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Kaggath Series: Grievous vs Malgus


Beniboybling

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“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

 

Round 1: General Grievous vs Darth Malgus

 

Welcome to the first edition to the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ in which I’ll be pitting the power bases of iconic Star Wars characters against each other.

 

For all those of you aren't aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, bases or ships in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere, a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

But before we begin, let’s set out some ground rules:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets that are not their own. In this case, this all excludes other prominent powers/allies of the era, e.g. Darth Serevin, Asajj Ventress.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No superweapons, e.g. the Malevolence, the Foundry.
  • Technology level is universal: blaster fire, armoring, lightsaber power etc. is all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size and quantity.
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument, they are non-existent.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.

 

So, the combatants: both General Grievous and Darth Malgus where brilliant strategists and skilled combatants. Grievous is a master escapist and Malgus a persevering juggernaut.

 

Malgus has command over his splinter Sith Empire and Grievous had command of the Separatist Droid Armies. In many ways they are equally matched but who will win?

 

P.S If you have any suggestions for future threads, post below.

 

Let the Kaggath begin!

 

Victor: Darth Malgus

Edited by Beniboybling
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I'm a tad biased towards the General, but based on power base, I do think he would win.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CIS_Armed_Forces

 

Being Supreme Commander of the CIS military, along with the troops of its allies, makes General Grievous a force to reckon with. Based on the article above, during the clone wars the droid army outnumbered Republic soldiers 100 to 1. Malgus and his New Empire (I'm assuming) have less of a military than the countless clones that were produced. Grievous should have the advantage in numbers, to be sure.

 

One thing that is probably needed to be said is that the CIS navy wasn't very powerful. Not many capital ships, and they seemed to have some glaring weaknesses. So I would give Grievous the upper hand on the ground, but Malgus in space.

 

Obviously a large issue is WHAT makes up their two armies. Malgus has Sith, so that could prove a major threat. Obviously Jedi have been killed by the Droid Army before, but with thousands of Sith running around... it could be an issue. That being said, the diversity and technology shown by the Droid Army is full of surprises and nasty little tricks that could easily throw the Sith off-guard.

 

Also, although Malgus made allies with aliens and other groups, Grievous's power base consists of the entire Separatist movement.

 

I'm going to give it to Grevious, for his endless army that would far outnumber (and therefor out-gun) Malgus's.

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Obviously a large issue is WHAT makes up their two armies. Malgus has Sith, so that could prove a major threat. Obviously Jedi have been killed by the Droid Army before, but with thousands of Sith running around... it could be an issue. That being said, the diversity and technology shown by the Droid Army is full of surprises and nasty little tricks that could easily throw the Sith off-guard.

 

Also, although Malgus made allies with aliens and other groups, Grievous's power base consists of the entire Separatist movement.

 

I'm going to give it to Grevious, for his endless army that would far outnumber (and therefor out-gun) Malgus's.

 

I dont remember their being thousands of actual sith with lightsabers backing Malgus...

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Grievous would most likely win. The seperatist armies were incredibly expansive, numbering in the trillions I think, that could easily overwhelm Malgus' forces. Sure, Malgus has Sith, but we saw roughly ten percent of the Jedi sent to Geonosis survive the battle. Many of the survivors were Jedi Masters, so the Sith at Malgus' command would have to be extremely powerful.

 

Grievous wins the war, but Malgus could win in the Lightsaber duel. But what is the point of winning the Lightsaber duel when your armies have been wiped out by your opponents armies?

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Is it Malgus' powerbase at it's height in FE? then easily Malgus, sorry but Greivous and the CIS might have been powerful, but they wouldn't be strong enough to take everything in Malgus' arsenal.

 

Oh no Foundry? then Malgus' forces don't stand a chance and this topic has no point, as it's a landslide CIS victory.

Edited by Rayla_Felana
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Is it Malgus' powerbase at it's height in FE? then easily Malgus, sorry but Greivous and the CIS might have been powerful, but they wouldn't be strong enough to take everything in Malgus' arsenal.

Arrrrrgghh! Star Wars jargon! What is FE? :D

 

As a response to what everyone has said, I agree that Grievous's forces greatly outnumber Malgus's, but I wouldn't dismiss Malgus entirely. Malgus's fleet is largely superior is Grievous' in terms of size, firepower etc.

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Arrrrrgghh! Star Wars jargon! What is FE? :D

 

As a response to what everyone has said, I agree that Grievous's forces greatly outnumber Malgus's, but I wouldn't dismiss Malgus entirely. Malgus's fleet is largely superior is Grievous' in terms of size, firepower etc.

 

FE=False Emperor (Flashpoint)

 

And I forgot about all the little things Malgus has with him there.

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I have to say if it where just Grievous vs. Malgus mano e mano... My credits are on Malgus, Obi wan made swift work of him and I feel Malgus's offensive darkside/sith abilities would definatly give him the edge, as Grievous has no such abilities or affinity with the Force with which to defend himself.

 

If we take armies into account I think it'd be a close fight, and am going to go with Malgus as the victor, as I would like to think the human element would win out over a droid army and ofcourse he has Sith within his ranks, easily worth a good lot of battle droids...

Edited by Farstrider
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Hmmmmm....

 

Comparing Malgus's army to Grievous's is tuff; I'd have to really get deep to find out who would win, but I'd give a slight edge to Malgus in this since.

 

One-on-One? Malgus. He'd wipe the floor with Grievous. I don't usually like to say that people would win by a landslide, but I honestly think that Malgus would own Grievous. Malgus is just so beast.

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Hmmmmm....

 

Comparing Malgus's army to Grievous's is tuff; I'd have to really get deep to find out who would win, but I'd give a slight edge to Malgus in this since.

 

One-on-One? Malgus. He'd wipe the floor with Grievous. I don't usually like to say that people would win by a landslide, but I honestly think that Malgus would own Grievous. Malgus is just so beast.

I'm thinking if Malgus ever got close to Grievous then Grievous would escape. Here's a scenario: Malgus boards Grievous' flagship, but Grievous gets wind of it and escapes, activating the self destruct sequence, Malgus is pulverised! :D

 

As you can see, it doesn't have to come down a lightsaber duel, although if it did Malgus would win.

Edited by Beniboybling
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Considering that the Kaggath is all about power bases, I still think the General would win all the way. He has hundreds of worlds (the Separatists) backing him. Honestly I feel like Malgus has more enemies than allies, and while enemies don't matter, I still feel like he's just so unpopular (with other Sith/ Imperials) that his support would be very small (compared).

 

 

[Off topic:

Next Kaggath Suggestion: GOTO vs. Jabba the Hutt

Or some other underworld battle. I love the underworld!]

Edited by Warren-Stride
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Power-wise, Malgus is close to if not slightly more powerful than Dooku. So, if we consider that Dooku wiped the floor with Grevious several times over, and is also a better strategist, then Malgus would beat Grevious. The General is always about overwhelming his opponents; he's a coward. So, if he can't overwhelm Malgus, he'll stay alive long enough until he can. Grevious would win the war of attrition.
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"Trillions of battle droids"? Hardly guys. He doesn't have that many. Not even a one one-hundredth of that. I wonder if anyone even watches TCW. I believe in one episode, those of the Banking Clans stated something along the lines of; "Well the Separatists just applied for a loan to commission another three-million battle droids." To which one of the Republic Senators cried out "Three million?! They'll wipe us out!"

 

If three-million droids is all it takes to threaten the Republic at that point, it's truly a sad, sad day in SW.

 

Now, with the Kaggath, even as it is a battle which includes power bases, if Grievous is killed, it doesn't matter how much of his power base is left, as without him it's an auto-loss. You could think of it like Chess. Once the King is captured, it doesn't matter how many pieces you still have left on the board. You've already lost. Malgus wrecks Grievous in combat. There's no question. And as far as armies go...

 

Even if you remove the Foundry level from Malgus' station, that only means he doesn't have an infinitely spawning army of droids. He still has an invisible, undetectable armada of ships, and his space station is invisible as well. Plus he has numerous alliances with non-human species who all serve him, as well as scientists that continue to devise and create weapons for him. This includes technology from the Colicoids.

 

All Grievous has are droids, droids and, guess what? More droids. That's it. He has no super-weapons, aside from that super ion-cannon on the Malevolence, which can be easily taken out by a fighter squadron. And when you have squadrons of invisible ships, Grievous has zero chance of winning in that kind of battle.

 

Grievous is a coward. Flat out. He never fights 1v1 unless he is assured victory. And when it becomes clear he won't win, he either runs away or calls in droids to intervene and pressure his opponent so he can get an opening. Malgus will take him apart.

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You could think of it like Chess. Once the King is captured, it doesn't matter how many pieces you still have left on the board. You've already lost.

 

The thing is, as you said, Grievous is a coward and won't get captured. We've seen him escape many times, he'll do it again. In this Kaggath it would not come down to a one on one fight.

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The thing is, as you said, Grievous is a coward and won't get captured. We've seen him escape many times, he'll do it again. In this Kaggath it would not come down to a one on one fight.

 

The only reason why Grievous escapes so often is because of Plot Protection. If he didn't appear in Ep3, they'd have killed him off already. That's all it is. For such things like Vs debates and so forth, that won't cut it. He doesn't have the Plot keeping him from being offed. The same can be said for Malgus. He may not get to stay as the "Emperor". Here, Grievous won't have to wait for Obi-Wan to smoke him. And has been said before, Malgus has other Sith on his side, including Darth Serevin.

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The only reason why Grievous escapes so often is because of Plot Protection. If he didn't appear in Ep3, they'd have killed him off already. That's all it is. For such things like Vs debates and so forth, that won't cut it. He doesn't have the Plot keeping him from being offed. The same can be said for Malgus. He may not get to stay as the "Emperor". Here, Grievous won't have to wait for Obi-Wan to smoke him. And has been said before, Malgus has other Sith on his side, including Darth Serevin.

 

I don't understand how plot protection is a valid argument.... Everything is about plots.....

 

Saying that a character lacks an ability and only shows it because they need to in order for the story to continue is like saying Luke doesn''t really have the Force but to keep the story going they let him use it.

Plots exist for a reason, and that's to show off the characters abilities and strengths/weaknesses WHILE the story continues.

 

Malgus would not have survived a grenade to the face as well as being buried under a montain if not for plot. If he did not appear in The False Empoper, he would have been killed before the game even started. So if Grievous isn't an escape artist, Malgus isn't a juggernaught.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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Clearly you're misunderstanding. Plot Protection keeps a character from being killed until a certain point. And, btw, if Malgus died on Alderaan then he wouldn't have appeared on Coruscant during the Sacking. Things like this are used to maintain Continuity. However, such is Irrelevant here because this is not a story written within the confines of the SWU. It is a hypothetical scenario falling outside of the Story which prevents such characters from being offed.

 

For example, Obi-Wan was protected by Plot in Ep1 when fighting Maul. Maul had the upper hand and clearly would've (should've) won and killed Obi-Wan. However, since they needed to preserve continuity, PIS were induced to allow Maul's defeat. That would be Plot Induced Stupidity. Which generally involves making a character act out-of-character. It's what keeps villains from offing heroes and makes them give long-winded monologues instead of just getting the job done. PIS/CIS is a constant tool in fiction for the sake of story development and keeping certain characters around until they are no longer needed.

 

However, once more, such a thing does not apply here. And Grievous' cowardice is not a special power. Malgus surviving Satele's Force Blast is more evidence of how tough he is, and it was the reason for his respirator.

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Remember what Grievous did on the Tartakovsky's Clone War Series: he was a ****** , not a coward.He was fast,4 arms + using legs + spider-like abilites+ using walls and cellings. Tough fight,but he'd win a duel.

 

All out war?Tough call too.Maybe a ruined galaxy for an Android to rule?

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Remember what Grievous did on the Tartakovsky's Clone War Series: he was a ****** , not a coward.He was fast,4 arms + using legs + spider-like abilites+ using walls and cellings. Tough fight,but he'd win a duel.

 

All out war?Tough call too.Maybe a ruined galaxy for an Android to rule?

 

And -that- series has been made non-canon. It also made the cast obscenely more powerful than they were ever depicted in the Movies, EU counterparts and later the newer TCW series. You watch EP3 and TCW, he's a pure-bred coward. Having four arms doesn't mean much. There've been Jedi and Sith like that before.

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And -that- series has been made non-canon. It also made the cast obscenely more powerful than they were ever depicted in the Movies, EU counterparts and later the newer TCW series. You watch EP3 and TCW, he's a pure-bred coward. Having four arms doesn't mean much. There've been Jedi and Sith like that before.

 

Wait,since when it was made non canon?

It explains everything in the beginning of Ep 3!

Also,how can it become non canon if it brought us the Gen'dai,Durge,Asajj,Grievous...

Edited by schwartzpedro
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Clearly you're misunderstanding. Plot Protection keeps a character from being killed until a certain point. And, btw, if Malgus died on Alderaan then he wouldn't have appeared on Coruscant during the Sacking. Things like this are used to maintain Continuity. However, such is Irrelevant here because this is not a story written within the confines of the SWU. It is a hypothetical scenario falling outside of the Story which prevents such characters from being offed.

 

For example, Obi-Wan was protected by Plot in Ep1 when fighting Maul. Maul had the upper hand and clearly would've (should've) won and killed Obi-Wan. However, since they needed to preserve continuity, PIS were induced to allow Maul's defeat. That would be Plot Induced Stupidity. Which generally involves making a character act out-of-character. It's what keeps villains from offing heroes and makes them give long-winded monologues instead of just getting the job done. PIS/CIS is a constant tool in fiction for the sake of story development and keeping certain characters around until they are no longer needed.

 

However, once more, such a thing does not apply here. And Grievous' cowardice is not a special power. Malgus surviving Satele's Force Blast is more evidence of how tough he is, and it was the reason for his respirator.

The key word here being, irrelevant. While I completely understand your point, not only is it completely hypothetical, its also an argument outside of the Star Wars Universe and therefore not valid. So for the purpose of debate, Grievous is a master escapist. And why can't he be? It has nothing to do with his powers, he just has to be smart enough to know the way to the escape pod, and we all know how quick he can move with those legs. What's more, you said so yourself, Grievous is a coward, well, tha's subject to debate but he certainly chooses flight over fight more often than not. So, say, if Malgus boarded his flagship, he would run for it. Malgus is highly unlikely to win the war purely by storming his way into whatever room Grievous is in, if you think about it, out of all other matchups, a 1v1 fight is least likely to happen.

 

But anyway, you make some good points. Malgus has a lot of spin balls while Grievous has few (may i also note that ground rules excludes Darth Serevin from this battle), but Grievous has a lot of droids. No, your right, he doesn't have 'trillions of battle droids'. He's got, and this is a direct quote from Wookiepedia backed up by a source:

a colossal army numbering in the quintillions
!!!!!!!!!

So, while Malgus doesn't have to wade his way through every single battle droid. He does have to fight them. So Grievous has Malgus pinned down on the battlefield. But in my opinion, its in space that this battle will be one or lost. According to Mace Windu:

the Separatist navy has four times the number of ships we do

Being the Republic, so Grievous has Malgus heavily outnumbered in terms of ships. But I think we can all agree that Sith battlecruisers are far superior to that of the CIS, so they probably count for 3 of Grievous' ships. Still though he is outnumbered. As JekRendar said, Grievous would win the war of attrition. Malgus' only hope of victory is to destroy Grievous' production facilities, or strike at Grievous himself - but Grievous is incredibly evasive.

 

It all comes down to how skilled a tactician Malgus is, and whether he can end the war as quickly as possible by cornering the General. Personally I don't think it can be done.

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I guess what I was trying to say was that Grievous escaping has less to do with any kind of skill he has at it and more to do with the Plot enabling him to do so for the sake of Story Canon. But anyway, the likelihood of him actually escaping from a space battle with Malgus is virtually nil because of the cloaked fleet. Grievous has no way of fending off attacks from invisible persuers, or even knowing if one is sitting right outside his docking bay, ready to blow him to cosmic dust.

 

No, your right, he doesn't have 'trillions of battle droids'. He's got, and this is a direct quote from Wookiepedia backed up by a source:

 

I honestly wouldn't take anything from a Wiki related site to heart. It says one thing, but we don't see anywhere near that number in any of the media; Movies, Books, TV and games. Not even if you combined all the droids you say in all those formats together, you still wouldn't see anything close to the number that Wookiee states. Especially when, as I said before, that the Republic senate is worried about a few million more being made as opposed to the supposed quintillions that're on the field. It doesn't make any sense.

 

Being the Republic, so Grievous has Malgus heavily outnumbered in terms of ships. But I think we can all agree that Sith battlecruisers are far superior to that of the CIS, so they probably count for 3 of Grievous' ships. Still though he is outnumbered. As JekRendar said, Grievous would win the war of attrition. Malgus' only hope of victory is to destroy Grievous' production facilities, or strike at Grievous himself - but Grievous is incredibly evasive.

 

That I can agree on. In terms of numbers, Grievous does have the advantage. He probably has 6-1 odds on Malgus. Yet as we know, for all the Numbers that Grievous had, Jedi and the Clones have been more than matching them to the point of a near stalemate. The difference here, I'd say, is that Malgus' forces are more varied, with different species and ways of fighting, along with Sith War Droids. Plus Malgus has the Schism Collective, a group of alien scientists dedicated to advancing the weapons and technology under Malgus' command. One such being the Flux Cannon on Malgus' space station, which can completely destroy a Capital Ship in one shot.

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That I can agree on. In terms of numbers, Grievous does have the advantage. He probably has 6-1 odds on Malgus. Yet as we know, for all the Numbers that Grievous had, Jedi and the Clones have been more than matching them to the point of a near stalemate. The difference here, I'd say, is that Malgus' forces are more varied, with different species and ways of fighting, along with Sith War Droids. Plus Malgus has the Schism Collective, a group of alien scientists dedicated to advancing the weapons and technology under Malgus' command. One such being the Flux Cannon on Malgus' space station, which can completely destroy a Capital Ship in one shot.

 

I thought the rule was that all tech was the same in this debate because:

 

Any tech made by Malgus and his scientists would alreay have been invented by Grievous's era. If you want to argue that Malgus has better tech you will lose, because anything he creates the CIS will have / know about.

 

The "more ways of fighting" argument is completely not true. The types of droids used by the CIS were numberous, and let's not forget that there was more to the Confederacy than droids.

 

Click this link and scroll down the page to "Members" for a full list. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army

 

The innovation and unorthodox tactics used by this large number of different droid types and organic soldiers puts Grievous at an advantage for the "more ways of fighting" arguement.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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