/Signed

The class stories are the best part of this game by far. Without them it will die. When I unsubscribed I didn't see that you could put "not enough class stories" as a reason or I would have. Instead I think I picked other and wrote in need more class stories.

/signed

Makeb was great with its large scale concept and trying to tailor some dialogue so it could work for each class... but it wasn't enough. It should be the other way around: individual class stories tailoring themselves so it works together in one larger plot.

I don't post on these forums. I am posting here because class stories are what make this game for me. I gave up on 50-55 after about three levels to return to class arcs that I haven't played yet because Makeb was an empty, soulless shell. When I run out of class stories this game will be over.

Make more of them, even if it is only small side missions woven into worlds arcs.

Yes! New classstories! Gimme! Would love to see Darths Zashs Return in the Inquisitor Storyline!!

/thumbsup

/signed

Seattle Cantina Tour Discussion Transcription. There are relevant comments about the class story process.

http://ootinicast.com/2013/09/community-cantina-seattle-31-august-2013/

Seattle Cantina Tour Discussion Transcription. There are relevant comments about the class story process.

 

http://ootinicast.com/2013/09/community-cantina-seattle-31-august-2013/

Can you make revisitable the many wonderful places that are never revisited, as in class stories?

"Not on radar to make them revisitable. This is because their world-builders did “unholy things” to make those cool places playable for the one class story. Also in many cases the cool places get visited multiple times with changes, like destruction. More actively they are looking at making cool places for role-players to meet at (guild meetings, weddings, etc.)"

Will we ever see (examples given of NPCs from class stories) in the game again?

"For NPCs, they are asking around internally “who would you like to see again?” He suggested for interested players to start a thread on this to give them feedback, as it is the right time for it. He did say that if an NPC died in any version of a class story it would be unlikely for them to bring them back."

When will we ever add more class story?

"(Schubert takes a quick poll; most people liked the Makeb story. This apparently confirmed his suspicions.) From their point of view, the Makeb story was successful. And actually one of the reasons it was successful was because it was NOT a class-based story. Instead of having to come up with multiple reasons why different types of characters would go to Makeb (artifacts, military secrets, etc.) they could focus on making one very good story with slightly different takes for each class. This made Makeb both a better story and more epic (due to not having to do eight full versions of it.) They are looking at taking the basic Makeb model in future and expanding on its emphasis of class differences. How would Luke Skywalker handle this problem vs. Darth Vader? They might go back to the class story model, but it would be hugely ambitious."

~

Those are all the comments I could see and I don't see much on the Class Story Creation Process. Could you point them out, Andryah?

When will we ever add more class story?[/b]

"(Schubert takes a quick poll; most people liked the Makeb story. This apparently confirmed his suspicions.) From their point of view, the Makeb story was successful. And actually one of the reasons it was successful was because it was NOT a class-based story. Instead of having to come up with multiple reasons why different types of characters would go to Makeb (artifacts, military secrets, etc.) they could focus on making one very good story with slightly different takes for each class. This made Makeb both a better story and more epic (due to not having to do eight full versions of it.) They are looking at taking the basic Makeb model in future and expanding on its emphasis of class differences. How would Luke Skywalker handle this problem vs. Darth Vader? They might go back to the class story model, but it would be hugely ambitious."

 

 

~

Those are all the comments I could see and I don't see much on the Class Story Creation Process. Could you point them out, Andryah?

I did not say the entire Cantina event centered on class story.

The quote above actually says a lot.. if you take time to dissect it and analyze it.

1) Clearly.. this is an ROI issue first and foremost for them. Coupled with the fact that for the most part Makeb was a success in their eyes and in players eyes.

2) They feel they get more ROI from going with planet arcs with some tie-ins with classes... and so they want to do more tie-ins to classes in the future.. while not returning to class story only arcs.

3) Does not mean they will never do class based arcs again.. just that the ROI is not there right now as the effort for the reward is simply too high.

I know it's not what you and some others want to hear.. but it does make sense and it is a practical approach for them to take.

The thing the Cantina comments from Seattle make clear to me is that some things in this game were designed in the beginning without adequate forethought as to how easy they would be to build upon and expand in the future. In other words.. there are things they would love to do for players but the game structure as it stands now simply does not support the return on the effort. TL;DR bad design up front, resulted in poor reuse later on for even basic things like ship customization, story arcs, even some PvP desires. They will be spending years undoing some of the bad choices made during original game implementation.. such that they can do things that to us appear of obvious value but are extremely labor intensive to do as it stands today.

I did not say the entire Cantina event centered on class story.

I never said you did. I said those were the only comments I could find.

Also, ROI? I assume that means "return of investment" rather than "Republic of Ireland"?

As to people enjoying Makeb over class stories, there might be some, but I still feel Bioware: Austin could do well to have a more accessible dialogue than assuming that all of us can make it to Canada.

Or the US. Wherever Seattle is.

Makeb was not a success for me. I took my Commando through in March. It's now September and my Sage has tried a few times to do the story, if only for the money and the basic coms. But I've seen it all already on Pub side. Every single quest. There's nothing new. Why would I do it again once I've done it already?

Players have had these same complaints with planet story arcs and side quests already.

No unique class story is no fun. I hate leveling an alt through pvp and flashpoints because I can't stand to do Hoth again for the fifth time. It puts an expiration date on the game.

"(Schubert takes a quick poll; most people liked the Makeb story. This apparently confirmed his suspicions.) From their point of view, the Makeb story was successful. And actually one of the reasons it was successful was because it was NOT a class-based story. "

They need to change one word there. Makeb was a success DESPITE not being a class-based story, not BECAUSE it wasn't.

A lot of people bought the mini-expansion for access to lvl 55, endgame and top tier crafting, and let's face it, some story at that time was way better than no story. Purchasing the expansion felt like a hail Mary pass at keeping the game from going under. I personally found the actual Makeb story to be underwhelming and have tremendous trouble getting up the enthusiasm to bring alts through it. (A big part of my appointment is Isotope 5 itself. Super amazing powerful world changing anything is just lame. It's like the Mary Sue of the inanimate!) Since they are hell bent to continue down this path, they really need to step up their game and make any new planet arcs interesting enough with enough class flavor to be worth going through more than once.

THERE IS NO MONEY IN THE BANK FOR CLASS STORIES!

There's really nothing I can say except that. If you can convince 500,000 of your closest pals to start paying $15 a month for more class story, go ahead. At the moment, they can't afford it with the income they are getting from the game.

THERE IS NO MONEY IN THE BANK FOR CLASS STORIES!

 

There's really nothing I can say except that. If you can convince 500,000 of your closest pals to start paying $15 a month for more class story, go ahead. At the moment, they can't afford it with the income they are getting from the game.

By EA/ BW's indications this game is making at least 7.5 million a month off subs alone. I'll never understand how some of you scream incessantly about how they have no money, it's just not true. BW doesn't need another half a million subs. Before launch they said they'd be able to keep this game running and content flowing with half a million subs, which is what we have now. And that's not counting a single dollar that comes from the CM.

Go to any major MMO site and the main complaints you'll see about SWTOR will be 1) terrible space system and 2) class stories that haven't been expanded since before launch. If they were to launch a proper expansion that expanded every class' story we'd see a substantial amount of people purchase it.

If you mean to say it won't be a quick and easy buck for BW I agree, and that's why they won't do it, but to say they wouldn't break even (or that they don't even have the money to start) is just laughable. BW is just trying to do the minimum amount of work for max profit.

By EA/ BW's indications this game is making at least 7.5 million a month off subs alone. I'll never understand how some of you scream incessantly about how they have no money, it's just not true. BW doesn't need another half a million subs. Before launch they said they'd be able to keep this game running and content flowing with half a million subs, which is what we have now. And that's not counting a single dollar that comes from the CM.

 

Go to any major MMO site and the main complaints you'll see about SWTOR will be 1) terrible space system and 2) class stories that haven't been expanded since before launch. If they were to launch a proper expansion that expanded every class' story we'd see a substantial amount of people purchase it.

 

If you mean to say it won't be a quick and easy buck for BW I agree, and that's why they won't do it, but to say they wouldn't break even (or that they don't even have the money to start) is just laughable. BW is just trying to do the minimum amount of work for max profit.

Totally agree here. Makeb was decent on the Imperial side, rather boring on the Republic side. They are really boring to do more than once or at most twice. I've leveled other alts to 55 doing daily missions instead (pays for the costs of 5 levels and upgrades).

What makes SWTOR great are the class stories and setting.

It should be possible to hire more folks and put story chapters on the CM. The remaining subscriber base is loyal to the game and would surely buy them. I know everyone has a different price point, but I would certainly pay way more than the $10 mini-expansion, which was probably sold at such a low price just to keep folks playing and buying CM packs/items.

One argument the devs may have a point on is not everyone has played through the current class stories. I've only done 5, so perhaps it's not fair to demand more without finishing the rest (enjoying a 6th now).

That said, the class stories are why I enjoy this game and have been a subscriber since launch. Without them, I really have no incentive to keep playing. Daily missions get tedious, I'm looking forward to arenas but PvP is not something SWTOR puts much focus on generally (which is a shame, imo, because the WZs are great), and high-end raiding is not for everybody. I would even guess most of the player-base does not clear the operations that are regularly produced, especially the HM and NiM modes.

 

When will we ever add more class story?

"(Schubert takes a quick poll; most people liked the Makeb story. This apparently confirmed his suspicions.) From their point of view, the Makeb story was successful. And actually one of the reasons it was successful was because it was NOT a class-based story. Instead of having to come up with multiple reasons why different types of characters would go to Makeb (artifacts, military secrets, etc.) they could focus on making one very good story with slightly different takes for each class. This made Makeb both a better story and more epic (due to not having to do eight full versions of it.) They are looking at taking the basic Makeb model in future and expanding on its emphasis of class differences. How would Luke Skywalker handle this problem vs. Darth Vader? They might go back to the class story model, but it would be hugely ambitious."

This quote shows that the Devs live in their own little world. Which explains quite some of the decisions they made in the past.

I did like the Makeb story. But I only did it twice per side. I played each side once with a male and once with a female character. I had hoped for some differences, like in the Class Story. But there weren't. After that it was either a boring grind, or it still lingers in the Log because I couldn't be bothered to return to finish the line once I hit 55.

That's just using what's there to reinforce a point of view. I also enjoyed the Makeb story, but I enjoyed it twice. Once Rep and once Imp. I did it twice on the Imp side after I moved my SW over to my other characters on the same server because I enjoyed playing him.

I'm not playing Makeb again though. Can't be bothered to just repeat the same content over and over again with no differences at all. I am however levelling my 8th character though so I can see all the class stories. If the game had been deployed in the way they've deployed Makeb I'd have quit playing about 18 months ago.

This quote shows that the Devs live in their own little world. Which explains quite some of the decisions they made in the past.

I did like the Makeb story. But I only did it twice per side. I played each side once with a male and once with a female character. I had hoped for some differences, like in the Class Story. But there weren't. After that it was either a boring grind, or it still lingers in the Log because I couldn't be bothered to return to finish the line once I hit 55.

What really annoys me, is that they say they can't get every class to a planet without a contrived reason after the end of Chapter 3. That implies a lack of understanding by the current writers of the class stories and how they ended.

Inquisitor? You're an ex-slave who has rocketed to a position on the Dark Council, forging alliances (or disrupting possible foes) is key to your continued survival.

Warrior? The Emperor is weakened and your ascension as His Wrath is tenuous at best. Lead Imperial military forces to glorious victory!

Agent? Intelligence might be dismantled, but you still have a love for the Empire and Her people. Those aforementioned morons are going to ruin literally everything if they aren't careful. Use your wit, your cunning and your resources to make sure the Empire doesn't face an all-out war on this tiny planet, while also keeping your head down.

(If you defected, spy on the Imperial efforts and report to SIS. Assist and secretly undermine the movements of Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath. Also: die you traitorous scum.)

Bounty Hunter: Money! Mandalorian Bounty Hunter? Glory!

It's a single chapter planet - they could have even taken the one story line they had and told it from the different perspectives of the classes. How does the Agent find out about Makeb? Well, by listening in on the Bounty Hunter's frequency and doing some research. Why is the Bounty Hunter even there? Because some really important people need to die (or be captured for the eternal glory of the Empire) and Darth Marr would rather not have the other Sith know.

The could have set-up for Chapter 5, but instead it still feels like we're cut adrift. Darth Marr has his McGuffin, hooray, what now? Guess I'll go shoe shopping on Nar Shadda till you need me.

What really annoys me, is that they say they can't get every class to a planet without a contrived reason after the end of Chapter 3. That implies a lack of understanding by the current writers of the class stories and how they ended.

Pretty much everything you said, Tatile.

It's really indicative of a massive disconnect between the people who developed the stories, and the People In Charge (PIC) now. The is very little continuity in how everyone's Chapter 3 ends, and how your character ends up on Makeb. I'd imagine there will be less so going forward unless the PIC get serious and fix the class story plot holes.

I'm not an idiot, I understand that asking Bioware to produce full Chapters 4-5-6 is asking too much of them at this point. However, despite the seriously reduced means at their disposal and that they are hell-bent on doing group content and group content only, they did say in the Seattle Cantina tour that they were hoping to "improve" class specific responses, so that gives me a little hope.

My issue throughout all of this is that some of the class stories end needing further closure. Even if they can't do full chapters, it's not unreasonable to ask that, if they really want to wrap up class stories, that they actually wrap them up. There are ways to do this other than full chapter quests.

I'm having a hard time figuring out if Bioware knows how to fix things and just don't want to, or if they really are in a bind and need help. Hell, I have some ideas...

* * *

My issue throughout all of this is that some of the class stories end needing further closure. Even if they can't do full chapters, it's not unreasonable to ask that, if they really want to wrap up class stories, that they actually wrap them up. There are ways to do this other than full chapter quests.

(Emphasis mine.)

That's what really annoys me. I've read people saying that we don't need more chapters for the Inquisitor line because you're now a member of the Dark Council. I'm sorry? Must everything be the "origin" story? You're an ex-slave, you have no alliances, you're new to Sith-dom and you're right at the very top of the power structure with no idea what's going on, surrounded by people who are more than happy to stab you in the back to get their friends in power, regardless of the turmoil broiling around the Empire. In fact, I think the only person preventing you from getting shived is Darth Marr, because he has the sense to see the bigger picture and direct the forces of the Empire, but that doesn't mean there won't be scheming and plotting going on.

And ancient Sith and Jedi artefacts? Why not study how the Force interacts with those who are Force sensitive and those who are not in an effort to understand how that connection is established and how it works. What if you could use old Rakata species-creating technology (as seen on Belsavis) in conjunction with Sith alchemy and ancient Dark Jedi technologies (of the kind required for primal-Sith/human interbreeding) to see if you can sever that connection.

Why fight the Jedi when you can simply unmake them?

Even if it only works on a tiny scale, you can still use it as your back-up plan against other members of the Dark Council or Jedi Council. I mean, bloody hell, what if you could make more Sith? What if you could enhance your current troops with a connection to the Force that gives them extra awareness on the battle field or in space battles?

It doesn't even have to work, because ultimately you'll have all that other technology and knowledge at your disposal and for use protecting yourself and the Empire.

Argghhh. But they think we want pots!

Tatile, you did a better job explaining why the Imperial Classes go to Makeb than the actual story does.

Let me give a try on the Republic Classes:

Jedi Knight: (Spoilertags because of reference to stuff happening in the Class Story)

Consular:

Some Sith found a way to pervert the curing ritual and making it possible to disconnect Force Users (Sith and Jedi alike) from the Force permanently. Using a strange new recource discovered on Makeb, the Sith is working on a way to perfect his technique to render whole planets "force inert". His first targets seems to be Tython and Korriban.

Trooper:

The Hut Cartel invaded a sovereign planet that asks the Republic for help (For me the Trooper is the only Class where the actual storyline of Makeb makes any real sense, it feels like a Trooper Class Story)

Smuggler:

A stranger contacts the Smuggler. There is a newly discovered Isotope on the Planet Makeb. Due to the somewhat shady occupation and reputation of the Captain, the contact wants him to secure and smuggle a shipload of this Isotope off Makeb to a secret Space Station. The Smuggler later finds out that the contact, who is only known as "Z", works for Rasmus Blys. Originally in it for the money, the Captain and his ragtag crew have to find out, where their loyalties really lie.