Marauders and Sentinals are Preditorial in nature but they lack very basic skills that they should have for pvp. They are they only classes in the game without some way to get a stun either base skill or turn a skill into a stun with specing, force chock is not a full stun since you can be knocked out of it. They are also the only 2 classes without some kind of knockdown or knockback again either base skill or specing. This is a rather huge oversite and needs to be changed.

Other things these classe need is either more ranged attacks, 10m is NOT ranged its extended melee. To be considered ranged is should be at least 15m if not 20m. The other possibilty is to give these classes more ways to break or become immune to being rooted and slowed. Not sure how bioware figures that melee can compete with ranged that can spec to have their knockback root or snare, 1 cc breaker and force charge can't be used if you are rooted, is not enough.

All this would make more sense if sentinels/marauders weren't already so powerful in pvp.

Next to the incredibly OP scoundrel/operative, they are easily the second best class in the game. I mean, if you spec watchman, you have two cooldowns that basically make you invulnerable.

Add in that sentinels are probably the best dps in the game (barring the burst damage of the previously mentioned OP scoundrels/operatives), and I can't understand what you are complaining about.

All this would make more sense if sentinels/marauders weren't already so powerful in pvp.

 

Next to the incredibly OP scoundrel/operative, they are easily the second best class in the game. I mean, if you spec watchman, you have two cooldowns that basically make you invulnerable.

 

Add in that sentinels are probably the best dps in the game (barring the burst damage of the previously mentioned OP scoundrels/operatives), and I can't understand what you are complaining about.

Yeah, I totally agree with this post. Marauder/sents are already ****** enough. Giving them stuns and knockbacks would put them way over the top.

You know why I have to pop Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain (-20% damage), Force Camo, Undying Rage (at 20-30% hp) to be able to win a 1v1?

Because sorc and BH opens up with snare from 30m, spams attacks that hit similar as my melee hits, knockback when I'm there, stun me when I'm there again, bubble up, and STILL didn't use any longer then 1 min cd.

Even my 10 meter range skill needs rage that a marauder/sentinel can only get when he is in melee.

So I'm OP, because I had to use up ALL of my defensive cooldowns for 1 fight, where the BH is still pressing Tracer Missile-Tracer Missile and hits what 2.3k?

Problem is this: melee has only 1 way to deal damage, at 4 meter range. Ranged cringes at the thought of being in melee range, so he wants to do everything to get out of it, and cryes, when melee asks for tools to get into said 4m range.

Currently number of tools for ccing melee >> tools for gap closing, staying in range.

Marauders and Sentinals are Preditorial in nature but they lack very basic skills that they should have for pvp. They are they only classes in the game without some way to get a stun either base skill or turn a skill into a stun with specing, force chock is not a full stun since you can be knocked out of it. They are also the only 2 classes without some kind of knockdown or knockback again either base skill or specing. This is a rather huge oversite and needs to be changed.

 

Other things these classe need is either more ranged attacks, 10m is NOT ranged its extended melee. To be considered ranged is should be at least 15m if not 20m. The other possibilty is to give these classes more ways to break or become immune to being rooted and slowed. Not sure how bioware figures that melee can compete with ranged that can spec to have their knockback root or snare, 1 cc breaker and force charge can't be used if you are rooted, is not enough.

You have charge...so does that mean every other class should have that too?

You have charge...so does that mean every other class should have that too?

Powertechs/Vanguards are a ranged class yet they have more ways to close a gap then the MELEE classes

Powertechs/Vanguards are a ranged class yet they have more ways to close a gap then the MELEE classes

they are tanks....lol

If you're going to try an argue something...at least bring up something worth to argue about

Marauders tend to be a bit underpowered compared to the channel and charge spam of certain classes at the end game. Their utility in a fight is also still kind of lacking.

Speaking as someone who's played one to fifty, I have to say that I have a much easier time playing certain other classes like Powertechs, and being successful at DPS and other meta-roles, then I do a Marauder, which requires many bars of skills slotted and easily activatable in order to be competitive.

Nevermind a much greater awareness of nearby fights in order to not be useless, since our two big things are a periodic few second long buff we give to people who are actually in our group (Doesn't seem to count the entire team. Just people we've invited beforehand.), and our ability to DPS while intermittently applying an attack that reduces incoming healing by 20 percent.

This is coming from someone who regularly does very good DPS, too. However, that DPS is coming at least partially from the fact that i'm over-geared in PVP gear compared to many players, and I typically run with a team that knows to compensate for the huge flaws this class tends to have in the sustainability department.

Also, watchman/annihilation is pretty weak in terms of DPS and utility compared to carnage/the other mirror. Watchman just requires less skill to play in terms of advanced game mechanics, and is much more approachable as a result.

Carnage tends to be really crazy in terms of requiring you to never make a mistake, and having almost literally every skill we get slotted, outside of core stuff for other trees like Rupture. However, it's also by far the best tree out of the bunch when it comes to DPSing if you can figure out how to play it properly. It also requires a proper understanding of the stats system to get the most out of it, since it's very multi-attack heavy.

Rage is just flat out broken in terms of putting out reliable DPS from encounter to encounter. Prior to 40, it's also incredibly useless. Once you are 40, it becomes very situational in its usefulness, ranging from "amazingly good" to "absolutely worthless".

The core DPS mechanic of the class is building up about 4 ticks of one buff, and 2 buffs all in all from skills, so you can use a smash that will automatically crit for insane damage. Problem is, you don't get a reliable way to trigger this until 40 due to one of the core skills being in the tree at that tier. Furthermore, one of the core methods of DPSing is easily interruptible, and is a channel. Adding onto that, smash itself is very hit or miss in terms of usage. If a large number of players or mobs aren't nearby, you're not really getting the bang for the buck out if that you should, given the huge charge-up time for the 5 buffs you need.

I figure i'll get flamed for pointing this out, but it really does need to be said.

Slight edit: The complaint that we can "leap and pin you" constantly is fallacious. A marauder has two roots. One is leap. Which lasts only for maybe 3 few seconds, which, combined with the travel time to the target means we get like one second of time to attack you before you can start running again. The other is ravage. Which requires you to talent heavily into carnage to unlock it, and also seems to remove the ability to stun standard tier mobs when using it too. It is also a channel, which means you can just smack us and remove it. Also, we can't actually do anything to you other then use ravage on you while we're rooting you with it.

Choke is a channel, and as a result, isn't really that useful outside of a delaying tactic or an impromptu interrupt. It's mostly a gimmick skill for rage's core tree mechanic, with some uses in stopping enemy channels that are a threat.

Our slow requires us to be in melee range to apply. Which means if we're using it, we're probably already focused on trying to kill you, instead of applying a slow, which we would preferably need before we can use our main attacks.

Compare this to other classes. Which have numerous ways of CCing people down at range, stunning them, or otherwise making their lives miserable. Marauders, instead, get things like Obfuscate, which lowers accuracy for a few seconds, or a number of abilities that are defensive based, and are on fairly long cooldowns.

The idea of the class seems to be a glass cannon centered around actively applying buffs to yourself to stay alive. However, this concept is also kind of new from what I recall. Most of the utility was only added in towards the end of beta due to the (very valid) complaints that the class was underpowered, and probably could do with a bit of tweaking to make it more effective.

Powertechs/Vanguards are a ranged class yet they have more ways to close a gap then the MELEE classes

Play a vanguard. You have to stay within melee range for your heavy attack to hit. You do have ranged abilities, but without stockstrike, you're not going to win a 1 vs 1 ranged engagement against anyone who knows their stuff.

I also play a watchman sentinel and have no problems, 1 vs 1, against any other class. I laugh at Mercs who attempt tracer missile spam. Apply burns, stasis. Pacify. The only thing about the average sent is the amount of keys and the CDs to keep track of. The window for Merciless Slash / Merciless is a little annoying, but we get a 10m finisher.

A marauder with a stun would make me quit the game. its bad enough they're constantly leaping you, pinning you, interrupting you, and tearing chunks off

Not sure if serious. We have one charge on a 15 sec CD max 30m range 10m min range (obliterate is not a charge), one interrupt (that practically every other class has?) and two pins, both requiring to be speced for, both only in one tree, one requiring a channel and the other only with max 10m range.

All this would make more sense if sentinels/marauders weren't already so powerful in pvp.

 

Next to the incredibly OP scoundrel/operative, they are easily the second best class in the game. I mean, if you spec watchman, you have two cooldowns that basically make you invulnerable.

 

Add in that sentinels are probably the best dps in the game (barring the burst damage of the previously mentioned OP scoundrels/operatives), and I can't understand what you are complaining about.

This. I fought good maras and they are not only hard to kill, they kick *** and chew healers unlike any other class.

All this would make more sense if sentinels/marauders weren't already so powerful in pvp.

 

Next to the incredibly OP scoundrel/operative, they are easily the second best class in the game. I mean, if you spec watchman, you have two cooldowns that basically make you invulnerable.

 

Add in that sentinels are probably the best dps in the game (barring the burst damage of the previously mentioned OP scoundrels/operatives), and I can't understand what you are complaining about.

your obviously a sorc

I would be ok with NOT having a stun or knockback/knockdown if we are giving a root/snare breaking ability that lasts say 15 to 20 seconds on a 45 second to 1 minute cd, and another 20+ ranged attack or a way to insta refresh our charge.

Lets be clear here, never said maras or sents were bad at dps but in terms of pvp they need a few tools to be on par with every other class in the game.

You know why I have to pop Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain (-20% damage), Force Camo, Undying Rage (at 20-30% hp) to be able to win a 1v1?

 

Because sorc and BH opens up with snare from 30m, spams attacks that hit similar as my melee hits, knockback when I'm there, stun me when I'm there again, bubble up, and STILL didn't use any longer then 1 min cd.

 

Even my 10 meter range skill needs rage that a marauder/sentinel can only get when he is in melee.

 

So I'm OP, because I had to use up ALL of my defensive cooldowns for 1 fight, where the BH is still pressing Tracer Missile-Tracer Missile and hits what 2.3k?

 

 

Problem is this: melee has only 1 way to deal damage, at 4 meter range. Ranged cringes at the thought of being in melee range, so he wants to do everything to get out of it, and cryes, when melee asks for tools to get into said 4m range.

 

Currently number of tools for ccing melee >> tools for gap closing, staying in range.

Good thing for you most fights don't start at 30m.

Not sure if serious. We have one charge on a 15 sec CD max 30m range 10m min range (obliterate is not a charge), one interrupt (that practically every other class has?) and two pins, both requiring to be speced for, both only in one tree, one requiring a channel and the other only with max 10m range.

Look at the CD on your interrupt, and now compare it to everyone else's. Notice anything different?

I would be ok with NOT having a stun or knockback/knockdown if we are giving a root/snare breaking ability that lasts say 15 to 20 seconds on a 45 second to 1 minute cd, and another 20+ ranged attack or a way to insta refresh our charge.

 

Lets be clear here, never said maras or sents were bad at dps but in terms of pvp they need a few tools to be on par with every other class in the game.

This is a clear L2P issue. That class is deadly in skilled hands and brings unique utility to PvP. If you can't play it, it's you not the class.

It would seem that the detractors of asking for a few more utility tools for PVP have nothing contructive to say. Can not state why the class should not get any kind of a buff other then the L2P line or say "you suck" if you can't win in PVP.

So I will ask you L2P trolls and the "you suck" trolls to tell me how its balanced that a Mara should have to blow pretty much all its CD's in order to beat a ranged class, were as a ranged class uses maybe 2 CD's to beat a Mara.

Marauder is the hardest class to play right in the game. It actually has the tools you need, they're just not easy to learn.

You HAVE to use EVERY SINGLE ONE of your abilities. If you ignore any of them, you're not playing to the marauder's full potential. (I have bottom, left, and right action bars mapped to keybinds).

And you have to really pay attention to your spec, what your talents give you. Each tree has some tricks in it, and each one plays differently.

Also, the marauder gets a ton better the higher level you get and the better gear you get. Some of our best abilities we don't learn until 40+. So if you're not yet 50, don't judge the pvp abilities of the mara too harshly.

That said, we are definitely the hardest class in the game to play, and ability delay messes up our combat effectiveness more than any other class. But hopefully the incoming fixes will improve that.

Marauder is the hardest class to play right in the game. It actually has the tools you need, they're just not easy to learn.

 

You HAVE to use EVERY SINGLE ONE of your abilities. If you ignore any of them, you're not playing to the marauder's full potential. (I have bottom, left, and right action bars mapped to keybinds).

 

And you have to really pay attention to your spec, what your talents give you. Each tree has some tricks in it, and each one plays differently.

 

Also, the marauder gets a ton better the higher level you get and the better gear you get. Some of our best abilities we don't learn until 40+. So if you're not yet 50, don't judge the pvp abilities of the mara too harshly.

 

That said, we are definitely the hardest class in the game to play, and ability delay messes up our combat effectiveness more than any other class. But hopefully the incoming fixes will improve that.

Aside of how fun playing piano-like class is, it's bad design when one class has to utilize every single skill it has to maintain performance which is ON PAR with other classes. If doing virtuoso actually resulted in way better results than others, I guess I could call it fine but right now we have to click 3x as often and as fast as your average sorc or bh to even be able to stand up to them. Not to mention being melee and thus being shafted even more by things like delay etc which are somewhat negated by ranged classes who can confortably stand on high ground and spam tracer.

Like I said, it's fun but in the long it's also frustrating that effort:results ratio is so bad.

Bad design. Fun but bad.

Marauder is the hardest class to play right in the game. It actually has the tools you need, they're just not easy to learn.

 

You HAVE to use EVERY SINGLE ONE of your abilities. If you ignore any of them, you're not playing to the marauder's full potential. (I have bottom, left, and right action bars mapped to keybinds).

 

And you have to really pay attention to your spec, what your talents give you. Each tree has some tricks in it, and each one plays differently.

 

Also, the marauder gets a ton better the higher level you get and the better gear you get. Some of our best abilities we don't learn until 40+. So if you're not yet 50, don't judge the pvp abilities of the mara too harshly.

 

That said, we are definitely the hardest class in the game to play, and ability delay messes up our combat effectiveness more than any other class. But hopefully the incoming fixes will improve that.

This is one of the better and truthful posts that I've seen. I'm currently leveling a Powertech aside from my main Marauder. I laugh with my buddy who's a BH and it really opened my eyes to how easy the game can be. Here I am, all I know is Marauder and doing alright in PvP (usually top 3 Damage, but I die alot due to trying to keep healers busy... their buddies don't like that).

Anyway, just wanted to drop a line and say I support what you said 100%. Specs are really just playstyle differences, but regardless you do have to use ALL of your keys (almost literally). It's extremely rewarding though because of the high skill cap.

Now I'm not bashing you other classes, power to you guys. However, Mara/Sent are made to rip through your Sage/Sorc and Merc/Gun. It's what we're made to do. If I see a Guardian or powertech, I don't run away, but I'm not eager to go and fight.

*shrug* take it for what it's worth s'all.

Slight edit: The complaint that we can "leap and pin you" constantly is fallacious. A marauder has two roots. One is leap. Which lasts only for maybe 3 few seconds, which, combined with the travel time to the target means we get like one second of time to attack you before you can start running again. The other is ravage. Which requires you to talent heavily into carnage to unlock it, and also seems to remove the ability to stun standard tier mobs when using it too. It is also a channel, which means you can just smack us and remove it. Also, we can't actually do anything to you other then use ravage on you while we're rooting you with it.

I had somebody in my guild complain that force leap was OP, and I was like, there's no way. 2 seconds of immobility?

Then I realized why he didn't like it.

Juggernauts get a talent that turns it into a stun instead of just immobilization.

Yeah. But not marauders.