that raid. Therefore, everyone should have an equal chance to roll in that raid regardless of anything.

 

Just because I put more time into my characters should not exempt me from rolling on gear.

Guild rules are one thing.

 

In pug groups, it should not matter what your gear level is like compared to others nor should there be a priority for the less geared people. If that was the case then the idiots who are still not in 72/78 at this point would get all the gear.

 

Again I am talking about pug groups, with pretty much strangers you are raiding with.

 

Everyone in the pug group is putting the same amount of time into that raid. Therefore, everyone should have an equal chance to roll in that raid regardless of anything.

 

Just because I put more time into my characters should not exempt me from rolling on gear.

 

Went on my character for the hell of it for a DF SM, people got butt hurt when I started winning some rolls and this was my exact answer before I was booted. I don't need anything from here for this character. I want to gear my alt. I put in the effort I deserve just a good of a chance to roll as anyone else. Guess that logic doesn't fly. I'm expected to be some sort of saint who does a pug run to be "charitable" because I'm almost min maxed.

Edited December 24, 2013 by mastirkal

Hey i let those people in group have almost all if i already have it or better then it or not i usually let the others fight over it, every now and then i think, Why shouldn't i get a Piece of the action even if i don't need it i think i deserve something even if i gave it to an alt or give it to my crew or just sell it make a little something something off of it. I do think the system should recognize who clicks on item first give them the first piece and keep track and make sure all parties in the group gets at least one reward other then comms.

Everyone pretty much knows already, unless you establish something else before hand or ask before the role: Need on stuff you need, as in that item will make your guy better so you should get a top pick to get the gear over anyone who just wants it. Greed if you just want the gear, for whatever reason. I don't care if you just want to drag the gear out of your inventory to sacrifice it to your voodoo god, you get the same priority on that gear as the guy who wants to dress his heavy armor companion in light armor robes because he thinks it looks better.

 

I'm the Tank/Best geared here! Give me all the loots! Yeah, you get kicked/ignored by anyone with a set of balls. I want all my little companions to have nice gear, but as a normal human I understand that the poor healer needs that cunning chest more than my dps companion I never use anyway, or that noob I swear I am going to have maxed out "soon". I love people saying that they should get everything because they worked harder...what do you think the guys running the FP for loot are doing?

 

Anyway, last note: Try to get some social skills. You will be amazed how many people will tell you to go ahead and roll need after you explain yourself. But that same person will kick you in a second for being a ninja.

Went on my character for the hell of it for a DF SM, people got butt hurt when I started winning some rolls and this was my exact answer before I was booted. I don't need anything from here for this character. I want to gear my alt. I put in the effort I deserve just a good of a chance to roll as anyone else. Guess that logic doesn't fly. I'm expected to be some sort of saint who does a pug run to be "charitable" because I'm almost min maxed.

 

You either do the Op for FUN (imagine that! having fun in an MMO!), or you don't do it at all. If you're SO OVERGEARED that you need nothing from the op, then no, it's not at all fair that you roll need on stuff you don't need on the toon you're using for the op. I run lower-level ops all the time to help my friends and guild. I roll greed on the stuff that isn't an upgrade for me because, y'know what? That's the fair thing to do.

 

If you don't like that, then don't run ops for gear that doesn't suit you, or be very up-front about it so people can know how greedy you are and decide then and there whether they want you along.

You either do the Op for FUN (imagine that! having fun in an MMO!), or you don't do it at all. If you're SO OVERGEARED that you need nothing from the op, then no, it's not at all fair that you roll need on stuff you don't need on the toon you're using for the op. I run lower-level ops all the time to help my friends and guild. I roll greed on the stuff that isn't an upgrade for me because, y'know what? That's the fair thing to do.

 

If you don't like that, then don't run ops for gear that doesn't suit you, or be very up-front about it so people can know how greedy you are and decide then and there whether they want you along.

 

Gearing my alts is fun. Aren't you being a bit assuming to tell me what I can and can't do. I'm fair with the general loot, I take one set piece and I'm done, is that so inhumane to try and take an Arkansan or underworld for my alt? To be honest, your opinion is worth dick to me anyway, but the question remains, why shouldn't I get a piece of gear for my alt? Why should I do ops runs out of the goodness of my heart? Why can't I run old content on my over geared character so I don't have to use the lesser geared and potently struggle more?

 

I'm not a nice person. I owe my allegiance to my guild and my team. I don't care for Joe Blow, but I'm not going to **** him over either. I'm fair, but it becomes an issue when I am told I can't have a piece of loot because I'm over geared. If I win a /roll over someone else I deserve the loot, no questions asked. It becomes a problem when you start taking more and more on a single run, that is just being a ninja through and through, but expecting the ability to roll on a piece that you could use elsewhere makes you an ***? Really? I don't believe that's the right way to think about it. Sure that new player could use it, but so can I. I came into this raid at either 1/8 or 1/16 of needed effort and completed it just like that newer or lesser geared player did. I deserve the same chance to win something and place it on an alt I plan to play with anyway.

 

I don't believe this nice guy mentality is right. Everyone should get the opportunity to roll, everyone should have the ability to win.

Edited December 24, 2013 by mastirkal

I am not 'bashing' Need & Greed systems.

You're not? Could have fooled me.

 

In addition, off topic, your looting rules appear to reward those who do the least work for their gear. If I go out and run multiple story mode runs to get coms mods and enhancements why should I not get an item because it is of less benefit (less + stat) just because a member hasn't bothered to do this and turns up in lower quality gear?

The operative word here being appear.

I don't believe this nice guy mentality is right. Everyone should get the opportunity to roll, everyone should have the ability to win.

I believe that "nice guy" mentality is the way to go.

I believe that "nice guy" mentality is the way to go.

 

Agreeing to disagree.

I agree with both sides here. When I run an ops group, the loot rule is one desirable item (a token relic, implant or set piece) per person regardless of current gear. As others have stated, they are present and contributing, so should be allowed a shot.

 

Personally, when a new character hits 55, I have so many Ultimate and Elite comms on assorted other characters that they are immediately in 72/78's and are geared for any operation. At that point is just set and relics/implants.

It is so easy to get comm gear that I feel needing on gear for an alt is unnecessary for the most part. Needing on stuff just to vendor it "because I should get something from this run" is just full retard.

I believe that "nice guy" mentality is the way to go.

 

Nope your side is wrong sorry.

Edited December 25, 2013 by LordKantner

I don't believe this nice guy mentality is right. Everyone should get the opportunity to roll, everyone should have the ability to win.

 

The problem with this sort of thinking is that people do not apply it to themselves.

 

I've heard your argument before. One guy is carrying the whole group, takes a nice drop that he won on need for his alt. I'm a bit miffed but I say nothing. The same guy, two days later on his lower alt, throws a tantrum when someone else needs for a hilt he can use for their alt. When I bring up that he did the exact same thing a few days before he says he's not running ops for other people to gear their alts.

 

Everyone says they're fair. Everyone claims they're just trying to have fun and get some utility out of the run. And as far as I'm concerned, everytime I've met someone pushing that line, they end up not wanting it to apply to themselves. Maybe you're different...but after having seen dozens of instances of this kind of double-sided thinking, I am doubtful.

 

When I run in GF I assume I'm going to be ninja'd to hell and back. I ask for the loot rules at the beginning and if I don't like them I drop and they can find another tank or heal. The very first time I get ninja'd I put the offender on ignore, tell the ops team why I'm dropping, and drop. If I'm being carried by a guy and he wants to roll need on something I really need that's his choice, and as long as that was stated up front I could care less. I personally do not roll need for alts (which is why mine are geared like crap, lol).