I have never advocated for a solo-only queue, nor am I doing so here. That's my mistake for not being more clear. I've been vocal for a long time about having real matchmaking (and cross-server queues) that pits similarly geared and experienced teams against one another. Premade (4) + 4 PUGS should always face another team with 4 and 4. 8 PUGS vs 8 PUGS, and on down the line. Because this would increase queue times, cross-server is a must for this kind of system.

Understandable. Most of my replies to a quote begin based on something that the person said and generally derail into the topic in general, so don't take any use of the word "you" literally in what I post.

I agree that matchmaking of some kind needs to be in game, even if it is on just a short timeline (i.e., if you haven't been matched in 2 min it expands out on and on). Regardless of group size, a matchmaking system will still keep things even. So top tier solo players will be fillers and see far more premades simply due to their level of play and more casual groups getting together for fun may see more PUG opponents based on their level of play. Skilled players in recruit may see some mostly WH players with less skill on the other team. It all equals out to having a balance.

The wrench thrown in the machine that RTS and FPS games don't get is that each player has a different role to play based on AC and spec. Even if we could agree that all classes are perfectly balanced, an over or under abundance of one role will throw things off regardless of skill and gear. That, however, is a post for a different thread I believe.

Suffice it to say, I don't think premades are ruining non-ranked warzones.

While I still enjoy your reasonable approach and not throwing a tantrum if proved wrong, unlike doom. All the things you listed are happening now.

 

I'm talking about having a healer one side or one or two people well geared on one side. That is going to happen no matter what, so far though no system will be "perfect". While I applaud your enthusiasm for making pvp a balanced environment, some of the suggestions I can't support.

 

Like better matchmaking- It's just more of the same. Maybe even more so as time goes on since PVP isn't actually fun for new players.

 

What I do support and think should be put in the game:

Cross server queue's

Mixed faction pvp

Solo bracket pvp.

 

You can easily think out of the box and change group pvp to 2 or 4 man groups for both ranked or normal warzones. So this "backfill" issue is done away with, it's a shame certain trolls refuse to think of a solution unless it only benefits them.

 

I already stated what I wanted in PVP many times and all those solutions help queue times. Unlike "better matchmaking", my solution will actually bring more people in, hence bringing in more future competition. One thing you are going to have to accept is this.

 

Ranked PVP is dieing, due to lack of competitiveness by premades. They rather pug stomp than face challenging teams. Just because one group loves ranked, doesn't excuse the rest of them. Hence why premades are ruining non-ranked warzones, because they refuse to preform on a higher level.

 

I probably hurt some e-peen ego's with that bit of truth

I always appreciate pulling a legitimate post out of you. Amazing how constructive posts can get you away from straight trolling

I would say PUG stomping is a supreme minority in the world of PVP grouping. Mostly I think people want to win and the best way to win is to play with other people who want to win. It's not so much that they want to face bad opponents, just that they want to ensure they don't lose because of their own team's incompetence. I think that is legitimate.

I know you've seen many of my posts on the subject, so I won't repeat it all for the sake of my keyboard not exploding, but would like to discuss one thing you mentioned (even if not specifically on topic). Mixed faction PVP. I'm not sure I can get on board with this idea completely but it would be an interesting way to expand the population without cross-server queues (only need 16 people total, not specific to one side or the other).

I actually thought Huttball would be this way based on their explanation pre launch, but they only meant that it was the only game where you could play same faction matches. I see no reason why the Hutts wouldn't randomly select teams regardless of faction for this game and I think it would be an interesting twist on instanced PVP. I'd still prefer it was not done for all warzones simply because you lose that imp v rep mentality if there is too much intermingling

I actually thought Huttball would be this way based on their explanation pre launch, but they only meant that it was the only game where you could play same faction matches. I see no reason why the Hutts wouldn't randomly select teams regardless of faction for this game and I think it would be an interesting twist on instanced PVP. I'd still prefer it was not done for all warzones simply because you lose that imp v rep mentality if there is too much intermingling

I would support cross-faction Huttball for exactly these reasons, but no other warzones.

on the one hand when you are talking that people should not q as group (premade) it is the same as when you asking lolsmashers (focus/rage spec) not to use smash.

but on the other hand when i push the Solo q button (and i have the reason why i use it for example) i dont want to play against 8 ppl from 1 guild.

about solo ranked.

1. Solo ranked q = solo normal q = same problems that we have atm.

2. WZ comms will be useless, right ? because why should i q for normal if ranked can give me rwz comms ? (no matter the cost - win or lose)

so, it's pointless.

cross-faction ? pls no. i hate Imps and don't want to play with them in 1 team. and this --> "lose that imp v rep mentality "

P.S. more then 130 pages in this thread. keep it going and lets hope that devs will tell us what are they thinking about it.

I agree that premades are a pain in the Bleep, but we really need cross server pvp ques before BW can stop premades for quing against pug groups.

A neat thing we are starting to do when the same ld50 premade decides to pugstomp, we actually all just quit the match at once.

A neat thing we are starting to do when the same ld50 premade decides to pugstomp, we actually all just quit the match at once.

Yeah, because they know that when they form a team, all they will come up against are pugs

I dont know how common this is or I am just being unlucky. I dinged L50 yesterday and got myself 1 part of Battlemaster from PvP:ing during Lv1-49. Since I dinged L50 I've done around 7-8 warzones and all of em has been against a full group of players dingling above 18k health meanwhile our group is around 14-15k.A

Anyway my question is: Do you face premade all the time, and is it even a chance to fight again a pug?

I dont know how common this is or I am just being unlucky. I dinged L50 yesterday and got myself 1 part of Battlemaster from PvP:ing during Lv1-49. Since I dinged L50 I've done around 7-8 warzones and all of em has been against a full group of players dingling above 18k health meanwhile our group is around 14-15k.A

 

Anyway my question is: Do you face premade all the time, and is it even a chance to fight again a pug?

I'd say you've been unlucky if the facts of your story are 100% true.

There are a multitude of issues here though. First it would appear you have some faction imbalance, and that more geared players play one side than the other.

Second would be the gear issue, which is causing the huge number difference in your health.

As it's impossible to queue a full 8 man group in normal (though using an abuse of the queue system, a full 8 man -can happen) , you either landed 8 times against a double premade, or just a premade and a few geared/skilled pugs. Getting out of your recruit gear will help.

My answer is: From my experience I face off against more 4-man's than full pugs or double premades, and as I both solo and group queue from time to time, I am often on or with a 4 man of my own.

my suggestion to you is to look for a guild that's recruiting, and start grouping up yourself. Gear will work itself out in time, and the skills and teamwork you will learn from a group will definitely help your pvp experience.

I dont know how common this is or I am just being unlucky. I dinged L50 yesterday and got myself 1 part of Battlemaster from PvP:ing during Lv1-49. Since I dinged L50 I've done around 7-8 warzones and all of em has been against a full group of players dingling above 18k health meanwhile our group is around 14-15k.A

 

Anyway my question is: Do you face premade all the time, and is it even a chance to fight again a pug?

On ToFN its ~20% premades in normal pugs and thats often only 4ish groups then.

Not often to fell on a 8man premade except we are q'd with 3 groups

A cross server queue for PWZ and RWZ would really be cool .. i mean ... really ^^

On ToFN its ~20% premades in normal pugs and thats often only 4ish groups then.

Not often to fell on a 8man premade except we are q'd with 3 groups

^

I see ~40% premades from imp side and ~20% from rep side.

Rep side much more pugged and as consequence roflstomped.

I dont know how common this is or I am just being unlucky. I dinged L50 yesterday and got myself 1 part of Battlemaster from PvP:ing during Lv1-49. Since I dinged L50 I've done around 7-8 warzones and all of em has been against a full group of players dingling above 18k health meanwhile our group is around 14-15k.A

 

Anyway my question is: Do you face premade all the time, and is it even a chance to fight again a pug?

No offence to you but you should be more prepared for 50 PvP and should be getting at the least 2 pieces of WH and a few pieces of BM right off the bat. There is a gear gap no question about that. Players who just waltz into PvP after hitting 50 in full recruit gear will have a disadvantage but if you stock up comms you can make the transition much, much more tolerable.

As for having your whole team at 15k and the other at 18K well I am sure that will happen but not very often.

You know what I do when the premades are flourishing and the pugs gets stomped?

 

I stop PVP'ing for the day.

That's what quitters do, make room for someone to actually try.

No offence to you but you should be more prepared for 50 PvP and should be getting at the least 2 pieces of WH and a few pieces of BM right off the bat. There is a gear gap no question about that. Players who just waltz into PvP after hitting 50 in full recruit gear will have a disadvantage but if you stock up comms you can make the transition much, much more tolerable.

 

As for having your whole team at 15k and the other at 18K well I am sure that will happen but not very often.

So true. But the real problem is that a lot of players (myself included) have their 50 lvl toons and never played a single match. So our only option at 50 is that flimsy recruit gear.

On the other hand, for my next low toons as soon as I hit lvl 40 valor rank, I save like crazy those comms and this time, entering a lvl 50 match with 2 war-hero pieces and 3 BM DOES really make a difference, indeed.

So not matter your skill, expect quite a big number of losses with recruit not matter if its against a premade or pug. That's the harsh true.

The harsh truth is in 1.6, there is WH gear for regular wz comms lol. EWH gear for ranked comms but the stat difference is laughable. Everyone will have the best gear even the newest of players. There will be no more excuses to make fellows. Come into wz's ready to play your class well, along with the objectives or you will lose every time.

Couldn't agree with you more, pal. Patch 1.6 will radically change pvp for better or worse. No more excuses for a lack of gear. You either enter a lvl 50 match with a mix of EWH & WH and the skill to match....or you better don't enter at all.

I wonder what the new excuse will be in 1.6. Probably "hacks"??

So true. But the real problem is that a lot of players (myself included) have their 50 lvl toons and never played a single match. So our only option at 50 is that flimsy recruit gear.

 

On the other hand, for my next low toons as soon as I hit lvl 40 valor rank, I save like crazy those comms and this time, entering a lvl 50 match with 2 war-hero pieces and 3 BM DOES really make a difference, indeed.

 

So not matter your skill, expect quite a big number of losses with recruit not matter if its against a premade or pug. That's the harsh true.

Ever heard of Legacy Gear?

You only need one toon to get "well geared" in PvP, then use that toon to get top-tier sets for other toons. Mail them via legacy gear to said alts.

I had a full BM set for my new toon in a week. As soon as I dinged 50, I was BM, and augged everything...

Result= "gear gap" eliminated

So the only "real" issue is with players who don't have alts(1 toon) and didn't PvP at all until 50. No worries, WH gear will be available much like a BM is now...

I tried to avoid this thread, but someone give me the "for dummies" version.. Is the premade QQ about the gear balance or about the matchmaking/losing? Or both?

Ever heard of Legacy Gear?

 

You only need one toon to get "well geared" in PvP, then use that toon to get top-tier sets for other toons. Mail them via legacy gear to said alts.

 

I had a full BM set for my new toon in a week. As soon as I dinged 50, I was BM, and augged everything...

 

Result= "gear gap" eliminated

 

So the only "real" issue is with players who don't have alts(1 toon) and didn't PvP at all until 50. No worries, WH gear will be available much like a BM is now...

 

I tried to avoid this thread, but someone give me the "for dummies" version.. Is the premade QQ about the gear balance or about the matchmaking/losing? Or both?

Yeah, you're right about this, legacy gear saved all of my lvl 50 alts that didn't have single piece of BM or WH piece. Actually this happens with plenty of people who don't bother to pvp until they're lvl 50.

And that pretty much sums this whole thread: the complain about the gear gap and the premades with full gear set.

Like many said before, patch 1.6 will hopefully fix this. Though if they still haven't saved a single warzone comm by the time they reach lvl 50, the gear problem will only get worse in 1.6.

I wonder what the new excuse will be in 1.6. Probably "hacks"??

"Min maxed players are ruining warzones for new war hero geared players"

"Min maxed players are ruining warzones for new war hero geared players"

im soo looking forward to 1.6 because of that..to see what the excuse will be..like..if they will actualy blame groups that have the same gear as they do...

im soo looking forward to 1.6 because of that..to see what the excuse will be..like..if they will actualy blame groups that have the same gear as they do...

People will always find an excuse for their suckage.

People will always find an excuse for their suckage.

Yep you will never hear "that was a good team" or "that player is good I should work on improving my play style". It will always be "pfft we lost because we obviously faced a premade" or "If you didn't have BiS WH gear and used it as a crutch I would have beaten you".

Yep you will never hear "that was a good team" or "that player is good I should work on improving my play style". It will always be "pfft we lost because we obviously faced a premade" or "If you didn't have BiS WH gear and used it as a crutch I would have beaten you".

Is this the best solution... everyone sees VICTORY on the scoreboard at the end of the WZs.

I tried to avoid this thread, but someone give me the "for dummies" version.. Is the premade QQ about the gear balance or about the matchmaking/losing? Or both?

I'm not sure there is a short recap of this thread at this point. Suffice it to say there have been compelling arguments from both sides in some cases, but mostly trolling about solo queuers being trash and premade players being trash who hide behind better friends.

I'd say the overall productivity is fairly low considering the length of the thread.