I keep hearing about new features being added like a new race and a barbershop, but they are not included in my subscription? My $15 a month is paying for you to develop these new fun features, so they should be included. It really makes me feel ripped off because $15 a month is a lot more than $0 a month. The cartel market should purely be for things that you haven't been developing to add to the game. The cartel market should be for only free to play people to have to use. My $15 a month should include any new races because we are paying you to develop them. So I don't get why you are nickle and diming us when we are paying you $15 a month. I could understand if our subscription was $5 a month, but it is $15 and my $15 a month includes any new races and any simple barbershop features in World of Warcraft. Please consider that we as subscribers are paying you to develop all these new fun things. And if we have to pay extra for fun then why are we paying the big amount of $15 a month?

You get CC per month as a subscriber. Don't waste them on packs, buy the things you really need and you wont have to spend a single penny beyond the subscription fee.

Yes, but I shouldn't have to pay extra for a race in which on the other game in my subscription for $15 a month they are all included. Doesn't anyone else feel like $15 a month is a big deal compared to $0? and what exactly are we paying for with that $15 a month if nothing new seems to be included for that money? This is why I hate free to play games. I love subscription because normally you aren't getting nickle and dimed beyond my $15 a month. My cc should be for whatever extra unlocks I want to use them on that I don't want to pay for with in game credits. Otherwise, everything should be included in $15 a month because that pays their developers to add new fun stuff. If this was still only subscription, Cathar would be included period.

To be fair, they do keep stressing that most of these features are "discounted" by a supposedly-meaningful margin for subscribers.

 

And these are all "luxury" features within the context of the firm, core gameplay — even if they are extremely appealing luxuries. They're not making Subs pay for a new Flashpoint or warzone (... yet). You can play the actual game to completion without turning into a cat or changing your Legacy name to something better than "Sirsmellypants".

 

Don't get me wrong; I agree that we're continuing to watch the inevitable slippery-slope forming with regard to Cartel Coins. However, I think it also needs to be put in perspective that where we currently are with 2.1 isn't that bad. Somewhat annoying, yes. But I don't think it's reaching "sub = worthless", yet.

 

And maybe microtransactions are just the future of this genre, to be honest. Perhaps one generation of MMO players has just gotten too used to one business model — a model which the game companies themselves are finding is inferior to this checkstand impulse-buy approach.

 

Yes, but I shouldn't have to pay extra for a race in which on the other game in my subscription for $15 a month they are all included.

Be careful. Most of the time, if any MMO releases something which takes massive development time — like a new class, or a new race/species — it comes packaged as part of an Expansion Pack.

 

In WoW, if you wanted to make a new Blood Elf, Spacegoat, Werewolf, Death Knight, Goblin, or lolpanda, you had to shell out $20-40 for the current expansion. In a sense, BioWare's approach is to break that up into smaller chunks — $10 here for a planet, $6 here for a were-cat ... etc.

 

Granted, the overall cost is probably going to end much higher than $40 if you want everything this "expansion" (2.0 cycle) has to offer. But I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Edited May 10, 2013 by SW_display_name

Yes, but, we already paid the $10 for the xpac, and by the time the Cathar comes out that is about $15 x 2 months, so that is $30 plus the $10, with that you are at $40 already, which is getting damned close to the $50 for an expac that lasts for 2 years which includes everything.

In a fair free to play where there is a subscriber involved, then the subscriber should be able to use the cartel market only if they don't have the in game credits to pay for something. That is my opinion. If they don't make us feel like our $15 a month is including anything new and that includes fun things like a new race, then that is a bad business model. They should be treating their subscribers like royalty because we subsidize their development team. We are the steady constant customers and so we should be rewarded, not feel like our $15 is just a cash grab. It feel like a "gimme" child after a while like eventually we will just stop giving if we aren't appreciated for that whole $15 a month.

what you get ...

 

500 CC a month (so yeh the things in the store are free as long as you dont gamble your coins away)

12 character slots

The ability to send credits in mail between alts (this is a biggy for me)

No credit cap

Hide headslot / unify colours

6 quick bars

Unlimited warzones

Unlimited flashpoint rolls

Unlimited space missions

Artefact equipment

Event Equipment

Access to Operations

Access to things like Section X

Faster levelling & rested XP

Discounted expansions (assuming they continue that theme)

No restrictions on chat

 

... thats all i can think of right now. As someone who doesnt always have a lot of time to play this game, I often unsub for a while. Its fine for just ocasional playing but when I actually want to really play the game properly I alway resub. It makes a massive difference especially if your an alt-aholic like me. So yeh, personally i do think its worth £9 (or $15) a month, I mean thats like the price of a cinema ticket or two pints and a packet of crisps.....

Yes, but, we already paid the $10 for the xpac, and by the time the Cathar comes out that is about $15 x 2 months, so that is $30 plus the $10, with that you are at $40 already, which is getting damned close to the $50 for an expac that lasts for 2 years which includes everything.

 

while I'm not too happy about how bioware is approaching customization options and I do feel that subscription keeps losing value - your math here is wrong.

 

you are assuming that there is no subscription feel with other games that charge $40 for expansion.

 

the real math looks more like

$40 plus $30 for 2 months subscription - that's $70 vs TOR's $40.. and where you have to keep paying that $15 subscription to gain access to expansion that you originally paid $40 for, so you cannot add subscription fees to the cost when talking to TOR, without also adding them to other games that do in fact charge it.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Jeweledleah

Yeah, I don't want to hear what I get compared to free to play because my $15 a month already included all those supposed perks that subscribers get now when it wasn't free to play, when I playing a subscriber only game. the point is that subscribers shouldn't feel like they have to go and spend their cc on the fun things they paid to develop in the future of the game. this should all be inlcluded. otherwise, don't give me the damned stipend, because at this point i feel like that stipend is being used as an excuse for us to have to pay for things that should be included as a subscriber already. I would rather pay the $50 or $60 per expansion plus $15 a month and get these fun things all included period....

Let's take Hulu for instance. You can pay or not pay the $8 a month, but you don't pay extra everytime their is a new Office episode that comes out. That is why I personally feel ripped off here by this game. We are paying for them to add the new content, so we should be able to enjoy it for free and not have to use our stipend on it.

Let's take Hulu for instance. You can pay or not pay the $8 a month, but you don't pay extra everytime their is a new Office episode that comes out. That is why I personally feel ripped off here by this game. We are paying for them to add the new content, so we should be able to enjoy it for free and not have to use our stipend on it.

 

The problem is you don't know where the money comes from.

 

What about people that sub AND spend money on the cartel market, shouldn't they have even more access to things than someone who's only paying for his sub ?

 

BW stance hasn't changed, content update is free (except expansion), customization is not.

Honestly I feel the only reason I sub (and not F2P) is the credit cap. Its cheaper to buy all the authorizations and weekly passes (which cost less than $15/1m ratio for buying cartel packs and reselling).

I figure I ought to point out that this is basically an extra update within the whole "eight weeks" release schedule, with another update coming early June (11th?) which won't be as Cartel Market focused - who knows, maybe they'll even include another area like Section X that is free for subscribers.

As annoying as it might be, most F2P MMO's actually charge you for recustomizations, as do the sub games that actually have it available;

 

WoW: You can change your hair and beard for in game gold, anything further than that and you pay Blizzard real money.

Aion: Changing your character requires you to buy a customization plastic surgery ticket from the store.

TERA: See Aion

TSW: Same deal as Aion and TERA

RIFT: Not a clue, never played past level 20 - anyone?

Neverwinter: Once again, bought from their store.

DDO: I don't think it was available when I played, unless it was included in the reincarnation items (which were bought from their store)

LOTR: Not a clue, never played it.

City of Heroes/Villains: In game credits - but the game is also shut down and R.I.P.

 

Like every other company they are going to follow the "industry standard" - so if other MMO's charge for re-customizations... yeah...

what you get ...

 

500 CC a month (so yeh the things in the store are free as long as you dont gamble your coins away)

12 character slots

The ability to send credits in mail between alts (this is a biggy for me)

No credit cap

Hide headslot / unify colours

6 quick bars

Unlimited warzones

Unlimited flashpoint rolls

Unlimited space missions

Artefact equipment

Event Equipment

Access to Operations

Access to things like Section X

Faster levelling & rested XP

Discounted expansions (assuming they continue that theme)

No restrictions on chat

 

 

Those "features" don't use enough resources to justify the price tag. A one month subscription is more than half the cost of the Hutt Cartel, which is why they can offer it at half price for subscribers.

Stop subscribing and you'll see how much your 15$ makes a difference. If 15$ is that big of a deal to you, maybe you shouldn't be paying for a subscription?

I'm not going to list the differences, only say that convenience is the key. It is far more convenient to just pay the 15 bucks and avoid some of the draconian restrictions.

Believe me, the Subscription benefits you get with this game are excellent compared to the F2P game i came from. I know i am using one game as an example here, but it is a good example of how Subs can be really screwed over.

 

I came from Star Trek Online. And frankly, its subscribtion model consists of

 

• Priority Login
  
• 3 Extra Character Slots
  
• A small (and i mean small) amount of Zen (equiv of Cartel Coins) a month
  

 

Non-subscribers of that game get everything else and can purchase every of the above with bought "Zen".

We get a lot more. Plus the subscription fee is, if i remember rightly, is much more manageble on smaller incomes on SWTOR.

 

I'm not saying you, OP, are wrong. I am just pointing out that we are pretty well looked after as subscribers, compared to some others MMOs.

 

Regards

Edited May 10, 2013 by FreePrometheus

There's a couple of reasons why $15 per month may not cover it. One is that there aren't enough people subscribing to cover for their expensive development costs. EA spent a lot of money putting this game out. Investors blah blah blah wanted to see returns. When subs went down they cuts costs all around including firing staff and went free to play.

 

Hence the greedy money grubbing leach of a Cartel Market to make up the difference of unavailable subscribers. They are getting the money from the rest of us and some from the free to players. I agree that Subscribers should not have to pay full price for anything in the Cartel Market regardless of Cartel coins per month. It is such a small amount that getting most things worthwhile would take too long to accumulate.

 

As for the bile infested gambling packs, they are no doubt, the largest source of their income and also one of the dirtiest underhanded attempts to leach as much from customers as humanly possible. Seriously disgusting display of American greed. There will always be a sucker somewhere who will hand over a dump truck full of money for those packs, and they know it.

Edited May 10, 2013 by xorcist

Believe me, the Subscription benefits you get with this game are excellent compared to the F2P game i came from. I know i am using one game as an example here, but it is a good example of how Subs can be really screwed over.

 

I came from Star Trek Online. And frankly, its subscribtion model consists of

 

• Priority Login
  
• 3 Extra Character Slots
  
• A small (and i mean small) amount of Zen (equiv of Cartel Coins) a month
  

 

Subscribers of that game get everything else and can purchase every of the above with bought "Zen".

We get a lot more. Plus the subscription fee is, if i remember rightly, is much more manageble on smaller incomes on SWTOR.

 

I'm not saying you, OP, are wrong. I am just pointing out that we are pretty well looked after as subscribers, compared to some others MMOs.

 

Regards

 

Ah, Perfect World/Cryptic...

Yep, people that think Bioware/EA is greedy really need to play one of their games - where you don't have to buy the Cartel Packs, you get them stuffed into your inventory the whole time while playing... for free... except that you need to buy the keys to unlock them.

Ah, Perfect World/Cryptic...

Yep, people that think Bioware/EA is greedy really need to play one of their games - where you don't have to buy the Cartel Packs, you get them stuffed into your inventory the whole time while playing... for free... except that you need to buy the keys to unlock them.

 

Oh, please! dont remind me Those bloody boxes were the bane of my Starfleet career...

Seriously disgusting display of American greed. There will always be a sucker somewhere who will hand over a dump truck full of money for those packs, and they know it.

 

Not sure those are an American invention, Asian gaming companies (like the above mentioned Perfect World) have been using "treasure chests" that contain random loot (including super rare mounts) for many years.

Bioware just implemented it slightly differently, the difference being that they are drops in those games - and that you have to buy the keys to open them with real money - here you skip the whole key thing and just buy it straight from the source, same results - different implementation.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Callaron

Fifteen bucks just gets you server access. Everything else is just gravy.

Well, you spend much more such as on a movie in real life. 15 bucks for an entire month of enjoyment and access to 8 class stories is plenty compared to a 2-3 hour movie.

$15/month entitles you to complain about non-subscribers being the bane of your existance.

 

>.>

 

<.<

"Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?"