An assassin that hurls himself into the bunch of enemies is a noob. It's a finesse class AND excels at tearing down enemy backlines, expecially squishies.

Sigh... you have a perception issue

Hurling in a bunch of enemies is not the way to play sin.

I have not said that it is the way sin are played. I said you can get into the fray and get away. Not an option for a Scoundrell (most of the times)

With OP you get adds and disengage (if you can) and heal up, with sin you get adds and can buy some seconds to finish your job and then you can't heal up.

lol.. You cant really HealUp with a DPS scoundrel. If you start heal yourself in a Battle you will deplete your resource VERY fast. And all you can do then is spamming auto-attack.

and still Shadow BattleReadines selfHeal is better free instant HealUP than any skill scoundrell have.

Gotta wait for combat to end (some times it takes 15 seconds even sitting behind a wall) AND combat force-steatlh often times does not get you out of combat either so you still have to wait behind a wall somewhere, doing nothing.

lol.. And why do you think the «force stealth» for scoundrels work any other way?

It have the same issues. You need to blow the Evasion ( Force Shroud) to be sure you wont have any DoTs that will got you out of Stealth..

Funny how I did say that all this would happen but the old fanboy network shut all that down and now look. Bioware just love this class and there is nothing we can do about it but roll one.

Yeah.. some weird kind of love.. To let the Concelment opers lay in dirt for a 2 years.

But know the class Bioware are most despise of... Sentinels/Maradeurs.

In a perfect world where there is peace and everyone would play together as the roles are meant in an mmo, in games where everything would be perfectly balanced, where everybody has equal skill nobody would even play concealment.

clarification: playing together means only 8 man pre-mades.

I am looking forward to the first youtube vids of arena teams that consist out of operatives only and how they would supposedly smash every other possible team

In a perfect world where there is peace and everyone would play together as the roles are meant in an mmo, in games where everything would be perfectly balanced, where everybody has equal skill nobody would even play concealment.

 

clarification: playing together means only 8 man pre-mades.

 

I am looking forward to the first youtube vids of arena teams that consist out of operatives only and how they would supposedly smash every other possible team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zklx3BQIV4w

Not quite what you want but funny nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zklx3BQIV4w

 

Not quite what you want but funny nonetheless.

Just DoT2Full

Yeah if this was more popular, maybe we would see the same QQ about lethality now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zklx3BQIV4w

 

Not quite what you want but funny nonetheless.

I can't watch that video because "it contains music from SME". It's blocked for Germany.

Within a week the kolto clouds of doom will return!!!

Epic.

Only played about 8 warzones last night on my sin and I never once went "Oh _hit" when a op/scoun opened up on me and I was running full madness.

I did notice an increase in players who cant deal damage so go figure.

Only played about 8 warzones last night on my sin and I never once went "Oh _hit" when a op/scoun opened up on me and I was running full madness.

 

I did notice an increase in players who cant deal damage so go figure.

Probably down to changing mods and augments - I am sure some will post a link and videos to an OP build soon.

4 sec of rotation.

3 hits.

Your sorc if «fully augmented» = >30K HP.

 

3 hits that making 30K Damage?

 

cool story bro.

Expecially when you are the one making the story.

I and others are all referring to these 2 rotations posted in this thread.

That rotation is not 3 hits. Learn to post in the context of a thread and its previous posts instead of playing flamboyant douche.

omg.. rly? you are playing your Shadow this way? i dont even know what to say.. It is so beyound any L2P issues..

I NEVER found myself out of Force on my Shadow. Do you familiar with all your abilities?

You are doing something very wrong if your rotation on Shadow is so weak.

Despite your... creative opinions, pressing 1 button to activate an opener, takes an unquestionable amount of resources, that is 40 out of 110, that is a big chunk just for the first ability used in a rotation. The rest further drain from it. Also, if resources were so abundant, we'd not have a talent to increase force pool from 100 to 110

Try looking at your energy management instead of mine: I use mine to full (without depleting it). I convert as much force into DPS as possible.

If you find yourself with tons of force all the time then it's you who are not using your force at full and thus do less sustained DPS than you should.

Also, despite your... creative build, you apparently trained clarvoyant strike, that is the 31th point you state to have trained. Apparently you call me about L2P because (keeping the rotations linked above) I don't pretend to call "rotation" something with 1 minute cooldowns and you seem to find it funny how I use my 31th talent.

If it's so nooby then why did you train it yourself? To have 1 pretty button sitting unused?

The only explanation i could imagine is that you jumped in the «omg! Shadows are the FoTm bandwagon» and didnt tried to figure how to play a Shadow.

I run 0/31/15 build.. it is not even the most optimal for a damage and i still can detroy enemies in one sequence.

I rolled a shadow when they were at their all time lowest in the same way I have rolled a sorc when they are at their worst time.

I consider to have failed a WZ if I die more than twice or if I don't get at least 14 medals.

I get top spot fairly frequently and have a fixed spot in a WZ and arena premade.

If you think they keep me there because of "beyond L2P" then be my guest.

good luck to try to heal youself for a 300HP per use.

Good luck as sorc, having to spec 1 point into a 3rd tiear healing talent just to get the same you seem to find so bad. Ah, and not available all the time, only when barrier is up!

but sorcs have a free instant heal and the other two baseline heals don't cost you 1/4 of your ressources or a buff that is hard to get, when you want to avoid fighting and heal up for a second. People might not believe it since medicine is so powerful in pvp, but operatives are actually the worst off-healers in game, at least when they are not playing some idiotic hybrid.

If ops are so bad off healers, one would *almost* wonder why they are THE ONE competitive healer, wanted everywhere AND with the highest score on the leaderboards AND the most copious numbers of their class in said leaderboards.

Said that, if I am not heal spec, it takes a very good portion of my resource to "H2FULL" and also 4-5 casts for a total of 15 seconds of being a sitting duck.

Deception/infiltation is still better by a margin at the very niche it and concealment fall it.

As it should. Because shadows / sins are THE trademark "rogue" class in SWTOR, if you make an healer able to outclass "rogues" at being the best "rogues" then what point is there at playing one?

I have played smash on my sentinel (and i feel bad because of that) and you cant even compare it.

That's why you spec carnage like I do on my mara so you don't feel as bad as you'd do if you specced smash

After playing all night, I've got to say operative damage is a TAD over the top with their stuns and combat stealth.

1. If I have a stun breaker and heal available? I win. They don't stand a chance against an assault VG. You have to react fast, because the damage they deliver is FAST. Too fast. It requires both VG stuns to win.

2. No stun break? Heal or kolto on CD? Stuns on CD? Dead. Every single time. No chance.

It seems to me that they should have this garbage damage nerfed, and get some defensive cooldown improvement to make both (1) and (2) a fair fight.

I have not said that it is the way sin are played. I said you can get into the fray and get away. Not an option for a Scoundrell (most of the times)

If you get into the fray you get permastunned and die even with all the CDs (and will look at the resolve bar, still nicely half empty and useless as usual). (Deception) Sin has the tools to get out in case they find themselves in the middle of 3-4 people not to purposedly walk into the fray like a tank.

lol.. You cant really HealUp with a DPS scoundrel. If you start heal yourself in a Battle you will deplete your resource VERY fast. And all you can do then is spamming auto-attack.

... like I can't really HealUp with a DPS sorc. Seems fairly balanced then. Well, I could pretend nobody notices me for the 15 seconds it takes and pretend my now 20% remaining force is useful for anything.

lol.. And why do you think the «force stealth» for scoundrels work any other way?

It have the same issues. You need to blow the Evasion ( Force Shroud) to be sure you wont have any DoTs that will got you out of Stealth..

It's not (just) DoTs. Even with no DoTs combat tends to stick sometimes for up to 15 secs.

Hi I'm Troy McClure, you might remember me from such threads as "Too many knights/warriors" and "Meanwhile, everybody is guarded" and let's not forget such classics as "Once you hit lvl 55 PvP fun's over" And "Operative healers meanwhile game breaking"

 

I'm here today to talk to you about a whole new series of posts featuring operative dps and how they have been the bane of PvP for the last 6 hours and will continue to be so along with their healing specs, tanks, warriors and other general PvP QQ.

 

 

You read that in his voice.

+ 100 internets

11/10 for instantly having to read in that voice.

If ops are so bad off healers, one would *almost* wonder why they are THE ONE competitive healer, wanted everywhere AND with the highest score on the leaderboards AND the most copious numbers of their class in said leaderboards.

 

Said that, if I am not heal spec, it takes a very good portion of my resource to "H2FULL" and also 4-5 casts for a total of 15 seconds of being a sitting duck.

 

 

 

 

As it should. Because shadows / sins are THE trademark "rogue" class in SWTOR, if you make an healer able to outclass "rogues" at being the best "rogues" then what point is there at playing one?

 

 

 

 

That's why you spec carnage like I do on my mara so you don't feel as bad as you'd do if you specced smash

What makes operatives the only really viable arena healer, are the top abilities in the tree. Before level 30 something it is not even funny to operative heals because have to cast everything and costs a ton of resources. Those abilities are high enough in the tree, so that a proper lethality or concealment build can not get them... or the build is close to unplayable due to energy management.

Energy works non linear for scoundrels and operatives, as long as you can stay about 50% it is all fine and deny. In the healing tree you have a lot of abilities that make for kolto probe spammable, because it only cost 9 energy (out of 100), you basically get it back before the GCD finishes. The main casted heal (in medicine only a 2s cast, for concealment in most builds it is a 2.5 s cast) though costs 25 of energy. If you really want to burst a target down, you are at the 50% mark ridiculously quickly in concealment. if you need to cast that heal (which is only one of 3 you actually have available, the other needs tactical advantage, which most likely just at that moment you dont have, unlike healer can only generate with shiv, stim boost or hidden strike, and the 3rd is just too weak to do anything), costs 25/100 energy and heals around 4k to 7k (with a crit). But now you are basically screw with only 25 energy maybe you can shiv once and or doomed to rifle shot (the rather poor auto attack).

Just to make it clear out side the healing tree resource management is actually tricky on operatives, so most of the time you simply dont have energy to waste on the rather poor heals you have available. Which leads to the irony, that the class has arguable the best pvp healing tree atm (mostly out wz and arena mechanics in my mind), but is the worst off healer.

the h2f idea doesnt work that great with sorcs (since off heals dont make up for the lack of DCDs), but with a melee class with really tight energy management, granting survivability by self heals, was never gonna work.

They gave us the roll to improve our kiting... fair enough, but it drains your energy as well, so again it is getting tough to heal up, while still being in combat. And most of the time you get slowed or stunned anyway, making it a pure waste of energy (or lead to the roll bug, and you have to quit the wz).

.....

since you acknowledge that sin/shadows are still, better at doing the stealth dps job in pvp, we can stop the QQ on the pvp forum immediately. (In the PVE section i would find it absolutely legitimate, since basically all sin/shadow trees need serious pve buffs). I dont think they are op either.

The thing that yesterday and maybe today happens, that just some many people wanted to see the changes, leading to way more concealment operatives in wzs than usual. The thing is this class and in particular this spec, lets focus fire happen more natural than others. A few weeks ago, just got my scoundrel to 55 (and i planned on playing her heals only), me and some friend basically had the idea to just to some random wz ganking, so 5 scrappers 3 infiltration shadows, i dont think it was really fun for those against us:P If 3-4 madness sorcs just dot you into oblivion there is almost nothing you can do, same with lethality snipers (especially if you are on a mara/sent). As i said i intentially didnt log my sentinel, since i knew this was gonna happen. It will all be back to normal in a few days, when people realize that this wasn't really a buff that helps in pvp that much.

99.9 of the time i play combat... just some stuns, roots and knockbacks too much and i rage respec smash (that is why the tree is called that why for maras, right?)

since you acknowledge that sin/shadows are still, better at doing the stealth dps job in pvp, we can stop the QQ on the pvp forum immediately.

Do you know why about all the QQ you'll see not just today but also in the months to come (so no, it won't stop)?

Because in the same patch they vomited in the sorcs face just another ridicolous placebo "buff", BW added another "predator" in the already crowded mass who 3-4 GCD feed on clothies.

So, on my main (shadow) I don't feel affected at all and only 1 ops so far managed to kill me out of tons of attempts.

On my mara for some reason I don't feel affected a lot as well, maybe because as carnage I have so much DPS available that the ops just melt, stuns or not.

On my sorc instead they are a nightmare. The class already lying down just got some additional monster kicks in the guts.