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What's up with the recruit gear LI HM queuing?


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I see more recruit gear people queuing for LI HM than I do on the tier 1 flashpoints, it's starting to make me think if there may be UI design issue with people just selecting the content at the top of the group finder list due to laziness.

 

I do think that harder content like this shouldn't be as easy to navigate to, maybe only be able to enable tier 2 queuing in prefs?

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Had a recruit mk2 dps guardian join us on LI yesterday, shook my head when I saw his HPs were just short of 14k. Then I decided not to be a gear snob, 2 of us were significantly overgeared, the healer who joined was geared and we rolled through it, he died once when he was punted into the lava and the savrak which meant I had to work a little harder but no big deal and the rest was a breeze.

 

Recruit mk2 is comparable to columi and the instance is geared for tionese as stipulated by the devs, you just need a clue about the mechanics. The recruit geared guardian didnt even know that, but listened and had a clue and everything went well.

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If they're DPS I generally don't care. A recruit geared healer or tank I worry about somewhat, though, because there's a good chance that if they're in recruit and queue'd for it they don't know the fights well enough to make up for their gear.
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If they're DPS I generally don't care. A recruit geared healer or tank I worry about somewhat, though, because there's a good chance that if they're in recruit and queue'd for it they don't know the fights well enough to make up for their gear.

 

Thats a fair point

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I saw a dps in Recruit gear do okay numbers in a HM LI pug last week, but a full group would be an issue.

 

1 Player in Recruit gear is fine,

2 players in Recruit gear makes things fun

3 players in Recruit gear makes things a challenge

4 Players in Recruit gear makes things a genuine challenge.

 

Can it be done? Yes, but I generally don't do it with 3 Recruits simply because unless they're really good, we're going to wipe a couple times.

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I've actually had this happen a number of times in LI, made worse by the fact that fresh 50 recruit geared DPS come in without knowing any of the boss fights, barely knowing their own class, assuming the Group Finder has built in protections to prevent them from getting in over their heads, such that they believe that they're *intended* to go straight from hitting 50 to doing LI.

 

I think a lot of the problem comes from what WoW does with their groupfinder at 50 (required average i-level to even get into queues). Many people, especially new players coming from WoW to TOR, assume that, if WoW does it, every other game does it as well.

 

I'm still curious as to how BW plans on instituting their guideline/requirement system since the simplest method (requiring or recommending a certain average gear rating) would still allow pure Recruit geared players through because, even though the content is designed with Columi gear in mind (126 rating), Recruit gear has a 132 rating. It's just so much worse because so much of the itemization is devoted to Expertise. Without creating separate effective ratings for PvP and PvE, about the only solution that I can arrive at simply is recommending certain levels of hp, which simply inflates the value of hp in the mind if the average player (especially tanks, when most tanks realized long ago that hp stacking is simply bad).

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I've actually had this happen a number of times in LI, made worse by the fact that fresh 50 recruit geared DPS come in without knowing any of the boss fights, barely knowing their own class, assuming the Group Finder has built in protections to prevent them from getting in over their heads, such that they believe that they're *intended* to go straight from hitting 50 to doing LI.

 

I think a lot of the problem comes from what WoW does with their groupfinder at 50 (required average i-level to even get into queues). Many people, especially new players coming from WoW to TOR, assume that, if WoW does it, every other game does it as well.

 

I'm still curious as to how BW plans on instituting their guideline/requirement system since the simplest method (requiring or recommending a certain average gear rating) would still allow pure Recruit geared players through because, even though the content is designed with Columi gear in mind (126 rating), Recruit gear has a 132 rating. It's just so much worse because so much of the itemization is devoted to Expertise. Without creating separate effective ratings for PvP and PvE, about the only solution that I can arrive at simply is recommending certain levels of hp, which simply inflates the value of hp in the mind if the average player (especially tanks, when most tanks realized long ago that hp stacking is simply bad).

 

Tionese is 126 rating, Columi is 136 and Rakata is 140 just FYI :o Which isn't even including the fact that so much of that stats is dedicated to expertise like you said

Edited by SharpG
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Tionese is 126 rating, Columi is 136 and Rakata is 140 just FYI :o Which isn't even including the fact that so much of that stats is dedicated to expertise like you said

 

There isnt "so much of that stats is dedicated to expertise", some of the stats are take up with expertise but if you compare them its not a huge deal at all. Recruit MK1 was better than tionese in all aspects bar 4 endurance, MK2 beats tionese hands down and LI is factored around that gear level as per developer comments.

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lack of knowledge is the main reason. also many ex wow players are used to its lfd mechanic on allowing or not people into certain content. player knowledge has been dumbed down a lot over the years with addons, in game mechanics, websites and such but that is a whole book in itself. all of us now must deal with wows ex player base however.

 

whether or not recruit gear is good enough is a debatable topic as lag, spec and player skill will play a higher role than gear. a unskilled player who cant learn the mechanics will never clear the zone unless carried despite how well geared he is.

 

personally i feel information which bioware wants to provide is a step in the right direction on this issue. allowing or not allowing will and has taught players nothing and will only perpetuate the problem and not solve it.

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I'm sorry but most fresh 50's coming in with recruit gear have little to no idea on how the fights go and most of the time leveled up as pvp vs pve. True story. Tbese people have a pvp play style thwt can be seen a mile a way. Lone rangers, don't follow the tanks lead, wrong target priorities and the list goes on and on. The recruit gear has so much expertise on it, that it is NOT the same as Columi. A pve player nows this. They have been preparing for this three levels before 50. Having people que for LI HM in recruit gear is the same thing as all pve geared people jumping in to war zones.

 

I'll take your recuit geared players into LI HM when you take my Columi geared smuggler into ranked warzones.

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I'm sorry but most fresh 50's coming in with recruit gear have little to no idea on how the fights go and most of the time leveled up as pvp vs pve. True story. Tbese people have a pvp play style thwt can be seen a mile a way. Lone rangers, don't follow the tanks lead, wrong target priorities and the list goes on and on. The recruit gear has so much expertise on it, that it is NOT the same as Columi. A pve player nows this. They have been preparing for this three levels before 50. Having people que for LI HM in recruit gear is the same thing as all pve geared people jumping in to war zones.

 

I'll take your recuit geared players into LI HM when you take my Columi geared smuggler into ranked warzones.

 

Maybe, but I'll take someone on an alt if they're good at HM LI on their main. If someone can faceroll HM LI on their Columi geared character why not let them try it on their recruit geared character?

 

It's not impossible to beat HM LI in a gear with ONLY Recruit gear, although it's certainly less boring than doing it in full Columi :cool:

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