While that would be nice, I dont see that happening. I think the best we can hope for is a fix to our reserver power cell and tech override cooldowns, and use those for insta casting more.

 

.....that or maybe we can pray for casting bars while moving

 

casting while moving would basically be the same as an instant ability, since the cast time for both tracer and power shot are 1.5s, which is the same as one global cooldown.

 

from a coding standpoint, changing the Muzzle Fluting skill box to 2s reduction would be the easiest thing to do. casting while moving might be a little more complicated.

 

considering they would both have the same desired result, i would prefer bioware to pursue the easier option

Hi everyone! I talked to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Commandos and Mercenaries and their situation in PvP right now, and he had this to say:

 

I think it's fair to say that Mercenaries and Commandos have escape issues. Admittedly, they can be very hard to catch when used correctly to hug corners, but a lot of that "escapability" falls aside when attacked by multiple melee enemies, at which point they just aren't quite tough enough to sustain without further escapes. We have plans for the future that should give Mercenaries and Commandos better escapes in PvP.

 

Do you guys really think escape issues are the only factor for DPS mercs commandos? They were fine before the nerfs. This is the issue with Bioware, they just don't see the issue. The main issue is we can't even burst like most of the other DPS class. Juggs, sins, muraders all have ridiculous burst now compared to mercs, yet Bioware thinks our issue is escape problems. The real issue is the DPS not the escape.

 

Why is escaping more important then being able to fight back? Are we suppose to be a target they can just follow around for a longer beat on continuously without us being able to do anything? Bioware fails and fails and fails to understand the underlying issue involving merc dps right now. I can't even stress this enough. No one is going to want to play this class very much until the DPS is actually addressed..

Edited November 8, 2012 by Individual

This thread is really heart breaking. The devs don't play the game, and it's pretty obvious from that response. We're really suppose to hug corners non stop and just run from melee? How do you even justify that? These guys are hitting us now for 5k hits thanks to smash and other abilities, and they have every gap closer in the world, but were suppose to just eat that and hug walls and try to escape. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the devs aren't involved with any pvp what so ever at this point in time. Furthermore, We're not talking about the healing mercs or commandos, we're talking about the DPS mercs commandos. The healers should have the escape abilities, while the dps should be on equal levels of other dps classes. SO SO SO SO SO SO SAD of a response.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Individual

The devs reference to "escapability" shows how little they understand how pvp is played at the top levels.

 

Right now in a match with top players, Merc Pyro damage output trails PT Pyro, Marauder and Jugg Rage by about 30%. That is on top of having less utility to the group. AND having less survivability. Merc Arsenal is frankly as bad, with the minor exception of selected situations where you need to focus fire on heavily defended targets.

 

For the people that will now inevitably chime in with the "I have no problem doing as much damage as others on my Merc", just can it. I've done 800k damage on my Merc Pyro, and yes almost always score highest in wzs. But I've done better on my Mara in full Recruit gear, and that was before the Smash Monkey era. For those that think Merc dps is competitive, go ask the best ranked team on your server if they would bring along your Merc dps into a rwz. LOL.

 

Despite these undeniable facts, the devs continue to believe that Merc dps is too high. Why? Because their ingame meta average stats tell them so. But those meta averages are biased because the only people left playing Merc dps are the best geared, most experienced, most stubborn players who won't abandon their class. On my server I can go a full week without seeing another Merc pyro in wz. So 99% of the Merc Pyro meta averages on my server come from my results. And thus Merc Pyro meta averages on my server are much higher than for any other class. BW sees that and resolves to nerf Merc dps. And they will continue to do so until the very best Merc dps players have productivity nerfed down to be equal to the average, undergeared players in a FotM class.

 

BW needs to abandon the reliance on their ingame meta average stats to guide play balance. They need to balance based on best practices for each subclass. Until that happens, nothing is going to improve.

 

B@5t@rd!! So you're the reason we keep getting nerfed!!! Stahp it!! Seriously tho, yes I feel that dmg needs to be tweaked in our favor just a smidge. In RWZ's I see a huge difference in dmg done by VG's/Pt's. Juggs I can care less about since it's all aoe and Mara's will have a hard time out dps'ing me as I can shut most of them down. As far as escape-ability, yes, we need that too. I can get away from one person, but throw another at me and it's coytins! Most other classes have utilities that will protect them against multiple attackers and not just one. Concussion charge, cryo-grenade and our snare are all single target. But as I said in another thread, give use an ability that increases our dmg depending on how close we are to our target (ex: 30m = 0%; 10m = 15%; 4m = 30% dmg increase) and that could possibly fix the class.

While that would be nice, I dont see that happening. I think the best we can hope for is a fix to our reserver power cell and tech override cooldowns, and use those for insta casting more.

 

.....that or maybe we can pray for casting bars while moving

 

IMO instant cast tracer and power shot is the most important change needed. That 1 single change would make the most difference while having literally no effect on PvE.

 

It would be an easy enhancement because the functionality is already there with Power Surge. They just need to flag Tracer and Power Shot to be always Power Surged, and then update some text here and there. 1 day fix excluding testing.

 

A fundamental problem with Merc is that if we want to fight back, we have to stand still and die in the process. This would eliminate the need to stand still. Standing still is for Snipers. Who uses 2 pistols and stands still?

Edited November 8, 2012 by DarthBloodloss

IMO instant cast tracer and power shot is the most important change needed. That 1 single change would make the most difference while having literally no effect on PvE.

 

It would be an easy enhancement because the functionality is already there with Power Surge. They just need to flag Tracer and Power Shot to be always Power Surged, and then update some text here and there. 1 day fix excluding testing.

 

A fundamental problem with Merc is that if we want to fight back, we have to stand still and die in the process. This would eliminate the need to stand still. Standing still is for Snipers. Who uses 2 pistols and stands still?

 

I agree!!! HUGE difference in PvP, no change for PvE. The amount of damage that can be done is already limited by ammo/heat. That 'check' remains intact.

First of all my impression of being merc/commando in present time.

I feel like infantry grunt when I must fight with gang of special forces guys - all got high tech gear, unbelievable skills etc. What I got? My weapon, some grenades/rockets, first aid kit, nothing much. I must hide, use natural environment (sometimes I see i'm better with hiding than some snipers/GS). Must use guerrilla tactics without fancy stealth tech. For now this AC is really tough...

 

Feel like common storm trooper in SW movies when all other are like Han Solo, Darth Vader, Luke etc.

 

But enough of my thoughts

 

And here my ideas:

I mostly play as pyro/assault tho I got experience in Arsenal/Gunnery too. Nice thing will gonna be instant apply of combustible gas cylinder/plasma cell like PT/Vang. Can be putted instead of useless talent that improve alacrity (for pyro/assault tree). Still thinking about ability (something instant , 30 m range but with cd). From other posts, I think that short time speed is critical to have and in arsenal/gunnery - root durning duration of unload/full auto. Also immunity for interrupts when in power barrier. Oh and get back 30 m stun!

 

For the end - mr Austin Peckenpaugh really thinks that we gonna hide behind corners? So be like snipers but whitout cover and any benefits, yes? Whit bunch of chanel/cast skills? I hope BW got someone a way more competent because this guy is clueless and ruin us as for this time, this AC is unplayable for most ppl.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Pefny

impressions and anecdotes aside, if bioware wants to make 1 simple change to Merc/Commando that would have the largest impact, it would be instant cast Tracer Missile and Power Shot.

 

It wouldnt even require a lot of coding. All that would need to be done is change Muzzle Fluting from .5s cast reduction to 2s cast reduction. If this takes a dev any longer than 15 minutes to do, I would be very surprised. The least bioware could do for us would be to make that one change on the PTS and see what happens

The devs reference to "escapability" shows how little they understand how pvp is played at the top levels.

 

Right now in a match with top players, Merc Pyro damage output trails PT Pyro, Marauder and Jugg Rage by about 30%. That is on top of having less utility to the group. AND having less survivability. Merc Arsenal is frankly as bad, with the minor exception of selected situations where you need to focus fire on heavily defended targets.

 

For the people that will now inevitably chime in with the "I have no problem doing as much damage as others on my Merc", just can it. I've done 800k damage on my Merc Pyro, and yes almost always score highest in wzs. But I've done better on my Mara in full Recruit gear, and that was before the Smash Monkey era. For those that think Merc dps is competitive, go ask the best ranked team on your server if they would bring along your Merc dps into a rwz. LOL.

 

Despite these undeniable facts, the devs continue to believe that Merc dps is too high. Why? Because their ingame meta average stats tell them so. But those meta averages are biased because the only people left playing Merc dps are the best geared, most experienced, most stubborn players who won't abandon their class. On my server I can go a full week without seeing another Merc pyro in wz. So 99% of the Merc Pyro meta averages on my server come from my results. And thus Merc Pyro meta averages on my server are much higher than for any other class. BW sees that and resolves to nerf Merc dps. And they will continue to do so until the very best Merc dps players have productivity nerfed down to be equal to the average, undergeared players in a FotM class.

 

BW needs to abandon the reliance on their ingame meta average stats to guide play balance. They need to balance based on best practices for each subclass. Until that happens, nothing is going to improve.

 

The commando's dps is predicated on the fact that you have to not be attacked, but currently we have no way to escape effectively when attacked in order to dps. But if a commando is allowed to dps effectively, we're essentially close to the top of the totem pole.

casting while moving would basically be the same as an instant ability, since the cast time for both tracer and power shot are 1.5s, which is the same as one global cooldown.

 

from a coding standpoint, changing the Muzzle Fluting skill box to 2s reduction would be the easiest thing to do. casting while moving might be a little more complicated.

 

considering they would both have the same desired result, i would prefer bioware to pursue the easier option

 

No it would not be the same...you can't interrupt and instant ability...

No it would not be the same...you can't interrupt and instant ability...

 

thats all you took away from that?

 

yes, you cannot interrupt an instant. casting while moving would still leave us vulnerable to interrupts, which is part of the problem with merc. as far as mobility, 6 of one, half a dozen of another, which is what i was refering to.

 

instant cast is the optimal solution here. merc has no mobility/limited mobility in its DPS specs. in both specs, it is woefully vulnerable to interrupts. instant cast tracer missile and power shot solves both of those problems, which will allow merc to put up a fight against the hordes of melee/hybrid melee players that are out there.

 

one change, and bioware could alleviate a lot of the headaches merc players have

 

edit: i just did rateds for the first time in a long time. enemy team was fully comprised of melee classes. absolutely nothing i could do against the endless chain of leaps, interrupts, roots, and crapload of CC. staying out of melee range is impossible, which make casting impossible without ensuring your imminent death

Edited November 9, 2012 by cashogy

thats all you took away from that?

 

yes, you cannot interrupt an instant. casting while moving would still leave us vulnerable to interrupts, which is part of the problem with merc. as far as mobility, 6 of one, half a dozen of another, which is what i was refering to.

 

instant cast is the optimal solution here. merc has no mobility/limited mobility in its DPS specs. in both specs, it is woefully vulnerable to interrupts. instant cast tracer missile and power shot solves both of those problems, which will allow merc to put up a fight against the hordes of melee/hybrid melee players that are out there.

 

one change, and bioware could alleviate a lot of the headaches merc players have

 

Each word i agree with.

How much of a difference do you think it would make if they made First Reponder (2 pts 100% chance 5% alacrity for 6 seconds) stack instead of refresh? As it is now you can have pretty much perma 5% alacrity boost, but having semi-perma 25% to 30% alacrity would be nice for all the casting abilities...

How much of a difference do you think it would make if they made First Reponder (2 pts 100% chance 5% alacrity for 6 seconds) stack instead of refresh? As it is now you can have pretty much perma 5% alacrity boost, but having semi-perma 25% to 30% alacrity would be nice for all the casting abilities...

 

we're talking about fixing the DPS trees. i do not want to be forced to spend 7 points in the combat medic tree in order to be viable.

 

however this gets fixed, it needs to be done in the least intrusive way possible. ive already suggested changing the muzzle fluting box, which is something that every DPS build should already have.

just another Merc agreeing that some changes could be needed to give us a fighting chance in pvp. I'm Arsenal spec and everything I read here sounds useful.

I remember elemental shamans in WoW were pretty much a turret class too and had the same issues as dps commandos do. What did Blizz do to fix them? Or are they still crap? Maybe we can use some of their ideas here.

bump, lets not let this thread lose steam

So I finally joined a good pvp guild and one of the first things they told me is that they're not going to get me for ranked when the season comes, not because of my skills as a gamer but because the class sucks.

 

Yo, moderator boy, when you ask pvp senior dev whateverisname (since they're too busy partying instead of reading their own game forums), tell him that, and also tell him 1.4 merc/commando changes sucked donkey balls.

Edited November 12, 2012 by yoomazir

So I finally joined a good pvp guild and one of the first things they told me is that they're not going to get me for ranked when the season comes, not because of my skills as a gamer but because the class sucks.

 

Yo, moderator boy, when you ask pvp senior dev whateverisname (since they're too busy partying instead of reading their own game forums), tell him that, and also tell him 1.4 merc/commando changes sucked donkey balls.

 

This, a thousand times this!!! Even I wouldn't take me to a ranked PvP group were something "important" like rating is involved, not because the player is not competent and can't push the class to it's utterly stupefyingly dysfunctional limit but simply because the class is terrible and brings absolutely nothing crucial to the table. Healing spec is decent at best but I'd still feel better bringing a Sorc or Operative instead of a Commando simply because Sorcs have pulls and speed for Hutball and Operatives are just plain and simply beast healers and are sufficiently slippery to survive on their own, Commando healers can do neither outside of their 2min bubble.

So I finally joined a good pvp guild and one of the first things they told me is that they're not going to get me for ranked when the season comes, not because of my skills as a gamer but because the class sucks.

 

Yo, moderator boy, when you ask pvp senior dev whateverisname (since they're too busy partying instead of reading their own game forums), tell him that, and also tell him 1.4 merc/commando changes sucked donkey balls.

 

yep, im in the same situation.

 

when f2p hits i will be spending all my cartel coins on XP boosts, and will be trying to power level a powertech through warzones. at least i wont have to really grind all the gear again, as i can transfer it through legacy gear

Still nothing on this? im BM/WH and i get smashed by everyone! commando's really need help.

Still nothing on this? im BM/WH and i get smashed by everyone! commando's really need help.

 

at the earliest, we wont hear anything from the devs until after 1.5 launches

at the earliest, we wont hear anything from the devs until after 1.5 launches

 

Yet we have been asking for months now...

yep, im in the same situation.

 

when f2p hits i will be spending all my cartel coins on XP boosts, and will be trying to power level a powertech through warzones. at least i wont have to really grind all the gear again, as i can transfer it through legacy gear

 

I would totally do this too, but my WH gear is the healing set. /wrist lol

I would totally do this too, but my WH gear is the healing set. /wrist lol

 

bummer lol

 

ive actually been trying out the heal spec, using my Eliminator set. once i get my powertech to 50, i will probably get a BM combat medic set for my merc so that it is still semi useful

 

Yet we have been asking for months now...

 

trust me, we all know how you feel. with the upcoming release of the new warzones, i feel like there is a greater chance for some PvP changes to make it into the game. hopefully Merc/Mando gets some much needed love

Edited November 12, 2012 by cashogy