Just because sitting in front of a dummy they can do more doesnt mean they bring more. Assasins bring alot of utility. The assasin in the group I run is phenominal as a player and has single handedly turned a wipe into a win.

During the tank fight in ec - the tank on stormcaller went down and he ran over there, taunted and held the boss long enough to get that tank up and in his position. Everyone adjusted accordingly and we downed them.

Honestly as a raid leader I want players that know how to utilize every ounce of the utility available. Not just someone who can move out of circles and put up large numbers.

Read this interview with a swtor dev on why the "low" parsing is invalid for most classes, especially assassins. "Assassin DPS has THE MOST to gain when switching from a simulated fight to a real fight."

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html

And assassins bring all kinds of utility. Like being the only dps (because there is no such thing as operative dps) that can revive people when combat ress is on cooldown.

Yeah but this is a gimmick that works probably... 1/3 of the time? if that. Same with stealth rezzing the group after a wipe. Can it be called utility if it cannot be relied on?

One delusion follows another.

DPS parses on a dummy is nothing compared to a good, clever, geared DPS of any class, operatives and assassins included.

I'm telling that being an assassin myself (tried both trees) and having a friend playing fantastic operative DPS.

About 2.0:

1) Changes will be made from the last PTS build.

2) Future patches will bring further balancing.

Don't be a pessimist, don't play as others want you to play!

To OP. Try rolling new class if you want to stay in current guild or just find an adequate new guild.

Now time to be brutally honest:

 

If you are in a "very hardcore" raiding guild and you were out dps'ing marauders and powertechs as an assassin, then that guild is not that hardcore in the first place. I would tell them, that they should be looking at the skill of the marauder and powertechs before you, because a top-notch marauder or powertech should be out dps'ing you by a pretty large margin.

This!!!!!

if shadow outdpsed my vanguard i would have deleted him asap ... if player behind PT/mara has minor knowledge about the class there is NO WAY that he can be outdpsed by shadow/assasin

This!!!!!

 

if shadow outdpsed my vanguard i would have deleted him asap ... if player behind PT/mara has minor knowledge about the class there is NO WAY that he can be outdpsed by shadow/assasin

wouldn't give so strong words, as one day it may happen

To OP. Try rolling new class if you want to stay in current guild or just find an adequate new guild.

Wouldn't even bother with rerolling tbh. If the maraderps and PTs can't out dps him now they won't post 2.0. You don't need to prove anything to maintain your spot. If they want you out of the raid group just leave the guild.

Anyways, I said my part on the 2.0 dps parses. Those parses should be taken as nothing more as a leader board on dummy and as comparison as internal class dps variances. If you start comparing between classes you're gonna have a bad time. They can't be compared between each other due to differences in buffs/debuffs and most of the parses cannot be used for ANY raid scenario or who you should and should not bring. In short, they're worthless for raiding numbers and mean nothing due to flawed testing and poor community support.

Also, It is more fun being an assassin anyways. It is like passively telling everyone that their bad every time you out dps them. "Hey you got a complete class advantage over me and still did worst in equal gear. I'm not saying you're bad or anything but numbers tend TO SPEAK PRETTY LOUDLY."

If people are gonna call us the underdog, I sure as hell am gonna make them look like disappointments in their own class.

Also, It is more fun being an assassin anyways. It is like passively telling everyone that their bad every time you out dps them

+1

I know I am gonna come off as a dick here but I know others are thinking it, but have you ever thought the members of your raid team don't like you? This 2.0 dps stuff sounds like bull to me and just an excuse to get rid of you. I mean if what your saying is true you are not in a hardcore raid group and that is fine but no way you should be out.dpsing marauders and powertechs if your in a hardcore raid group. If you are Grats to you but they are idiots. Your ops leader should be removing them not you. There is no reason for you to be out dpsing them non.

Also Assassins have lots of utility in a raid like in stealth rez, stealth cc, and a taunt. Good raid leader would realize thisand keep you, especially if your top dps on your team now. 2.0 may change things but if your a smart player its not gonna change that. And a smart player is way more important then anything else. I agree with everyone else FIND A NEW GUILD

wouldn't give so strong words, as one day it may happen

well.. dissucsion is before 2.0 )

Bioware didn't say "You can't go on raids any more, because your class isn't as good as it used to be". Sure, they're the ones who made the changes to his class, but it's his raid/guild leader who is choosing not to take him along.

 

OP: Like many other people are saying, find a new guild. You play the game to play the game, so you go where you CAN play the game, that is evidently not at your current guild at this time. Make a new character for ops, or bide your time to see if Assassin/Shadow gets fixed. I'm sure there are plenty of great guilds on your server that would take you along for ops, and at a pace where you still get what you want out of the game

It still boils down to being BW fault. If the class wasn't pummeled into the ground with the nerf-boot then there would be no reason not to take him/her on the raid.

It still boils down to being BW fault. If the class wasn't pummeled into the ground with the nerf-boot then there would be no reason not to take him/her on the raid.

here is a problem.

It wasn't

2.0 didn't hit the fan yet.

not all specs were tested, and a dummy isnt a raid boss.

I used to be one of the top dps in my guild. I was taken to almost every HM and NM operation as melee dps. As a madness Assassin I could always out dps marauders on a single target. Then the PTS came out. Assassins got completely screwed up by Bioware. Now my guild's raid leader (and myself) have no idea how madness DPS is going to fair at level 55. Therefore, I have officially lost my raid spot. In order to get my raid spot back again I have to wait and see if the class is even viable anymore at 55 and then prove myself all over again to my guild. All confidence in my class has been shot. I am trying to figure out if I even want to continue playing this game. Thanks Bioware. You really screwed me over this time.

if you out DPSed maras then you needed to replace your marauders... on live NOTHING can out DPS a properly geared and played mara... espcially not an assassin.

and here I thought that snipers were top dps... specially when maras had down times on run phases and lethality snipers dots were still doing harm.

There's a lot of past tense writing from the OP, for something which isn't even live yet.

Now my guild's raid leader (and myself) have no idea how madness DPS is going to fair at level 55. Therefore, I have officially lost my raid spot.

its not my guild leader's fault that Bioware screwed the class up.

Some comments:

1. If your raid leader has dropped you before changes even take effect (and not knowing how they'll pan out), find a new guild.

2. I'd rather have a skillful player using a sub-par class than an unskilled player using the Flavour Of The Month class. Class type doesn't down a boss, skill does.

3. I don't believe there's any PVE content in the game that cannot be completed with any class.

you loose a spot cause you getting a nerf.

 

nice guild m8, shows they support you alot

what he said,if they removed you from their group because of a nerf thay are a bunch of unsupportive *****,just leave the guild.

I'm gonna have to take a couple whacks at this dead horse.

I'm pretty much gonna have to agree with everyone else....time for a new guild.

You say "hardcore" guild. What do you mean?

From the little tid bits I've gathered from comments.....

Running Maras and PTs that put out sub optimal Dps

The willingness to drop a player solely on class choice

The willingness to drop a class based on sketchy info since 2.0 isn't even live yet.

It sounds to me like a group that probably chews A LOT of glass.... More so than is probably productive.

The kind of guild willing to grind EC NiM 5 hours a day, 7 days a week with no progress.... Is that hardcore?

Is it a group that can just crush any content? Because then it sounds like the guild is not hardcore but rather just a bit elitist. From what is described by the OP, it sounds more like the former.

Time for a new guild.

I dont have an Assassin but i have noticed in my server that there does not seem to be so many Sin DPS doing PvE. They just seem to stick to PvP where they are still doing great. Im actually curious as to why this may be or if others have seen this. In my first guild 90% of the members where Inquisitors so we always had 2 Sorc dps and 2 Sin dps for 8-man raids. Now in my latest guild we dont seem to have any or at least none that are mains or even DPS. While i have a leveling Shadow for PvP purposes only I am really curious about Sin dps in Raids/Ops and may level one up to see the difference.

All-in-all....anyone else see this issue or has an idea why?

The much better question is what server are you and whats your guild name so everyone knows that guild isn't worth our time in case we want to raid. Because any leader who makes decisions on information that isn't actualized yet isn't fit to be a raid leader. Its people like this that seriously erode a good experience in a raid environment. This is coming from a person who raided in pre bc and got to Naxxramas where I still believe attunement is the best raid environment tool ever made to really make "hardcore" you think your a part of a reality.

Especially as someone else stated grinding a instance is not hardcore. But your raid leader seems like a genius I heard from a unreliable source that in 2.1 Operatives are going to get a 300% modifier to backstab and corrosive dart will always double tick no matter the spec. So soon in your raid group it should be all operatives right because they have scamper defense screen and dodge so they have great defensive cds as a melee and proficient AOE's. Lastly why is this person your raid leader if they don't grasp skill over gear yet?

The much better question is what server are you and whats your guild name so everyone knows that guild isn't worth our time in case we want to raid.

This is an excellent question. Sounds like a guild that nobody should ever bother fading with.

I used to be one of the top dps in my guild. I was taken to almost every HM and NM operation as melee dps. As a madness Assassin I could always out dps marauders on a single target. Then the PTS came out. Assassins got completely screwed up by Bioware. Now my guild's raid leader (and myself) have no idea how madness DPS is going to fair at level 55. Therefore, I have officially lost my raid spot. In order to get my raid spot back again I have to wait and see if the class is even viable anymore at 55 and then prove myself all over again to my guild. All confidence in my class has been shot. I am trying to figure out if I even want to continue playing this game. Thanks Bioware. You really screwed me over this time.

All classes are viable.

Also the PTS is the PTS. Bugs can occur and the PTS should NEVER be considered representive of the final product.

Grump you are in Torva nex? So wed be on the same server have you noticed this on Jedi Covenant?

Kinda, I do see several on or server. We had a few in or guild. Some damn good ones too. Now we are down to one, the others switched spec due a tank shortage on a couple of our raid teams. And one just quit the game in total.

But I still with some every so often.