I have a lot of experience playing in WoW (more than 3 years), on russian server. I have tried all of the roles in the game. But now, with the renewal subscription SWTOR, and began to play a healer, I encountered a very strange behavior of the vast majority of players. For example: almost no one recovers his health, and resources, after the battle meditation, and other abilities. All, just immediately run to the next mob puck without looking at their own health.

In WoW, it is difficult to find a tank that it attacked the new pack of strong mobs with 50% health. In SVTOR is this a common thing. In WoW, a few more can be found of the tank, which will start the fight when healer out of mana, or the doctor is not there. In SVTOR it constantly. The fact that people have to help the tank, and beat his goal, I did not even mention.

What is this? I just had bad luck with groups? Or is it not a basic understanding of MMO game players? Or simply a cultural feature of english game worlds?

Please do not tell me to go back to WoW. I like it a lot SWTOR despite the large number of drawbacks. I just wanted to find out why.

Sorry for my bad English.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Andrey_Siberya

prolly bad luck. I think it will be a mix of people who use time to get health/force back and those that dont.

 

an even mix I would say. so atleast half the people will jump into the next fight or expect the healer to top them up

There are tons of people that just don't take the time to learn how to play in a group. Even worse, they get mad when you try to teach them, like you are trying to insult them by teaching them how to win.

 

Just recently I did Maelstrom Prison with a PUG and the healer was the one running ahead and starting fights without waiting for people to rest. At one point I had to type "STOP" in chat because he kept going even when a group member died. Clueless. I don't think he even knew he was the healer until I told him.

Edited November 21, 2012 by MorgonKara

The worst are the people that don't even bother to stop and loot the corpses.

Don't you have a job Arcain? Or are you like me sitting at work trolling the forums?

I thought it was pretty standard for groups to do this. For Hardmode Flashpoints, you want to get in and out as quick as you can, so just having the healer heal along the way is the easiest. Its not for all players i guess, but playing an agent healer i find its just really easy to heal as people run along.

It been a year and its mostly the same flashpoints. a team in BH and Rakkata gear does not need to rest much during a Black Talon run.

I largely play as healers so the not topping themselves up using recuperate between battles drives me mad. It is not my job to use my precious force/ammo cells to top you up! And it is not easy for me to use up my ammo cells on a commando medic to heal between battles seeing as the cells are extremely limited and do not recharge very quickly. Besides, if I do that then I have to take a few seconds to meditate/reload and it takes just as long to move on to the next mob as if you did it yourself. Of course, some don't even give me the time to recharge before moving on to the next mob when I am nice enough to top them off so if it's a boss fight I may end up running out of power just because everyone wanted topped up.

 

I've gotten to the point where I give one warning 'stop and heal yourself' very politely. If they do not obey, they do not get healing during the next mob fight. If they die, too bad for them, should have listened. And if they die or get very low on health and complain about me not doing my job, I will tell them again, "should have healed between fights so you don't put so much pressure on me. The tank needs me more than you do". I find the best way to make these stubborn people learn is to let them die, or get very close to it. I've even done this to tanks that won't behave; you don't get to be a speshul snowflake just cuz you're the tank, I will just call in a guildie to replace you if I need to.

 

I do the exact same thing with people who break CC right off the bat - mark the CC, say 'cc'ing target', wait a second for everyone to get the message and then cast CC. Person instantly jumps the targeted guy. He gets one warning that I am CC'ing that guy so do not attack him (if he asks what CC means, I am more than happy to explain it as well; I am patient, even if it should have been asked the first time it was said). If he does it again, he gets no heals. And if I'm tanking then I make it a point not to taunt that enemy off the person that broke it. You broke it, you deal with him. (This only applies to an instantly broken CC, not one broken accidentally in the midst of combat unless it's the same person making the same accident repeatedly).

 

Thankfully the guy who expects me to top him up or who breaks the CC immediately is usually just one person in the FP and is usually just a DPS (have rarely had tanks do this and 99% of them heal themselves between battle when I remind them). So, if that DPS consistently refuses to heal between battles or stop breaking CC - thus making me not heal him during the fight - he's easy enough to kick and replace. Heck, we've replaced such players with companions and completed the FP EASIER than when the player was there.

 

If enough people give gentle reminders and then start refusing to heal/tank for these people they WILL learn to start behaving themselves between and during fights.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Prettyevilish

If the group is geared enough and comfortable enough to chain pull, etc it's fun

 

Once I did see a tank pulling a boss (no less) while the healer was low on force and I told him not to do that again. He agreed and the rest of the flashpoint was good If you see people indulging in less than desirable behavior just speak up

I thought it was pretty standard for groups to do this. For Hardmode Flashpoints, you want to get in and out as quick as you can, so just having the healer heal along the way is the easiest. Its not for all players i guess, but playing an agent healer i find its just really easy to heal as people run along.

 

There is a difference between speed running and crippling your groups chances. If your entire group jumps into a group of mobs when they are at 50% health and resources you are stressing the crap out of that healer and the group will wipe. It will wind up taking more time then

I understand that this can lead a frustrating experience for healers. As a tank if I look at my current hp and find it too low to pull the next packs then I simply will use Introspection. If not, and especially if I believe the healer is more than capable I try not to stop to make sure flashpoint is over as quick as possible. But of course if a healer warns I think it's their right and I will recharge in every pack.

as an operative healer I have no problems with this... never low on energy, if we have a good group we can faceroll the whole FP without stopping. And yes, sometimes I go ahead and do the pulls if the tank is not really experienced, because honestly, all of them HM FPS are just way too easy and boring.

as an operative healer I have no problems with this... never low on energy, if we have a good group we can faceroll the whole FP without stopping. And yes, sometimes I go ahead and do the pulls if the tank is not really experienced, because honestly, all of them HM FPS are just way too easy and boring.

 

I run an operative healer and a scoundrel healer, and while I do know what you mean, I still think it's a bit of a dick move to do that. Don't undermine your tank! Why make it more stressful for everyone else just for your amusement?

this happened to me once, i was a sorc healer with a jugg tank(who was undergeared and underlved) he did the tactic of jumping mob to mob without me ccing, or anyone else ccing. we were trying the Foundry flashpoint so that was a big problem, especially with his conditions added in. he didn't listen to boss battle instructions, he didn't listen to ways to bypass certain mobs, he wouldn't OOC heal himself(nor would the rest of the group) so i had to keep using force to heal them. im amazed we even made it to the first boss, and after the fight with the the boss he just stood there, expecting me to use force to heal him even when we were not in combat. i explained to him " why should i was my energy healing you all for what you could do with no energy?". Of course he got mad thinking i didn't make sense at all and that i had insulted his intelligence somehow i think he said something along the lines of" because its your job as healer to heal everyone all the time" and this is where i left the group.

I'm primarily a healer, and this can be really annoying lol. I don't mind at all if everyone's health isn't at max--if they're missing a little, it's really easy to top off with my HoTs and everything's good. But if I have to use my bread and butter heals to get people to max so frequently that I have to rest in between fights to recharge mana... meh, it gets annoying. I do it anyway though, since I'd rather have a fast run where I'm doing a lot of work than one of those ultra cautious runs where the tank won't attack unless we CC every possible mob. Most don't need to be CCed! Save those CCs for multiple golds spaced far enough apart for it to be awkward for the tank to hold agro on them all! *flails*

 

So yeah, like many things, it's subjective. Little bit of health missing when the next fight starts is okay. If it's nearing 25% of health missing, I'm going to start thinking it's bad. And if they're at 50% or less health and it doesn't even occur to them to stop to rest I'm going to sigh and think bad thoughts.

 

It only rarely happens that they're so low though because I keep them up during fights, but sometimes things turn ugly and yet people still won't rest... I almost had a Foundry group wipe due to the HK bug the other day. Two people died; I rezzed one shortly before the fight ended and he barely had any health. The other was rezzed after the fight and also barely had any health. They both instantly ran out of the room and to the next trash... without resting or even reapplying buffs. On a HM. *sighs*

 

I usually don't bother to ask people nicely to please rest between fights anymore. Tired of getting "you're the healer, do your job" type comments that make me say angry things.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Beltane

it´s not too bad i guess. but beeing the tank most times i get to set the pace. If someone else keeps pulling after beeing told not to i´ll just leave. I hate people making my job harder than it has to be. If i´m sometimes slow on pulls there´s a reason. Even if it´s just me taking a sip of coffe, you can wait for thoose few sec so we all can have a nice run.

 

As for not healing up between pulls, i´ll allways move to the next pull before healing up, i might as well regen that little bit of hp on the run. If someone is less that 75% hp i´ll probably wait depending on the pull. If i´m not at 100% i´ll probably heal up depending on the pull. Also it depends on my confidence in the healer. After a few pulls you´ll quickly know how competent and wellgeared your healer for that run is. Great healers gets to work harder. Just keep an eye on your groups resource aswell as their hp.

for this and a few other reasons i no longer pug with my healer. he is all geared out and don't need the extra few hm bh coms anyways. a guildy of mine is starting to feel the same way on his healer too.

 

racing through a fp with over geared players is one thing but when one or more are not and or are doing it for the first or second time it is a recipe for disaster.

Personally I'm so bored on my sorc in HMs, that I enjoy healing everyone up between pulls. Of course, if they actually need any healing, that's the rarity there. Frankly I spend most pulls DPSing and throwing out the occasional HoT and (if things get real crazy) an Innervate. If you're in a group that is not new players and anybody consistently needs significant healing once the pull is over... you should probably investigate what the group is doing wrong and do whatever you can to make it better.

 

And I pug 70% of these FPs. Getting a rookie tank is like a treat for me at this point... but it's an oddly rare occurrence.

so the healer isn't doing their job keeping the group healed then if they are having to pull at 50% or less? That's what I got from this. I love chain pulling but usually because my healer is doing his job and keeping folks topped off.

so the healer isn't doing their job keeping the group healed then if they are having to pull at 50% or less? That's what I got from this. I love chain pulling but usually because my healer is doing his job and keeping folks topped off.

 

It's not always that easy. For example, if a group is ignoring basic boss mechanics and standing in things that hurt, so that they're overly taxing their healer, it's impossible to keep them all topped off all the time.

 

My sorc healer is well geared, and it's easy to keep the whole group topped off... unless things go bad with the tank or DPS, in which case one of them or more might have low health at the end of a boss fight. My priority is to keep everyone standing with the tank as the priority, not keeping everyone at 100% always. If it's a nasty fight but everyone's still alive at the end, I did my job.

It's about rushing. They all want to rush and break the world record to do flashpoint x and they come in with the attitude -- how do I beat this quickest. Not, how do I get the most out of this. Symptoms are:

 

Not healing between fights

Spacebar smashing through text and yelling at others to smash that same spacebar -- if you don't, theyll quit

Not picking up common loot

Skipping npc's

Clicking on the group finder icon and queue -- not selecting their role. So you end up with for example tank specced shadows who are selected as dps or dps commando's who are specced as healer etc.

 

Thats about the things I can think of, there are probably more.

you can clear something fast and still have fun. It's about maximizing your efficiency when online. I don't like to waste time. I also do not take unnecessary dmg to overtax the healer. If I were a healer in that situation I would simply not heal the person and let them die to learn from their mistake. Can always brez em or rez after the encounter. Point is when Im doing a FP I want to finish it as quickly as possible because I have experienced the story many times, I don't need anything from the run other than to complete my group finder daily, and I have other things to do before my online time is up. I don't want to waste a session in game by waiting for people.

It's not always that easy. For example, if a group is ignoring basic boss mechanics and standing in things that hurt, so that they're overly taxing their healer, it's impossible to keep them all topped off all the time.

 

My sorc healer is well geared, and it's easy to keep the whole group topped off... unless things go bad with the tank or DPS, in which case one of them or more might have low health at the end of a boss fight. My priority is to keep everyone standing with the tank as the priority, not keeping everyone at 100% always. If it's a nasty fight but everyone's still alive at the end, I did my job.

 

Exactly. I can't control what the other members of the group do, or how intelligent they are (okay, I can control the tank, because he's my BF and we pretty much only run together now), so if one or more DPS stand in an AoE or get spit on, and at the same time the tank is taking unavoidable damage, the tank is going to be top priority. I will TRY to heal the DPS(es) once the tank is in safe range, but if they're still standing in AoE's (despite telling them not to after the first surprise) they might die before I can get off a heal for them. The tank is my top priority because if he dies I'm almost guaranteed to steal the aggro (and while I'm pretending to be a tank and healing myself, the DPS(es) will STILL be doing stupid things and acting like I should heal them).

 

This NEVER happens while running with experienced people who know not to stand in things. I usually keep everyone at near 100% health throughout the fight, which means we can run right along to the next mob without pausing. It's the lower level FPs that cause the problem, and I don't know if it's new players who don't know the mechanics or people running alts who forget they're not overgeared out the wazoo like they normally are, or a combination of both. But people do need to show some consideration to their healer and stop acting like healing between fights is part of the job description (if you want to take on that job for the challenge, far be it from me to stop you, but people need to be prepared to show courtesy to the other healers that don't (or can't in the case of commando medics who have limited power cells) want to).

 

Same goes for DPS pulling before the tank is ready. Stop it already!

 

And the same also goes for people who are stealthers in HMs and STILL haven't learned that boss mobs have a mechanic to allow them to see a person in stealth from further away than non-stealthed people (it keeps stealthers from skipping bosses). Have had more than one boss fight start before everyone was ready because someone stealthed up to the group and just stood there. By the time you get to an HM you need to know about these mechanics existing - and if you didn't before, you do now, so stop doing it!

well, with f2p here, there will be a lot of new people trying this game, it is for the people that aren't new and knowledgeable, and familiar with MMO's in general to help out. If you are CC'ing a target, call it out. If people don't understand, then it's there issue not yours. However, if we want this game to be successful, then we need to have patience with newer people.

 

Add that if you are reading this and are new, this isn't a bad thing. You just need to say you are new or have never been to the flashpoint you are in. If you have a question, ask. Most people will answer. Boss fights really don't require much explanation other than one or two sentences. And will go a long way to a much more enjoyable experience, and less repair bills

*Sigh* You people treat HM flashpoints like they are rocket science..

 

Level 50 group finder HM FPs are generally accepted as speed runs for the daily BH comms. I play all three roles and unless a group is absolutely undergeared and clueless I will chain pull because these HM FPs are ridiculously easy as ANY role. I always ask if we want to spacebar or not, I'm all for watching the cutscenes if someone hasn't seen it or wants to.

 

To the healers, do your job, you aren't anymore important or special then the other roles, grow up and heal the people, especially on the speed runs as some people don't have all the time in the world and just want their commendations for the day

 

To the tanks in this thread, get off your high horses, HM FPs can easily be done without you and frankly are only needed to make it even more easy then it already is

 

To the DPS. if your group is struggling through each pull then DO let the tank pull first. possibly encouraging him to speed it up a little if the healer can handle it

 

Like I said, I have plenty of experience in all three roles, it absolutely infuriates me when a tank thinks he is so important and that DPS are the scum of the earth, thinking he can take all the time in the world to do his job or when a healer doesn't heal somebody to "teach them a lesson" and wipes the whole group (or slows them down significantly) because they refused to heal.

 

TL;DR Grow up and do your "jobs", its a game and not everyone wants to spend hours in something that can be completed in 20 minutes (Of course there are exceptions like doing a FP to experience or "re-experience" the story, but let the group know so they arent sitting there staring at a blank screen waiting for you to watch the cutscenes)

 

/endrant

Edited November 25, 2012 by SharpG