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Frusterated with Level cap increase


kirorx

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Here is the thing. I have yet to play a game where level cap increases is a "thing" and there seems to be alot of people behind the idea.

 

Personally, this seems obnoxious (though, maybe i dont understand how it works)

 

SWTOR is HUGE on rolling Alts, i currently have 6 level 50 characters, I have been trying to get these toons all geared up over the last year but every 2 or 3 months there has been some drastic change to gear so its been more or less a pain keeping up. (this goes back to centuarian gear and BM Bags, so its mostly pvp gear).

 

So i have some concerns....

 

1) What happens to my gear, now?

 

Do i have to start over with grinding ranked comms over and over....frankly that gets old, i was enjoying my success in completing a war hero set with one of my toons like this month.

I want to pvp to pvp, not to grind all the time.

 

2) What happens to level 50 content now?

 

When my character gets to 55, do all the daily areas become low level content? Does this mean that i am stuck playing on Makeb all the time?

 

This is a not complaint, its something i dont understand the need for and maybe someone can explain it a bit better.

 

If this means just regrinding all gear again, then i will most likely just pick one character to progress with and retire the rest of them. Who, will be the big question...hmmm. :cool:

Edited by kirorx
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Here is the thing. I have yet to play a game where level cap increases is a "thing" and there seems to be alot of people behind the idea.

 

Personally, this seems obnoxious (though, maybe i dont understand how it works)

 

SWTOR is HUGE on rolling Alts, i currently have 6 level 50 characters, I have been trying to get these toons all geared up over the last year but every 2 or 3 months there has been some drastic change to gear so its been more or less a pain keeping up. (this goes back to centuarian gear and BM Bags, so its mostly pvp gear).

 

So i have some concerns....

 

1) What happens to my gear, now?

 

Do i have to start over with grinding ranked comms over and over....frankly that gets old, i was enjoying my success in completing a war hero set with one of my toons like this month.

I want to pvp to pvp, not to grind all the time.

 

2) What happens to level 50 content now?

 

When my character gets to 55, do all the daily areas become low level content? Does this mean that i am stuck playing on Makeb all the time?

 

This is a not complaint, its something i dont understand the need for and maybe someone can explain it a bit better.

 

If this means just regrinding all gear again, then i will most likely just pick one character to progress with and retire the rest of them. Who, will be the big question...hmmm. :cool:

 

Supposedly they are gonna scale up dailys and other ops. Ex boarding party nightmare mode (as opposed to hard mode).

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The mere existence of this thread makes me think some of you have no clue what MMOs are about and/or have never played a MMO before. Level cap increases are the norm, not the exception. The reasons are always the same and the benefits and disadvantages are almost always the same. The issue of being 'required' to purchase the expansion is also not new. WoW has been doing this for half a decade, Everquest has been doing it for a decade, LotRO has been doing it for 3+ years, Guild Wars has expansions (though I don't know how required they are).

 

Be frustrated, fine, but get used to it because this is only the first of the expansions. If you're new to MMOs I suggest you do some research, if you're not then you need to quit whining over an industry standard.

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The idea is to keep you busy even if you have got 6 50s...

 

What makes you think you will only have 1 55 then?

You can alt your way to 55 with all of them, less appealing if no personal storyline I agree.

 

That being said, I do agree with the scepticism to the level cap increase.

I don't think it was a smart move in the first expansion, and I sincerely hope they do not just "raise" old content(or even gear), even though that would save them somehow in the endgame perspective.

That would be legacy system all over again.

 

I really hope they can get the 55 endgame rolling and don't come up with the same "people were blasting through it lightning fast" excuse again later.

 

industry standard

While I do agree mostly with what you said, please you yourself take a look at the right industry, and not WOW as a comparison, you will find there is smarter ways.

Edited by Segaki
typo
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Oh endgame concept how I hate thee

Why is it so difficult for MMOGs to have a linear progression?

 

I dream for day a MMO don't forces you to level for weeks so than you can compete with other players, and then months later make your efforts become useless

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My issue isn't necessarily the level cap increase itself, it's the fact that each time it happens the game companies feel the need to give us some new ability that we have to try and find a spot for on our action bars. After a few expansions it get's a little ridiculous.
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While I do agree mostly with what you said, please you yourself take a look at the right industry, and not WOW as a comparison, you will find there is smarter ways.

 

WoW was not my only comparison. If you actually read my post you'd see several major MMO titles listed. These are only ones I have played, and I know several others have had expansions with level cap increases. Next time you see 'WoW', try to continue reading instead of reacting.

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My issue isn't necessarily the level cap increase itself, it's the fact that each time it happens the game companies feel the need to give us some new ability that we have to try and find a spot for on our action bars. After a few expansions it get's a little ridiculous.

 

you have 6 bars now, you need more?

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The idea is to keep you busy even if you have got 6 50s...

 

What makes you think you will only have 1 55 then?

You can alt your way to 55 with all of them, less appealing if no personal storyline I agree.

 

 

TBH, i have only been focus on 3 out of the 6 50's atm with regards to endgame content. The only reason i have so many is simply for the storylines. I dont really mind focusing on 1 or maybe 2 characters as I'm not really an altaholic just getting the main storylines out of the way/

 

If the storylines are different i will play through them though, but when it comes to end game gear I am going to stick it out with my tankassin only, after all he was my first toon.

 

(edit) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5600140#edit5600140 Guess it will not be new storylines but 1 of each faction. Just faound that one :D

Edited by kirorx
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My issue isn't necessarily the level cap increase itself, it's the fact that each time it happens the game companies feel the need to give us some new ability that we have to try and find a spot for on our action bars. After a few expansions it get's a little ridiculous.

 

Agreed. I've always been Ok with talent tree tweaks but I hate talent tree overhauls and complete changes.

 

As far as gear goes, I do do hate they everything I played to get goes obsolete pretty fast but that is how it goes in most MMO's I've played. I'll just have to deal with it.

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If people bought this game thinking that there would never be level cap increases, then they are fools. It was very clear what type of MMO this was going to be. Ops and PVP grinding at endgame to get the best gear. Then when the cap increases and new content releases, the grind begins again.

 

You knew this would happen.

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City of Heroes was the last MMO I loved playing and it didn't have a level cap increase for years. It released with a lower cap, but they all along told us the cap would get raised at a certain point, and gear never really became obsolete because it was done in a very innovative way (Unlike SWtoR).

 

Once the cap because 50 it stayed that way for ~5 years, then mysteriously died a year or so after deciding to pursue an endgame and increasing the level cap.

 

Personally I knew it was going to happen and escaped when it was first introduced because when a game focusses too much on endgame content the actual game begind to suffer. People should play MMO's for fun not to 'complete the game' or to compete with others, if the only fun the game can provide is new shinies for people to chase then something has gone wrong somewhere.

 

Edit: Even worse is how SWtoR followed on from WoW's flawed example where the actual game you play while levelling up is nothing like the end game. Fine they have flashpoints for 4 man teams during levelling but the actual end game is 8 or 16 man, which means that a lot of people get there and just don't know what to do. For some people that is mechanics, for others it is just about not being able to find another 7 people to play with.

 

Another thing CoH got right was that the whole game followed the same path all the way along, you could join teams of up to 8 and the content scaled to the size of the team, and the eqivalent of flashpoints had minimum team sizes, but again scaled depending on who you had with you. It encouraged people to join large teams right from the off and everyone knew what to expect when they finally did get to the endgame.

 

if I want to bring enough friends to play endgame into SWtoR I have to ignore half of them while levelling up, or if I don't want to ignore people it means only having 3 friends then having to recruit 4 more at endgame, I don't think it works well.

 

Back on topic I think raising the cap only works if you repeat what is good about the game again, and that it is done for more reasons that simply to appease those who play for shinies.

Edited by _Darkstar
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People should play MMO's for fun not to 'complete the game' or to compete with others, if the only fun the game can provide is new shinies for people to chase then something has gone wrong somewhere

 

While I agree people should play for fun, some find the gear grind fun. I don't know why, but they do.

 

And before you argue with me, go check out the various Guild Wars 2 forums. One of their primary complaints there is a LACK of endgame content.

 

There are several different types of players... grinders and relaxed players are two of them.

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Oh endgame concept how I hate thee

Why is it so difficult for MMOGs to have a linear progression?

 

I dream for day a MMO don't forces you to level for weeks so than you can compete with other players, and then months later make your efforts become useless

 

So you want a skill based game? Then you don't want a RPG.

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Which means there is little point in subscribing unless you have the 'expansion', BW are certainly trying to alienate there subscriber base at every turn.

 

You have every reason to subscribe (and more) now than we all had when the game started. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

Because Makeb exists does not eliminate and nullify all of the 1-50 content that we all enjoyed.

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While I agree people should play for fun, some find the gear grind fun. I don't know why, but they do.

 

And before you argue with me, go check out the various Guild Wars 2 forums. One of their primary complaints there is a LACK of endgame content.

 

There are several different types of players... grinders and relaxed players are two of them.

Oh I do agree with you, but my point is that the game needs to actually focus on one OR the other, you cannot really have both without a massive budget and playerbase.

 

WoW manages both because of this, SWtoR probably aimed for both initially but since it has failed miserably it needs to look at the people it has and how best to keep them. The best it can probably do in the eyes of the majority of fans is to stick with the story, make it easier and more fun for for alts, more levelling paths. Just let people play the game and enjoy doing that, no need to add some goal that gets further and further away, because that seems to be something that only a small portion of the players want, and seems to be alienating more than it is likely to appease (Especially when the very people who want endgame content tend to be those who burn through it first, and are by very nature hard to appease if not impossible). Those who play the stories will roll endless alts if you give them the tools.

 

I will always come back to City of Heroes when comparng MMO's because despite major flaws it did a lot of things right, and the gameplay was so much fun that you could take your max level character and run it though any content you wanted (Scaled down appropriately) in a team of whatever size you want with your friends and it was fun every time (Or you could create a brand new character and be scaled up to join your friends on anything you wanted). I was in the largest guild in Europe and we ran stuff every night and never got bored because just playing the game was fun. Other MMO's don't seem to grasp that it is possible to make people enjoy playing the game and seem to think that changing the destination is the only way to keep people happy.

 

I know I would love to play my level 50 sorc through the IA's story arc, with my abilities and stats adjusted to the right level. I would love to join a low level Black Talon with my friends without 1 shotting everything, I would love to create another character and level up through different quests - especially since this is meant to be an alt friendly game. But no, they decide that they will raise the cap instead, and put the endgame further out of reach which means that the casual players who might like the endgame never really get to find out because just as they arrive the target moves. I left WoW because I hated doing content that was always 1 tier behind and SWtoR is going down that route.

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So you want a skill based game? Then you don't want a RPG.

RPG should be about a growing story, not an ever changing level cap. The most famous RPG of them all (Dungeons and Dragons) had a cap of level 10 for years, and level 20 is considered 'epic' which means you have the power to walk through the very plains of existance and basically create worlds. That worked because the story evolved and the character evolved in more ways that just chasing down the +5 sword, then aiming for the +6 version.

 

This game actually had that, the character stories are a great way to put some RPG back into MMORPG, but they decided against that.

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So you want a skill based game? Then you don't want a RPG.

No, just a game with linear progression, with or without levels

The problem is the endgame, you are forced to reach the level cap to "participate" in the game,.

Levels are meaningless, you are not getting stronger as you level, you are just wasting time to get to the cap, that is what is wrong

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