If you wish me to pull out the RotS novel I will do so give me an hour I will find the quote for you about Dooku vs Anakin.

You can if you like, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference.

Oh right. Well if we are considering Mace Windu to be more powerful than Jaina. Surely Vader should be more powerful too? And Jaina should be removed? Has Vader not matched and surpassed all of Windu's feats?

 

I think that is the reason the argument was made why Windu didn't make the list and Jaina did. We actually had arguments why Jaina was more powerful..... honestly all of this was already done.

You can if you like, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference.

 

"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enoy it.

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker----

Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again."

 

 

Soon after this his arms were chopped off.

 

So as you can see Ripping through the Force barriers of a powerful person like Kenobi and throwing him acrossed the room took massively less energy then using Force Valor to deal with Anakin's blows we see another example of it here

at 4:25

 

We can argue that Saba and Satele were equal in sense, but for control Saba clearly wins and by a fair margin over Satele. While Satele may win in TK abilities its not by a whole lot, as I have never seen nor heard of some one lifting more then 3 people at a time with the force. Anytime we here of some one lifting multiple things it is always inanimate objects largly do to the fact that all people, even none force sensitives, have some connection to the force and the moving biological body could break free from TK grips unless the grip is strong enough. Which is why you never see some one Choke more then 3 people at a time or even lift that many people at a time. Which also explains why personal levitation is considered a difficult maneuver as moving your body even a little could move you outside of your TK energy you are creating. Thus showing Saba to have greater shows of Levitation portion of TK then Satele showed. Her using a Force Push against Welk's knee, who has massive physical strength, while being subject of force lightning also shows her Force Push is strong, arguable even as strong as Satele's,though Satele obviously has the Advantage in Alter Enviroment an ability Saba lacked entirely so we can not be sure how strong hers would have been had she known it.

 

And according to the information about Leia's abilities levitating things is actually HARDER to do then pushes and pulls.

 

 

So verdict

 

Sense: About a tie Beni makes a good argument I personally still think Saba shows greater with her able to find the lost Force planet and better showing of Life Sense, but Satele does have the better Future Sense so its mostly a battle of Sense in the now vs Sense in the future since each wins in their respected category I would say just leave it a draw, and as Beni said this is the lesser of the powers any way.

 

Control: Saba wins this one easy her Usage of Force Valor is nearly unprecedented and only the like's of Luke, to my knowledge, has ever fought with such severe brain damage.

 

Alter: This again is argueable, Satele is most certainly a master Telekinetic, with powerful Force pushes, Waves, and skilled Levitation. She has even shown Mastery of Alter environment. However we can not say how Saba would do with Alter Enviroment as that is not a skill in her repitiore, but her skills with Force push and Levitation skills have arguably matched Satele's from pushing the massively strong Joiner Welk while under the influence of Force lightning and lifting multiple people at the same time and slamming them to the ground her TK displays are Arguably close to Satele's own TK.

 

Verdict: Saba wins as I have shown Force Valor can and will take more energy then TK and when lifting giant sheets of Metal or breaking through a powerful force wielders force shields and chucking them across the room is easier then fighting off Fatigue or just physically strong opponents and you scale that for what Saba fought off it is far more impressive then a Force Push through a Durasteel door, or a mountain being slightly defaced by a charged TK Wave.

Edited July 19, 2013 by tunewalker

Oh right. Well if we are considering Mace Windu to be more powerful than Jaina. Surely Vader should be more powerful too? And Jaina should be removed? Has Vader not matched and surpassed all of Windu's feats?

 

That's not certain. I'm not sure if Vader surpassed Windu, and I'm sure he didn't surpass all his feats. But you're right, maybe Vader was indeed more powerful than Jaina. It's something we can discuss. But Windu should deffinitively be placed above Jaina, after that we can decide if Vader surpasses Jaina and, eventually, Windu.

lol this feels like its turned into a joke..... every argument for why she was stronger then Vader is completely forgotten and now it doesn't seem to matter what she did or who she did it against. What was a good effort feels more and more like a Farce, a mockery every day.

lol this feels like its turned into a joke..... every argument for why she was stronger then Vader is completely forgotten and now it doesn't seem to matter what she did or who she did it against. What was a good effort feels more and more like a Farce, a mockery every day.

 

I wasn't present since the beggining of the thread, so I probably missed those arguments. Could you post them here, or direct me to them?

I wasn't present since the beggining of the thread, so I probably missed those arguments. Could you post them here, or direct me to them?

Here are the arguments made by Rayla:

I think Kyp and Vader are harder to judge, but for me it's clearly Jaina Solo over Vader, not only does she have the perfect force techniques to be arguably the best Jedi Sentinel/Shadow ever, her force speed was unbelievable even during the Vong war.

 

Her use of shatterpoint and stealth techniques is in my opinion unrivalled, also her abilities to affect the mind of a force user are very impressive, she can even see into past events, her raw power just outmatches Vader in my opinion.

 

She was so powerful through the Force she butchered some of the most powerful Vong and she took on twenty Sith Sabers and killed them all because she was too fast for them to keep track of, which is much more impressive than Vader's handling of the Ambush at Kessel.

 

Her power is realised fully when she is given the rank of Jedi Master by Luke himself, claiming that it wasn't training that made her so powerful, but instinct and battle in the field, because power in the Force comes naturally to her, just like it did to her Uncle.

Vader as has been stated uses his strength in the Dark Side a lot for his lightsaber duels, as stated in the ROTJ novel, he threw everything at Luke in that final duel, having re-read the novel, he does decide that actions speak louder than words and wants to show his son how much more powerful the Dark Side, is, he succeeds but only at his own expense.

 

If ROTJ Luke can defeat Vader, I am certain FOTJ Jaina Solo could.

 

Her specific powers simply show slightly greater command of the Force than her Grandfather wielded, I think the fact she faced Caedus twice in a row and not only survived but won, shows how powerful she was and her later use of Force Speed whilst severely injured to kill nearly 20 Sith Sabers is frankly an astonishing feat considering that the Lost Tribe were no mess abouts they were a powerful Sith organization.

 

And her command of Force Lightning when she has close brushes with the Dark Side is kind of frightening, especially when you consider it mangled and fried the Vong she used it on, described as deformed, it also killed Lost Tribe Sith very quickly, showing her abilities to break directly through force barriers with ease.

 

Her ability to change and alter a Force Users' mind is very impressive to, especially considering she could use it to trick the Vong as well.

 

Then there are of course her abilities in Stealth which are many and numerous and all very powerful, especially her Force Concealment, it worked so well that a Sith Lord of Darth Caedus' power didnt even know she was there at first in their second engagement.

 

Then you have her Healing Trance technique which has brought herself back from the brink of death quite a few times, which is very impressive considering that a regular Force User can't heal much beyond a broken bone or two, where as she could bring herself back from near death to almost full strength in not too long a time at all and whilst in LOTF this did exhaust her use of the Force for awhile it got more impressive in FOTJ when even after facing down multiple Sith and killing them using a massive burst of Force Speed, she still had enough left in the tank to heal her severe injuries, which she had gained before her showdown with the Lost Tribe.

 

To be quite honest I think she makes a fair argument there. It does seem to make sense that if Jaina could stand up to Caedus and win, with aid, she would able to stand up to a lesser Sith Lord i.e. Vader, without any aid and win. I'm actually thinking Mace Windu should stay below Jaina. Perhaps after all the lists are complete, we can revisit this on the project thread. Its probably best to move on to Sith for now to avoid the forums become 'clogged'.

We settle all ties on the Sith list, so now let's foccus on the Most Poerful Jedi list. We have three main issues here:

 

- Should Galen Marek be considered a Jedi.

- Jaina Solo vs. Mace Windu

- Saba Sebatyne vs. Satele Shan

- Saba Sebatyne should remain on the list?

 

Suggest we start with Marek, cause if he does make to the list, the ranked can be corrected for his entrance.

As per beni said and Rayla said before, No to Jaina moving or Windu moving.

 

Galen may be able to make it on the list but that would remove Satele, and I believe he is to ambiguously neutral to be on this list.

 

no to Satele being above Saba, Their sense was argueably equal Saba has some of the most powerful Force Valor ever seen and from my post a while back Force Valor can be just as much a sign of power as any other ability possibly even more so. Her Tk abilities were also highly advanced she was more powerful then her student Leia who was powerful enough to hold the Millennium Falcon together, but when compared to her masters TK abilities were considered novice.

 

So all said and done I do not believe any one should be moved. I feel like all of the lists are done and the only thing we need to do now is top 10 saber duelists.

Actually, we are resolving the issues on the Index thread guys, so if you want to have a say, go there.

Necro! I know, I know. Shame on me, right? Well I have some concerns about this list. Specifically Saba's position.

 

Are we certain she is more powerful than Satele? Is she even deserving of a place here? I did argue for her previously, but I did some hard thinking and I think there may need to be some adjustments.

 

Now if you don't want to consider this, go ahead and shout at me for the necro. I find solace in the fact that it wasn't a Revan vs. thread.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Aurbere

Necro! I know, I know. Shame on me, right? Well I have some concerns about this list. Specifically Saba's position.

 

Are we certain she is more powerful than Satele? Is she even deserving of a place here? I did argue for her previously, but I did some hard thinking and I think there may need to be some adjustments.

 

Now if you don't want to consider this, go ahead and shout at me for the necro. I find solace in the fact that it wasn't a Revan vs. thread.

 

I am actually thinking you may be correct here I think Satele may be above Saba, but I dont know about her off the list I cant think of some one to knock her off the list entirely. Though I will say I also think Sateele should be above Meetra as well.

I am actually thinking you may be correct here I think Satele may be above Saba, but I dont know about her off the list I cant think of some one to knock her off the list entirely. Though I will say I also think Sateele should be above Meetra as well.

 

You guys drastically underestimate Kotor Characters sometimes.

Not sure if it's because you don't like Traya, or you didn't like the plot, stopping you from playing of learning about it (all valid reasons) but look at it objectively here.

 

She achieved force Enlightmen, an ability requiring as much devotion to the Light as force light.

She could sever people from the force from even her time as a Padawan.

She bested an incredibly powerful dark lord in a force nexus, then severed another one.

She took on Nihilus, even when weakened he was a force to be reckoned with.

She could use Battle Meditation.

She returned during the Cold War to aide the Jedi, WHILST feeding power to revan for 300 years.

 

And that's just scratching the surface, sorry, Satele can't compare.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Selenial

Im starting to think, with Yodas DR quote, shouldn't he be higher than Sidious on the overall list?

You guys drastically underestimate Kotor Characters sometimes.

Not sure if it's because you don't like Traya, or you didn't like the plot, stopping you from playing of learning about it (all valid reasons) but look at it objectively here.

 

She achieved force Enlightmen, an ability requiring as much devotion to the Light as force light.

She could sever people from the force from even her time as a Padawan.

She bested an incredibly powerful dark lord in a force nexus, then severed another one.

She took on Nihilus, even when weakened he was a force to be reckoned with.

She could use Battle Meditation.

She returned during the Cold War to aide the Jedi, WHILST feeding power to revan for 300 years.

 

And that's just scratching the surface, sorry, Satele can't compare.

 

the first i believe may have just been a game mechanic

the problem with the second is every one is innately good with different powers all this says is she is innately good with Sever Force.

The power of both opponents is debatable especially Sion who's powers were mostly used to keep him alive, beyond those he hasnt done anything that impressive and its possible the amount of power it took him to keep himself alive kept him from being able to channel that energy into other things while Meetra could use her powers as she saw fit for anything.

We dont know how weakened he was its difficult to determine

So could many many other Jedi that aren't on this list its nothing worth noting

She was dead Force Ghosts arent considered last i checked.

 

Sateele can Absolutely compare she faced argueably equal and possibly STRONGER opponents as well has more impressive Neutral feats, Feats done against non-force sensitive or inanimate things, which is something that cant be disputed as her opponents being over hyped. That to me is why Sateele gets the edge. Both faced powerful opponents of which both opponents could be overly hyped so the one that has the better Neutral feats is the one that is truly better while the other is exactly as they appear to be... Over Hyped.

Im starting to think, with Yodas DR quote, shouldn't he be higher than Sidious on the overall list?

 

No..... this is something i can explain in my next rendition of Force and Midichlorians I should be able to post that tomorow some time, it can help explain why. after all potential is not the same thing as achieved.

Edited January 31, 2014 by tunewalker

I too have considered Satele over Saba, however I've also been considering a formal revising of the various lists so we can deal with these all in one chunk and hopefully with more enlightened perspectives.

 

So perhaps hold off on the debates now, but seeing as there is demand, I might push it forward.

Im starting to think, with Yodas DR quote, shouldn't he be higher than Sidious on the overall list?

That quote being?

No..... this is something i can explain in my next rendition of Force and Midichlorians I should be able to post that tomorow some time, it can help explain why. after all potential is not the same thing as achieved.

 

Not quite.

 

Potential was never a part of it.

 

It is he would have been the most powerful being in the galaxy of darkside, even more than sidious, but he wasn't, so he wasn't as powerful (And it was referring in battle terms too) so this merely means The light Side has less skill in Battle than the Dark Side, not that Yoda never reached his potential.

That quote being?

 

That Yoda would be the most powerful force user in the Galaxy if he fell to the Dark Side.

That Yoda would be the most powerful force user in the Galaxy if he fell to the Dark Side.

But he never fell to the dark side... and this was prior to Sidious reaching his zenith.

Quick question, are we judging these people by their mastery of the Light Side of the Force or over-all power?

Quick question, are we judging these people by their mastery of the Light Side of the Force or over-all power?

Overall power.

But he never fell to the dark side... and this was prior to Sidious reaching his zenith.

 

Falling to the dark side doesn't gain you extra power. It referred to battle prowess IMO, which is the only reason we say sidious is more powerful than Yoda.

 

And I don't have the quote, so Aurbere, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's "The galaxy would ever know" so.... Nothing to do with Sidious' zenith.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Selenial

I too have considered Satele over Saba, however I've also been considering a formal revising of the various lists so we can deal with these all in one chunk and hopefully with more enlightened perspectives.

 

So perhaps hold off on the debates now, but seeing as there is demand, I might push it forward.

 

You may have to re-think all the threads now, if the post-ROTJ is gone and the rumors are true that said characters are also gone.