It is one thing to read up on tanking, but it's another to try and set it in stone, like the rotations for example.

Every boss is different, therefore you should as a tank be able to change and adapt, as well as read the different situations correctly, tanking is never about how much damage you can take...........

it's about how much control and manipulation you can assert over a given situation.

Put it this way, I once read a quote on this forum, which simply said...

If DPS is poetry, then Healing is an art form and Tanking is strategy.

With that in mind it is important to understand your class, understanding comes from practice and knowledge, knowledge is gained via learning and practice, and learning is gained via study.

So use Fraps to study the fight and note the mechanic timings as well as your own, also it is essential to fully read and understand your skills tree, now you may be thinking this is a little in your face, but this is important as there are hidden combinations to be learned.

Now if I may, I would like to use this guys statement as an example of what never to do.

Hmmmm ...... lol ? Using a taunt as 2nd spell = noob. yes, noob.

 

Kinetic Ward just before engaging

Engaging with Force Pull during Force speed to reach the boss

Project

Slow Time

Force Breach

Double attack

Project

Force Potency

Telekinetic Throw

 

And now, if you want to be SURE to keep the boss, Mind Control, but you probably don't need it, unless your DPS are overgeared and without guard.

The first mistake he has made is to try to elevate his status on this thread by insulting me, what he has failed to understand is that as a tank, I get beat up for fun, I therefore have no ego to bruise, therefore this first statement is a complete waste of time.

The second mistake is to open this particular fight with Force Pull (cooldown 45 seconds) and Force Speed (cooldown 20 seconds), this person is putting himself before the group.

Force pull may be required to pull an add off the healer or if an add has targeted you, then pull him in and kill him.

Force speed should be saved till later in the fight, since this boss will impair your movement by at least 50%, you may also find your cooldown timers slowing, activating force speed will de-buff you straight away.

Rotations are something you really need to workout and experiment with, some tanks will tell you blah, blah, blah, I say read, listen and learn, but do your own homework.

I prefer to open this particular fight with Slow Time, I can do this from the rocks giving me first strike. It reduces the groups damage taken by 5%, has an aoe range of 10 meters and reduces the movement speed by 30%. Also Force Break helps, but it stands to reason that the attack speed is also reduced, it lasts for 15 seconds with an 8 second cooldown.

The most important thing about slow time is that it gives you one stack of Harnessed Shadows, and we need three stacks of it asap, and as often as possible, I just got my first stack and the fight has not even started.

My second taunt, Mind Control, again I use this for several reasons, the first is I get 100% agro before he has caused me any damage.

The second, he is forced to attack me for the next 6 seconds, allowing me plenty of time to move him into position and finish my first rotation.

I don't have to worry about sentinels or commando's.

The third, while he is forced to attack me, he can not use aoe attacks on the group, that's a 6 second window without yellow circles.

Then when it wares off, you'll find that slow time is still in effect and that the yellow circles are reduced in numbers and frequency.

As I have said before it just takes time and practice to be a decent tank. Wiping is just practice for the next time.

Just to prevent confusion, technically he is a mini boss. True bosses drop tiered gear and mini bosses do not. Just help prevent confusion.

I have done this fight in all roles in gear from Tionese to Dread Guard. Sometimes you can die just from bad luck letting several hits of his massive spike damage through (yes 6.7K is not unheard of). Your gear and stats are perfectly appropriate for this fight and unless you are standing in yellow circles or losing aggro, you are doing your job fine.

The times where I run into problems is when the DPS do not kill the little guys first (as DPS should almost always do) and beat on the tank/healer or when the healer decides everything is fine and thinks they have time to DPS. As long as the DPS kill the adds and the healer then can do nothing but pump heals into you the fight is easy. All it takes is one role not doing what they are supposed to and things fall apart.

Shadow/Assasin tanking is my favorite class in the game so far. The important thing to remember is that if you stacks of Kinetic/Dark ward are not being consumed it is a force/tech attack this is bypassing shield/absorb and therefore resilience is your friend. If it is being consumed, deflection is your friend. Pay attention and use the appropriate CD.

The first mistake he has made is to try to elevate his status on this thread by insulting me, what he has failed to understand is that as a tank, I get beat up for fun, I therefore have no ego to bruise, therefore this first statement is a complete waste of time.

No comment. Seriously, no comment Go farm KP SM untill you can REALLY tank.

The second mistake is to open this particular fight with Force Pull (cooldown 45 seconds) and Force Speed (cooldown 20 seconds), this person is putting himself before the group.

 

Force pull may be required to pull an add off the healer or if an add has targeted you, then pull him in and kill him.

That's what "MIND CONTROL" is for. And, on that fight, there isn't any add. Yes, seriously, only 3 mobs close of the boss but they don't repop if you wipe. And these 3 mobs can be one shotted by a DPS, in the worse case 2-shotted. A tank SHOULDN'T leave a boss when the DPS are DPS'ing.

Force speed should be saved till later in the fight, since this boss will impair your movement by at least 50%, you may also find your cooldown timers slowing, activating force speed will de-buff you straight away.

That boss needs Force Speed ? And 20s isn't like 2 minutes.

Rotations are something you really need to workout and experiment with, some tanks will tell you blah, blah, blah, I say read, listen and learn, but do your own homework.

And that's why we have so many noobs shadows/assassins. They're loosing the agro 3 times per fight and blame the DPS.

I prefer to open this particular fight with Slow Time, I can do this from the rocks giving me first strike. It reduces the groups damage taken by 5%, has an aoe range of 10 meters and reduces the movement speed by 30%. Also Force Break helps, but it stands to reason that the attack speed is also reduced, it lasts for 15 seconds with an 8 second cooldown.

GCD = 0.75s. No comment.

The most important thing about slow time is that it gives you one stack of Harnessed Shadows, and we need three stacks of it asap, and as often as possible, I just got my first stack and the fight has not even started.

Slow time = 8s CD, Prject = 6s. I can throw my first TTK after 6s, you cannot before 8.

My second taunt, Mind Control, again I use this for several reasons, the first is I get 100% agro before he has caused me any damage.

The second, he is forced to attack me for the next 6 seconds, allowing me plenty of time to move him into position and finish my first rotation.

You don't even understand how the agro works. No comment.

I don't have to worry about sentinels or commando's.

Un til someone who has cleaned the game comes.

The third, while he is forced to attack me, he can not use aoe attacks on the group, that's a 6 second window without yellow circles.

You don't even know how this fight works.

Then when it wares off, you'll find that slow time is still in effect and that the yellow circles are reduced in numbers and frequency.

Again, GCD = 0.75.

As I have said before it just takes time and practice to be a decent tank. Wiping is just practice for the next time.

What do you call a decen tank ? Someone having difficulty to clean EC HM AND with a full 61 set ? That's what I call a noob tank.

My first instinct was to get some popcorn, but I've decided that coffee and After Eight spell pure win. Do continue.

Yeah I don't know what the hell happened here I thought the were talking about the first boss which can actually be difficult. Now they are talking bout shaclaw who is ridiculously easy. Only strategy needed here is dps kill three adds, stay out of yellow crap and dps the shaclaw. Not sure how much more simple it could get.

Yeah I don't know what the hell happened here I thought the were talking about the first boss which can actually be difficult. Now they are talking bout shaclaw who is ridiculously easy. Only strategy needed here is dps kill three adds, stay out of yellow crap and dps the shaclaw. Not sure how much more simple it could get.

I said that too But some "OMG OMG I R ROXXOR" came and gave some "tips" about a "rotation". And this "tip" was more than a crap.

Yeah I don't know what the hell happened here I thought the were talking about the first boss which can actually be difficult. Now they are talking bout shaclaw who is ridiculously easy. Only strategy needed here is dps kill three adds, stay out of yellow crap and dps the shaclaw. Not sure how much more simple it could get.

It seems to me that sometimes Shaclaw is bugged or used to be bugged. I was taking unhealable amounts of damage as a tank right from the start even though I definitely wasn't standing in a yellow circle. We wipe and on next attempt the damage goes back to normal and I never drop below 80%. Da hell?

On my last few Lost Island runs, however, there was no such problem at all.

Yeah I don't know what the hell happened here I thought the were talking about the first boss which can actually be difficult. Now they are talking bout shaclaw who is ridiculously easy. Only strategy needed here is dps kill three adds, stay out of yellow crap and dps the shaclaw. Not sure how much more simple it could get.

That's a short fight but if both the healer and the tank aren't paying attention, like really, tank can get a couple of crits and die.

I think that miniboss is more capable of killing a tank than anything else in all the other flashpoints (at least on the empire side) . I've seen it a few times and it's quite hilarious. "lolwtf .... what got me ?"

when the healer decides everything is fine and thinks they have time to DPS. .

Any decent healer can do both and most of the time in PUGs they have to do both or the adds will never go down. The fight is so short I can burst dps at the start, while still keeping a eye on the tank. Hit coolhead and never worry about the energy the entire fight. Although that is all going to depend on gear. I would suggest healers in anything below Rakata may want to just keep their focus on the tanks and limit their dps to the adds hitting them. Which in 40% of PUGS will be all of them.

GCD = 0.75s. No comment.

The GCD is 1.5 seconds. If you're going to spout numbers about fundamental time frames of the game, at least have the decency to not get it wrong.

Slow time = 8s CD, Prject = 6s. I can throw my first TTK after 6s, you cannot before 8.

Slow Time actually has a CD of 7.5 seconds. It shows 8 seconds because the UI does not display partial second CDs and ends up rounding in cases where it would otherwise. Also, it wouldn't be "using TkT after 6s" for you; it would be "using it after 7.5s" because you still have to wait for the GCD initiated by using Project a second time to resolve before you can use TkT. Proj>ST>Proj is only 1 GCD faster than ST>Proj>ST, so it's not really a major issue (on boss fights, I always use Proj>ST>Proj first because it generates more threat faster than ST>Proj>ST, but I also alternate between the two use orders because ST>Proj>ST is substantially cheaper and you have to in order to maximize your HS stack generation).

The GCD is 1.5 seconds. If you're going to spout numbers about fundamental time frames of the game, at least have the decency to not get it wrong.

 

Sorry

 

Slow Time actually has a CD of 7.5 seconds. It shows 8 seconds because the UI does not display partial second CDs and ends up rounding in cases where it would otherwise. Also, it wouldn't be "using TkT after 6s" for you; it would be "using it after 7.5s" because you still have to wait for the GCD initiated by using Project a second time to resolve before you can use TkT. Proj>ST>Proj is only 1 GCD faster than ST>Proj>ST, so it's not really a major issue (on boss fights, I always use Proj>ST>Proj first because it generates more threat faster than ST>Proj>ST, but I also alternate between the two use orders because ST>Proj>ST is substantially cheaper and you have to in order to maximize your HS stack generation).

 

Of course we need to manage our forcE. I was just angry to see someone put as advice to use the taunt as 2nd spell.

I find combat log parsing to be a good way to figure out why an attempt or string of attempts went poorly compared to others. A good parser will pull out damage sources by attack, heals received, and damage taken in easy to read format.

Things you can spot in your log as tank:

1) Was I standing in stupid?

2) Were the adds dead?

2) Was I receiving heals?

4) Was I just unlucky and took X hits/crits in a row without defense or shield mitigation chance triggering?

It sounds like you are talking about the Shaclaw. If that is the case, I suspect the issue is that you got hit by a graphical bug where you are actually standing in a invisible yellow circle. You take damage as though you are in one but low and behold it's not there. I'm pretty sure it puts a stacking dot on you (been awhile since I tanked it so not entirely sure), so that and the red damage text can clue you in.

A similar graphical glitch can occur on the robot boss on Boarding Party. In that FP, the lightning streams display, but in the wrong locations. So you may think that you are safe, but you actually take damage. Again, the red damage text is an indicator to move.

It sucks that these glitches occur, but if you wipe; they typically don't happen the next time around.

I said that too But some "OMG OMG I R ROXXOR" came and gave some "tips" about a "rotation". And this "tip" was more than a crap.

LOL, I think you need therapy sunshine, good manners cost nothing, people have the right to make suggestions and recommendations with out the likes of you ******** on them, you don't know me, you have never seen me tank and you are not aware of my endgame stats.

Yet you are able to make assumptions about me based poorly on your own abilities, perhaps if you don't have anything productive to add to the conversation, you should in future just ****.

Of course we need to manage our forcE. I was just angry to see someone put as advice to use the taunt as 2nd spell.

Aww, you poor wee thing, here's a Cookie.

I find combat log parsing to be a good way to figure out why an attempt or string of attempts went poorly compared to others. A good parser will pull out damage sources by attack, heals received, and damage taken in easy to read format.

 

Things you can spot in your log as tank:

 

1) Was I standing in stupid?

2) Were the adds dead?

2) Was I receiving heals?

4) Was I just unlucky and took X hits/crits in a row without defense or shield mitigation chance triggering?

Forgot about that actually, you could also try this, works for me.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/upload

@Kabolt, reading from the top of the thread (I came late the party) don't you think Mind Control would better be saved for later in the fight?

When I got my Shadow Tank to 50 and started doing end-game, I fiddled around with a number of different rotations, and I felt that I was able to grab aggro hard and fast in the beginning of the fight with my regular abilities, and I saved the aoe taunt for those times when dps weren't picking up adds and started after the healer.

It just seems a waste to use it so early when the threat tables on each mob are so low that the +30% threat is meaningless.

@Kabolt, reading from the top of the thread (I came late the party) don't you think Mind Control would better be saved for later in the fight?

 

When I got my Shadow Tank to 50 and started doing end-game, I fiddled around with a number of different rotations, and I felt that I was able to grab aggro hard and fast in the beginning of the fight with my regular abilities, and I saved the aoe taunt for those times when dps weren't picking up adds and started after the healer.

 

It just seems a waste to use it so early when the threat tables on each mob are so low that the +30% threat is meaningless.

To be honest you don't even need MC in this fight, the fight should only take about 30 seconds, The fastest I have seen it done is about 10 seconds, the slowest about a minute.

A shadow can get aggro in about 3 seconds without using taunts and keep it. So if you don't wish to use it, or keep it till later that's entirely up to you.

The most important thing is to feel comfortable and relaxed. Once you've cleared this boss a few times you will find your rotations and timings changing anyway, because you'll see the fight with different eye's if you get my drift.

Personally I feel MC and mass taunt are too slow, by the time you cast it, and the mob or add turns towards you, for me this feels like a life time, it seems to take forever, and of course they always take that last swing at the healer.

So even if I didn't use it in the beginning, I wouldn't really use it later unless I really had no choice, I'd be more inclined to just pull the add to me followed by a double strike and they are all your.

Try it different ways, with different bosses, the good thing about shadow tanks is everything about them generates threat.

For me using it early allows to to take my time, I can check the position of the group, see if they have the adds, take out an add myself if need be, move the boss, and not be put under any pressure during this time. I feel in control.

Also when playing with people I don't know I always just ask them in chat if they could take down the adds first plz

@Kabolt, fair enough, although I guess that's pretty specific to that one encounter.

I was more referring to fights in general, especially ones with lots of mobs. The opening fight in FE comes to mind. I've pugged that fight a lot as a dps, as a healer, and as a tank. My personal takeway was that I always wanted to save my taunts for later.

A shadow tank has strong aoe opening as far as pulling aggro, but there are a lot of mobs to deal with. As a healer, I've been put in a bad way MANY times during that fight. One or two hits before the tank pulls the mob back isn't a problem. Being chased by one of the Sith while three ranged mobs firing at me from the back IS.

Sure, you can point fingers at the dps, but if your taunts aren't on CD, you've got the perfect tool to fix the situation.

I would be hard pressed to recommend to new Shadow tanks to use the taunt at the beginning of any fight. I'm glad it works out for you, but generally speaking, taunts are such a valuable tool in the Shadow's repertoire that in almost every case it is better served later on.

@Kabolt, fair enough, although I guess that's pretty specific to that one encounter.

I was more referring to fights in general, especially ones with lots of mobs. The opening fight in FE comes to mind. I've pugged that fight a lot as a dps, as a healer, and as a tank. My personal takeway was that I always wanted to save my taunts for later.

I like to CC a sith, then I'll move back 20+ meters and pull the sith to me, that's him out of the fight for a whole minute, usually the whole fight. Then moving into the group while cloaked will start the fight.

At this point just let the group dictate the fight, if they start an aoe attack, just use mass taunt to pull the mobs into the circle. If they start melee attacks, take a second to watch which droids if they are not stunned attack the dps, and intervene, all you have to do is raise your threat level, you have ST, FB, Pro and (TKT- only use every 3 stack of HS ) or it's wasted and these are your ranged weapons. The saber attacks have a 4m range on them, so you don't need to be right beside your target.

As a rule, or in my opinion, you should always start with the biggest threat, usually a droid, always turn the droid from the group, if the other droid is loose, stun or MC him, switching from target to target does not loose you aggro.

I order to complete your rotations correctly, you do not need to be focused on one target, you can use Pro on one target and ST on another, while using FB on your primary target, the tab key is your friend here.

I love to be cheeky, if an add moves toward the healer, I'll wait till he gets there, then pull him back, depending what's on CD I'll often just let them start to move back to the healer, then throw a couple of boulders at the back of his head, It always hurts them and fun to watch.

A shadow tank has strong aoe opening as far as pulling aggro, but there are a lot of mobs to deal with. As a healer, I've been put in a bad way MANY times during that fight. One or two hits before the tank pulls the mob back isn't a problem. Being chased by one of the Sith while three ranged mobs firing at me from the back IS.

Every fight is different, The healer in my book should always take priority, in extreme cases, I have seen myself moving to the healers side to dps and pull the adds off the healer, but that's really bad crowd control, unless you pull more than one group at a time, things should never get that bad.

Sure, you can point fingers at the dps, but if your taunts aren't on CD, you've got the perfect tool to fix the situation.

 

I would be hard pressed to recommend to new Shadow tanks to use the taunt at the beginning of any fight. I'm glad it works out for you, but generally speaking, taunts are such a valuable tool in the Shadow's repertoire that in almost every case it is better served later on.

I would always recommend that they try different things, my build is different from yours and the problem with new tanks is the build is continually changing, so you need to learn what works best for yourself in a given situation. and progress with that.

Learn and understand your own limitations, not others.

I would always recommend that they try different things, my build is different from yours and the problem with new tanks is the build is continually changing, so you need to learn what works best for yourself in a given situation. and progress with that.

 

Learn and understand your own limitations, not others.

Finally something making sense. But I usualy have a few rules against packs.

-I take the big ones and focus one of them, keeping the others away from the healer with my AOE's.

-The DPS are killing the weaker ones alone.

-If a DPS attacks a big one I'm not focusing : I'll let him tank. I will not hold his hand just because he can't focus the good mob.

-Mass mind control is useful when your team decides to use many AOE's, or when a pack spawn during a boss fight and are aiming your healer.

Against bosses :

-I NEVER ASK MY DPS TO HOLD ON, AND I WILL NEVER ASK THEM TO. Well, to be honest there is a single situation where I can ask them to give me a few seconds : when the JM spawns (WH fight in TFB HM), I ask them to not attack the JM untill I'm next to a wall. Mostly because I can't hit him during a few seconds.

OP back again here.

I managed to get some LI runs going (well aiming for my weap but no success ) and used the advice here...

Basically the keep strafing part. I noticed that, even when there was NO<- yellow circle under my feet, I did receive damage from eruptions underneath. I guess the first boss is bugged when it comes to that part?..

It sounds like you are talking about the Shaclaw. If that is the case, I suspect the issue is that you got hit by a graphical bug where you are actually standing in a invisible yellow circle. You take damage as though you are in one but low and behold it's not there

Guess the first person commenting on that bug was right. In one of the last fights I did in the last 2 days, one of the party members died by that damage while not standing in yellow circles as I paid attention to everyone in that fight. I was like waddafuh. I kept strafing and pretending that eruptions without yellow circles were just those yellow circles and it was as if I didn't even need a heal.

On the subject of using Mind Control.. I do not use it unless I am losing aggro (like someone here said Shadow Tanks have great threat control and I don't have problems with it) or if I know a boss does AOE damage.

 

Forgot about that actually, you could also try this, works for me.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/upload

LOL. Because the best way to avoid using a combat log parser is obviously to use a combat log parser.