Hi,

I would like it express my concern about taking 8m SM Op's out of groupfinder, plenty of people prefer doing 8m SM Ops. You learn the tactics better in 8m as almost everyone has a role to play where as 16m people can get away with slacking a lot easier, Lag for those with lessor computers is always better in 8m.

 

Yet now you have changed the groupfinder ops to 16m & taken 8m completely out of groupfinder people will not want to do 8m anymore as the rewards as so much less, 70 ultimate comms for a 16m S&V run V's 12 ultimate comms for a 8m run.

 

I have talked to a few people in my guild about stepping up from our usual 8m Op's to 16m ops & have been told by 2 people if we do that there computers wont be up to the task & they will be forced to quit the game. So we either carry on with 8m for a pitiful reward or lose & quarter of our raid force..

 

I am sure if the 8m & 16m rewards were the same you would get ALOT more people doing 8m as there easier to put together when servers are quiet, so please Bioware don't screw the people over that love 8m ops & put them back into Groupfinder.

The point is to get a decent reward you have to do 16m , 72 ultimate comm's for a 16m S&V, 66 ultimate comm's for TFB V's 12 ultimate comm's for each of the 8m versions of these ops. Its a joke, yes I agree 8m is more for guild runs but why should it take a guild 5 times longer to get the ultimate comm's than someone who pugs the same ops.

 

Before the change a 16m S&V was 40 ultimate comm's & an 8m was 32 Ultimate comm's.

 

Slightly more for 16 man which I always felt was a little unfair but hey not a massive difference so didn't mind too much, but now the ration is 72 to 12 it is totally unfair, even more so when you can get 10 ultimate comm's for a daily HM FP, so a Weekly Op is only worth 2 more ultimate comm's than a daily HM FP how is that fair & balanced?

 

Not to Mention after just 2 Weekly 16 man Op's you will be just about at the Weekly Cap for ultimate Comm's

Edited June 12, 2014 by Ssuspriina

Nothing is stopping you from gather up an 8man group on your on outside Group Finder, as you say yourself the 8man is much easier to assemble if you don't have anything against to suffer a few more wipes due to the dependency of fewer people in 8man. There is no one forcing you to only run 16man raids, 8man mode isn't removed and is still possible to pick if you and your group wishes to do so =)

I don't think that's the OP's point. The point he/she's making is that the REWARDS for 16m rendered 8m story mode obsolete, which is true.

For me 8man SMs make sense only as guild runs so I dont see why they should be in groupfinder. Edited June 12, 2014 by jade_de_aguilera

The point is to get a decent reward you have to do 16m , 72 ultimate comm's for a 16m S&V, 66 ultimate comm's for TFB V's 12 ultimate comm's for each of the 8m versions of these ops. Its a joke, yes I agree 8m is more for guild runs but why should it take a guild 5 times longer to get the ultimate comm's than someone who pugs the same ops. Edited June 12, 2014 by Ssuspriina

I see no reason againt both versions being available through the GF.

For me 8man SMs make sense only as guild runs so I dont see why they should be in groupfinder.

 

Exactly, 8 man is a nice guildrun while 16 man is more suited for pug runs.

 

Pug 8 man....haha well....it can end up very bad

I don't see quite the crisis with 8-man SM operations and their lower Ultimate Commendation rewards that others seem to perceive.

 

Apart from certain belts and bracers that have a min/maxed modification in them, and that one pair of Marauder pants with the min/maxed power/alacrity enhancement in them, all other 180 gear that can be bought with Ultimate Commendations is trash. It is no-set bonus, high endurance, low secondary stat garbage. I cannot understand why players seem to be obsessed with purchasing the worst gear in the game for themselves.

 

A player in proper set-bonus min/maxed 162 gear from SM TFB and S&V is in a better position to tackle HM TFB and S&V than some GF Warrior who is in head-to-toe Ultimate Commendation gear that they have been spending weeks grinding the Ultimate Commendations to buy.

 

So any stable guild group that is running 8-man SM operations where people get to roll on the pieces of unassembled 162 Arkanian gear (and 168 Underworld from DF and DP) that will help them the most is in a much better position gear-wise than a player who is using Ultimate Commendations to gear themselves up.

Well Levram wouldn't you have even better gear if you used Your arcanian boots for set bonus but placed in mods & enhancements from the 180 set, for instance shadow tank head piece sucks on arcanian ( Alacrity for tank ) but you keep the set bonus from armouring & put in the mods & enhancement from 180 shadow tank gloces & gain a lot more shield / absorb. That's what I use my Ultimate's for.

 

But your also missing the point, my guild prefers to do 8m Ops & our reward for doing those ops has been halfed where as the reward for doing a 16m ops has almost doubled. So why are people been punished for preferring 8m over 16m.

...

Um, no.

Set bonus non-withstanding, this isn't better than this.

 

Comms let you buy any piece you want, so even if most pieces have trash stats, but one has decent ones, you can just buy the same 1 or 2 pieces over and over until you have good enough stats. And Oriconian being 2 tiers higher than underworld means that even the endurance-heavy enhancements have slightly more useful stats than the optimized ones. Besides, it's not like getting comms in 16-man runs stops you from getting arkanian or underworld gear too.

There is really no incentive at all to run 8-man SM, no matter how you look at it.

 

 

The way I see it, if the 4 comms per boss were transferred from the 16-man to the 8-man mode, things would be more fair, assuming full completion and use of the group finder for 16-man, tha twould give :

TFB 8m : 32 comms

TFB 16m : 42 comms

S&V 8m : 40 comms

S&V 16m : 42 comms

DF/DP 8m : 36 comms

DF/DP 16m : 46 comms

Edited June 12, 2014 by Loc_n_lol

This thread is now somewhat obsolete.

 

Hey everyone,

 

We have identified a fix to the ongoing area transition/instancing and connectivity issues that players have been seeing since the release of Game Update 2.8. In order to alleviate these issues, we are going to be doing unscheduled maintenance tomorrow morning (Friday, June 13). During this maintenance, we are going to take the Group Finder Operation queue from 16-Player to 8-Player, as we have found that due to tech issues the servers do not perform well under the load caused by the 16-Player queue. Going forward, we are going to evaluate our options in regards to the Group Finder system to see what the best course of action to take is.

 

Thank you all for your continued patience while we get this resolved!

 

-Tait

 

GG BW. You couldn't handle a 16 player queue.

Yeh I am happy again,

 

/rant off

A player in proper set-bonus min/maxed 162 gear from SM TFB and S&V is in a better position to tackle HM TFB and S&V than some GF Warrior who is in head-to-toe Ultimate Commendation gear that they have been spending weeks grinding the Ultimate Commendations to buy.

.

 

I find it pretty hard to believe any full 162 gear is going to be better than 180 gear but by all means prove point somehow? Personally I take the set bonus from any underworld armor I get, slap it on to my current gear and then deck everything else out with mods/enhancements/non set piece armor from the 180 ultimate comms as need be for my build.

Your point only stands to reason ( and even then I think you are highly over-exaggerating and plain wrong ) for people who don't know how ( or won't for some reason ) strip gear for mods/armor/enhancements as need be and wear the gear as it's bought but I wouldn't think too many people would do that.

I would imagine if I followed your reasoning and only went with 162 Ark gear vs 180 oriconian gear without swapping anything out at all my dps off the 180 would be much superior solely from the massive boost I get in willpower alone ( given by ever mod on each piece of gear ) even without any set bonuses in my classes case.

 

But hey I could be wrong, as I said by all means please offer up some examples to illustrate your point of 162 > 180.

So this server issue has nothing to do with the 6 instances of Nar Shadaa with people wasting their money that they wanna get out of the economy before the guild ships hit eh?

 

They just don't want to give away 70 coms fr a 16 man SV run.

Just a heretical thought : Why group finder 8-man OP's anyway ? They are much harder to withstand ( did Explosive Conflict a gfew days ago with 2 or 3 persons that never did it before - on HM ! ) and are much, much, much more likely to frustrate Newbies - or them getting kicked out because they are underperforming (or at least someone will believe so) ...

 

Hi,

I would like it express my concern about taking 8m SM Op's out of groupfinder, plenty of people prefer doing 8m SM Ops. You learn the tactics better in 8m as almost everyone has a role to play where as 16m people can get away with slacking a lot easier, Lag for those with lessor computers is always better in 8m.

 

I hold the completely opposite view : Mechanics and tactics are much better to learn in 16-man, BECAUSE these OPs are MUCH MUCH more foregiving ...

 

I expect you to argue exclusively from the view of an very, very EXPERIENCED raider. I expect you to NOT argue from the perspective of an Newbie to OPs.

 

From your opinion I get the impression as if experioenced raiders fear for their pops, rewards, and their preferred OPs anyway.

 

16-man OPs will die out, thanks to you. BUT : You don't play them anyway, so you don't care - this is implied to me by the fact that you condemn 16-man OPs and speak out to save your 8-man OPs.

 

Wipe, frustration & kicking out of Newbies ("vote-kick") are MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely in 8-man , BECAUSE there are so much harder than 16-man !

 

You say "you learn the tactics better in 8-man", but you seem to have never thought of those who HAVE to learn them. Your whole posting sounds to me like that of an "armchair Newbie".

 

You learn the tactics better in 8m as almost everyone has a role to play where as 16m people can get away with slacking a lot easier,

 

You sound to me as if "slacking" was a terrible curse. Something that had to be erased completely, cynically speaking.

 

And as if punishment was a really good thing - because inexperienced Newbies DO GET much, much more punished in 8-man !

 

I have talked to a few people in my guild about stepping up from our usual 8m Op's to 16m ops & have been told by 2 people if we do that there computers wont be up to the task & they will be forced to quit the game. So we either carry on with 8m for a pitiful reward or lose & quarter of our raid force..

 

Proof . You are NOT AT ALL speaking for OPs-Newbies ! Not at all. All you want to do is have your "usual Ops" running. You don't care about anything else but your guild.

 

And to me, that's proof as well that most guild people (and most posters here in general) are Newbie- & PUG-unfriendly.

 

For me 8man SMs make sense only as guild runs so I dont see why they should be in groupfinder.

 

I believe the same.

 

Or both. As an option.

Edited June 13, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

Greetings all-

 

 

So, the 16 man group finder is gone. I actually had high hopes for it. I think people that are mad, in my opinion, are looking at this in the wrong way. Yes, 16 man operation runs are more forgiving. It is easier to carry an inexperienced person or persons, easier to cheese mechanics, or heal and dps through mess ups. In a 16 man raid, people can goof off and afk, not take things seriously, since it seems to be a prevailing attitude that: hey its a 16 man story mode, who cares, its easy. Again this is just my opinion of the way I have been seeing things, and I know some of you may have also seen this attitude spreading.

 

In these days of the "kdy cadre" , where people can go from level 15-55 in a matter of days if willing, and 9 hours on a double xp weekend (two of my friends leveled alts in this amount of time on a new server during a double xp weekend not long ago), we have to be careful. KDY academy is producing sup par end level gamers, who have no idea of their class, trinity mechanics or it seems much of anything. This can be seen in our own experience and in the funny but sad thread "The weird people you meet in group finder" Now, not everyone is like this, don't get me wrong, and I'm not writing this to derail the thread or rage against KDY, let me explain how I think how this ties in.

 

As I stated above, 16 man raids can be a lot easier to carry people along with many other perks including rewards. But does this help, really help the noobs that this option was instituted for? Yes, I realize a lot of people just want to get their comms and go home in the fastest way possible, and they don't care about the new player or players except in the context of what a hindrance they will be on THEM. It's also been like this in 16 man pug groups I have been apart of and heard about. But for those of us that care about fostering the next generation of raiders, I think this new 8 man change will be a great tool. Now this may be the exception, but I know there are good people out there who don't mind helping and teaching as long as its being received! As long as the people want to be taught, and that is a problem, the people who think they know it all and will not listen to advice or be helped. I do think though that there are people out there that want to break into raiding, and have potential. They have just not been able to find a guild with room on a team or whatever the reason. I myself was someone like this, and was lucky and met a group of raiders who were awesome and willing to teach me to tank operations! (thanx for your patience shredder)

 

Thanks to that experience I am dedicated to helping new people who want to learn and like to support the raiding community. The reasons the 8 man group finder raid will help a lot in this was are numerous but here are a few: In an 8 man raid, it is a smaller more personal setting, your deficiencies will be obvious. The areas that you need to work on will be obvious. It will be easier to learn your job in the mechanics, with less people you can be directed and worked with more. In a group finder raid we will do on our story mode fun night, if we get a pug or two I will invite them into our teamspeak. If they don't have it, we will tell them where to find it, explain its benefits. I know not everyone has a mic, so this does not apply to all. In an 8 man, if you are new, and you get in with some experienced people, chances are you will have a better shot at the gear drops. At least with my friends and I, we check gear at the start of every run, and have no problem giving gear to the people who need it. I also believe that in a 8 man raid the chance to teach people the right etiquette, and good raid habits will be much easier in a smaller setting where people can have a better chance to see what the person is doing wrong and correct it.

 

Now, a lot of what I have said as what I think the benefits are or could be depend very much on the group composition you get. There will always be people that don't care about the community, or helping the next man, the folks that just want their comms and their rolls, and that fine. If thats their playstyle then it is what it is, I can't fault them for their outlook. And of course there will be the people who do not want help or advice, the noob who is rude or who won't say they are new and will not accept any kind of help. That just is what it is and it will ruin the experience of everyone. Yes the rewards may not be as high as in a 16 man raid. I think though, that in the end, if we have some patience, we can find the people who truly want to learn, the future progression raiders who just need a nudge and some help, some of these people will be the future of our community guys, lets try to train em right. In my opinion, with what i stated above, I believe 8 man settings will be easier to do this.

 

I apologize for my wall of text, I am sitting in the car with the baby asleep while my wife is in an appointment, and I got a little bored. I will come back when I get home and correct the punctuation and any spelling. Thanks for your time. Any thoughts, comments or concerns are appreciated.

 

TL;DR: 16 man GF is gone, I think it will be easier to teach noobs in 8 man.

I find it pretty hard to believe any full 162 gear is going to be better than 180 gear but by all means prove point somehow? Personally I take the set bonus from any underworld armor I get, slap it on to my current gear and then deck everything else out with mods/enhancements/non set piece armor from the 180 ultimate comms as need be for my build.

Your point only stands to reason ( and even then I think you are highly over-exaggerating and plain wrong ) for people who don't know how ( or won't for some reason ) strip gear for mods/armor/enhancements as need be and wear the gear as it's bought but I wouldn't think too many people would do that.

I would imagine if I followed your reasoning and only went with 162 Ark gear vs 180 oriconian gear without swapping anything out at all my dps off the 180 would be much superior solely from the massive boost I get in willpower alone ( given by ever mod on each piece of gear ) even without any set bonuses in my classes case.

 

But hey I could be wrong, as I said by all means please offer up some examples to illustrate your point of 162 > 180.

 

 

Personally I feel the enhancements are also noticeably worse in 180 comms gear with the exception of the quick savant enhancement in Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior pants. In particular the 8 power is worth more than extra accuracy/surge in large part due to the diminishing returns on those stats. Tanking, it's even worse (high endurance tanks are a huge warning sign to me personally), though given how important the set bonuses are to higher content, it might not matter much.

 

Mods are generally pretty good from the comms gear, and of course the off hand is huge, so usually I buy the off hand, then a belt, a pair of bracers, and then more belts/bracers to shore up the mods.

 

On topic:

 

At this point the argument of whether or not GF ops should be 8 or 16 is, to me, much less important than the fact that apparently BW can't figure out how to make them 16 man due to technical difficulties. That's an entirely new level of fail.

It's not just about which is easier or not, as you can see in OP, it's also that 16-man is a chaotic lagfest slideshow on all the weaker computers, while 8-man on the same machines runs very well, for some reason.

 

Regardless of anyone's reasons for prefering one mode or another, the difference in rewards is just stupid. Neither of the modes should get shafted when it comes to commendations, or crafting materials, and 8-man story mode has been given the shaft for far too long.

 

Let the players play the mode they want, instead of forcing things and then claiming "it has become the more popular mode", well, yes, it has, since you forced us to give up on the other one...

Edited June 14, 2014 by Loc_n_lol

Just a heretical thought : Why group finder 8-man OP's anyway ? They are much harder to withstand ( did Explosive Conflict a gfew days ago with 2 or 3 persons that never did it before - on HM ! ) and are much, much, much more likely to frustrate Newbies - or them getting kicked out because they are underperforming (or at least someone will believe so) ...

 

 

 

I hold the completely opposite view : Mechanics and tactics are much better to learn in 16-man, BECAUSE these OPs are MUCH MUCH more foregiving ...

 

I expect you to argue exclusively from the view of an very, very EXPERIENCED raider. I expect you to NOT argue from the perspective of an Newbie to OPs.

 

From your opinion I get the impression as if experioenced raiders fear for their pops, rewards, and their preferred OPs anyway.

 

16-man OPs will die out, thanks to you. BUT : You don't play them anyway, so you don't care - this is implied to me by the fact that you condemn 16-man OPs and speak out to save your 8-man OPs.

 

Wipe, frustration & kicking out of Newbies ("vote-kick") are MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely in 8-man , BECAUSE there are so much harder than 16-man !

 

You say "you learn the tactics better in 8-man", but you seem to have never thought of those who HAVE to learn them. Your whole posting sounds to me like that of an "armchair Newbie".

 

 

 

You sound to me as if "slacking" was a terrible curse. Something that had to be erased completely, cynically speaking.

 

And as if punishment was a really good thing - because inexperienced Newbies DO GET much, much more punished in 8-man !

 

 

 

Proof . You are NOT AT ALL speaking for OPs-Newbies ! Not at all. All you want to do is have your "usual Ops" running. You don't care about anything else but your guild.

 

And to me, that's proof as well that most guild people (and most posters here in general) are Newbie- & PUG-unfriendly.

 

 

 

I believe the same.

 

Or both. As an option.

 

**** Alrik ... every time you are playing the Newbie Card ... do u want to be the retriever of the newbs or what is it ....

 

Some words on ur post:

 

1. You dont lern tactics better in 16 man. Because like u said mistake are no big probelm here. How can u learn something if mistakes dont have consequences. I know about these teaching methods in school and they are fkin ridiculous.

 

2. Most Experienced Raiders go StoryMode just for fun. I want to raid with some guys. And for me its easier to get to know the other guys in 8 man - thats why I prefer these. Not those faceless 16 mans. But even for the fun u want some rewards and thats why I hate the big reward advantages of the 16 mans. With the unplanned problems and latest patch they are even and I like it.

 

3. I know on which Server u r playing - i play on the same Server. I am on of ur "experienced raiders". But I also pug 8 man and 16 man Story Modes just for fun or to help other guys because I really like raiding. For the 2,5 years I play this game and pug OPs there was NEVER someone kicked out from the operation group for making a mistake or not knowing tactics - NEVER. We explain the boss fight, maybe fail and make a new try. Sometimes a boss kill is not possible with the group. But there was never a kick. So dont tell these stupid stories.

 

If you are having real issues with learning tactics and boss fights u can send me a message. We meet on the fleet, pug a group and do an 8 man operation together. I explain every detail of the boss fight if needed and have no problem with mistakes that causes a wipe.

 

But please stop telling experienced raiders bully newbies - because thats not true!

Edited June 14, 2014 by Hawkeyezzzzz