So, if a shadow or an assassin wants to tank, they NEED to "ninja" a shield from a guardian or a vanguard. That's just the particular instance that annoys me. There are other minor class breaking loot issues, if you bother to look for them.

 

Actually if you have the tank role in a group it ususally means that you can take the defence items that drop, if you ask the team in advance. Now, imagine that the new lootsystem is in place, I am sure that the group will be more then happy to pass on any defence items to you.

 

It is a bit harder though if you enter as dps and starts needing on tank items.

 

This is a valid argument though since tank items are not that common for the different classes (I have four tanks myself). But eventually you will end up with the defence items that drop if you run as tank, a group always seems to keep a good tank happy no matter what

Edited March 3, 2013 by Icestar

I think this whole shadow tank arguement is nonsense anyway. Shadow are from consular group so they don't use or need shield gens. They use foci and there are foci that have the shield stuff in them. Foci will never have str/end on them like shield gens, just will/end. I know I'm new to game but I've read the forums enough to know this. I play as a shadow tank and have never seen a shield gen that I had to ninja from a guardian or vanguard. I found your arguement based only in your own fantasies with no basis in real game mechanics.

I think this whole shadow tank arguement is nonsense anyway. Shadow are from consular group so they don't use or need shield gens. They use foci and there are foci that have the shield stuff in them.

 

This might clear some things up for you

 

Anyway, I have not needed to take a shield from another class either for my tank. I simply upgraded my shield along the way. I do understand the concern Stormskimmer is lifting though, it is good to discuss different constructive opinions regarding this. It gives more feedback for Bioware should they come to reason and implement a new lootsystem.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Icestar

I know I'm new to game but I've read the forums enough to know this.

Except that you're wrong about EVERYTHING you said.

 

Shadow are from consular group so they don't use or need shield gens.

Wrong!

 

Shadow tanks do use and absolutely need to use shield generators.

 

They use foci and there are foci that have the shield stuff in them.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A force focus will not function as a shield, no matter how many mods and enhancement with shield rating and absorption rating you put in them, you will still shield nothing, because you don't have a shield.

 

Only dps specced shadows use a focus.

 

Foci will never have str/end on them like shield gens, just will/end.

Wrong!

 

There are plenty of foci with strength found all over the game. Those are what dps specced guardians and juggernauts use.

I actually thought it would be in the 2.0 patchnotes. The community has requested a change in lootdistribution for a long time now.

 

We are still greeted with silence

 

There was a relatively recent change regarding the delayed "bind on pickup"...

Even if someone get an item that someone else has a better claim on he can pass it over.

Anyway I wish you luck on your future ignorelists, because you will be on alot of them if you take items your character can´t use. Only a heads up about that, hope you play a tank or healer

 

It's adorable how you think the guy who passes on everything he can't immediately equip and make use of is going to end up on ignore lists for his looting habits.

 

You're still just proposing adding more problems without fixing the ones you're complaining about.

 

You're also laboring under the misconception that there is something inherently wrong with someone acquiring an item their character cannot equip.

It's adorable how you think the guy who passes on everything he can't immediately equip and make use of is going to end up on ignore lists for his looting habits.

 

You're still just proposing adding more problems without fixing the ones you're complaining about.

 

You're also laboring under the misconception that there is something inherently wrong with someone acquiring an item their character cannot equip.

 

I simply reflect the reality, you will not be popular if you need items your character can not use.

 

You still speak of those "problems" without telling us what they are, I find you amusing

Edited March 4, 2013 by Icestar

There was a relatively recent change regarding the delayed "bind on pickup"...

Even if someone get an item that someone else has a better claim on he can pass it over.

 

Yes, it might help out when players unintentionally takes items they should not have, easy to correct and easy to forget.

 

A small step on the way, eventhough it does nothing when players decide to ninja items intentionally.

I simply reflect the reality, you will not be popular if you need items your character can not use.

 

You still speak of those "problems" without telling us what they are, I find you amusing

 

Your inability to read and comprehend the written word is still not my problem.

Your inability to read and comprehend the written word is still not my problem.

 

You really enjoy insulting me when all you need to do is to explain to me and the community what you mean.

 

My best guess is that you can not and simply use the word "problems" because you have no clue what to write.

 

Anyway lets not derail this thread any more and get back to discuss the topic in a constructive way.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Icestar

I provided plenty of constructive feedback. You just didn't bother to read it before dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion than you.

 

You're not looking to have a productive discussion, you're simply looking to gather up positive reinforcement of what you've already decided is the best course of action in the hopes that the devs will see that and latch onto it and subsequently carry out your will.

I provided plenty of constructive feedback. You just didn't bother to read it before dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion than you.

 

You're not looking to have a productive discussion, you're simply looking to gather up positive reinforcement of what you've already decided is the best course of action in the hopes that the devs will see that and latch onto it and subsequently carry out your will.

 

Nah, you have written about that ninjalooting is a community problem and that my suggestion will lead to a problem with players not being able to ninja items to their companions.

 

I have read your posts and want to discuss those "problems" you keep refering to, but you only say that you have explained them already. If my suggestion leads to so many "problems" according to you it is interesting to discuss them, as I have mentioned in many many posts.

 

If you actually think I can not read or discuss something constuctivly, I must remind you that you are wrong. I work with this all day long.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Icestar

at low level i remember everyone that can happen to use a item with a different stat from your main..due to the fact that for example aim and cunning can give you almost the same bonus if you are rolling a smuggler/agent...the ninja problem can be bigger if you only go for FP, if you do all your weeklies in a couple of weeks you can buy a BH piece which is better than any columi...and in ops you are in competition with more people so can happen to go home with nothing earned..finally WH gear is better than columi too sometimes..since i look for commendations mainly i don't really care about drops..this does not mean i'm not in favor of a loot system reform..

LOTRO implemented a new system that has drops for each person that contributes to a kill. I don't see why it is so improbable that everyone spending time/effort going through an op/fp should have to roll for the 1 -3 items that drop. Comms are just a slow way of getting the specific piece you want. If everyone were to receive a drop, there would be less time grinding to gear, and more time to do ... oh wait that is all there is for endgame. What would be nice is to have other things to do besides gear grind.

 

Less focus on gear, more focus on entertainment.

 

I agree with this...

Edited March 7, 2013 by Themanthatisi

Well, i tend to avoid the group content while leveling up, got fed up with all the 'SPACE BAR NAW!!' crap from all those impatient children, so i have no idea what that is like to experience ninja looting, but the way the whole gearing up is right now, where the only other viable way to gear up your companion is to buy from the GTN, which can be over-expensive, i am not surprised that alot of players try to get the loot from flashpoints.

 

In the end, the companion is part of our character, the way combat is done, you need the companion as geared up as possible, especially if you use the DPS or tank companion, though the only real solution is to use the healer companion when you get him/her, because the dps/tank companions need as good gear as the player to be equally as good as the healer is in plain greens.

 

If anything, it was poorly designed by bioware, it was insanely stupid to make the companion make such a huge difference to the combat experience, its just my opinion, not that it matters.

 

Overall, ninja-looting will always be an issue, its just one of those things.

Idea: Start PVPing and earn your gear like men.

Idea: Start PVPing and earn your gear like men.

 

I tried that, i kept falling asleep, pvp is soooo boringly predictable and the fact that its always 3v1 or 4v1, its obviously not men that do pvp, more like people that lack backbone.

 

Don't get me wrong, pvp used to be fun, when it was more about the playing the game, its become more about just winning and that is what makes it so boringly predictable.

 

It was more fun when it was more about the journey to winning or losing, i remember it well, where the winner or loser of the game would say things like 'good game mate, you were pretty good', now its 'oh my god, you suck' or 'oh my god, you hacker' its just got too competitive and its only if you win that matters, not the fun inbetween the start and end.

^ Yeah sure, and pve isn't any predictable at all...lol.

Problem with pvp gear is that before level 50, there are only 2 sets of pvp gear, level 20 gear and level 40 gear. For levels 30-39, pvp doesn't keep you geared.

 

Personally, I think ninjalooting is a problem, but making it impossible to need unless you can equip the item and benefit from it just does have a lot of problems.

1. As it is already said, it would be remarkably harder to need for a companion. Before you can write to the chat "hey, do you people mind to pass if I'd greed that to my comp?", the rest of the group has already pressed need/greed/pass, not to mention that you would actually have to ask it before you know if anyone would actually need it.

2. For trading afterwards, there are a few types of people that make it hard: a. people that just want the fp done and don't want to wait all the trading to happen, b. people who don't speak english (problematic in pretty much every else option, too, but wanted to mention that), c. people who just feel like being rude and d. f2p and preferred, who can't trade.

3. Now, let's say that I'm a commando and the only trooper in the group. A boss drops a good, moddable vanguard shield, but since I'm a commando, I can't equip it. What I could do is to change the mods to my other gear (in this case those mods would be better than what I have, tanking mods or not). Wouldn't I "need" the gear a bit more than another player who wants the enhancement from it, wants to give it to comp or just sell it for good money?

4. People could still ninja things they don't need as long as they could benefit from it (and yes, that can be ninjaing, or at least my sniper has been accused for ninjaing an agent columi piece since she was wearing a wh piece and people didn't think I could need the columi...and no, I did not ninja, I was trying to get a full columi for a pve gear since people really look down on people trying to do pve on wh gear)

 

This would only be avoided by adding "semi-need" button to people that can't benefit from the gear but have some other need to it. And after that, of course, ninjas would start abusing that button and the problem would only be half-solved.

 

I'd personally prefer alternative solutions. First, to prevent accidental ninjaing, it would be useful if a codex about need/greed/pass would pop up when first grouping with another player or at least when player accepts the mission for The Esseles of Black Talon. It should clearly explain in which situations you should need the piece of equipment in order to not to annoy other players.

Also, especially in ops where there's 8 people rolling need/greed/pass, it's pretty easy for a ninja to go unnoticed when the chat is quickly filled with x rolls x on item x -messages. It would be more easy to detect ninja if people who pressed need would me marked somehow, i.e. they'd have a small icon next to their name in the ops frame for the next 30-60 seconds. Putting your mouse on this icon would show what the player has rolled need for the last 30-60 seconds. If everything the boss dropped is on that list, it would be clear without doubt to anyone that this person is ninjaing and should be kicked from the ops group (or fp group, though in there it's much easier to spot a ninja when only 4 people roll on the loot).

1. As it is already said, it would be remarkably harder to need for a companion. Before you can write to the chat "hey, do you people mind to pass if I'd greed that to my comp?", the rest of the group has already pressed need/greed/pass, not to mention that you would actually have to ask it before you know if anyone would actually need it.

 

A companion need button should have been there from the start. To simply trust players that they will only press greed for companions when they infact in most cases uses need, might have been a nice sociological experiment from their side but now the show is over and we need that button or a better common sense lootsystem. Create a companion need button that has priority over greed button but not over need button. If players keep on hitting the companionbutton for everything then just kick them, they are obviously not rolling fair.

 

 

2. For trading afterwards, there are a few types of people that make it hard: a. people that just want the fp done and don't want to wait all the trading to happen, b. people who don't speak english (problematic in pretty much every else option, too, but wanted to mention that), c. people who just feel like being rude and d. f2p and preferred, who can't trade.

 

If someone has decided to ninja a item it is hard to make them let go of it. Eventhough they speak enough language to start and play the game, they "suddenly" becomes unaware of any written language. There are situations where language can be a barrier but those are few nowdays. Regarding F2P, there is not much to say there.

 

3. Now, let's say that I'm a commando and the only trooper in the group. A boss drops a good, moddable vanguard shield, but since I'm a commando, I can't equip it. What I could do is to change the mods to my other gear (in this case those mods would be better than what I have, tanking mods or not). Wouldn't I "need" the gear a bit more than another player who wants the enhancement from it, wants to give it to comp or just sell it for good money?

 

As I have mentnioned eariler, if you have a tank role and inform the group that you are looking for tank gear. The group will be in 99% of the cases fine with you taking whatever defence items that drop. A group is always interested in keeping a good tank happy. Even with a future common sense lootsystem it works because eventhough you can not directly press need, you can instruct the team to pass on defence gear and you recieve it by pressing the greed button. Communication is the key here, if a item has a defencemod that matches with the role you currently have in the flashpoint, any decent team will let you have it. I do see several problems though if you starts needing on tank gear with a dps role, then you will probably both get kicked out and ignored for future groups.

 

4. People could still ninja things they don't need as long as they could benefit from it (and yes, that can be ninjaing, or at least my sniper has been accused for ninjaing an agent columi piece since she was wearing a wh piece and people didn't think I could need the columi...and no, I did not ninja, I was trying to get a full columi for a pve gear since people really look down on people trying to do pve on wh gear)

 

If you take a item that is correct for your class, it has the right armor type and the right primary stat it will never be ninjalooting. Some might call it bad judgement but the term ninja comes from someone taking something not belonging to then.

 

This would only be avoided by adding "semi-need" button to people that can't benefit from the gear but have some other need to it. And after that, of course, ninjas would start abusing that button and the problem would only be half-solved.

 

Actually what we need are rules regarding the use of those buttons. As it is now the needbutton simply do a roll where the need button reaches a number (probably +200 or something) that always be higher then the greed button, hence giving the item to the winner. The "semi-need" button is not a bad idea but I think the greed button works fine here. What lacks is a definition of HOW to use the different buttons and when. I have in hundreds of posts written of a system where the different classes get priority over others. A trooper gets priority over a light armor sage and the other way around, a agent gets priority to get the item over some other player that wants the item for its companion and so on.....

This is by far the best suggestion I have seen since ToR introduced the new need/greed buttons, they were not there from the start if some of you remembers. The random here will simply be from the pool of items the boss can drop and the excitement will still be there for the ones participating in the flashpoint.

 

 

I'd personally prefer alternative solutions. First, to prevent accidental ninjaing, it would be useful if a codex about need/greed/pass would pop up when first grouping with another player or at least when player accepts the mission for The Esseles of Black Talon. It should clearly explain in which situations you should need the piece of equipment in order to not to annoy other players.

 

Yes a Codex written in very simple english with "do and do nots" could help alot, especially those that have no clue what those buttons are that pops up after each loot. I have met several players that thought greed was the button to press if you wanted something and need was ment for something else.

The lack of codex regarding loot in ToR is to my opinion something Bioware has not thought through and probably has no clue how to handle in the future, hence all the silence throughout the thousands of posts regarding this.

 

I would not mind if Bioware woke up and started communicating with the community regarding this, there are several questions here with posts that comes up from time to time that gladly we want answerered.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Icestar

I wish they would add in the option you can only roll on gear you can use prob. tide to your stats of the character (player) only and maybe have a option for companion (need) like we have the RE option so we have 4 options instead of three or something along those lines.

 

I have avoided pug's (Pick Up Groups) for over 6 years due to this type of experience and thought it was time to try grouping again using group finder for daily FP runs and after some good runs did Wargames fp normal today and on last boss it dropped various loot parts and 1 blaster which I needed as I was the only Gunslinger and it was a nice upgrade only to find the trooper (healer) and Jedi Guardian (tank) both rolled need for it to and the Guardian won it ...got static from the guardian so hes on /ignore and so is the trooper for even rolling need on an item they couldn't use.

Now I'll just stop using GF and back to solo grinding I guess.it's funny how a small amount of selfish players can ruin the enjoyment of a game....

 

I am in a guild but most are level 50 and not many on during the day otherwise I would choose guild groups over GF any day

Edited March 12, 2013 by Avorniel

Seems to me we should rename this thread "No-one likes the Loot System for Groups"?

 

I have to say, as a relative newcomer to MMO type games but a veteran of many other dungeon crawl loot-em-ups I first learnt the term "loot ninja" the hard way: in SWTOR by being accused of it myself! At the time it was a genuine mistake, i was still learning the rules of what kit I needed, let alone what "need" or "greed" was. I have to say, getting kicked from a group when I was so new to a game was a tough way to learn and that kind of reaction put me off grouping for MONTHS and nearly off the game altogether. All you guys getting an annoyed about "ninjas" need to remember we all gotta learn somewhere. I've had some better experiences since, and tbh I take the Easy Come Easy Go approach to all in this game now; there'll always be something better along in a minute. If I get no loot, so be it. Happens in single player too sometimes.

 

My solutions:

 

1) Drop the buttons, the system allocates loot and gives the best to those who contribute most to a kill - thou for a Healer some credit for actually healing too! Nothing for players to grief about now...

 

2) New Player / Tutorial Group Content: we haven't all spent 15 years doing MMOs. Got to learn somewhere. In SWTOR its bad enough in Heroics. The idea of a Level 50 Operation scares me to death, even after having got one character to that level. I get the impression non-experts = not welcome?

It will never happen. Some players don't necessarily use just their main stats. It depends how you use your character. I could see you not being able to pick up heavy armors if you only can wear mediums.. but that's about it. Even for jedis to pick up blasters.. Because they can get the mods from them. Some of them need some aim or whatever the stat is.

And the dumbest comment of the year award goes to:

It will never happen. Some players don't necessarily use just their main stats. It depends how you use your character. I could see you not being able to pick up heavy armors if you only can wear mediums.. but that's about it. Even for jedis to pick up blasters.. Because they can get the mods from them. Some of them need some aim or whatever the stat is.

It will never happen. Some players don't necessarily use just their main stats. It depends how you use your character. I could see you not being able to pick up heavy armors if you only can wear mediums.. but that's about it. Even for jedis to pick up blasters.. Because they can get the mods from them. Some of them need some aim or whatever the stat is.

 

I will be nice and not say what I think of your post, I do advise you though to read up regarding how items and stats work with characters.

 

What you write really, really proves my point in having a common sense lootsystem where the right items end up in the right hands. Players not knowing how the game works is one of the reasons

Edited March 13, 2013 by Icestar

I can see a certain amount of merit in your suggestion, however I still disagree. Taking away my ability to need an item simply because it falls outside my main stats would frustrate me.

 

I primarily play with a group of friend plus one person found through group finder, and having the option to ask in general chat 'anyone mind if I need this for my comp' and being able to need after receiving the ok makes my life much easier than attempting to contact a group member after a roll has been won.

 

Instead I would like to second the notion of a 'companion' button, and ask that hover descriptions be added when you pass over each option. (E.g. Need: Press for items that will upgrade your character, 2. Greed: Select for items that have useful components or if required for a companion, Disassemble: Select to dismantle an item and revive components, perhaps a tip could be added down the bottom too? Something like: Tip ask in general chat to need an item for your companion, if the group agrees proceed) something like this would take away the oh so convenient 'I didn't understand what the buttons meant' and help the new guys who have no idea what this system means.

 

Ill also mention that I disagree with loot being awarded on damage done simply because this would favour the DPS beyond reason, and leave the tank (who draws the most fire, but in trade off does smaller amounts of damage) with little chance of gaining loot. Also the main reason people want loot? To upgrade there gear to do better damage, shielding healing etc

 

N'way that's just my thoughts on the subject.