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My hat off to people who play dedicated tanks


LordSkyKnight

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As for guarding the healer, if they are too far from the tank, it is useless to do so, and you are better off guarding the higher dps.

 

This is also misinformation. The range referred to in the guard tool tip is ONLY FOR THE PVP DAMAGE REDIRECT NOT THE THREAT REDUCTION OR DAMAGE REDUCTION.

 

The simple act of having the buff on you will grant you the threat and damage reduction bonuses, regardless of your distance from the tank.

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Sorry, too late. I already have the Warstalker title and was 2nd in the world to clear EC NiM with my raid.

 

For proof of my claims, check out my youtube channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrGryph78/videos?view=0&flow=grid

 

With that said, I'm quite confident in my assertion that I'd not want to go anywhere near your mediocre guild.

 

Sydexlic you may have experience and knowledge to help others become better but your arrogance and delivery just chases people away.

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I now have an sith Jugg, its the first time I ever tanked.... I love it! My first alt was a Jedi Sentinal (solo play) and I also enjoyed that, but tanking with my wife as a healer really made being a tank worth it. We can do every single Heroic 2+ and many of the Heroic 4's as a tank/healer combo, while they are still green, and can do heroic 2+'s yello or orange every time....

She is playing solo as a Consular healer now while I am at work and once she is close to lvl 50, ill pair her up with my Sentinal, but in all honesty, I wish I had did a guardian now....

 

As a jugg, with her healing me, we really have a great 1-2 punch. When a Boss is super hard, like at the end of a Heroic 4, we also use our healing companions and Ill tank like there is no tomorrow until we beat it....

 

so, with me tanking and 3 healers going makes for a long battle, but in many casses, we can win, maybe die 1 or 2 times until we get a stragety that will work on that boss and then beat it.... even if I have to run in circles until she can heal me again (rebuild her willpower), then go back in and tank. I was always a DPS mele kind of guy, now I rahter tank. then again, its because I have a dedicated healer.... that helps being a tank or I may have just stayed DPS, which I feel works better for solo play.

Edited by Themanthatisi
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I think you're forgetting that there are 3 tanks. Also, all three tanks are viable at endgame, Juggs/Guardians will likely just have a harder time of it.

 

I was once put in a group (gf gave me false emp HM) on my Tankasin and the healer patronisingly informed everyone that we likely wouldn't finish as we didn't have a "proper tank".

 

When we arrived unscathed @ Malgus I said I was on strike until I got an apology ;)

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THIS is why you ALWAYS guard the DPS and NOT the healer.

 

The theory/mechanics you've given is 100% correct - BUT

 

for an average PUG tank, I've pulled agg on my sage healer and my gunslinger both. If it's my slinger, I can dump agg and stop attacking for a few seconds. If it's my healer, I can still dump agg, but I bet I can't stop healing.

 

For a quality tank, I'd rather see guard on the DPS. For a mediocre tank, I'd rather see it on the healer - of course, how one tells the difference, that's a question in itself.

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I gave up tanking in this game. In fact I deleted my original Juggernaut in a bit of a rage quit. I am re-leveling him now but I simple don't do Flashpoints. I'll wait until 50 then join a guild. Pugging in this game as a tank is an excercise in patience.

 

^ I also respeced and never looked back. Tired of running around like mad trying to pick up mobs because the DPS decides they should be pulling.

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On guarding from a healer's perspective... Even in PUGs, the only time I'm usually pulling aggro is when the DPS aren't going for the weaker mobs first, and a guard won't affect that aggro pull whatsoever. The first heal I do, I'll have more aggro than the sum of zero from those DPS. At least guarding one of the dps will mitigate the amount of healing I have to do while fending things off.

 

I've definitely developed a healthier perception of tanks after leveling my own though - while I've always waited for tank cues to jump into combat, just the amount of situational awareness needed has mproved my play on my other characters - I'm more likely to notice the healer getting hit now than before, at least.

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You're welcome.

 

I currently have two level 50 tanks and on at level 37. I also have two level 50 healers and a Level 50 DPS.

 

Leveling as a tank is really easy and fairly fast as long as you use modable gear and use a mix of tank and DPS mods. And also use modable gear on your companion of choice, I use my healer companion most of the time. I if I feel that things aren't dying fast enough I just put him/her in their DPS stance and things die a little faster. I also have all six of the crafting professions maxed out on various toons so getting the lastest mods, enhancements, barrels, or armoring isn't an issue. I also choose the current planet's commendation option for rewards from quests to help gear up when I leave a planet. As long as you swap out all your mods with the lastest ones when you leave a planet you will be well geared for the next one. Tha's how I was able to complete the class quests for my Guardian on Hoth at level 37. And yes, I did it solo because this was my first Republic toon at the time.

 

When it comes to PUGing Flashpoints as a Tank I have a simple philosophy. I get aggro on the big stuff and keep the healer alive. DPS need to know that in this game their job is to kill the weaker mobs first while the tank holds the big stuff at bay. I will do my best to get aggro on everything in a trash pull but once I make my initial sweep through the trash I focus on the big stuff. I keep an I on the healer to make sure he can keep up but oonce I know he can I will pretty much chain pull all the way through. If the healer is having trouble I will slow down. I pretty much ignore the DPS for the most part unless they are just being stupid. And of course, "If you spank it, you tank it."

 

When I go in as a healer I will start off the first few trash pulls just healing to see how the group does and then I will start throwing in some DPS if the DPS know how to avoid unnecessary damage just so we can get through a little faster. Besides I see my DPS as healing as well. The faster things die the less damage they do to the party so the less healing they need. And most of my DPS as a Merc/Commando healer has knockdown or stun effects as well. Mobs can't damage the party when they are laying on the ground. Of course it helps that all my 50's are Black Hole or better geared.

 

Some helpful tips for DPS in PUG's:

 

1. Don't use knockback abilities when standing next to the tank, we don't like it.

2. Do use knockback abilities to knock mobs away from the healer and preferrably toward the tank.

3. Kill weaker mobs first. It reduces incoming damage which makes the healer happy.

4. Don't run in front of the tank unless you want to tank.

5. And avoid unnecessary damage (i.e. Don't stand in bad stuff and don't stand in front of the boss)

 

PUGing can be fun. I do it all the time for BH comms so I can gear my alts when they hit 50. And I also enjoy teaching new players how to do some of the harder fights (HM LI) as long as they can learn from their mistakes.

 

Good luck everyone and I'll see you in-game on The Shadowlands server.

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I like my Guardian Tank, but people are so annoying when joining random groups. I can tell stories but I will just say instead that I keep my ignore button at the ready.

Since I have recently dusted off my mostly Black Hole/Rakata tank, let me say that people are still annoying:

 

1. Jumping in before me and not kiling the weaks. I like to let them come close to dying but this does kind of annoy the healer. Normally when I am healing, if someone does this and the tank lets them take the aggro; I have no problem not healing the player just to help the tank get his point across.

 

2. Constantly complaining when we are not going to die at all because most of the people in the FP are overgeared for HM FP. If you want to run the FP a certain way, you have the option of a guild run.

 

I rarely get a group of proffesionals who shut up and do their jobs, I love you guys that do.

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Good to see sombody that apreciates the job we tanks do, i actually enjoy playing as tank a lot myself, sure there are some frustrating moments when people have no freaking idea of what to do and decide to ignore all ur indications.

 

The worse part i would say, is that DPS love blaming the tanks for everything, being a DPS is the easiest thing on this game, at least tanks and Helaers require u to focus and know ur stuff, not just smash bottons randombly.... so for all those DPS out there that spend all their time complaining GO FREAKING ROLL A TANK URSELF AND CUT THE CRAP!

Edited by YeIIow
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And also a little off topic has anyone else had a healer deciding they fancy getting stuck into the fight and being a have a go hero rather than healing their tank? I have had this 2 or 3 times over the last few days and has to be one of the most annoying things I have had. Wouldn't listen and just stick to healing, wanted to pull my hair out.

 

Lusidious covered this a couple of posts up but to reiterate, if I am healing in a well-geared group that doesn't need a lot of healing attention, then darn right I will add to the dps or CC to make the fight a little faster. On my Operative, the Shiv attack (melee damage) also triggers my Tactical Advantage which is needed in order to burst heal, regen energy AND increase healing output. So yes, I may be stuck into the fight as long as it is safe to do so as it makes for more efficient healing.

 

This is not a game where the healers stand back (or sit down a la L2) and throw an odd heal up now and again. If a healer isn't constantly working in one way or another then they are slacking.

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So many people do not understand the fundamental basics of threat in this game that it is a wonder tanks are given a hard time over holding aggro.

 

As for guarding the healer, if they are too far from the tank, it is useless to do so, and you are better off guarding the higher dps.

 

In short, learn the mechanics of the game, all classes and roles, to better handle the situations. If you don't, then it's a good deal that you are in error.

 

Take some of your own advice here as you are incorrect about how the Guard function works.

 

So far this thread has been full of some great info side by side with people that are just flat out wrong.

 

Unfort. for the new or casual player it will be difficult to tell which is which.

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I've encountered similar frustration playing a healing sage. I've had dps claim that we wiped because I wasn't healing them when I died because I was swamped with adds. People just often immediately cast blame at the healer or tank when it was actually their mistakes that caused the wipe.
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My hat off to people who play dedicated tanks...So to all you people who play tanks, thank you and I know exactly how you feel and why some of you give up to go play dps classes instead.

 

Thanks and to you too for doing so too. When I started my Jug, I designed him to be nothing but a pure tank. I filled out the Immortal tree with some points in the other trees after reach 50. I've not looked back. When I needed DPS I ran with Jaesa and do so now all the time. Put guard on her, I keep the mobs busy and she burns them down for me. When my guild mates Ops/FPs I tank all the time. Even when I PuG PvP, I put my guard on the healer and stay close them while spamming my taunts as often as necessary and become an aggro sponge. If I can keep 4 or 5 on me in PvP I'm doing my job as a Tank. It's not about damage as a tank as it is protecting the team. I accepted that fact long ago when I first started tanking in CoH/CoV. I love tanking regardless of how awful others think it is. It's the challenge tanking offers that I really enjoy.

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Having usually played DPS roles (even on my 'healers) I decided myself to switch to a Tank class and build so I rolled a Vanguard. I was in an easy heroic and the sent kept leaping into the fight before I had grabbed full agro from all the mobs of the groups. I repeatedly told him to WAIT until all the mobs were on me and I had triggered my very visible explosive type AOE to let the group know they could attack now.

 

Never listened and then complained that I was a bad tank because he kept getting agro, when he would leap in before I HAD agro. Yeah. I ejected him. As a Vanguard I have lots of agro gaining tools. There is no excuse for a group member not to wait until I signal the attack when I have CLEARLY stated what that signal was. So OP, I feel your pain. Running a pure Tank class has made me a significantly better DPS player on my other characters because I know now what to look out for and when to throttle back my attacks so the Tank can maintain agro.

 

The only time I ignore that advice is if a mob has pealed off and goes after the healer, and then I'll do everything I can to change it's agro focus.

Edited by Saitada
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Having usually played DPS roles (even on my 'healers) I decided myself to switch to a Tank class and build so I rolled a Vanguard. I was in an easy heroic and the sent kept leaping into the fight before I had grabbed full agro from all the mobs of the groups. I repeatedly told him to WAIT until all the mobs were on me and I had triggered my very visible explosive type AOE to let the group know they could attack now.

 

Never listened and then complained that I was a bad tank because he kept getting agro, when he would leap in before I HAD agro. Yeah. I ejected him. As a Vanguard I have lots of agro gaining tools. There is no excuse for a group member not to wait until I signal the attack when I have CLEARLY stated what that signal was. So OP, I feel your pain. Running a pure Tank class has made me a significantly better DPS player on my other characters because I know now what to look out for and when to throttle back my attacks so the Tank can maintain agro.

 

The only time I ignore that advice is if a mob has pealed off and goes after the healer, and then I'll do everything I can to change it's agro focus.

 

I prefer to think that common group etiquette is well known, but Its the context of the situation that is more important. An overgeared group has no need for a tank in a HM flashpoint, and it is often just easier to let the dps burn everything down, and the healer heal as needed.

 

Nobody should be having a go at a tank not holding agro in a hardmode flashpoint with everyone burning through in 61's. If a healer in 61's can't keep up dps in a boarding party, thats the healers problem, not the tanks or dps.

 

These conflicts seem to be focused around the group finder, where you have overgeared players blended with players in gear that the content is balanced for. In a situation where either the healer or the dps are in tionese, then the pace of the flashpoint should be set to accomodate them.

Edited by Marb
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I prefer to think that common group etiquette is well known, but Its the context of the situation that is more important. An overgeared group has no need for a tank in a HM flashpoint, and it is often just easier to let the dps burn everything down, and the healer heal as needed.

 

Nobody should be having a go at a tank not holding agro in a hardmode flashpoint with everyone burning through in 61's. If a healer in 61's can't keep up dps in a boarding party, thats the healers problem, not the tanks or dps.

 

These conflicts seem to be focused around the group finder, where you have overgeared players blended with players in gear that the content is balanced for. In a situation where either the healer or the dps are in tionese, then the pace of the flashpoint should be set to accomodate them.

 

The heroic in question was on Taris. Not high level over geared players. When I group on my 50 I rarely run into situations where we can't burn everything down before it becomes a problem though, but my Commando is dps spec BH geared. My Vanguard is Tank, lower level and geared in blue armorings and mods for her level.

Edited by Saitada
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Lusidious covered this a couple of posts up but to reiterate, if I am healing in a well-geared group that doesn't need a lot of healing attention, then darn right I will add to the dps or CC to make the fight a little faster. On my Operative, the Shiv attack (melee damage) also triggers my Tactical Advantage which is needed in order to burst heal, regen energy AND increase healing output. So yes, I may be stuck into the fight as long as it is safe to do so as it makes for more efficient healing.

 

This is not a game where the healers stand back (or sit down a la L2) and throw an odd heal up now and again. If a healer isn't constantly working in one way or another then they are slacking.

 

Yeah, if the tank has good aggro and has a lot of health, I throw in a sabotage charge every once in awhile with my scoundrel if I have some energy. Or if it's not going too bad, I've run behind a target and hit it with a back shot or sometimes a dirty kick. Then trigger that silly surrender thing if needed.

 

Though in one heroic PUG, we didn't have a tank, just my scoundrel, a commando and two sages. Heal-o-rama, plus using the force lift and tranq to keep some enemies occupied. I ended up doing more healing since they had that annoying gas grenade that drives you out of cover, though I was still throwing some attacks in.

 

:D

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I had a commando and a shadow that kept using their punt skill to knock mobs away from me which in turn made it difficult to retain threat.

If you're playing with a PUG and this kind of stuff is happening, then the best way to teach them a lesson is don't try to get the threat back. Let the DPS'er deal with all the threat they are drawing and they'll be more apt to listen to instructions after they wipe.

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My main character is a Vanguard tank. I always appreciate a good team effort. I am very self conscious, so I am always making sure I am doing the best tanking job I can. That being said, I don't think my job is special or anything. While I enjoy tanking (which seems rare), I appreciate the other roles in a group. Good healers and good DPS are also very important. Nothing is better than a group where everybody knows their roles well. I'm just now learning to play a healer and DPS character. It helps me appreciate their roles all the more.
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I play a Guardian tank and I've got to agree. Some people think they're invincible as a DPS or that as a tank you have complete control over what mobs do, even after being told otherwise.

 

It's good to get some appreciation. Getting yelled at because I didn't hold the mobs someone pushed away from me and started taunting doesn't do much for me. I do love tanking, that's why I keep at it.

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If you're playing with a PUG and this kind of stuff is happening, then the best way to teach them a lesson is don't try to get the threat back. Let the DPS'er deal with all the threat they are drawing and they'll be more apt to listen to instructions after they wipe.

 

Or better yet if they continue to do it, leave the group and get another. I have to admit in all my time tanking I have never run across this, yes I know I'm lucky lol.

Closes I have been to something like this, was strangely enough a shadow tank. Who repeatedly used knock back on every pull, I can only guess he thought it was his AoE.

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I honestly have no idea why so many people have had such bad tanking experiences. I PUG tanked a lot of flashpoints in both leveling and endgame, and I think it went really well. It was the first time I'd tanked in a game... I wasn't a guru, I just read advice on tanking, marked targets, and made sure people were on the same page.

 

People in the group knew what they were doing for the most part, and they were respectful of me. When someone DID break CC, we usually always still cleared. I kept aggro off healer, healer healed with a little more intensity... not a big deal. Flashpoints are designed with wiggle room in mind. (In fact, you really don't even NEED a tank for most encounters, even with HM's...)

 

People didn't automatically blame me if we wiped. Usually someone just said "my bad" and we lol'd. And if I screwed up, I called myself out on it too. I only remember ONE drama incident when I got blamed, and it actually ended up being (half) my fault, so it didn't upset me.

 

Granted, this was before F2P... is that where you guys are picking up all these supposed drama king/queens? Was I just extremely lucky? :rak_02:

Edited by Stenrik
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