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This is outta control


WNxAbaddon

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From the announcement of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, some areas of the fan base, my self included, have been angered about the nickle and dimming that EA are doing, but the " expansion " as just made matters worse. This started when the cartel shop / F2P was released, this isnt a nee jerk reaction to one thing or the fact that its about $10 its about whats right and fair.

 

After watching the rise of the cartel coins vid, I goto say most of what they say make sense, so I goto ask is this turning into a P.R nightmare for the game ? and really do we subscribers have a right to be angry over $10 ?

 

Its fair to say there's a feeling of a lack of trust in EA / Biowear, we are being asked to pre order when there's little or no info on the forums and there's a LOT of questions about this " expansion " that need to be answered, this could be cleared up right here right now, if EA would come out and say " This is what your getting and you will need or not need the expo for the extra 5 lvls " But they wont.

 

So people are asking, What are they hiding most people are smart enough to smell a conn when they see it, add in EA track record and that is why people are angry, its not about $10, its about the P.R mess that EA find themselves in, It went from Subs wont pay, to Hmmmm wellllll We dont know, to Give me your money, RWZ was another mess that EA landed itself in its all down to poor communication, something EA as struggled with over this last year.

 

So the question for fans is, Do you trust EA enough to give them your $10 and do you think its fair that we cant use cartel coins to get the Expo ?

 

All most fans what is more information, then we can say this is fair or not, untill that info is out there, most people will rage stamp there feet arguing or defending the latest P.R mess, this only hurts the game, but questions need to be asked over this one more P.R mess that swtor finds itself in, due to a lack of thought and a money grabbing attitude.

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The sad thing is this could have been a really positive announcement and instead they've turned it into this horrible P.R. nightmare just to get subscribers to pay $25 one month instead of $15. And theyr'e going to lose subscribers over it! It's a shame.
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Whether it needs another thread or not, it's going to get one. Then another, and another. Every day.

 

Most people playing the game don't even know about this. As they find out, the ones that don't like it are going to come here and make a thread about it.

 

It's only a matter of time before one of the outside news sites picks up the story and writes about it. That will inform even more subscribers who will come here and make more threads about it.

 

If you don't like the complaining, then I HIGHLY recommend you take a break from the forums the day the patch comes out and thousands of unsub threads pop up. This isn't going to be a pretty place.

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From the announcement of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, some areas of the fan base, my self included, have been angered about the nickle and dimming that EA are doing, but the " expansion " as just made matters worse. This started when the cartel shop / F2P was released, this isnt a nee jerk reaction to one thing or the fact that its about $10 its about whats right and fair.

 

After watching the rise of the cartel coins vid, I goto say most of what they say make sense, so I goto ask is this turning into a P.R nightmare for the game ? and really do we subscribers have a right to be angry over $10 ?

 

Its fair to say there's a feeling of a lack of trust in EA / Biowear, we are being asked to pre order when there's little or no info on the forums and there's a LOT of questions about this " expansion " that need to be answered, this could be cleared up right here right now, if EA would come out and say " This is what your getting and you will need or not need the expo for the extra 5 lvls " But they wont.

 

So people are asking, What are they hiding most people are smart enough to smell a conn when they see it, add in EA track record and that is why people are angry, its not about $10, its about the P.R mess that EA find themselves in, It went from Subs wont pay, to Hmmmm wellllll We dont know, to Give me your money, RWZ was another mess that EA landed itself in its all down to poor communication, something EA as struggled with over this last year.

 

So the question for fans is, Do you trust EA enough to give them your $10 and do you think its fair that we cant use cartel coins to get the Expo ?

 

All most fans what is more information, then we can say this is fair or not, untill that info is out there, most people will rage stamp there feet arguing or defending the latest P.R mess, this only hurts the game, but questions need to be asked over this one more P.R mess that swtor finds itself in, due to a lack of thought and a money grabbing attitude.

 

"PvP – We have an entire team dedicated to adding content and features to player vs. player. We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team. So far very few people have seen, or know much about the stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis."

 

"For 2012 we really want players to, going back to the subscription model, feel like they're getting their money's worth. So the scope of our game updates in 2012 is going to be unimaginable. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

 

"SWTOR isn't really suited for a free-to-play model... we certainly have no plans like that in the foreseeable future. We're going to support the game to make it better and better as it goes on. It's going to be worth showing up for."

 

"BioWare hasn't yet seen any such exodus. Speaking with PC Gamer, BioWare's Daniel Erickson said that SWTOR numbers were holding steady. "

 

Ilum was broken and buggy and so poorly implemented it was removed from the game almost immediately after launch. 1.2 didn't come with half the things it promised. RWZ were cancelled only a few hours before the patch, and now a year later we haven't even officially started season one, we're still in preseason. Patches came out with nowhere near the regularity that they promised, nor the content, and datamining has proven that according to the old schedule, they've only released up to 1.4's content, they've simply strung it out to 1.6. The doctors didn't know that the game was going free to play scant months before it was announced? Just like they didn't know they were "retiring" ie running for the hills only a few weeks after this interview. And finally the big daddy, the numbers lie. Over and over we were told that the servers were fine, they weren't losing subs, don't worry. Everything is under control...

 

And those are just the biggies, of course there were many many many more, but those are the ones we really saw a big hit in numbers from, the ones that really dropped the game a peg or two. BW has lied to us so many times that there is literally no point in believing anything they say. Expect them to do the exact opposite from what they say and for every major decision to come out AGAINST the players and end up costing you more money.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.372827-BioWare-Says-SWTOR-Subscriptions-Havent-Dropped

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1225612p1.html

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20111213

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"PvP – We have an entire team dedicated to adding content and features to player vs. player. We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team. So far very few people have seen, or know much about the stunning Open World PVP on Ilum; when you get to the high levels prepare to be blown away! In addition to that high level PVP content, expect new Warzones and new PvP features on a regular basis."

 

"For 2012 we really want players to, going back to the subscription model, feel like they're getting their money's worth. So the scope of our game updates in 2012 is going to be unimaginable. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

 

"SWTOR isn't really suited for a free-to-play model... we certainly have no plans like that in the foreseeable future. We're going to support the game to make it better and better as it goes on. It's going to be worth showing up for."

 

"BioWare hasn't yet seen any such exodus. Speaking with PC Gamer, BioWare's Daniel Erickson said that SWTOR numbers were holding steady. "

 

Ilum was broken and buggy and so poorly implemented it was removed from the game almost immediately after launch. 1.2 didn't come with half the things it promised. RWZ were cancelled only a few hours before the patch, and now a year later we haven't even officially started season one, we're still in preseason. Patches came out with nowhere near the regularity that they promised, nor the content, and datamining has proven that according to the old schedule, they've only released up to 1.4's content, they've simply strung it out to 1.6. The doctors didn't know that the game was going free to play scant months before it was announced? Just like they didn't know they were "retiring" ie running for the hills only a few weeks after this interview. And finally the big daddy, the numbers lie. Over and over we were told that the servers were fine, they weren't losing subs, don't worry. Everything is under control...

 

And those are just the biggies, of course there were many many many more, but those are the ones we really saw a big hit in numbers from, the ones that really dropped the game a peg or two. BW has lied to us so many times that there is literally no point in believing anything they say. Expect them to do the exact opposite from what they say and for every major decision to come out AGAINST the players and end up costing you more money.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.372827-BioWare-Says-SWTOR-Subscriptions-Havent-Dropped

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1225612p1.html

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20111213

 

To sum it up, this game has been a scam since day one.

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Subscribers who had been told for a long time to anticipate Makeb as the biggest content update of the year were told in the last month that:

 

1. Makeb is now delayed until next year.

and

2. Makeb is no longer a content update. Makeb is a paid "expansion" subscribers pay extra for.

 

 

They then had the audacity to re-imagine their life-day event as a $24 cash-grab which had no content or artistic redesigns of any area whatsoever. No event.

 

Then they were told that the developers had left for the year on vacation. So bugs introduced earlier (such as the Frogger of doom being missing in TFB or TFB HM's last boss having completely borked adds) can not be fixed until next year.

 

To close out the year they made a thread all about how awesome they were and asked us to all share our favorite memories of the 1st anniversary of the game celebration. There was no celebration. No in-game event. There was only so very very much nerd rage.

So yes, subscribers are upset.

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Subscribers who had been told for a long time to anticipate Makeb as the biggest content update of the year were told in the last month that:

 

1. Makeb is now delayed until next year.

and

2. Makeb is no longer a content update. Makeb is a paid "expansion" subscribers pay extra for.

 

 

They then had the audacity to re-imagine their life-day event as a $24 cash-grab which had no content or artistic redesigns of any area whatsoever. No event.

 

Then they were told that the developers had left for the year on vacation. So bugs introduced earlier (such as the Frogger of doom being missing in TFB or TFB HM's last boss having completely borked adds) can not be fixed until next year.

 

To close out the year they made a thread all about how awesome they were and asked us to all share our favorite memories of the 1st anniversary of the game celebration. There was no celebration. No in-game event. There was only so very very much nerd rage.

So yes, subscribers are upset.

 

I think you hit on an important point that a lot of people are completely over looking.

 

Not only is this content that we as subscribers are being asked to PAY for when before hand it was considered a simple content update. But now on top of that it has been moved back, we have no firm release date, only a target season, which at the SOONEST would be three months from now. Add on top of that that subs won't be able to even use their cartel coins to buy the patch... er I mean "expansion TM." It's easy to see why it's a bit much to stomach quietly.

Edited by Durasturan
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Ilum was broken and buggy and so poorly implemented it was removed from the game almost immediately after launch. 1.2 didn't come with half the things it promised. RWZ were cancelled only a few hours before the patch, and now a year later we haven't even officially started season one, we're still in preseason. Patches came out with nowhere near the regularity that they promised, nor the content, and datamining has proven that according to the old schedule, they've only released up to 1.4's content, they've simply strung it out to 1.6. The doctors didn't know that the game was going free to play scant months before it was announced? Just like they didn't know they were "retiring" ie running for the hills only a few weeks after this interview. And finally the big daddy, the numbers lie. Over and over we were told that the servers were fine, they weren't losing subs, don't worry. Everything is under control...

 

And those are just the biggies, of course there were many many many more, but those are the ones we really saw a big hit in numbers from, the ones that really dropped the game a peg or two. BW has lied to us so many times that there is literally no point in believing anything they say. Expect them to do the exact opposite from what they say and for every major decision to come out AGAINST the players and end up costing you more money.

 

You've saved me a lot of typing summing up my feelings on the game and why they've now lost me, not only as a subscriber but a player, period. Makeb will be the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of subscribers.

Edited by Efefia
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So how do they go about fixing this.

 

They COULD.

 

For people who have pre ordered they could get a free month + a pet or speeder or something like this.

For subscribers who didnt pre order they could offer the " expo " for free / cartel coins with out extra stuff

For F2P people who pre orderd they could get the speeder / pet ( no free month )

For F2P they could lower the cost to say $10

 

This would seem fair to me as a subscriber, still alow people to pre order to get the " extras " if they want to, but this would give them extra income & give subs a fair deal

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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Basically its just a cash boost before the EA financials so they can justify that SWTOR is making some money compared to last year.

 

Remember, next February, they can compare like for like results and with the subs base short 1.4 million players has/will the cartel market be enough to bridge that gap? Who knows.

 

Do I trust EA? I would rather sleep in a bunk bed under Rosanne than trust EA.

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So yes, subscribers are upset.

 

I also think we have every right to.

from a subscribers pov fromt he beginning we got an unfinished game. they finished it instead of content updates (UI update and "allies" update was basically finishing the game on our sub) then comes free to play. loads of effeort went into that, a loyal subscriber does not care about free to play does not care about "them" making more cash, he has his subscription and compares the return with what he would get in other proper managed!! games.

 

so now that we paid for completing the game and paid for the transition into free to play which brings us nothing the time to say "thank you dear loyal customers who stayed when all others left us" would be just about right.

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Hell my one concern is the fact that they still haven't fixed all the bugs in the game. Seriously they want to think about putting all their resources into this patch ( expansion ) without first fixing all the known bugs. This seems lazy IMO. IMO what they should have done with the whole F2P thing was, allow them to level to 40 with one character and one character only, if they wanted the next 10 levels and unlimited WZ, FP, and opts, they needed to purchase the actual game for half off the original price. Then it would unlock everything, making the F2P person actually have to need an account and pay the 14.99 a month for a subscription or maybe a reduced cost for being a new subscriber for a couple months. When the game first released I never once experienced any game lag or crashes ever, but once F2P went active it has happened more and more. And it's player lag more than anything else. For an example, someone running 4 accounts at one time really bogs down my system. And for makeb, it should have been free for subscribers. So the idea I have posted above would have probably enticed the F2P player to actually do a subscription. Subscribers are bioware / EA's backbone when it comes to incoming money because we are spending 14.99 a month every month. Whereas the cartel market, people might buy coins, whereas the subscriber is constant. They just need to have more incentive to keep people subscribing and adding only 1 planet is very dumb IMO. They could have said, by christmas of next year there will be a new expansion with more class story, companion story, new armor and weapons, profession upgrades, new color crystals, etc. And this would have made people either wait or stay playing the game. By saying only 1 planet and no new story just tells me that they just want more money and don't care about the gamer anymore. If they really cared, all they outstanding bugs would have been fixed by now.......
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From the announcement of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, some areas of the fan base, my self included, have been angered about the nickle and dimming that EA are doing, but the " expansion " as just made matters worse. This started when the cartel shop / F2P was released, this isnt a nee jerk reaction to one thing or the fact that its about $10 its about whats right and fair.

 

After watching the rise of the cartel coins vid, I goto say most of what they say make sense, so I goto ask is this turning into a P.R nightmare for the game ? and really do we subscribers have a right to be angry over $10 ?

 

Its fair to say there's a feeling of a lack of trust in EA / Biowear, we are being asked to pre order when there's little or no info on the forums and there's a LOT of questions about this " expansion " that need to be answered, this could be cleared up right here right now, if EA would come out and say " This is what your getting and you will need or not need the expo for the extra 5 lvls " But they wont.

 

So people are asking, What are they hiding most people are smart enough to smell a conn when they see it, add in EA track record and that is why people are angry, its not about $10, its about the P.R mess that EA find themselves in, It went from Subs wont pay, to Hmmmm wellllll We dont know, to Give me your money, RWZ was another mess that EA landed itself in its all down to poor communication, something EA as struggled with over this last year.

 

So the question for fans is, Do you trust EA enough to give them your $10 and do you think its fair that we cant use cartel coins to get the Expo ?

 

All most fans what is more information, then we can say this is fair or not, untill that info is out there, most people will rage stamp there feet arguing or defending the latest P.R mess, this only hurts the game, but questions need to be asked over this one more P.R mess that swtor finds itself in, due to a lack of thought and a money grabbing attitude.

 

Everyone's a shareholder these days.

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Everyone's a shareholder these days.

 

If that was the case, I would be rolling in money, as am not, then I guess you just want to troll.

 

As a MMO vet, it seems odd that EAwear wanna go out there way to punish subscribers, everyone knows that F2P is there not to allow people to " test " the game or even to enjoy it, its there to bleed people of there $£$£$£.

 

But subs who have been loyal to the game should be treated as valued members of the community as well, its just wrong on so many levels, am just one guy, who isnt happy, but am not the only one, are we wrong to voice it, in a constructive manner ? are we wrong to say look this isnt on.

 

No one from EA will even talk to us, they wont join us and seek a fair deal for everyone, like so meny times before were just not listened to or even acknowledged, but people will still speak out or they will vote with there wallet, this will only hurt the game even more, cant you see am trying to stop that.

 

But I will not just lie down and take it, its just plain wrong.

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This is how this former free content is now be charged.

 

This with new flashpoint and new operation and new warzone and MAKEB content cap to 55 and ranked warzones and cathar were supposed to be all in the 1.5 content patch watch the video on the link.

 

 

 

But then EA fired everyone left from orginal founders of bioware and went ftp got greedy, we still dont have cathar or ranked warzones those be future expansion for each lol knowing EA.

 

It's not an expansion...

 

Not all expansions include a level cap raise, but MOST expansions do and MMO players generally relate a level cap raise with an expansion.

 

EA Suits: "Ok Bioware, how do we try to justify this as an expansion so we can charge for it?"

 

Bioware Devs: "Add new abilities to classes and raise the level cap"

 

EA Suits: "Good idea, so raise the level cap so we can charge for this content pack...err expansion I mean."

 

Bioware Devs: "The problem is that we don't have enough new content to justify a level cap increase - just a new planet and some story missions."

 

EA Suits: "Find a way to justify calling this an expansion, we need to charge for it."

 

Bioware Devs: "I guess we can just scale some of the old content so that it is still relevant at the new level cap."

 

EA Suits: "Whatever, just get it done."

 

Bioware Devs: "So how much are you charging for this "expansion?"

 

EA Suits: "$20 for F2P, $10 for Subs"

 

Bioware Devs: "Oh nice, so subs will just be able to use their monthly cartel coins to purchase the "expansion."

 

EA Suits: "(laughs), I like you. Also, no."

Edited by CritasStorm
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It's a game

It's $10

It's 100% optional

 

Please, step back and re-evaluate what is imporant to you enough to have a hussy fit over

 

I play the game, I enjoy it. to me its important enough to want to play it and want to subscribe, the " its only $10 " dosnt work, the its 100% optional " dosnt work let me tell you why.

 

The Its only $10 dosnt work as they said it would be free, THEN they said we dont know, then they said it wont be, Anyone company doing this would be ripped apart, how would you feel if you took your computer to be repaid, then the guy turned to you and said, this is easy ill do it for free, next day rings you up and says " meh I dunno it might cost you " then the day later says, " Its gonna cost you $10 but it might not work correct and some of the things you expected to happen like your fans working might not. you would be angry.

 

As for the 100% optional

 

You get a extra 5 levels & new skills, but it seems ONLY if you get the " expo " so let me ask you what happens to the rest of us who dont get it ? Will there be new content for the lvl 50's and lvl 55 ? no it would be silly thelvl 55's get it.

 

So you see you HAVE to get it to play any new content from then on, all your gear will be useless, your toons will be useless. so in the end you just stop playing.

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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It's a game

It's $10

It's 100% optional

 

Please, step back and re-evaluate what is imporant to you enough to have a hussy fit over

 

There is nothing wrong with voicing an opinion about the direction your favorite past time is taking. Most (Not all) but most of the complaints are pretty reasonable, besides, when money is involved, it becomes more of a service which needs feedback to grow

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It's a game

It's $10

It's 100% optional

 

Please, step back and re-evaluate what is imporant to you enough to have a hussy fit over

Sure, but it could have been marketed better... but I am saying that for over a year now that BioWares marketing sucks, not surprised that it still does.

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It's a game

It's $10

It's 100% optional

 

Please, step back and re-evaluate what is imporant to you enough to have a hussy fit over

 

I don't think you understand the long term consequences of a business decision like this. Not just in terms of where it leads the game as for future content updates, but how these kinds of decisions shape the KINDS of players you have left.

 

F2Pers are likely NOT going to buy this. I think it's safe to say that if you are playing this game f2p, won't sub, then it's likely you won't spend $20 for such a small amount of content. That means that a lot of the people that were infused into this game to help with things like queue times and grouping and leveling WONT BE THERE. Even the ones that decide to keep playing the game and just not buy the "expac" the ones that don't quit, they'll still be below the level cap and unable to queue for content.

 

How many players on each server do you think will actually be at 55? It will be like those of us that hit 50 4-5 days into the game, you had no one to group up with and were bored as heck, but now that will be the standard. There are few enough fifties as it is, there will be fewer still 55's and all the problems from before f2p and server merges will come rushing back.

 

TLDR: Putting another wall, especially a paywall, to getting players to max level means fewer players playing and much fewer players playing at max level. But not only charging but not allowing to even pay with CC and charging so much, they all but gauruntee that the number of people at 55 will suck. Bringing back all the problems from before the great merges and f2p brought more players to our servers.

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So yes, subscribers are upset.

 

I think you should speak for yourself. I'm a subscriber and I'm not upset.

 

$10 is nothing, I paid for the game, I pay for a subscription every 6 months, I pay for a high speed internet connection, and I paid for a computer to mash it all toghether into something enjoyable... AND I can still afford $10 one time for more content than a years worth of updates... AND I'm very happy to pay it.

 

You people need to get some perspective. If they gave it to you for free and said "there you go, that's next year's content, see you next December" You'd be throwing a fit again. But as it is, you're going to still continue getting new free content all year an you get this for only $10. If you can't comprehend that this is not unreasonable I seriously question how you can even comprehend the task of playing the game.

Edited by bahdasz
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First off Hi there, I have been playing the game since Beta, bought the digital deluxe and subbed for a few months until Real life issues came up and I had to Unsub, until then the game was fun, not perfect but I enjoyed it.

Now that things are settled i came back and played as a free player for a bit but decided to sub to get my "complimentary" cartel coins. I don't post much but wanted to chime in on this issue, (in lieu of staring a new thread :) )

 

In my opinion, to please the maximum amount of people I would have handled it like this

"Expansion" Price should be $29.99

NOW, if you have subbed, you will get a discount lets say $3 off the price for every month you have subbed. Now obviously if you have been here all year then you would get it for free, but lets say you have only subbed 6 months, that is $18 off so now it would cost you $11.99

From here you would have 2 choices, pay the balance OR use any Cartel coins you have to pay for the rest.

 

Additionally if you wanted to throw in a Pre Order scenario of 50% off the price would still be $15.99 and the same rules apply, only in this case if you had subbed for 6 mos you would then be getting it free but again if you had only subbed say 2 mos you would then have to pay $9.99 or use cartel coins for the balance.

 

Maybe throw in some goodies as well like mount, title, pet..etc but this is optional in my opinion

 

Either way you are rewarding people that have supported the game, so they feel appreciated, and possibly making a bit of cash on the new players that recently started playing and giving them a *CHOICE* on how to purchase the content cause lets face it, people get angry when they feel they are being forced to do something that is not fair, and in this case I can understand it.

 

Now this is just a hypothetical situation but the way I see if if you were here from the start you shouldn't really have to pay for the "expac" because well you made your investment by purchasing the boxed product at full retail or digital download and then subbed for a year (or however many months), but I understand they are desperate to make money, I can only hope that they stop shooting themselves in the foot and take advantage of the few opportunities they have left to turn this ship around.

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I think you should speak for yourself. I'm a subscriber and I'm not upset.

 

$10 is nothing, I paid for the game, I pay for a subscription every 6 months, I pay for a high speed internet connection, and I paid for a computer to mash it all toghether into something enjoyable... AND I can still afford $10 one time for more content than a years worth of updates... AND I'm very happy to pay it.

 

You people need to get some perspective. If they gave it to you for free and said "there you go, that's next year's content, see you next December" You'd be throwing a fit again. But as it is, you're going to still continue getting new free content all year an you get this for only $10. If you can't comprehend that this is not unreasonable I seriously question how you can even comprehend the task of playing the game.

 

I'm glad you took the time to read the thread, or even just the post just above yours before commenting...

 

As you can see, there are quite a few people who DO NOT share your point of view. Of course this game has its die hards and if BW said give me $100 tomorrow or we delete your toons, they would comply. But this game also now has a huge f2p community, lets call these people your healers and your tanks. And without this infusion of people who do not think this game is worth paying for, our servers go back to pre ftp levels of suck.

 

Keep that in mind.

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