Putting forth Darth Krayt once again.

Edit: I think the rest should look something like this:

8. Darth Krayt

9. Ulic Qel-Droma

10. Darth Sion or Darth Malgus

Putting forth Darth Krayt once again.

 

Edit: I think the rest should look something like this:

 

8. Darth Krayt

9. Ulic Qel-Droma

10. Darth Sion or Darth Malgus

I agree with number 8 and 9 essentially (think Ulic should be above Krayt) and for 10 I am not sure about either of them and think we should also think about Talon, possibly Lumiya (she was the most skilled sith for her time for a while and it did require Jar'kai to overcome her Light whip for a lot of people for a long time Luke became the only one that I know of that could beat her with just the single blade, aka most people had to fight her in a manner that her style was weak against). and Possibly even Tahiri Veila or Darth Plaegus, all in all not sure about number 10 many candidates.

i apologise if this has already been discussed but didn't have time to read all the threads

Darth bane has he been considered although not the most powerful in the force or lightsabre he was pretty much single handedly responsible for bringing the grand plan to life

were would darth sideous be to most people he was considered the most powerful sith lord ever to live (not my opinion) think about how different the galaxy would have been if it wasn't for bane the dark brotherhood would have been successful in destroying themselves and the sith whether they won or not (all speculation of course)

i think he has earned the right to be on that list after all a sharp mind and a vision for the future is pretty much what makes any sith lord successful because brute strength and power are proven failures next to cunning and deception

don't hate me for my comments please xD

i apologise if this has already been discussed but didn't have time to read all the threads

 

Darth bane has he been considered although not the most powerful in the force or lightsabre he was pretty much single handedly responsible for bringing the grand plan to life

 

were would darth sideous be to most people he was considered the most powerful sith lord ever to live (not my opinion) think about how different the galaxy would have been if it wasn't for bane the dark brotherhood would have been successful in destroying themselves and the sith whether they won or not (all speculation of course)

i think he has earned the right to be on that list after all a sharp mind and a vision for the future is pretty much what makes any sith lord successful because brute strength and power are proven failures next to cunning and deception

 

don't hate me for my comments please xD

There is no reason to hate you for your comment. But, this is a list of Lightsaber duelists, nothing else, and you yourself noted that Bane is not the very best in that regard. Bane could make #10 on this list of Lightsaber duelists, but I very much doubt it.

Putting forth Darth Krayt once again.

 

Edit: I think the rest should look something like this:

 

8. Darth Krayt

9. Ulic Qel-Droma

10. Darth Sion or Darth Malgus

His mastery over Djem So seems far more refined.

The only problem I have with the list the OP put up is Darth Vader at number 4. Which Darth Vader are we referring to?

A. The Darth Vader that:

- Dueled Darth Tyranus and killed him?

- Marched on the Jedi Temple and slaughtered all the Jedi and the Younglings within?

- Dueled Obi Wan Kenobi and lost on Mustafar.

or

B. The Darth Vader that:

- killed an older, out of practice Obi Wan Kenobi on the Death Star?

- Had a close call against his son, who was equivalent of a Padawan, during a fierce duel on Bespin?

- failed to protect the Death Star from being destroyed over Yavin Four?

- dueled his son, now a Jedi Knight, aboard he Second Death Star, and lost?

He lost sooo much when he was placed into that life support suit. Only the newly crowned Darth Vader from ROTS should be considered number 4 on the list. The Darth Vader from the OT easily falls several places on that list.

The only problem I have with the list the OP put up is Darth Vader at number 4. Which Darth Vader are we referring to?

 

A. The Darth Vader that:

- Dueled Darth Tyranus and killed him?

- Marched on the Jedi Temple and slaughtered all the Jedi and the Younglings within?

- Dueled Obi Wan Kenobi and lost on Mustafar.

 

or

 

B. The Darth Vader that:

- killed an older, out of practice Obi Wan Kenobi on the Death Star?

- Had a close call against his son, who was equivalent of a Padawan, during a fierce duel on Bespin?

- failed to protect the Death Star from being destroyed over Yavin Four?

- dueled his son, now a Jedi Knight, aboard he Second Death Star, and lost?

 

He lost sooo much when he was placed into that life support suit. Only the newly crowned Darth Vader from ROTS should be considered number 4 on the list. The Darth Vader from the OT easily falls several places on that list.

The Darth Vader from the OT is a better duelist than his younger pre suit self. The fact that he worked with his suit rather than against it and made his own hybrid form incorporating deadly techniques from several of the lightsaber forms, which would be unique in itself shows. The only thing that pre-suit Anakin has over Vader, is speed but even then Vader post suit has moved rather quick and makes up for it anyway in his defense and experience.

Also what close call are you speaking of against Luke on Bespin? The shoulder hit? That wasn't really anything threatening, that was just a glancing blow. Besides Vader was holding back, remember he was trying to turn Luke not kill him.

On the Death Star 2, Luke tapped into his rage to defeat Vader, He didn't outright beat him in saber dueling, before that moment the two were dueling as perfect equals. Plus Luke at that point had become powerful and better at dueling.

The Darth Vader from the OT is a better duelist than his younger pre suit self. The fact that he worked with his suit rather than against it and made his own hybrid form incorporating deadly techniques from several of the lightsaber forms, which would be unique in itself shows. The only thing that pre-suit Anakin has over Vader, is speed but even then Vader post suit has moved rather quick and makes up for it anyway in his defense and experience.

His ability to use the Force had diminished since the events on Mustafar. Duelist is nothing without the Force. That's why General Grievous was no match for Obi Wan on Utapau. The Force.

Also what close call are you speaking of against Luke on Bespin? The shoulder hit? That wasn't really anything threatening, that was just a glancing blow. Besides Vader was holding back, remember he was trying to turn Luke not kill him.

That shoulder hit hurt, as evidenced by his cry and the fury immediately following. If memory serves, that arm was badly damaged following the fight. Vader did not expect Skywalker to land that blow. It surprised him and he hurried to finish the fight, cause there was a small chance that Luke could strike a killing blow.

On the Death Star 2, Luke tapped into his rage to defeat Vader, He didn't outright beat him in saber dueling, before that moment the two were dueling as perfect equals. Plus Luke at that point had become powerful and better at dueling.

I wouldn't say Luke became better at dueling, but I will agree that Rage might have been the deciding factor at that point.

I concur, at least on 8 and 9 - I think Bane would be a better choice for 10.

 

His mastery over Djem So seems far more refined.

Forgot about Bane.

His ability to use the Force had diminished since the events on Mustafar. Duelist is nothing without the Force. That's why General Grievous was no match for Obi Wan on Utapau. The Force.

 

 

 

That shoulder hit hurt, as evidenced by his cry and the fury immediately following. If memory serves, that arm was badly damaged following the fight. Vader did not expect Skywalker to land that blow. It surprised him and he hurried to finish the fight, cause there was a small chance that Luke could strike a killing blow.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say Luke became better at dueling, but I will agree that Rage might have been the deciding factor at that point.

1. His potential dimminished, not his power. He became far more powerful post suit then pre-suit.

2. It was a glancing blow, though I don't recall his arm being damaged it seemed fine to me. Though I ain't reading anywhere where Vader wanted to hurry and finish the fight. Still though Vader was holding back his full ability anyway.

3. Actually yes Luke did become better at dueling as noted..

For the first time, the thought entered Vader's consciousness that his son might best him. He was astounded by the strength Luke had acquired since their last duel, in the Cloud City—not to mention the boy's timing, which was honed to a thought's-breath.

 

-ROTJ novelization.

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

 

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

 

--Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #111

Also noted here. They were as equals and Luke tapping into his rage, gave him what was needed to finish the duel.

The Darth Vader from the OT is a better duelist than his younger pre suit self. The fact that he worked with his suit rather than against it and made his own hybrid form incorporating deadly techniques from several of the lightsaber forms, which would be unique in itself shows. The only thing that pre-suit Anakin has over Vader, is speed but even then Vader post suit has moved rather quick and makes up for it anyway in his defense and experience.

No he isnt. Lucas says it himself in the behind the scenes of the Phantom Menace that Vader was a better duelist in the PT due to not being a "crippled half droid half man". He alludes to the fact that OT Vader,Obi-wan and Luke all suck with a lightsaber. Which makes perfect sense when you compared the OT duels to the PT.

No he isnt. Lucas says it himself in the behind the scenes of the Phantom Menace that Vader was a better duelist in the PT due to not being a "crippled half droid half man". He alludes to the fact that OT Vader,Obi-wan and Luke all suck with a lightsaber. Which makes perfect sense when you compared the OT duels to the PT.

Indeed one would think that one would improve as a duelist after 20 years of constant practice.

Yet multiple canonical sources state that Vader improved as a duelist since his immolation on Mustafar, specifically he achieved a level of mastery over all seven forms of lightsaber combat and incorporated that into his now perfected Djem So style which was far more effective and refined than before.

 

Indeed one would think that one would improve as a duelist after 20 years of constant practice.

Lets be real here, if we compare the duels from the OT to the PT...I really do think that ROTS Anakin/Vader wipes the floor with OT Vader. It falls into line with everything Lucas says. Im sure your canonical sources are just from the EU...As we all know, Lucas words > EU

Lets be real here, if we compare the duels from the OT to the PT...I really do think that ROTS Anakin/Vader wipes the floor with OT Vader. It falls into line with everything Lucas says. Im sure your canonical sources are just from the EU...As we all know, Lucas words > EU

Indeed the idea that a younger, less experienced, less powerful and less knowledgeable incarnation of Vader could defeat and altogether superior one just doesn't really make any sense.

Lets be real here, if we compare the duels from the OT to the PT...I really do think that ROTS Anakin/Vader wipes the floor with OT Vader. It falls into line with everything Lucas says. Im sure your canonical sources are just from the EU...As we all know, Lucas words > EU

Actually no the person who did the choreography and the actually did the fighting in Vader's suit was a master swordsman and every move that was made in the OT was supposed to be a refined sword technique. The person who did it for the PT wanted every jedi to have his own distict style based on personality and thus each had their own weaknesses. Vader's and Luke's forms were made with out weaknesses in mind while the PT forms were created with weaknesses in mind. Most of the info on exactly what Vader and Luke's froms are come from the analization of the master swordsman who choreographed the PT. He is the one who said they use a highly effective and powerful hybrid form mostly centered around Djem So. He is the one who recognizes the skill at which the OT characters fought at, the one who did the Choreography for the PT trilogy and invented the idea of Saber Forms is the one who acknowledged Vader's increase in skill.

Actually no the person who did the choreography and the actually did the fighting in Vader's suit was a master swordsman and every move that was made in the OT was supposed to be a refined sword technique. The person who did it for the PT wanted every jedi to have his own distict style based on personality and thus each had their own weaknesses. Vader's and Luke's forms were made with out weaknesses in mind while the PT forms were created with weaknesses in mind. Most of the info on exactly what Vader and Luke's froms are come from the analization of the master swordsman who choreographed the PT. He is the one who said they use a highly effective and powerful hybrid form mostly centered around Djem So. He is the one who recognizes the skill at which the OT characters fought at, the one who did the Choreography for the PT trilogy and invented the idea of Saber Forms is the one who acknowledged Vader's increase in skill.

Thats irrelevant considering coming from good old lucas mouth that OT Vader/Obi-wan/Luke dont know how to use a lightsaber properly.

Thats irrelevant considering coming from good old lucas mouth that OT Vader/Obi-wan/Luke dont know how to use a lightsaber properly.

Not really, he just said they were different not that they were inferior or didn't know what they are doing. Just different and a little slower that has nothing to do with skill. Different is not neccisarily worse, and honestly its not irrelevant because Lucas is not the master of Sword combat in the Star Wars universe that belongs to Leland Chee and the Choreographer of the PT so if the PT Choreographer recognizes Vader as a master of multiple forms he is a master of multiple forms after all Lucas gave him the responsibility of creating the sword combat and retro fitting it back to the OT so in this case it is entirely Relevant as Lucas gave the reins for explaining Sword combat to his Choreographer and Master Swordsman. It may not have been Lucas's original intent what came of it, but that does not change what came of it after all Luke Skywalker was originally Anakin Starkiller that doesn't change the fact that Luke is Luke and not Anakin.

Yeah I don't think there's much point to this discussion, we all know what Vader was capable of.

Anyway I think I'm going to put up Krayt for #8.