Anishor Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 yeah. it made the hunter like leap backwards... reverse charge? Would have to make sure they can't be lept to for like 5s afterwards too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtBranham Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The need to be able to go into "Turret Mode". While in this mode, they can't move, they cannot be interrupted, get a 2nd aoe knockback, and it would give them a blanket percent damage increase. Downside is they are rooted for 1 or 2 sec when exiting turret mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 do you not realize that instant cast TM/PS would allow you to try to kill the other guy? utility skills are going to do nothing but allow us to run away faster, which offers ZERO offensive potential. instant cast allow you to fight back while under pressure. instant cast allows you to maintain DPS, which right now merc has no chance of doing when under pressure. MERC DPS WOULD NOT INCREASE. you would be able to do the exact same damage that you can now when left alone, but with instant cast you could do it under pressure. meaning you would not be absolutely worthless once 1 person decides to kill you. the ability to use a skill instantly does not magically increase the amount of damage it can do, it simply allows you to use the ability more reliably. I'd like you to go tell that to all the snipers and sages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The need to be able to go into "Turret Mode". While in this mode, they can't move, they cannot be interrupted, get a 2nd aoe knockback, and it would give them a blanket percent damage increase. Downside is they are rooted for 1 or 2 sec when exiting turret mode. OMG this would be pretty cool. I'm thinking troopers could be like a siege tank from Starcraft. Go into turret mode and gain splash damage on all our abilities, while being immune to CCs and interrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I'd like you to go tell that to all the snipers and sages. what does a sage use utility for? to stun and run away so they can heal up. a sniper can go into cover and become unchargeable and uninterruptable, and they have a great CC immunity skill. those classes are fine, and you cannot really compare them to Merc because the mechanics of each class are very different. a "turret mode" would solve a lot of problems, but would basically turn us into snipers. uninterruptable is really what we need, in some shape or form. whether that is from instant cast or from "turret mode", we need a way to reliable use our casted abilities to maintain our dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury_Down Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 what does a sage use utility for? to stun and run away so they can heal up. a sniper can go into cover and become unchargeable and uninterruptable, and they have a great CC immunity skill. those classes are fine, and you cannot really compare them to Merc because the mechanics of each class are very different. a "turret mode" would solve a lot of problems, but would basically turn us into snipers. uninterruptable is really what we need, in some shape or form. whether that is from instant cast or from "turret mode", we need a way to reliable use our casted abilities to maintain our dps I agree, we've already got fully functioning turrets. When I think of a commando/merc I think of an M1A1 tank. Realtively slow moving but able to deal some serious punishment. I'd argue they don't need to be uninterruptable but need to be able to cast while moving and make their armor (same goes for VGs/PTs) apply to all damage. Leave their damage as it is, make them be able to cast while moving, don't give them any movement powers, and make their armor apply to all damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I agree, we've already got fully functioning turrets. When I think of a commando/merc I think of an M1A1 tank. Realtively slow moving but able to deal some serious punishment. I'd argue they don't need to be uninterruptable but need to be able to cast while moving and make their armor (same goes for VGs/PTs) apply to all damage. Leave their damage as it is, make them be able to cast while moving, don't give them any movement powers, and make their armor apply to all damage. casting while moving doesnt really solve anything, as you can still be interrupted. have you tried to go into a ranked match with a merc lately? with all the leaping, CCing, and interrupting going on, stoping to cast is pretty much sealing your doom. merc needs a way to output damage reliably, and instant cast or "turret mode" do that easiest. also, lets look at this from a coding aspect. to add "turret mode" bioware needs to create a whole new ability, animation/effect, icon, and then code it to function properly. to add casting while moving, bioware needs to create a new mechanic and code it to function properly. to add instant cast, bioware needs to change the value of Muzzle Fluting from .5s reduction to 2s reduction. you tell me which solution is least developer intensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury_Down Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 casting while moving doesnt really solve anything, as you can still be interrupted. have you tried to go into a ranked match with a merc lately? with all the leaping, CCing, and interrupting going on, stoping to cast is pretty much sealing your doom. merc needs a way to output damage reliably, and instant cast or "turret mode" do that easiest. also, lets look at this from a coding aspect. to add "turret mode" bioware needs to create a whole new ability, animation/effect, icon, and then code it to function properly. to add casting while moving, bioware needs to create a new mechanic and code it to function properly. to add instant cast, bioware needs to change the value of Muzzle Fluting from .5s reduction to 2s reduction. you tell me which solution is least developer intensive. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see instant cast as well, but I doubt that will happen. The damage of the class would go up considerably if they made GR/TM and/or Charged bolts instant. It wouldn't be through the roof but given the nerfs to Merc/Mando damage I can't see them going back. It would be like admiting they were wrong. That's why I think we'd have a better chance of getting casting while moving. I wouldn't say no to any kind of interrupt protection either way. Not to mention, make the heavy armor actually count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nassik Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Casting while moving doesn't really help, as Cash said, because we can still be interrupted. It reminds me of the saying, "You can run, but you'll die tired." We need both an escape and a way to put out damage reliably. Once targeted, a bounty hunter has no where to go and no way to get there. And fighting back is pretty pointless since those cast abilities get interrupted immediately. the jet pack suggestion still seems a worthwhile idea... an instant cast backwards launch of 25-30 meters to escape Force leap range. Pair it with a simultaneous Rapid shots, and give it a cool down. Even with an instant cast tracer missile, our big hits would still be cast abilities so we'd still have to stand still to get off any attack with substantial power (thus utilizing those tracer missile heat stacks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 what does a sage use utility for? to stun and run away so they can heal up. a sniper can go into cover and become unchargeable and uninterruptable, and they have a great CC immunity skill. those classes are fine, and you cannot really compare them to Merc because the mechanics of each class are very different. a "turret mode" would solve a lot of problems, but would basically turn us into snipers. uninterruptable is really what we need, in some shape or form. whether that is from instant cast or from "turret mode", we need a way to reliable use our casted abilities to maintain our dps You've clearly never played either sniper or dps sage if you think utility is only for running away and healing. They use utility skills to K I T E properly. Kiting allows them to dps, or heal if need be. Kiting is how ranged classes can kill melee classes. Making CB/GR instant does not allow us to kite since we still have no way to snare/root melees, and no escapes. Thus, we still die to melee. Yes, we'll do a bit more damage before we die, but we will still die nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 You've clearly never played either sniper or dps sage if you think utility is only for running away and healing. They use utility skills to K I T E properly. Kiting allows them to dps, or heal if need be. Kiting is how ranged classes can kill melee classes. Making CB/GR instant does not allow us to kite since we still have no way to snare/root melees, and no escapes. Thus, we still die to melee. Yes, we'll do a bit more damage before we die, but we will still die nonetheless. why do you not seem to understand that instant attacks can be used on the move, ie WHILE KITING. if TM was instant, the root on Rocket Punch wouldnt be so terrible, neither would the slow on the end of Jet Boost, and neither would the 70% slow on unload. As far as the utility that Merc needs, we need a reliable snare. I think Missile Blast is as good a candidate as any for that. It would need its heat cost reduced to 16, but it is low damaging and would be perfect for something like a 30% slow with 4-6s duraton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejavy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) 1. Root 2. Instant casts with CD 3. RS with immunity (sniper/GS analogue) _______________________ BW, give it to us, Resurrect us from the PVP grave!!! Edited November 15, 2012 by dejavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piam Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 It's a combination of all 3. Utility is great and all, but no team is going to want a dps that can't dps effectively. Season plays RWZs as a DPS Commando with Don't Panic and gets top damage or close to top. The problem is, DPS Sages do equivalent damage (when they focus on just doing damage), but have far more utility. Between friendly pulls, a lower cooldown knockback that roots, bubble stun (!), off-healing, and force speed for transitions, there's no reason to bring a DPS Commando over a DPS Sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williambr Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 They should just allow Mercs the ability to use a companion in warzones. That would make them a little closer competitive wise to other classes lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Individual Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Why do mercs have to even kite? Just raise their DPS. Ya, sorcs can kite better, but do you they generally win in a 1 v 1 vs a murader? Not really. Dmg needs to be increased, not kiting skills. Lets also look at what sorcs can do now with their bubbles. How many melee are going to start crying when mercs can kite them? The issue is dmg. Edited November 15, 2012 by Individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) why do you not seem to understand that instant attacks can be used on the move, ie WHILE KITING. if TM was instant, the root on Rocket Punch wouldnt be so terrible, neither would the slow on the end of Jet Boost, and neither would the 70% slow on unload. As far as the utility that Merc needs, we need a reliable snare. I think Missile Blast is as good a candidate as any for that. It would need its heat cost reduced to 16, but it is low damaging and would be perfect for something like a 30% slow with 4-6s duraton. Since when does GR/CB being instant somehow stop melee from leaping at you and snaring/rooting you so you can't simply run away? Snipers/sages do well because they have tools that prevent or allow them to escape melee. Edited November 15, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Season plays RWZs as a DPS Commando with Don't Panic and gets top damage or close to top. The problem is, DPS Sages do equivalent damage (when they focus on just doing damage), but have far more utility. Between friendly pulls, a lower cooldown knockback that roots, bubble stun (!), off-healing, and force speed for transitions, there's no reason to bring a DPS Commando over a DPS Sage. Dunno who Season is since I quit a few months ago, and only resubbed to get my cartel coins, and haven't really played much except play alts. But I highly doubt Don't Panic would bring a dps commando against any good team because they would shut that commando down faster than a mexican ****** can go down on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Since when does GR/CB being instant somehow stop melee from leaping at you and snaring/rooting you so you can't simply run away? Snipers/sages do well because they have tools that prevent or allow them to escape melee. instead of being leapt to and having your cast interrupted, your current attack would go through and you would be able to keep using those skills because they are instant. meaning youre DPS output would be maintained while under pressure, and while you try to move away. right now, a mercs damage output drops off the chart when they are under pressure. i dont understand what you want Merc to have for utility? if you dont want to be leapt to, play a sniper. if you want to be able to force run away and stun a crapload of people, play a sage. unfortunately for you Merc is a completely different class with different mechanics, therefore serves a different role in the group. Merc does not *need* an escape ability. If i had to list the top 5 things i wanted for the class, it wouldnt be in there. I would really, really, really like to be able to do what i signed up for (ranged DPS) first and foremost. Bioware needs to fix that before they start giving Merc new utility skills. a reliable slow would go a long way, instant cast would help a lot with our vulnerability to being interrupted, and a few tweaks to abilities (concussion missile, rocket punch, etc) to make them more usable is really all that is needed. edit: also, the arguments so far against instant cast have been 1) will be too good at kiting, 2) will increase DPS of those abilities, and 3) not being able to interrupt Mercs will make them OP (lol at that btw). and now we've got you saying that Instant cast TM/PS / GR/CB would not help Merc/Commado with kiting Edited November 15, 2012 by cashogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piam Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Dunno who Season is since I quit a few months ago, and only resubbed to get my cartel coins, and haven't really played much except play alts. But I highly doubt Don't Panic would bring a dps commando against any good team because they would shut that commando down faster than a mexican ****** can go down on you. Mis's alt. Ranged classes don't get blown up/shut down if they are in a good team in RWZs. Not to say Commandos are good. Like I mentioned before, their utility sucks and DPS Sage brings way more to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 instead of being leapt to and having your cast interrupted, your current attack would go through and you would be able to keep using those skills because they are instant. meaning youre DPS output would be maintained while under pressure, and while you try to move away. right now, a mercs damage output drops off the chart when they are under pressure. And according to you, our dps isn't up to par with melee, so we'd still die before killing our melee opponent. We'd still not have utility. Dps commando problems NOT solved. i dont understand what you want Merc to have for utility? if you dont want to be leapt to, play a sniper. if you want to be able to force run away and stun a crapload of people, play a sage. unfortunately for you Merc is a completely different class with different mechanics, therefore serves a different role in the group. I guess you haven't done much or any RWZs, because utility matters a lot. Why would you bring dps that has little to no utility when you can bring another class that has just as good dps, but utility. Your instant cast GR/CB idea still won't make teams want to bring dps commandos. Problem NOT solved. Merc does not *need* an escape ability. If i had to list the top 5 things i wanted for the class, it wouldnt be in there. I would really, really, really like to be able to do what i signed up for (ranged DPS) first and foremost. Bioware needs to fix that before they start giving Merc new utility skills. Yes they do. If you don't want to get killed by melee, you need a way to effectively escape them and keep them away from you. a reliable slow would go a long way, instant cast would help a lot with our vulnerability to being interrupted, and a few tweaks to abilities (concussion missile, rocket punch, etc) to make them more usable is really all that is needed. We also need utility so we're wanted in pvp groups, especially since--according to you--our dps won't be better with GR/CB being instant. edit: also, the arguments so far against instant cast have been 1) will be too good at kiting, 2) will increase DPS of those abilities, and 3) not being able to interrupt Mercs will make them OP (lol at that btw). and now we've got you saying that Instant cast TM/PS / GR/CB would not help Merc/Commado with kiting It won't help with kiting. Kiting means being able to keep melee away from you while doing dps. Instant GR/CB allows you to dps, but won't keep melee off you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Mis's alt. Ranged classes don't get blown up/shut down if they are in a good team in RWZs. Not to say Commandos are good. Like I mentioned before, their utility sucks and DPS Sage brings way more to the table. I was talking about dps commandos in RWZs specifically, not ALL ranged dps classes. Snipers, sages do fine. I knew he had scrubby sorc, which we all enjoyed killing in RWZs, but I didn't know Mis had a commando. He's *********** super Godzilla pro beast mode though. You can't put him in the same category as other people. He's SSS rank. Who are you in game anyways? Edited November 16, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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