Know that Darth Vader indeed use Force Lightning (yeah, with help, but he indeed could use it).

Well it was actually Kinetite Vader used not lighting. But am sure that Splinter of the Mind's Eye is N-canon anyway, so moving on here..

Well it was actually Kinetite Vader used not lighting. But am sure that Splinter of the Mind's Eye is N-canon anyway, so moving on here..

Against Luke? Was lightning if I recall, with the help of an crystal. In the second novel of The Force Unleashed, I don't recall if he used it (with the help of the storm) against the secret apprentice or if he just used another Force Power.

Against Luke? Was lightning if I recall, with the help of an crystal. In the second novel of The Force Unleashed, I don't recall if he used it (with the help of the storm) against the secret apprentice or if he just used another Force Power.

It was Kinetite yes.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kinetite

As for TFU, he used Force Destruction. But anyway the Kinetite thing doesn't matter, that story is N-canon. Its not like he needs it anyway.

It was Kinetite yes.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kinetite

 

As for TFU, he used Force Destruction. But anyway the Kinetite thing doesn't matter, that story is N-canon. Its not like he needs it anyway.

It's just that in Star Wars The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader we have:

"as the battle wore on, Vader found himself breathing

hard through his respirator. But then, thanks to his proximity to the force-crystal he felt a sudden surge of the power of the dark side, allowing him to project lightning from his fingertips for the first time in his life. He hurled

Force-energized lightning at Skywalker, but his young opponent deflected the blast."

I don't recall reading kinetite in the book, I'll read again (after finishing the trilogy of Bane and Darth Plagueis again). But well, even so, I like the name, know any other who have used Kinetite for me to know more about this?

It's just that in Star Wars The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader we have:

 

"as the battle wore on, Vader found himself breathing

hard through his respirator. But then, thanks to his proximity to the force-crystal he felt a sudden surge of the power of the dark side, allowing him to project lightning from his fingertips for the first time in his life. He hurled

Force-energized lightning at Skywalker, but his young opponent deflected the blast."

 

I don't recall reading kinetite in the book, I'll read again (after finishing the trilogy of Bane and Darth Plagueis again). But well, even so, I like the name, know any other who have used Kinetite for me to know more about this?

Well then those are conflicting sources which have yet to be resolved cause Vader can't do Force Lighting so....meh. As for other users? Nope can't recall. Though noting its just some Force Power of some kind.

But again, it doesn't matter as Vader doesn't have the crystal here nor does he really need it.

He lost his power sure...but its never stated in what way he lost it. Its the whole him having the power within, but never realizing it.

 

Anyway...you got it the other way around, Malgus is pretty much an exact copy of Vader only difference is..Vader is better then Malgus in every aspect. Has Malgus taken on 8 Jedi Knights/Masters at once before? Has he collapsed buildings and survived for days under them? Has he ever willed himself back to life? Destroy a base on his own? Moved starships? Survive huge explosions? Crushed enormous droids and knock over huge trees? Take on a Jedi that could teleport/phase through objects?

 

I can post evidence of all of this, if you like.

Lumiya stated to Jacen Solo that cybernetic replacements impeded the force and because of Darth Vader cybernetic he could never be a true Lord of the Sith. So here’s my evidence of why Vader is not and could never be as powerful as he should have been.

Now let’s look at you arguments. “Has Malgus taken on 8 Jedi Knights/Masters at once before?” Malgus has taken on several Jedi’s before but I don’t know if he ever took on 8 solo or not. “Has he collapsed buildings and survived for days under them?” Yes. “Has he ever willed himself back to life?” I don’t think so, good point. “Destroy a base on his own?” Yes. “Moved starships?” that would be a no. you got me on that one. “Survive huge explosions?” Yes. “Crushed enormous droids and knock over huge trees?” No, but I have no reason to believe this is outside his power. “Take on a Jedi that could teleport/phase through objects?” No.

You are making good argument and I must say it does look like Vader is the stronger, but I would like to know you reference material?

Darth Vader is basically a joke as well as every jedi he faced in all his time.

It would be a tie between Bane and Malgus

Darth Vader is basically a joke as well as every jedi he faced in all his time.

 

It would be a tie between Bane and Malgus

Except for him becoming 80% of the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. You know, the same Sith Lord that is the culmination of Darth Bane's Rule of Two.

Or how about him killing Count Dooku (THE master of Makashi)? How about Cin Drallig? What about killing half a dozen Jedi Masters single handedly? What about him being called the best Jedi Killer of all time?

But other than that he's a total joke.

LoL there is no contest vader is the stronger one. while is plausable to assume that the others could content with vader, from what we know Vader is still stronger and is stil the chosen one its best not to forget.

I find it odd that the argument of having or not cybernetics is even a factor on vader being a sith lord or not. As if had anything to do with it.

Lumiya stated to Jacen Solo that cybernetic replacements impeded the force and because of Darth Vader cybernetic he could never be a true Lord of the Sith. So here’s my evidence of why Vader is not and could never be as powerful as he should have been.

Vader was a sith lord the end, allthough he was more then sith or jedi he was the chosen one.

Whataver Lumiya likes to think, not to mention vader would end her quick most probably.

Except for him becoming 80% of the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. You know, the same Sith Lord that is the culmination of Darth Bane's Rule of Two.

 

Or how about him killing Count Dooku (THE master of Makashi)? How about Cin Drallig? What about killing half a dozen Jedi Masters single handedly? What about him being called the best Jedi Killer of all time?

 

But other than that he's a total joke.

The historian has spoken

/THREAD

Edit: IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK thanks for the lolz Aubere

Lumiya stated to Jacen Solo that cybernetic replacements impeded the force and because of Darth Vader cybernetic he could never be a true Lord of the Sith. So here’s my evidence of why Vader is not and could never be as powerful as he should have been.

 

Now let’s look at you arguments. “Has Malgus taken on 8 Jedi Knights/Masters at once before?” Malgus has taken on several Jedi’s before but I don’t know if he ever took on 8 solo or not. “Has he collapsed buildings and survived for days under them?” Yes. “Has he ever willed himself back to life?” I don’t think so, good point. “Destroy a base on his own?” Yes. “Moved starships?” that would be a no. you got me on that one. “Survive huge explosions?” Yes. “Crushed enormous droids and knock over huge trees?” No, but I have no reason to believe this is outside his power. “Take on a Jedi that could teleport/phase through objects?” No.

 

You are making good argument and I must say it does look like Vader is the stronger, but I would like to know you reference material?

Alright then here comes the evidence...

===========

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5131/blz10.jpg

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3142/blz11s.jpg

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3103/blz13.jpg

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1527/blz14.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4632/blz15.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6526/blz16.jpg

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8049/blz17.jpg

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7245/blz18.jpg

Pretty much it of the fight, the other Jedi were killed when the 501st came in. One of the Jedi also had a Cortosis blade. (This was early post-Mustafar.)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6517/extinction11.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7144/duel1x.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4545/duel2z.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9426/duel4.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6159/duel5d.jpg

(other two scans won't show for some reason..)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7803/duel8.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1435/duel9.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1411/duel10.jpg

(last won't show, but he toppled a giant tree on her.) This is the Dark Woman, former Jedi Master and the one who could teleport.

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2316/10240351.jpg

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3910/48037037.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3075/72859246.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4034/21513003.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8827/72338157p.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8200/59349372i.jpg

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2037/55795374.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9201/50824626.jpg

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/405/57368295.jpg

Beats Celesta, who had the Talisman of Mur and said Ancient Sith Lord acknowledge that Vader was very powerful. This is the same woman, that fought Darth Krayt.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

TK lifts a Y-wing, blows up the base, survives the explosion. Same instance of him taking out the entire base.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

The droid bit.

But Vader merely stood like a statue, his blade angled toward the ground until the very instant the two Jedi unleashed their assault. Then, as the three blades joined in scatterings of dazzling light and grating static sounds, he moved.Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade.

 

Time and again the two Jedi Knights attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry, and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and Kulka's strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed. Toying with the Jedi, he grazed Forte on the left shoulder, then on the right thigh; Kulka, he pierced lightly in the abdomen, then shaved away the flesh on the right side of the Ho'Din's face.

 

Rise of Darth Vader.

Straight to the point.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139214-new_picture__110_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139121-new_picture__125_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139149-new_picture__152_.jpg

Moves his blade so fast, that it creates afterimages.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139108-new_picture__113_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139109-new_picture__114_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139110-new_picture__115_.jpg

Surviving an explosion at point blank range.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297113-new_picture_super.jpg

Willing himself back to life.

=======

Also this is all Vader still before his prime in dueling. I could post more but I need to go run FPs so later.

Alright then here comes the evidence...

===========

 

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5131/blz10.jpg

 

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3142/blz11s.jpg

 

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3103/blz13.jpg

 

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1527/blz14.jpg

 

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4632/blz15.jpg

 

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6526/blz16.jpg

 

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8049/blz17.jpg

 

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7245/blz18.jpg

 

Pretty much it of the fight, the other Jedi were killed when the 501st came in. One of the Jedi also had a Cortosis blade.

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6517/extinction11.jpg

 

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7144/duel1x.jpg

 

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4545/duel2z.jpg

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9426/duel4.jpg

 

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6159/duel5d.jpg

 

(other two scans won't show for some reason..)

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7803/duel8.jpg

 

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1435/duel9.jpg

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1411/duel10.jpg

 

(last won't show, but he toppled a giant tree on her.) This is the Dark Woman, former Jedi Master and the one who could teleport.

 

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2316/10240351.jpg

 

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3910/48037037.jpg

 

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3075/72859246.jpg

 

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4034/21513003.jpg

 

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8827/72338157p.jpg

 

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8200/59349372i.jpg

 

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2037/55795374.jpg

 

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9201/50824626.jpg

 

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/405/57368295.jpg

 

Beats Celesta, who had the Talisman of Mur and said Ancient Sith Lord acknowledge that Vader was very powerful. This is the same woman, that fought Darth Krayt.

 

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

TK lifts a Y-wing, blows up the base, survives the explosion. Same instance of him taking out the entire base.

 

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

The droid bit.

 

 

 

Straight to the point.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139214-new_picture__110_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139121-new_picture__125_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139149-new_picture__152_.jpg

 

Moves his blade so fast, that it creates afterimages.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139108-new_picture__113_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139109-new_picture__114_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139110-new_picture__115_.jpg

 

Surviving an explosion at point blank range.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297113-new_picture_super.jpg

 

Willing himself back to life.

=======

 

Also this is all Vader still before his prime in dueling. I could post more but I need to go run FPs so later.

The links are strong with this one.

...

Was talking after he put the suit on,anyway....

He would be neutralised in the first second,because Bane's lightning would destroy his mechanical life support system,and he will be left to die in agony on the ground,while Bane and Malgus fight it off.

The Vader fan club mentality is strong here.

Was talking after he put the suit on,anyway....

Doesn't matter because he grew stronger after being put in the suit.

And FYI: the dozen masters was post-Mustafar.

He would be neutralised in the first second,because Bane's lightning would destroy his mechanical life support system,and he will be left to die in agony on the ground,while Bane and Malgus fight it off.

You sure about that? Because he has been subjected to some pretty powerful lightning (TFU2) and didn't die. He only died because he was blasted by the most powerful Force lightning from the most powerful Sith Lord. Bane is not the most powerful Sith Lord ever and doesn't have the most powerful lightning ever.

You sure about that? Because he has been subjected to some pretty powerful lightning (TFU2) and didn't die.

i knew someone would come up with that.

That's just gameplay mechanics/scenery speaking.

Besides... TFU 2 is hardly a paragon of what can be considered canon.Quite the contrary.

i knew someone would come up with that.

That's just gameplay mechanics/scenery speaking.

Besides... TFU 2 is hardly a paragon of what can be considered canon.Quite the contrary.

I haven't read the novel in a long time, but I'll disregard TFU for this argument.

In ROTJ Vader's suit was 'shorted out' and he still made it from the throne room down to the hangar. This was after giving up the Dark Side (what kept him going) and suffering from Sidious' Force Lightning. And no, Bane's lightning will not short his suit out (unless you believe Bane to be as strong as the likes of Galen Marek and Darth Sidious, which I believe you do). Vader has the greatest resistance to Force Lightning out of any character. He modified his suit to resist it.

Vader will win this battle just as he has the majority of other battles. In lightsaber combat he was remarked as being an unstoppable machine, capable of predicting an enemy's moves and countering with deadly precision. He has matched or defeated some of the best of all time.

In Force Power, while he never reached his true potential, Sidious feared him for a time. Prior to his transformation to the suited Darth Vader, he was able to counter Obi-Wan Kenobi in a contest of Force Push strength. Kenobi was remarked as having the strongest Force Push in the Order. Vader matched it and recovered from the draw quicker.

If all else fails (which it won't) he can always outlast them. Vader is THE Juggernaut. An unbreakable will that allows him to push through even the greatest of injuries (like losing an arm). Bane and Malgus would not be capable of doing the same. They can't outlast Vader.

Didn't Vader willingly stab through himself with his own lightsaber to kill the Darth Maul doppelganger, I think the same move ruined some of his life support by the way? And talking about the life support, Vader was able to survive for a while without it. Vader is also a result of the rule of two (started by Bane) which states that each person in the line is stronger than the one before him/her, or supposed to be anyway. But Bane was from a millennium before Vader (which also in that time provided the greatest jedis of the time), AND Vader has killed many many many knights/masters which should hone his skills quite a bit. Vader held back on Luke, think about it, the person who has fought hundreds(?) of jedi losing to someone who only started training like a year before and has had no saber experience at all? I'm sorry but either Vader was holding back (as logic suggests) or he truly was weak and had to die anyway (highly unlikely). He also fought Galen Marek and despite what everyone believes, Starkiller was as good a duelist as Vader (he matched him after all) and he would've died had Marek not sacrificed himself.

Vader was created by the force, so in a duel with force powers only, there's no question on who'd win.

(unless you believe Bane to be as strong as the likes of Galen Marek and Darth Sidious, which I believe you do)

Galen Marek's character was created to fit a vision that the developers had for a game in which you can use the force in a flashy and impressive way to fit a fast paced console action gameplay.So basically i personally am not taking him seriously.

And obviously Sidious is more powerful than Bane.That's beside the point.

* * *

Vader is too clumsy and a broken excuse of a sith to match Bane in his prime imo,who is a proper full- fledged Sith Lord.

Don't forget that Bane was taught lightsaber combat by probably the best lightsaber master ever- Kas'im .There is nothing Vader can do to surpsie Bane in lightsaber combat,specially because Vader is using a single blade.Bane was also extremely agile and fast in combat.Combine this with his incredible physical force,enough to match Vader's in the suit and his full access to all manner of force abilities including force lightning.The Sith'ari is not to be underestimated.

Vader didn't function as a proper sith lord and sith aprentice after he got his powers and potential cut in more than half,he was something like Maul,just a tool for Sidious.Obviously he was a very powerful sith lord and all that,but againts Bane,?comon...

The fanboyism and worship towards all manner of movie era characters in the ''STAR WARS'' section in this forum is very very amusing.

Galen Marek's character was created to fit a vision that the developers had for a game in which you can use the force in a flashy and impressive way to fit a fast paced console action gameplay.So basically i personally am not taking him seriously.

And obviously Sidious is more powerful than Bane.That's beside the point.

* * *

Vader is too clumsy and a broken excuse of a sith to match Bane in his prime imo,who is a proper full- fledged Sith Lord.

Don't forget that Bane was taught lightsaber combat by probably the best lightsaber master ever- Kas'im .There is nothing Vader can do to surpsie Bane in lightsaber combat,specially because Vader is using a single blade.Bane was also was also extremely agile and fast in combat.Combine this with his incredible physical force,enough to match Vader's in the suit and his full access to all manner of force abilities including force lightning.The Sith'ari is not to be underestimated.

Vader didn't function as a proper sith lord and sith aprentice after he got his powers and potential cut in more than half,he was something like Maul,just a tool for Sidious.Obviously he was a very powerful sith lord and all that,but againts Bane,?comon...

 

The fanboyism and worship towards all manner of movie era characters in the ''STAR WARS'' section in this forum is very very amusing.

Just like the famboyism towards rip-offs.

Garen Marek was indeed powerful, the people just want to see the game, not the novel per se.

Again, even if Darth Vader failed in reveal his full potential, he was 80% of the Most Powerful Sith Lord to EVER live, Darth Sidious. And the former keeps he around because he knew that if Vader could take control over his emotions, he would fulfill his destiny as unlocking his full potential of The Chosen One from within.

You forget that in his time, Darth Bane was all that, but millenia have passed, the Jedi Order and the Sith Order turn into something no one could ever imagine, just like that Darth Sidious would become what he are even if Darth Bane failed with the Rule of Two. YOU have to take Darth Vader seriously. He was taught, as a Jedi before, for one of the most powerful Jedi of all Era (and the finest Jedi in lightsaber combat). He made a mix with ALL know forms as Darth Vader (ALL forms, forms that your Darth Bane never know was possible). Darth Sidious, the man who was a beast with lightsaber, was his Master, I have to say more?

Lightning? Darth Vader keep upgrading his suit that Lightning could do nothing that he couldn't handle (briging him to his knee, not killing him), see the NOVEL of TFU, not the game, the novel who is more canon than you can ever imagine.

Don't think you know Darth Vader, if that was the case, you would know all this. You would know how faster he can be, how strong he could turn alone with his rage, his force powers so pure and lethal against who could try to stand in his way.

Darth Bane was more than a match agains the others before him, he was the most powerful, but even him couldn't handle his apprentice, that was the way of the Rule of Two. Darth Vader was more powerful than Darth Maul and Darth Tyrannus before him, just like they already are much more than Darth Bane could imagine.

The Sith'ari isn't like The Chosen One. The prophecy says that the Sith'ari would destroy and rebuild the Sith Order in something much more powerful, that he indeed did. Even with Anakin/Vader failing in fulfill his full potential, don't just try to make Sith'ari be like Chosen One in raw of Power. Darth Tyrannus alone is more powerful than you can give him credits for.

try to make Sith'ari be like Chosen One in raw of Power.

Raw power is the last thing i associate with Vader.He is just a cyborg that adapted his lightsaber technique to a clumsy one but with more physical strenght behind the strikes.Everything else in the Vader novel is nothing new under the sun and easily countered by a proper full fledged sith lord like Bane.

''the chosen one'' after Mustafar doesn't mean anything in terms of abilities and power other than bringing balance to the force.

* * *

How exactly do you people measure that Vader reached 80% of Sidious's power is something i wonder.I personally don't recognise measurements of power in ''canon'' statements.Someone said so is not an argument.

If there is an official statement somewhere that Vader reached 80%(which i personally don't recognise) i am sure it does not mean Sidious's power as it is shown in the EU after the movies,but up untill his death on the second Deathstar in rotj.

Raw power is the last thing i associate with Vader.He is just a cyborg that adapted his lightsaber technique to a clumsy one but more physical strenght behind the strikes.Everything else in the Vader novel is nothing new under the sun and easily countered by a proper full fledged sith lord like Bane.

''the chosen one'' after Mustafar doesn't mean anything in terms of abilities and power other than bringing balance to the force.

* * *

How exactly do you people measure that Vader reached 80% of Sidious's power is something i wonder.

Because we see that in the lore, we just don't make an character we like more powerful than he really was.

Because isn't just me, fanboys, or the best Historian who know much about star wars. We follow CANON, something you and many people just dislike because this ruins yours dreams. You need to just live with that, like it or not, this is Life. The people who says that are the Creator of the Universe (God himself), we see it in the Datacron of the Universe.

So, if you wanna keep in your illusions, fine by me, but don't think I'll just let people like you spread things like this just because you can't accept something right before your eyes, something that YOU can't change.

The saddest thing in life, is that. It's see people who can't deal with the truth because they dislike it. But I'm happy, that they can only do nothing to change it and keeps triyng and showing who they really are.

One more thing, again, you don't know Darth Vader, it's just better for you to keep triyng to make Darth Bane looks more powerful, because you don't know what you're talking about Vader and lightsaber combat/force powers.

 

The saddest thing in life, is that. It's see people who can't deal with the truth because they dislike it.

First of all this is not math.There isn't any objective truth here.

There are 2 kinds of outlooks on the subject.

The first is the hardcore movie point of view,in which the characters there are gods and everyone else is secondary.This usually happens when you are an old timer and Star Wars fan for many years.

The second outlook is if you are not introduced into Star Wars by the movies and actually look at all Star Wars characters equally.Then you get a more realistic view on the movie characters without the rose coloured glasses of worship.

Alright then here comes the evidence...

===========

 

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5131/blz10.jpg

 

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3142/blz11s.jpg

 

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3103/blz13.jpg

 

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1527/blz14.jpg

 

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4632/blz15.jpg

 

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6526/blz16.jpg

 

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8049/blz17.jpg

 

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7245/blz18.jpg

 

Pretty much it of the fight, the other Jedi were killed when the 501st came in. One of the Jedi also had a Cortosis blade. (This was early post-Mustafar.)

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6517/extinction11.jpg

 

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7144/duel1x.jpg

 

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4545/duel2z.jpg

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9426/duel4.jpg

 

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6159/duel5d.jpg

 

(other two scans won't show for some reason..)

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7803/duel8.jpg

 

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1435/duel9.jpg

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1411/duel10.jpg

 

(last won't show, but he toppled a giant tree on her.) This is the Dark Woman, former Jedi Master and the one who could teleport.

 

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2316/10240351.jpg

 

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3910/48037037.jpg

 

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3075/72859246.jpg

 

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4034/21513003.jpg

 

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8827/72338157p.jpg

 

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8200/59349372i.jpg

 

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2037/55795374.jpg

 

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9201/50824626.jpg

 

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/405/57368295.jpg

 

Beats Celesta, who had the Talisman of Mur and said Ancient Sith Lord acknowledge that Vader was very powerful. This is the same woman, that fought Darth Krayt.

 

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

TK lifts a Y-wing, blows up the base, survives the explosion. Same instance of him taking out the entire base.

 

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8653/starwarsadventureswillo.jpg

 

The droid bit.

 

 

 

Straight to the point.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139214-new_picture__110_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139121-new_picture__125_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139149-new_picture__152_.jpg

 

Moves his blade so fast, that it creates afterimages.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139108-new_picture__113_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139109-new_picture__114_.jpg

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139110-new_picture__115_.jpg

 

Surviving an explosion at point blank range.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297113-new_picture_super.jpg

 

Willing himself back to life.

=======

 

Also this is all Vader still before his prime in dueling. I could post more but I need to go run FPs so later.

Good job my friend, I haven’t seen these comic before and it does make you argument.

This is interesting. May as well jump in. However I'm not just going to list abilities because that is entirely pointless if I don't compare them. So here goes.

Lightsaber/Combat Abilities

Vader: One of the greatest fighters of his time Vader and achieve mastery over Djem So - mixed with elements of all other forms including Makashi and Soresu - his attack was extremely powerful and overwhelming with even the most basic of strikes capable of disarming. His defensive is also just as good, with his mastery of Djem So covering both spheres and has been shown to be effective against multiple lightsaber wielding opponents. However due to his suit he lacked mobility, although he compensated this with tactical ingenuity.

Malgus: Much like Vader, he is an infamous Jedi hunter. And likely uses a hybrid Djem So form much like Vader, he also possessed extremely high mobility, overcoming the form's primary weakness. He was also skilled in disarming opponents and mixing his attacks with unarmed strikes. He combined his skill with the lightsaber with tactical ingenuity, preempting attacks and manipulating duels in his favour. His lightsaber attacks were fueled with pent up dark side rage, which made each attack potentially devastating. In terms of defensive techniques, he is highly proficient, able to hunker down and hold out against consecutive attacks.

Unsurprisingly, these guys are pretty much mirror images of each other and equally matched in many fields. They are both extremely proficient in lightsaber attack and defensive and while Malgus' abilities were augmented with dark side rage, Vader's were augmented by his suit. They both have tough armor and use tactical ingenuity to turn the tide of battle. And while Vader is likely the better duelist Malgus has the edge in two areas - his rage is far more effective in bolstering his abilities and his excellent mobility is a perfect counter to Vader's lack of it. Therefore in terms of lightsaber combat, Malgus gets the edge.

Physical Capabilities

Vader: Thanks to his suit his mobility was highly hampered, however it also augmented his strength and stamina. Painkillers meant he was also highly resistant to pain and his suit could survive all kinds of damage e.g. blaster bolts, flamethrowers, explosions, hard vacuums etc. He was however incapable of surviving for long without his breathing apparatus. His only weakness is force lighting/electrical discharges.*

Malgus: He is extremely strong and agile, and his breathing apparatus is largely unnecessary, although after his defeat on Alderaan he relied heavily on internal cybernetics in repair his body. However his stamina and endurance is extremely high, seeing as after being buried alive and in requirement of extensive medical attention and cybernetic augmentation to survive he fought and bested a pair of Jedi. Oh, and he survive being buried alive. Force lighting also had no effect on his cybernetics, which likely only augmented his abilities.

Both have solid armour, and extremely high endurance and stamina levels thanks to personal abilities and cybernetics. And although Vader's suit is all that more endurable, it is weak against Force lighting, an ability Malgus is proficient in, and Vader is also more reliant on it - meaning that any damage done to the suit is going to be all that more destructive. However Vader has come off far better than Malgus has when recieving devastating attacks, and can simply take more punishment - Vader gets the edge, just.

Force Powers

Vader: He was highly proficient in incorporating force based attacks into his fighting style, he is also capable in extensive telekinesis and tutaminis able to break through the Force shields of Jedi opponents. However thanks to his prosthetic arms he is incapable of Force lightning and thanks to the loss of organic tissue his Force abilities are limited.

Malgus: Malgus was extremely skilled at augmenting his abilities with the Force, performing supernatural speed, agility and strength. His telekinetic abilities were also profound and his often incorporated them into his lightsaber attacks, or chain them together - much like Vader his is more than capable of breaking though the Force shields of Jedi opponents. However unlike Vader, he is highly skilled in application of Force lightning, capable of killing Jedi instantly. He was also capable of using Force deflection to protect himself from harm or simply cocooning himself in the Force. Malgus was also exceptionally skilled in channeling his anger, able to conjure powerful Force maelstroms which protected the user and attack the enemy - the pinnacle of this ability was the Force storm.

Malgus's Force abilities were vicious, brutal and various. The third quality being the most important, he is pretty much equally matched in other respects but his Force lightning is a powerful ability Vader does not possess and is non-resistant to. His defensive capabilities in the Force arguably outclass Vader's whom only seems to rely on his suit and his lightsaber force defense, while Malgus often uses the Force to create bubbles of protection around him. Therefore Malgus gets the edge.

Verdict

Malgus wins, the fighting will be intense and drawn out but Malgus possesses the skill to hold out and counter Vader's lightsaber abilities and telekinetic attacks. He has high proficiency in Djem So, high mobility and tactical ingenuity, allowing him to more successfully evade, counter and exploit Vader's attacks. He is also more than capable to absorb any Force based attacks Vader can dish out. However given Vader's almost identical skills they are at a relative impasse. What gives Malgus victory is his agility and Force abilties, as the fight countinues Malgus will have multiple opportunities to draw away from Vader, or push him away, in order to deal a devastating Force lightning based attack. Several consecutive attacks of this kind will be enough to wear Vader down and deal the killing blow. I may assess Bane's abilities at a later date, but I think both Vader and Malgus outclass him.

*Despite what everyone says, I do believe this is a weakness. I don't have TFU II novel but I'm pretty sure events happened differently to how they were portrayed. Wookieepedia claims Starkiller was disarmed but he convinced Vader to lower his defenses before unleashing Force lightning which subdued him immediately. It was also Force lightning which damaged his suit beyond repair above Endor and then

You must understand the context... and to realize the diference of a character silly belief and the actual plot.

Vader was a sith lord the end, allthough he was more then sith or jedi he was the chosen one.

Whataver Lumiya likes to think, not to mention vader would end her quick most probably.

So you are going to dismiss this as opinion even though Lumiya also had cybernetic and knows from experience what she is talking about?