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ENDGAME UPDATE: Space


EnkiduNineEight

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Thesis: Space/Space Combat is not what many people were expecting or want. It is a series of repetitive missions with no conflict with other players. There is little reason to engage in space missions and so a significant portion of the game has been relegated to the sidelines and unused.

 

Solution: Along with my 'ENDGAGE UPDATE: World PvP' thread (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=530312) I would suggest the following be included/added.

 

In the 'Ilum System' where you would now have 3(4) available new planets for open world PvP that matters, also create an Ilum Space Zone'. The Ilum Space Zone is an 'open' space zone where players can interact with each other from their ships. NO Auto-leveling will be performed, so your ships items/equipment are what determine the strength of your personal craft. While this can create an imbalance, a group of several lower level ships should be able to be a match for a higher level ship so balance isn't as much a concern. OTHER additions as well would help balance this too. (See Below)

 

The Ilum Space Zone should be a fairly large area. Equivalent to a large planet for normal PvE play. except it also stretches up and down so that it is a 3D Cube to play in, not a 2D map with some slight Z axis changes.

 

Have it include numerous asteroids, destroyed capital ships, NPC Pirate vessels, capital ships, etc... These items are also 'self replenishing resource nodes'. In this way players can fly their ships through the 'Ilum Space Zone' and mine/recover materials for crafting. These materials come a little more frequently and in slightly larger quantities than planet bound resource nodes to encourage players to use the zone but there is also danger involved.

 

Modifications to present Ships: Add to each ship a 'resource' docking bay/storage facility. When you mine/gather resources with your ship they are transferred into this inventory space (which is separate from all your other inventory spaces) When this space is full you will need to dock at your sides maintenance/repair facilities. You can then transfer the materials into your normal inventory slots where they become protected and usable for crafting etc.

 

If your ship is 'destroyed' in the Ilum Space Zone the contents of this bay are lost. If you are destroyed due to the actions of another player (or multiple players) the MAJORITY of the contents of your resource bay are lost but a small percentage are added to the bays of the ship/s responsible for your destruction. Your NORMAL inventories/items are safe and would not be subject to this penalty.

 

Add 'Gunnery Stations' to player vessels so that you can either play solo OR you can invite friends on board your ship and they can man 'gunnery stations'. Having extra people aboard your ship would be an advantage because you essentially multiply your base ship weapons abilities across the number of gunnery stations being used. The Gunnery Station can only aim a set of weapons, and the ships owner does the flying. So a low level ship that takes 3 passengers (maximum) would have 4 times the normal firepower of a ship being flown solo as you have the ships owner piloting the vessel and firing a set of weapons and three gunners with their own individual targeting systems and their own view/perspective firing weapons. (Sole pilot fires the forward guns and also has missile control, Gunnery Stations would be for top/bottom/rear of the ship. Top and bottom have a 360 degree range they can fire in along their plane, rear arc has a 180 degree view)

 

Likely add some new 'upgrade' sections to each vessel. Maybe only on or two slots with LOTS more options for things to go into these slots. So people have to make choices and tailor their ship to their intended game-play in the Ilum Space Zone. Things like 'stealth' which removes a ship from the ships radar (can still be seen visually), ECM's that make missiles go awry, Expanded resource gathering cargo bay, etc.

 

What this does is open a new style of PvP for players, since the ships of the 'top tier' of player will all be relatively equal, it puts players on a more even footing. Lower level players can group together as either squadrons (multiple ships) or as gunboats (singleship/multiple firing solutions) to remain competitive.

 

By adding resource gathering in you create a system in which the game economy can be pushed forward as it is another easy way for players who are of a higher level to go gather resources for crafting, but to do so in a way that has some fun/danger elements added in.

 

I might also, as well, allow for the creation of space based 'War Zones' where you queue for space combat 8 on 8. There could be 'space battle' fights where it s just 8 on 8 and the spawn ship for each side and its a race to see which side scores more kills in a specified time. There could be objective based game-play as well, escorting an unarmed freighter from point A to Point B while the other side attempts to destroy the freighter, etc.

 

Lastly, when you create Guild Capital Ships, maybe allow a guild to create/accept a war zone invite where it is a capital ship vs a capital ship and the various guild members could also fly their individual smaller vessels against one another. (Same basic rules as normal space. Capital ship has 4 gunnery stations, one forward arc, one rear arc, one left arc one right arc .. instead of top and bottom) Designated leader flies the capital ship. Each capital ship has a nuber of 'fighter bays' that can be targeted and destroyed. As long as at least one fighter bay exists guild members can launch their personal ships and control them individually (no gunboats with multiple players in one ship) to join in the battle. These could be 8 v 8 16 v 16 or 32 v 32 battles.. When you create the 'queue' players from your guild join it as well and choose their assigned positions.. Helm, gunners 1 through 3, personal ships for the remaining slots... and when another guild queues up with the same size, warzone can begin.

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Space combat is an extra minigame to pass time in this game, if you say it's not what people have been expecting, that imo isn't true.. people knew what to expect from the space game before launch..

 

People knew from previous to launch what it was going to be, but prior to actually playing, the information provided gave a different impressions.

 

Additionally, people don;t like the little minigame as much as it certainly doesn't feel 'star warsy' and they could expand its use and people enjoyment of it by making it something a bit more than it is presently.

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I'm not saying they shouldn'tn expand it, there's plenty of ways to make it better, e.g. a co-op option.

But you'd be surprised how many people like it the way it is now, i for one love it as i only see it as a passing of time when i'm crafting or waiting for a queue, or just getting that last bit of xp when leveling.

In another thread i mentioned the space stuff from star trek online, and how people got lost with their space ship and took them hours to find out how to return from their little space roaming adventure.

Open space is one thing, but a lot of extra qq will come, whatever BW does, players will always find a stick to hit the with. I for one hope, when they do implement that secret space thingie, that they keep the current missions too, aside from that.

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oh, and on a side note, not starwarsy? imo the space combat that we have now is more starwarsy then a card game everyone is crying for here on the forums, i've seen the movies front and backwards soooo many times (ye i'm a freak :p) and in the movies i don't see people playing cards, i do see people space ships shooting other space ships and bases :p
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Space combat is an extra minigame to pass time in this game, if you say it's not what people have been expecting, that imo isn't true.. people knew what to expect from the space game before launch..

 

Nope, I didn't, I was expecting something along the lines of X-Wing/Tie Fighter, ie, not on rails. Apart from that, yes, it does fit in with the game well though.

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well, people in beta talked about it being on rails (starfox like), i never complained about it cuz i <3 that kinda games as a time passing, BUT i do understand that people expected something else, and there lies the problem, "expectations", I never have too high expectations (not for games, not for movies, not for anything, the less expectations you set for yourself, the less you can be disapointed), i never expected anything except for what I saw in beta, and i just loved beta, i was sold from the first minute, so then it comes down to personal taste.
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Good points. The best thing is, about my suggestion, that aspect of the space game would remain. So all the parts people do enjoy and play will still be available.

 

Also - This idea isn;t about making all space free, its about making it a zone (or maybe a couple zones) where players can go to have a more free flight game that also has aspects of PvP and crafting/resource gathering etc.

 

Then there would be the space fight warzones which are 'free space' as well but more arenas for PvP space combat.

 

The last bit about guild v Guild capital warship/fighter warfare is a pipedream but could be really fun.

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i do like that idea, but i guess we'll have to wait for those guild ships to actually arrive, tbh i can see myself flying a small tie fighter or xwing out of my guild ship battling some other guild and shooting at the fleet or some space station. i gotto stop dreaming :)
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I'd like to add to the OP's original idea, If a player is soloing space battle then their crew (companions) should man the turrets although their accuracy and fire power would not be as good as compared to another player manning the turret kinda like flashpoints replace missing players with a companion.
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I'd like to add to the OP's original idea, If a player is soloing space battle then their crew (companions) should man the turrets although their accuracy and fire power would not be as good as compared to another player manning the turret kinda like flashpoints replace missing players with a companion.

 

Thats actually a good idea and might fit in for a space mission legacy perk imo

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I like your Ideas man ! It's still amazing people shoot down the Idea of less restrictive space battles and world pvp in general . It's just in some peoples nature to go against what other people want just for no other reason than to be anti everything it's a very weird human behavior. I for one welcome anything that gives more options during game play.
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I'd like to add to the OP's original idea, If a player is soloing space battle then their crew (companions) should man the turrets although their accuracy and fire power would not be as good as compared to another player manning the turret kinda like flashpoints replace missing players with a companion.

 

This is a good idea. I also like the addition of making it a legacy perk you have to purchase on a per companion basis.

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Space combat is an extra minigame to pass time in this game, if you say it's not what people have been expecting, that imo isn't true.. people knew what to expect from the space game before launch..

 

Who cares what people were expecting. It's what people want. I WANT space. If any other star wars game were to come out with things that I want, guess what? Bye bye Bioware. I'll jump ship in a heart beat for a game more suited to what I want. This game is sorely lacking in world pvp incentive, space, player customization options (Including things like player cities of some sort), and much much more. Warhammer beats this game in world pvp hands down. There are much more pvp instances in Warhammer Bioware could take some notes from. Star Wars Galaxies did player cities fantastic. Also loved the craft system with the different factories and harvesters you could place. I'd say BW took some lessons from AoC from the initial voice over section on the newb island that proved how well voice quests work and they did do the whole game that way which does make it hella fun. The class quests here is great. I also like the mechanics but I will say, AoC has a better combat system imo. I love the combination fights for best results. Add some combat immersion into the game as well.

 

It's like this. I yearn for SWG when it first came out. A game like that would easily get me to leave Swtor. Imagine, if Sony rolled it back yet kept the new space expansion and beefed up their graphics while adding in voice overs. Game over Swtor, you'd be done for.

 

I'm not trying to completely bash Biowre. BW has done many wonderful things. But you'll hear it from all players who came from the original days of SWG that you missed the mark.

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Who cares what people were expecting. It's what people want. I WANT space. If any other star wars game were to come out with things that I want, guess what? Bye bye Bioware. I'll jump ship in a heart beat for a game more suited to what I want. This game is sorely lacking in world pvp incentive, space, player customization options (Including things like player cities of some sort), and much much more. Warhammer beats this game in world pvp hands down. There are much more pvp instances in Warhammer Bioware could take some notes from. Star Wars Galaxies did player cities fantastic. Also loved the craft system with the different factories and harvesters you could place. I'd say BW took some lessons from AoC from the initial voice over section on the newb island that proved how well voice quests work and they did do the whole game that way which does make it hella fun. The class quests here is great. I also like the mechanics but I will say, AoC has a better combat system imo. I love the combination fights for best results. Add some combat immersion into the game as well.

 

It's like this. I yearn for SWG when it first came out. A game like that would easily get me to leave Swtor. Imagine, if Sony rolled it back yet kept the new space expansion and beefed up their graphics while adding in voice overs. Game over Swtor, you'd be done for.

 

I'm not trying to completely bash Biowre. BW has done many wonderful things. But you'll hear it from all players who came from the original days of SWG that you missed the mark.

 

rant rant rant, expectations are everything, if you expect a game to be more then what's it's announced to be, it does matter. and what people want? welcome to life, you'll not always get what you want. i'm really getting tired of these negative comments. up till now i've always been understanding in my replies and comments in this forum, but you actually stepped on my toes, hard, with your attack here. so i'm going to give you a reply that i normally wouldn't make, but if you hate it - don't play it!

 

No world pvp? then try to do something about it 'yourself'. if people run away like chickens if they see someone form the opposite faction, then it's not BW's fault there is no world pvp, i know that i'm having alot of fun in the Black Hole area with the pvp fights we have there. and yet again there is the player housing that pops up, go play the sims, you can build multiple houses, decorate them, and do quests with your sims, let them work etc, maybe that is more your kinda game, oh wait, no, they don't have a flight simulator in it, too bad.

 

and about your comment, this isn't SWG, will never be, too bad for you guys who loved it, but don't come in here complain that this is a different game, go complain to the guys that shut down SWG.

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I'm certainly not in the SWG was the best MMO ever crowd. I was in the closed beta and the early game and just did not like it. It was arbitrary and silly to become a Jedi and while player housing/cities had their attraction they just didn't carry the game for me like they did others.

 

If you want to hard core roleplay being a moisture farmer, its easy enough to get your friends together and occupy some corner of tatooine. You don't really need additional tools to do that.

 

For me, I believe the future of MMO's is to make them fun and easy to play in short time chunks. But give people a reason to keep coming back once they have capped and running raids repeatedly just doesnt do it, which is why pvP has become such an important element in most every game.

 

But Warzones get tiresome as well, so see my other thread at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=530312 (pimp pimp) for some open world pvp 'ideas' and then this idea for more interaction/fun for the space game.

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While I am completely indifferent to the general idea of the 'free space' idea, especially from the whole "well SWG had it" perspective, I think it certainly has potential as an alternative endgame offering for PvE as well.

 

BioWare certainly didn't do itself any favors by pulling the standard engame solution off the shelf and implementing it without even the pretense of trying to add something of their own to it. Adding an alternative for something to do at the level cap would certainly spice things up. There are a number of ways they can go about the loot thing, other than the obvious, including things with guild capital ships (I'd be surprised if those don't happen before the implementation of this kind of space system). This could be as simple as some kind of currency/token to upgrade the guild ships or even buy bigger/cooler ships.

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As an old gamer who grew up with Xevius, the Atari 2600, Commodore 64 and good 'ole arcades in a mall, I rather like the space missions. They look great and are challenging as well. They play like the old school stuff and it's a refreshing change from the MMO gameplay.
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As an old gamer who grew up with Xevius, the Atari 2600, Commodore 64 and good 'ole arcades in a mall, I rather like the space missions. They look great and are challenging as well. They play like the old school stuff and it's a refreshing change from the MMO gameplay.

 

c64 and c128 ftw :)

I'm glad there's still someone sharing the feel i have about the space game :)

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