No, not in my opinion. They're closer, because as a starting point they're 4 people known to each other. And that is closer than 8 random people. That is a undeniable fact.

 

Those 2-4 friends that want to play together is a non issue. In my personal experience you'll not notice them over 8 totally random people. It is the "elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team" that stomp anything and everything that is a problem. If you've ever been one out of the randoms in such a premade, you'll quickly realize that PVP just turned into a joke. It's piss easy. No fun. And definitely no fun for the 8 randoms in the opposing team.

 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't create a proper matchmaking system. I'm saying they should immediately redo/remove the current situation with "premades". And that can't be done unless they remove the ability all together, or make certain that 2x4 people are matched up against 2x4 people. Premade vs premade in other words.

 

We have premade versus premade already, its called ranked warzones. It failed because it split the (small) pvp community in to two separate queues, making queue times longer (big negative) and highlighting the massive differences between good and bad premades to the point where all bad/average premades stopped queuing. You're suggestion has already failed, so I see no reason to repeat that failure.

 

For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches

 

However, your method has already failed (segregating the community) because it doesn't address the core of the matter - player skill. Player skill is amplified by gear and premades but ultimately player skill should be the ultimate balancing method, and a ranking system is the closest we can get to measuring player skill.

 

If we split premade and solo queues, I guaruntee that within a month the premade queue will be pretty much dead and the exact same problems we have now will still exist in solo warzones.

We have premade versus premade already, its called ranked warzones. It failed because it split the (small) pvp community in to two separate queues, making queue times longer (big negative) and highlighting the massive differences between good and bad premades to the point where all bad/average premades stopped queuing. You're suggestion has already failed, so I see no reason to repeat that failure.

 

For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches

 

However, your method has already failed (segregating the community) because it doesn't address the core of the matter - player skill. Player skill is amplified by gear and premades but ultimately player skill should be the ultimate balancing method, and a ranking system is the closest we can get to measuring player skill.

 

If we split premade and solo queues, I guaruntee that within a month the premade queue will be pretty much dead and the exact same problems we have now will still exist in solo warzones.

 

I agree, most premaders are genuinly afraid to go up against other premades. BW should by defualt send all 4 man groups to the ranked wzs and have all 8 man teams with two 4 man premade groups go up against other 8 man two 4 man pre made groups. this will allow solo quers to go up against pugs and all of those whom premade go up against premades. they should also have a cross server que. this is supposed to be a AAA MMO and it does not have a cross server que, that is sad.

For the record, we are after the same thing: fair pvp matches

Have about we stop lying and start telling the truth. When I premade it's all about taking every advantage we can get to roflstomp the opposition. This game's queue system guarantees that I will be able to roflstomp in about every warzone. If I wanted a challenge I would queue for ranked warzones.

Have about we stop lying and start telling the truth. When I premade it's all about taking every advantage we can get to roflstomp the opposition. This game's queue system guarantees that I will be able to roflstomp in about every warzone. If I wanted a challenge I would queue for ranked warzones.

 

Holy

 

S

Hit!

 

We've got a winner.

 

It's amazing how people will defend the status quo so long as those who speak loudest benefit most.

 

The premades in this game are out of control. There is no excuse for it. "OMG I just want to play with my friends."... play against other like minded groups! And the excuses begin and continue and go on and on and on...

 

There are 8 people on a side in this tiny *** warzone game... there should never have been an allowance for half the team to be a coordinated voice joined pugstomper machine.

 

Period.

 

All your excuses are just that... excuses. You want to win versus pugs. The end.

 

Note to you! That's not a good game, and that's not fun to anyone involved who's actually interested in having fun.

 

Oh, except to you excusers you like to pugstomp. Yay you.

 

Feel good?

I played quite a lot in pugs lately, and honestly i don't think the problem is premades, the "problem" is just very good players;

 

like, there's some players if i see one of them on my team i know we're not gonna be stomped, if i see one of them on the other team i know it's gonna be a hard match. Now the problem, imo, is if 4 of them queue up together. Since there's very few of them, chances that the opposing team happens to have a few as well are just really really slim.

 

I have absolutely no idea how to fix it, but what would go a long way imo is if they'd show some grace and stop obliterating the other team once the warzone is decided. Is it really necessary to farm the enemy at the spawn point? Do you have to /say how bad they are? If i played roger federer today i'd get destroyed, but i'm pretty sure he'd be graceful about it, not making fun of me and tell me to "l2p noob". Lots of good players lack this completely, and this makes for a bad experience imo.

In your opinion.

 

Your incorrect opinion, as most people who "premade" also solo queue. They're the same people. And then, most premades aren't the elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team of your imagination, but 2 to 4 friends who queued to play the game together.

 

Anstalt is totally correct with his matchmaking point. It balances for diffrences in gear, skill, and increased effectiveness through a tendency to premade. It would match you against people who are around your effectiveness (whatever the sources of that level of effectiveness), so giving you an around even chance to win. No more roflstomping.

 

I think you forget that in premades you can choose the class/specs that you want and gear level. It would only be fair if premades were force to play against premades.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Knockerz

It would only be fair if premades were force to play against premades.

 

^ this.

I think you forget that in premades you can choose the class/specs that you want and gear level. It would only be fair if premades were force to play against premades.

 

Very well said, most premaders will try to sell to people that pugs are just as chalanging as going up against other premades.... yet when its suggested that the que should be designed so that every premade is sent up against other premades only, they are all up in arms about it. guess there afraid of a challange.

This is for EAware developers, please take a look at this wonderful scoreboard, look the kills! YAY!!

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2177/premades.jpg

 

Our team wasn't only in recruit gear and it had some good players. Ebon Hawk server, Sunday.

 

Please patch this thing or lose subscribers.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Giberelina

This is for EAware developers, please take a look at this wonderful scoreboard, look the kills! YAY!!

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2177/premades.jpg

 

Our team wasn't only in recruit gear and it had some good players. Ebon Hawk server, Sunday.

 

Please patch this thing or lose subscribers.

 

awesome screen shot, i doubt BW will see it or care. the thing that confuses me is they are trying to more subs and they are doing things in pvp that iritate most players, such as grouping pugs with premades.

This is for EAware developers, please take a look at this wonderful scoreboard, look the kills! YAY!!

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2177/premades.jpg

 

Our team wasn't only in recruit gear and it had some good players. Ebon Hawk server, Sunday.

 

So what are we supposed to see in the screen shot? That one team had some idea of how to play and the other one didnt. The loosing team had one healer who was obviously not part of the attacks to take objectives with the only 1 death, or he ran away abandoning the team whenever he got attacked. Looks like the loosing team either has way worse gear, or just didnt focus fire anything. The winning team had a healer who was guarded and protected well and just simply outhealed the loosing teams damage. Six of you on one guarded healer should have no trouble stomping that healer if you actually attack the healer together and use some stuns and interrupts (if what you say about having decent players and gear is true then the death counts indicate a pack of like 6 of you were traveling together, is the other side to blame you didnt attack the same target?.... mark healers and focus fire them)

 

As a tank in pvp who does a lot of solo que'ing I have to say that I get frustrated by playing on teams where no one know what they are doing... running away from objectives leaving them unguarded, not coming to help when someone calls incoming (or everyone coming and no one staying because a node has 1 person coming to it), and always running into a fight by themselves instead of attacking as a group, never mind the more "advanced" tactics of attacking the marked targets first or a healer healing his guard, or guards putting a guard on a healer and actually staying in range of that healer so the healer has some benefit. lets not forget the teams who focus so hard on killing every person on the other team that no one bothers to even try to go for the objectives, or maybe just maybe stunning or pushing the last enemy in the area alive so the person trying to cap can finish before the other team shows up again.

 

You realize that the reason that a lot premades form is because people want to get away from that. I would bet the large majority of premades that you run into are just a few pvpers who are on at the same time who see a few other names they know and form a group for a while so they know they will get at least a couple of people who have a clue as to what to do, they then roflstomp most pugs because they actually understand the word "team" and they are probably not even on a voice chat. The lack of people in pvp matches that understand the concept of "team" is astonishing. The below 50 bracket I can sort of understand, people are learning the game still potentially, but at 50 if you join a team you should have some clue on how pvp and how the wz's works, have some clue as to how to play your class or at least ask what to do and take the time to listen to instructions. If you que for an op and someone shows up in crap gear, dosnt know how to play their role, runs off randomly to try and kill stuff on his own how long do you put up with that person? If you are feeling charitable you will try to teach that person, but after they wipe your group often enough most people dont want to stick around. You are playing with other people also trying to enjoy a game, why is it that so many people show up totally unprepared and expect everyone else to make up the difference for them when everyone is just trying to have some fun. If you are not willing to put in the effort to actually contribute to a team, why should the team be obligated to try and include you?

This is for EAware developers, please take a look at this wonderful scoreboard, look the kills! YAY!!

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2177/premades.jpg

 

Our team wasn't only in recruit gear and it had some good players. Ebon Hawk server, Sunday.

 

Please patch this thing or lose subscribers.

 

all i see is a bunch of bad players

 

 

 

all this thread has become (or ever was tbh) is a massive cry fest. if it such a bother to you, quit SWTOR and go play a game that *does* separate the premades from the pugs.

 

this is an MASSSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game. if grouping gets your knickers in a bunch, i suggest a new genre for your next video game purchase. perhaps a plain old RPG or a good ol' action shooter?

I can verify as a fellow Ebon Hawker, that scoreboard is not unreasonable against certain guilds. I've been on teams with good gear, good communication, and some sharp cookies that still get their heads handed to them on a platter. Average PUGs don't stand a chance against these higher tier pre-mades, no matter how much 'L2P' is is thrown around. It isn't a problem that those can come together, work together, and play very competitively. The real problem is that they will tear anyone not on their level like delicious beef through a meat grinder, and there isn't any really good option in place to match them against more advanced like-minded players on a regular basis.

 

I'm sure the attitude people take when they lose or win can be factored in to some of the animosity. In an immersive game like this, it's easy to see why egos get bruised, or people think their genitalia is somehow not as as small when they win. Heck, just reading fifteen or so pages in this thread you can see the smug is almost unbearable.

i Think that forcing premades only facing other premades also can help with getting ranked warzones going. i am recognized as a fairly good player on my server, but im deaf so im not wanted in premades. since im for obvious reasons dont even own a mic or speakers. sure i can type in chat but that will never be as effective as voice Communication, and even worse i cant keep up with what the other players are saying/planning in premades. i guess i could buy a mic and go "gah" for west, "rwlrwlll" for east, and "ftmchh" for mid. but still it isnt enough. maybe everyone should use cam and Learning sign language? meh enough of that rant, but i really i would like premades out of the "normal" Que. and tbh should premades want to face equally good teams, with equal conditions? or is the steamrolling a measure of skill nowdays.

Rebel_L: tl;dr.

 

i suggest a new genre for your next video game purchase. perhaps a plain old RPG or a good ol' action shooter?

 

Definitely what I'm thinking. That is why I said "Patch this thing or lose subscribers".

 

Well whatever, imo, you have to be a masochist if you enjoy that. Or a premade. (Though, I can't understand how they enjoy a match with zero difficulty).

 

I

I'm sure the attitude people take when they lose or win can be factored in to some of the animosity. In an immersive game like this, it's easy to see why egos get bruised, or people think their genitalia is somehow not as as small when they win. Heck, just reading fifteen or so pages in this thread you can see the smug is almost unbearable.

 

I'm shaking my head too here. I don't have a problem admitting sometimes I suck, sometimes I win lots of medals. So? Yes, it's my first MMO and I'm a noob, still, I notice the difference between a fair defeat and not being able to drop alive from the spawn door in Voidstar (not kidding, the entire team just dying there, against 2 republic pvp guilds, also Sunday)

In fact I don't have a problem if I'm the last in the scoreboard, it's just these joke matches that ruin everything.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Giberelina

Rebel_L: tl;dr.

 

 

 

Definitely what I'm thinking. That is why I said "Patch this thing or lose subscribers".

 

Well whatever, imo, you have to be a masochist if you enjoy that. Or a premade. (Though, I can't understand how they enjoy a match with zero difficulty).

 

 

 

I'm shaking my head too here. I don't have a problem admitting sometimes I suck, sometimes I win lots of medals. So? Yes, it's my first MMO and I'm a noob, still, I notice the difference between a fair defeat and not being able to drop alive from the spawn door in Voidstar (not kidding, the entire team just dying there, against 2 republic pvp guilds, also Sunday)

In fact I don't have a problem if I'm the last in the scoreboard, it's just these joke matches that ruin everything.

 

The word for premade who enjoy this is "sadist"

Very well said, most premaders will try to sell to people that pugs are just as chalanging as going up against other premades.... yet when its suggested that the que should be designed so that every premade is sent up against other premades only, they are all up in arms about it. guess there afraid of a challange.

 

Based on my experience with premades in wow, premades don't want to face other premades. Every premade I was in never wanted to face other premades. There are exceptions, but I think the vast majority don't want to face other premades. First, facing other premades means you will gain honor slower in wow. The same is true in swtor. Facing other premades means a slower rate of earning commendations since your force to face other organized groups instead of random assortment of pugs.

^^^^^^^^^ and again ^^^^^. Exactly. Putting a group together gives you an advantage over pugs, that is the main reason ppl group together, yes occasionally you get a friends team up together but they are not usually as effective as a group of like minded decent to good players on vent coordinating attacks and battle strats. If you are in a premade, your goal is usually to pwn random pugs and gain easy comms. I'm not saying all premades do this but I'm sure most do. Theres nothing wrong with having a tactical advantage, but playing as the random pug it is certainly a miserable experience when facing premades. It needs to be adjusted.

all i see is a bunch of bad players

 

 

 

all this thread has become (or ever was tbh) is a massive cry fest. if it such a bother to you, quit SWTOR and go play a game that *does* separate the premades from the pugs.

 

this is an MASSSIVE MULTIPLAYER online game. if grouping gets your knickers in a bunch, i suggest a new genre for your next video game purchase. perhaps a plain old RPG or a good ol' action shooter?

 

I enjoyed this post. Entertainment on the forums is nigh better than the game itself...in my opinion. I especially liked the MMO part; italics mine.

 

*laughing*

That is... is some funny stuff...MMO indeed...

*laughing*

^^^^^^^^^ and again ^^^^^. Exactly. Putting a group together gives you an advantage over pugs, that is the main reason ppl group together, yes occasionally you get a friends team up together but they are not usually as effective as a group of like minded decent to good players on vent coordinating attacks and battle strats. If you are in a premade, your goal is usually to pwn random pugs and gain easy comms. I'm not saying all premades do this but I'm sure most do. Theres nothing wrong with having a tactical advantage, but playing as the random pug it is certainly a miserable experience when facing premades. It needs to be adjusted.

 

Isn't this what RANKED WARZONES are for?

 

Can't we just leave the Warzone 'quick-queue' for pugs and randoms and put the pre-mades where the are on a level playing field with other pre-mades?

I don't think premades themselves are bad.

 

It's more like, facing a premade with a sucky team (either due to bad players or a bad class comp).

 

I would guess that people who are complaining about them would be okay with premade groups if the match was somewhat kind of competitive...but typically you get the above situation and it's a stomp fest that's not fun at all.

Your all a bunch of wannabe crybabies. If you were good at pvp'in, or part of a premade then you wouldn't complain. Don't whine because you suck or have no friends with which to do a premade with. If you are part of a premade and still think premades suck then your just plain retarded.

 

Premades with the assistance of voice comm makes this game and any other MMO fun. Who then hell in their right minds wants to play with lousy pvp'ers whether they are on the same team or not. Jesus you people are crazy trying to sell the developers on making a scrub only warzone queue.

 

What they need to add is the damn ability to queue an 8 man premade other than ranked so all the pugs can get *********** organized BEFORE they go into the damn warzones. Then EVERYONE will be a premade if they know *** they are doing. Then you won't have friends SUPERQUEUING to get all 8 guildies in the regular WZ.

 

Hey Bioware, BTW, fix world pvp, add some benefit to killing scrubs in the open world, make the warzones larger than 7 scrubs plus me, take away the modification restrictions so that people can use whatever mods they want in any piece of gear...its called being VERSATILE!, jesus Bioware copy some of the good **** from other MMOs and get a freaking clue!

Your all a bunch of wannabe crybabies. If you were good at pvp'in, or part of a premade then you wouldn't complain. Don't whine because you suck or have no friends with which to do a premade with. If you are part of a premade and still think premades suck then your just plain retarded.

 

Premades with the assistance of voice comm makes this game and any other MMO fun. Who then hell in their right minds wants to play with lousy pvp'ers whether they are on the same team or not. Jesus you people are crazy trying to sell the developers on making a scrub only warzone queue.

 

What they need to add is the damn ability to queue an 8 man premade other than ranked so all the pugs can get *********** organized BEFORE they go into the damn warzones. Then EVERYONE will be a premade if they know *** they are doing. Then you won't have friends SUPERQUEUING to get all 8 guildies in the regular WZ.

 

Hey Bioware, BTW, fix world pvp, add some benefit to killing scrubs in the open world, make the warzones larger than 7 scrubs plus me, take away the modification restrictions so that people can use whatever mods they want in any piece of gear...its called being VERSATILE!, jesus Bioware copy some of the good **** from other MMOs and get a freaking clue!

 

not sure why but this made me lol

Isn't this what RANKED WARZONES are for?

 

Can't we just leave the Warzone 'quick-queue' for pugs and randoms and put the pre-mades where the are on a level playing field with other pre-mades?

 

Except ranked warzones require an 8 man team. A group from 2 to 4 can queue for normal warzones, and composition is much less important.

Your all a bunch of wannabe crybabies. If you were good at pvp'in, or part of a premade then you wouldn't complain. Don't whine because you suck or have no friends with which to do a premade with. If you are part of a premade and still think premades suck then your just plain retarded.

 

Premades with the assistance of voice comm makes this game and any other MMO fun. Who then hell in their right minds wants to play with lousy pvp'ers whether they are on the same team or not. Jesus you people are crazy trying to sell the developers on making a scrub only warzone queue.

 

What they need to add is the damn ability to queue an 8 man premade other than ranked so all the pugs can get *********** organized BEFORE they go into the damn warzones. Then EVERYONE will be a premade if they know *** they are doing. Then you won't have friends SUPERQUEUING to get all 8 guildies in the regular WZ.

 

Hey Bioware, BTW, fix world pvp, add some benefit to killing scrubs in the open world, make the warzones larger than 7 scrubs plus me, take away the modification restrictions so that people can use whatever mods they want in any piece of gear...its called being VERSATILE!, jesus Bioware copy some of the good **** from other MMOs and get a freaking clue!

 

Most dumbest idea ever.