Jump to content

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

Recommended Posts

*edited for space.

 

Honestly, if you don't have one already, roll an alt on the opposite faction.

 

I have done that, and I can honestly say it's a band-aid at most. Your main will always be your preferred one and switching faction is not easy.

 

For me, the lousy machmaking is slowly but surely making me pvp less. Pugging against premades just isn't fun in the majority of cases.

 

BTW: The matchmaker DOES put opposing factions BEFORE it matches premades vs premades. I had a rep pug team meet a imp team with 7 from the same PVP guild.

Edited by Veniras
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Quote snipped because it's long.

 

What I've said a million times in this thread and what you are describing in this thread are the same thing. Nothing in your post was related to the fact that they are a premade group. EVERYTHING you described is gear and skill based. At no point did you describe a point where their VOIP and superior coordination was overwhelming. At no point did you describe their ability to select a target and simultaneously focus that one person down.

 

If you met this team and it wasn't a premade group, would the outcome have been any different? Just because everyone is queuing solo doesn't mean that there will not be imbalances that occur.

 

The only solution that fixes everything in your post is a matchmaking system. It doesn't matter if the other people are grouped, geared, experienced, or whatever as long as the overall cumulative ability is equal. I'm happy to play in recruit gear against full war heroes if their skill and knowledge level are far below mine. The fight would probably be fairly equal.

 

The most important take away from what I am posting:

Eliminating premades from the queue only takes advantages away from an individual, it does not take them away altogether.

 

So one guild can't always ensure they have 4 war heroes on their team, but it doesn't change the fact that it will still happen. I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you that the exact situation you described would continue happening in solo queues, there would just be no way for anyone to mitigate their chances of it happening to them. True matchmaking is the only solution that will actually prevent the problem, not a divided queue.

 

The thing is, genius, the premade group making sure that their team is well gear to slam new players. Have you ever see a premade group full recruit or BM gear ? If solo queue, then it's a chance - a chance you could meet 8 WHs+ aug again and again likely to 0, no one going to complain about it. But this is become an exploit for medal or for satisfaction, i don't care. If Bw intend to make money from F2P, they will have to change the match making system - cause the original 50 would not change to F2P, only new player, and new players that joined for stories wont pay a cent, and we have the rest and they will quit if the game community are all *******.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premades are ruining PvE raids too. I always ask random people if I can join their raid but they always claim to be full of guildees. Its clear that their guild is just exploiting the respawn timer of bosses to kill them every week for momentary gain. How can this be allowed?

 

And on the same topic, 2 good PvPers should not be allowed to be friends. I personally refuse to group with anyone I know, because it would most likely upset server factional balance and cause the game to implode.

 

My Assassin has non-augmented recruit pieces but I still make sure to never group with friends, just in case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What i find interesting is that people think 1.6 will change everything - it wont. You might initially narrow the gear gap, but pvp guilds will still gear up faster and still min max their ewh gear whilst everyone is getting their war hero. The difference in stats is enough. The people that struggle with pvp will still struggle, and the people that don't will still win more often.

 

There can only be so many people that win and most will lose, I don't see how these changes will suddenly make the game less difficult for people that struggle to call incs, interupt, or find 3 other people to pvp with (not saying all recruits are like this btw). People that insist on relying on random group comp vs people that queue with 3 other pals that know what they are doing will still lose (why this is a shock to anyone i dont know) to better geared and experienced players.

 

How do I know this?

 

Because the same stuff was said when wh was released, and people were saying the stats were not much different between the two sets then. It was augments that made the real difference, and I still mantain that augmented bm gear is very competitive.

 

They are good changes on paper, new set of gear for comms for new players is what was needed, but anyone struggling with pvp mechanics, time investment etc, that are expecting things to magically change (e.g think they are gonna start winning loads of games all of a sudden) is deluding themselves.

 

If you want to succeed help yourself anyway you can, dont rely on the devs to fix everything. They cannot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely correct Bassfu. That is what people often fail to realize. A 2 man group is the same as a full premade in the average rift pvp match for example. So a 4man is huge.

 

The problem here though is the wz's are set up for 8v8 and that is not an easy fix to change it.

 

The important thing to take from this is that premades are definitely a problem in this game and worse than in many mmos.

 

Also, earlier tonight I was doing ranked and while there were many many many premades doing regular warzones at the time only my team and 1 other were doing ranked for hours and hours. Many of you premaders just don't want a challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours spent tonight trying to get the last 3 wins for the weekly. Most of that time was spent against perfectly geared premades, usually the same 2 every time. That was zero fun, and it didn't help matters getting 3+ mostly recruit geared on our side, and once a guy in level 40 pve gear with 12k hp.....really?

 

Hardcore 4-man premades belong in their own queue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premade 2-3 casual players itself is not a problem.

 

The problem is ranked 4-man premade of hardcore players on regular wz.

 

So what you mean is people in better gear should not be able to premade against premades in crap gear?

 

The problem is the gear gap then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premade 2-3 casual players itself is not a problem.

 

The problem is ranked 4-man premade of hardcore players on regular wz.

 

Most matches even one player can contribute to the outcome so much it guarantees a victory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most matches even one player can contribute to the outcome so much it guarantees a victory.

 

I disagree. It might be so on your server, but on mine certain matches are pretty much determined as soon as you see the opposing team composition if you are pugging.

Edited by Veniras
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@PioGreen.

I'm going to be Captain Obvious here but ... all competitions have winners or losers. The key of a good competition is balance between competitors, not fun to watch a fight between one holding a AK-47 and another holding a knife. I think we agree so far ;). Now, we get a fair share of unbalanced WZ fights in SWTOR (frequency differs from server to server , The Red Eclipse is not that bad FYI) and , while I'm not holding my breath for 1.6 still I have high hopes for it to address some of the variables that cause imbalance. Split queues are just a band-aid over the entire issue and I really don't think it's the way to go but in all honesty even a band-aid can stop a bleeding sometimes and allow time for a life saving intervention/solution to be reached.

 

On a personal note , I find myself PvPing less and less. It could be the 11 months of doing the same thing but I feel that getting in one-sided matches a bit too often for my taste has something to do with it. I'm not good at PvP but I'm not clueless either and I got in some matches that sucked the playing PvP desire out of me for couple of days after. And if I as a veteran (like in old) player feel that way I wonder how a rookie (as in new) will feel after such experiences.

 

TL;DR Something needs to be done! Let's hope 1.6 will be the first good PvP patch.

Edited by LenrocNewDawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Premades are ruining PvE raids too. I always ask random people if I can join their raid but they always claim to be full of guildees. Its clear that their guild is just exploiting the respawn timer of bosses to kill them every week for momentary gain. How can this be allowed?

 

lol wut? That's kind of the point of being in a guild. Not sure if you're serious or trolling. As for the weekly reset on bosses, that's sort of the point of raiding/slowing down gear progression, only 1 clear per week, then locked out. There's nothing wrong with that at all, I'll go ahead and answer for bioware here and say "Working as intended" in terms of being able to clear an op once a week, lol. Seriously though, are you trolling? Either way, thx for the lulz. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@PioGreen.

I'm going to be Captain Obvious here but ... all competitions have winners or losers. The key of a good competition is balance between competitors, not fun to watch a fight between one holding a AK-47 and another holding a knife. I think we agree so far ;). Now, we get a fair share of unbalanced WZ fights in SWTOR (frequency differs from server to server , The Red Eclipse is not that bad FYI) and , while I'm not holding my breath for 1.6 still I have high hopes for it to address some of the variables that cause imbalance. Split queues are just a band-aid over the entire issue and I really don't think it's the way to go but in all honesty even a band-aid can stop a bleeding sometimes and allow time for a life saving intervention/solution to be reached.

 

On a personal note , I find myself PvPing less and less. It could be the 11 months of doing the same thing but I feel that getting in one-sided matches a bit too often for my taste has something to do with it. I'm not good at PvP but I'm not clueless either and I got in some matches that sucked the playing PvP desire out of me for couple of days after. And if I as a veteran (like in old) player feel that way I wonder how a rookie (as in new) will feel after such experiences.

 

TL;DR Something needs to be done! Let's hope 1.6 will be the first good PvP patch.

 

You will never have a competition with a level playing field in a game with gear progression in it. Remove the premades, you still have gear imbalances, and skill imbalances. 1.6 might address the gear imbalance temporarily (my opinion is little will change) but there are no changes the devs can make that will make those bad players from being bad (not saying all recruits are bad). At some point you have to take steps yourself, you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time. Sure no one wants to see the game die because they get stomped by stronger players but equally I dont want to see this game turn into a welfare fest for casuals either, that wont help the game in the long run. The whole point of pvp is to compete and improve you char, take that away and it will become completley dull for players also.

 

Cross server queues are needed, split queues im not so sure that is helping anyone since the compromise is already in the game - you field 4 players not 8, or you solo queue. Seens fair to me and i do both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will never have a competition with a level playing field in a game with gear progression in it. Remove the premades, you still have gear imbalances, and skill imbalances. 1.6 might address the gear imbalance temporarily (my opinion is little will change) but there are no changes the devs can make that will make those bad players from being bad (not saying all recruits are bad). At some point you have to take steps yourself, you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time. Sure no one wants to see the game die because they get stomped by stronger players but equally I dont want to see this game turn into a welfare fest for casuals either, that wont help the game in the long run. The whole point of pvp is to compete and improve you char, take that away and it will become completley dull for players also.

 

Cross server queues are needed, split queues im not so sure that is helping anyone since the compromise is already in the game - you field 4 players not 8, or you solo queue. Seens fair to me and i do both.

 

No level playing field then we can't talk about competition.

 

Everyone starts as a "bad" (true some will always be "bad") and then they start getting better until they reach their maximum potential. But in order for that to happen devs need to make sure that the path from "bad" to "good" is as enjoyable as possible. I'm not asking to dumb down anything, never asked for a nerf and I very rarely comment on so called "OP" classes always saying that is my perceived opinion and not an absolute truth.

As time passes and the game matures steps need to be taken to ensure that the PvP playing field is as balanced as possible. I have no problem with guys that like gear progression or char improvement , I'd by lying to say I'm not enjoying a new piece of gear, and of course I understand that gear progression creates imbalance but bottom line is that w/o balance you can't have competition so the devs need to find an algorithm to match 16 imbalanced toons in two balanced teams. Of course it won't be perfect but they may as well try and give their best ;).

 

On final thing, if you try to justify pitting recruit gear players against WH geared ones by " ...you can't expect everything to be dumbed down to mr new 50 all the time." you are mistaken. These guys should never compete against each other see my AK47-knife analogy. 4WH+4R vs 4WH+4R is another matter and I find it acceptable but for that to happen we need better matchmaking (which was announced).

Edited by LenrocNewDawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You people understand that many optimized aug wh premade players are actually horrible players don't you? The skill softcap in this game is very low and if you are geared with a healer on many of the dps classes then you will do very well even as a horrible player.

 

Take sent for example. If I pug and fight a hard team I have to be very aware and use my cd's at the perfect times and attack the right ppl and not become the tab target etc. if I really want to be my best. However, if I am fighting a weaker team I don't do any of that and if I have a pocket healer then I will seriously destroy your team while spending far more time watching my tv than my computer screen.

 

Also, on my vguard and shadow I have seen almost every top geared smash/sweep char try backpedaling from me for the majority of our fight so that they could get range for leap. Even when I have been sub 50% and they started at 80% plus and I ended up winning because of it since I just attacked them outside of their range. This happens very often and I laugh so hard everytime. Are these the "skilled" pvprs?

 

There are some premaders that want competition, however these are rare. That is why REAL ranked matches (the kind that aren't some randoms or wintrading) are pretty rare and are even rare when some guilds have several premades running reg wzs.

 

Many of these people deep down know that they are not good and they want the system to stay as is so that they can continue to feel good about themselves. I have no problem with this in itself as I wish everyone could feel good about theirself however what I do have a problem with is that there is little competition in the current system and pvp is often boring when it could be great with more even matches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ran into a premade today ...somehow they got 7 of the same guild in there....7 smashy smashers and 1 ops healer. Somehow I didnt get the fun part of that wz. There seems to be fewer premades this weekend tho, maybe more solo ppl queing up to max out copmms I guess.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ran into a premade today ...somehow they got 7 of the same guild in there.

 

Opposing factions fight. One faction have two premades in queue (4 and 3), the other none. Matchmaker sets up a rep vs imp fight and lump the two premades together since they are on same faction.

 

faction matching > premade vs premade matching.

Edited by Veniras
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just dont understand how can PVP be competitive or balanced in a game when we are able to fight against premades in regular warzones...lol

And what players do when see that its a premade ?? Just leave...and this happens many times.

 

The PVP only gonna be competitive when premades play only against premades, and not against solo randoms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...