Yesterday I finally did LI HM with one of my chars with a random group. It was probably tenth time i tried. That's why I found it necessary to post some thoughts about group finder.

 

I see three shortcomings of current group finder system:

 

1) There's no gear (or stat) check.

 

How many times have I joind group for LI HM just to see people in Tionese/Recruit gear or even using green lvl 45-50 items? Because of that a lot of time is wasted for finding replacement and whole group gets frustrated. How many times have I also been wiped, because someone was undergeared and couldn't understand, that gear he was given at lvl 50 is better than the one he dropped, for instance, on Corellia? I do understand that this system works in a way to allow everyone to join FPs, not hardcore gamers from PVE guilds, but people with gear below basic requirements shouldn't be able to use group finder for those specific FPs, just like people with lvl 35 can't join Kaon or False Emperor.

 

2) There's no skill check.

 

I can also begin with LI HM. Being wiped on LR5 or Lorrick is a very common thing for random groups. The same goes for Soa in EV, thrash mobs in KP or even in Kaon. I don't expect anyone to perfectly know OP or FP, although basic knowledge is necessary. Problem is that about 1/4 of groups have first timers (for OPs, with FPs it would be a smaller number), who are often source of all the wipes, frustration and rage quits. As I said, I don't demand anyone to know fight tactics. I think that people joining group through group finder for more challenging FPs or OPs should know what's going to happen, shouldn't be surprised.

 

3) There are almost no OPs to choose.

 

It would be just nice to be able to use group finder to join EC or TFB story mode or KP and EV hard mode, instead of looking for group on fleet for many hours.

 

 

Possible solutions:

 

Ad.1

 

I thiknk this should be quite easy to implement. I'd also go with stat check, which wouldn't disqualify those with mixed gear (for example with one last part of recruit gear) and wouldn't be easy to cheat (if we did a gear check using some number created from rating for example, someone could use a different high level gear, used for different spec, and after joining the group, change it to one below requirements).

 

Ad. 2

 

Recently I saw on this forum one suggestion to solve this problem – using codex entries. It's a neat idea, although I would suggest using the upcoming achievment system. Player would be allowed to join queue for specific FPs (only those more difficult, rest IMO should be allowed always for everyone) and OPs only after getting an achievment. For HM FPs it could be an achievment after completing SM version of FP, or even one you get after completing HM FP. The same for OPs – only players who completed OP on certain difficulty mode at least once, would be allowed to join queue for this OP (of adequate difficulty). Of course, at the beginning, queues would be empty, but on the other hand fleet would be full of people wanting to get this new achievment.

 

Also because achievment system is going to be legacy wide, it would allow players to join OP or FP with an alt, even if they did this OP or FP with their main char (however I'd think about three different achievments for each OP or FP – completing them as a DPS, tank and healer).

 

Btw. I don't think that nerfing LI HM, which is going to happen in 2.0, is a good solution. Even though I don't like atmosphere of this FP, I find it to be the best one due to challenging fights. So BW, please, don't nerf it! Make more FPs as difficult as this one!

 

Ad.3

 

I suppose that we don't see most of the OPs in group finder, because most of random groups wouldn't even go past first bosses. However, if gear/stat and skill check was implemented, probability of wipes would be greatly decreased and even random, not-so-well coordinated groups would succeed – people would generally know what to do and wouldn't be undergeared.

 

 

 

And what's your opinion?

Check the 2.0 patch notes up on the PTS ,

 

Lost Island is getting a nerf to bring it more in line with the Teir 1 hardmodes,

 

EC and TFB story modes are being added to the GF tool on story mode.

 

TFB being a level 55 ops on the GF tool, ec 51 to 54. plus they are getting better gear drops,

 

one a side note I am always wondering why everyone says skill check when truth is skill check would be a test of the player not a check of what gear the player has.. these are not linked together. I have seen plenty of smart dps in low level gear in other MMO easily out dps a better geared dps same spec and class, because they are more "skilled" and not being carried by others.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Mcadamsl

My opinion on (2) is that it's easily solved by a couple of steps.

 

Do not assume everyone has run your FP/OP Before: Remember, all of us have had to run an FP or OP for the first time at some point. Last week was my first time tanking Directive 7. I've still never run LI HM or any OP aside from EV. Simply put, if you don't begin from assuming everyone will know the FP, you can avoid problems.

--Corrolary: Do not assume, ever, that even if someone has done an FP before, that they've done a speed run of it before.

 

Check at the start: We have a chat interface. Spending a minute or two to ask two simple questions can save a group of lot of hassle. "Has everyone done this before?" and, "Speed or full run?"

 

Take a few minutes to plan at bosses: This is something the awesome PUG I had for EV did. We had a couple people who knew the Op really, really, really well, and a couple of us we n00bs. To be fair, we might have watched or read about them beforehand. The de facto Op leader took a few minutes before to ask before major fights, "Does everyone know this one?" Even a vet sometimes needed a refresher on mechanics.

 

Honestly, a lot of issues with things like that can be solved by patience, and importantly, not mocking your group members. Even if asking a couple questions of your group takes no more than 2 minutes, you can likely save yourself a lot of headache.

Check the 2.0 patch notes up on the PTS ,

 

Lost Island is getting a nerf to bring it more in line with the Teir 1 hardmodes,

 

EC and TFB story modes are being added to the GF tool on story mode.

 

TFB being a level 55 ops on the GF tool, ec 51 to 54. plus they are getting better gear drops,

 

I checked 2.0. notes. Still we won't get HM OPs and I think it would be cool to have this option.

 

one a side note I am always wondering why everyone says skill check when truth is skill check would be a test of the player not a check of what gear the player has.. these are not linked together. I have seen plenty of smart dps in low level gear in other MMO easily out dps a better geared dps same spec and class, because they are more "skilled" and not being carried by others.

 

I just named it "skill check", but maybe it's not very accurate. What I meant is that it would make random groups better, if a player knew the FP and wasn't surpised by its content. As for the gear checking - it would be nice to exclude extremes. Whilst I agree with what you wrote, I can't see someone in green lvl 50 gear doing LI HM, even if he's very skilled.

 

My opinion on (2) is that it's easily solved by a couple of steps.

 

Do not assume everyone has run your FP/OP Before: Remember, all of us have had to run an FP or OP for the first time at some point. Last week was my first time tanking Directive 7. I've still never run LI HM or any OP aside from EV. Simply put, if you don't begin from assuming everyone will know the FP, you can avoid problems.

--Corrolary: Do not assume, ever, that even if someone has done an FP before, that they've done a speed run of it before.

 

Check at the start: We have a chat interface. Spending a minute or two to ask two simple questions can save a group of lot of hassle. "Has everyone done this before?" and, "Speed or full run?"

 

Take a few minutes to plan at bosses: This is something the awesome PUG I had for EV did. We had a couple people who knew the Op really, really, really well, and a couple of us we n00bs. To be fair, we might have watched or read about them beforehand. The de facto Op leader took a few minutes before to ask before major fights, "Does everyone know this one?" Even a vet sometimes needed a refresher on mechanics.

 

Honestly, a lot of issues with things like that can be solved by patience, and importantly, not mocking your group members. Even if asking a couple questions of your group takes no more than 2 minutes, you can likely save yourself a lot of headache.

 

Oh, I'm very patient when it comes to people new to FP or OP and I'm very happy to explain everything to them. The problem is most of players are not and everything ends quickly with rage quits and calling everyone a noob. Doing FPs and OPs using GF is one of the main parts of endgame PVE farm in SWTOR. Now noone does full runs, noone will even ask about it. It is usually expected from players to know what to do and hence this frustration when someone's new and screws up. I agree with you, that nobody should assume that player knows FP or OP, but this will never happen. People always have expectations and when they aren't met...well, people get angry

I got to disagree with the adding hard mode Ops to the group finder: The reason being more Hardmodes TFB and EC require the not only a amount of skill and yes gear from everyone. that sometimes it is honestly just a matter too of knowing the group you are playing with, knowing how they will react and that wins some of the fights Krepiss in TFB being a big one on that. alot of pugs would never clear them still.

I've found that a competent healer can heal any group through Lost Island as long as they follow the mechanics. If they don't listen to mechanics, ignore list add and go about your day.