I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

 

The following changes are going out in 2.0 and won't be making it onto PTS.

 

Bounty Hunter

Mercenary

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Arsenal:

-Tracer Missile: The Heat Signature applied by Tracer Missile now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Heat Signature effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Heatseeker Missiles: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Heat Signature. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Heat Signature effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Tracer Missile.

-Light 'Em Up: No longer affects Heat Signatures applied by Tracer Missile.

 

Trooper

Commando

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Gunnery:

-Grav Round: The Gravity Vortex applied by Grav Round now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Gravity Vortex effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Demolition Round: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Gravity Vortex. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Gravity Vortex effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Grav Round.

-Gravity Surge: No longer affects Gravity Vortices applied by Grav Round.

 

Pure BS... /sadpanda

Here is a question, will that 25% damage boost to HSM be in addition to the current buff we get, or just the same thing. Because if it is the same thing we have now this essentially does absolutely nothing for arsenal/gunnery

 

It looks like it is replacing. Currently Demo round receives 5% extra damage per grav vortex, up to 5 stacks (25%). This will be replacd with a flat 25% for one vortex (no stacking).

 

So a buff in that it reaches max damage quicker, but no extra damage in total.

 

They say "additional" damage, so it means on top of the current buff.

 

No.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Jherad

You're WAY more positive than I am about this.

 

The entire point was to make us ranked viable. This won't even come CLOSE to that - we're going to be so far behind snipers as RDPS it's not even funny. And we'll likely see nothing more for a long time to come.

 

Game over man, game over.

 

Get your alts ready

 

Like I said, I'm calling this a win that it wasn't basically just a nerf in disguise. There is no way I can look at this that makes it a nerf. Partial burst in PVP is better (full armor debuff plus fully buffed DR with only one cast of GR) and a little more unpredictable, and like I said this is a nice small QoL buff in PVE.

 

Take what we can get and run imo after looking at what they did to Assault. I mean holy crap that was bad.

 

Here is a question, will that 25% damage boost to HSM be in addition to the current buff we get, or just the same thing. Because if it is the same thing we have now this essentially does absolutely nothing for arsenal/gunnery

 

Except a burst phase doesn't require 3 full casts of TM to get off a fully buffed HSM along with the armor debuff on the boss for the rest of your raid.

 

It's a very small QoL improvement, and it's not a nerf. Lets count ourselves lucky and resign to continuing to not being ranked viable imo.

Like I said, I'm calling this a win that it wasn't basically just a nerf in disguise. There is no way I can look at this that makes it a nerf. Partial burst in PVP is better (full armor debuff plus fully buffed DR with only one cast of GR) and a little more unpredictable, and like I said this is a nice small QoL buff in PVE.

 

Take what we can get and run imo after looking at what they did to Assault. I mean holy crap that was bad.

 

Yeah, I was holding out for being in a better place vs other classes in high end pvp than we are on live. I don't believe that has happened. At all.

 

In that respect, this has been a complete and utter failure.

Yeah, I was holding out for being in a better place vs other classes in high end pvp than we are on live. I don't believe that has happened. At all.

 

In that respect, this has been a complete and utter failure.

 

Well sure, but there's failures like what gunnery faced, and failures like what assault faced. One of those is bigger failure than the other.

It looks like it is replacing. Currently Demo round receives 5% extra damage per grav vortex, up to 5 stacks (25%). This will be replacd with a flat 25% for one vortex (no stacking).

 

So a buff in that it reaches max damage quicker, but no extra damage in total.

 

That's a pretty significant buff for PvP. It means that you're able to hit your burst in a single GCD, which gives you a chance to do real, appreciable damage very quickly. GR -> DR will be a fully-proced Demo Round and all of the damage that entails. Especially considering that DR can be casted on the run, this is a pretty significant change. If you're really in a pressed situation, you could do: GR -> DR -> (TO) GR -> GR -> HiB. Everything after the first Grav Round is mobile, and the damage dealt is quite significant (somewhat less than what an appropriately-speced Sniper can do in the same time period if their cooldowns are up, but only when they sit down and cast).

 

Additionally, this means that an interrupt on GR will be less debilitating, since the armor debuff won't need as much watching (CB does better damage anyway).

 

It's starting to look to me more and more like commandos might be viable in PvP in the right hands. Certainly much harder to play and position than a gunslinger, and maybe not viable in ranked, but things seem like they're in a vastly better position than they are on live.

Well sure, but there's failures like what gunnery faced, and failures like what assault faced. One of those is bigger failure than the other.

 

Yeah, but being positive about what we got is kinda like giving a restaurant a good review for not curling off a steaming turd in your beef bourguignon.

 

It's starting to look to me more and more like commandos might be viable in PvP in the right hands. Certainly much harder to play and position than a gunslinger, and maybe not viable in ranked, but things seem like they're in a vastly better position than they are on live.

 

Assuming a crit (hah) It's the difference between 7.7k and 8.75k in (and only in) those situations when you could only get 1 grav round off as opposed to 3. If that were all it took to make us ranked viable, we'd have been in a much better position. Right now, snipers/slingers are miles ahead of where we are.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Jherad

I definitely have a team that supports me, brainstorms with me, and tests with me, but I do all of the design, implementation, and balance for all of the classes by myself. It is a daunting task.

 

The following changes are going out in 2.0 and won't be making it onto PTS.

 

Bounty Hunter

Mercenary

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Arsenal:

-Tracer Missile: The Heat Signature applied by Tracer Missile now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Heat Signature effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Heatseeker Missiles: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Heat Signature. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Heat Signature effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Tracer Missile.

-Light 'Em Up: No longer affects Heat Signatures applied by Tracer Missile.

 

Trooper

Commando

-Electro Net: This ability now applies its effects instantly instead of waiting for a projectile to finish traveling.

 

Gunnery:

-Grav Round: The Gravity Vortex applied by Grav Round now lasts 45 seconds. In addition, the Gravity Vortex effect now reduces armor by 20% and no longer stacks. Furthermore, this ability now fires a faster-moving projectile.

-Demolition Round: This ability now deals 25% additional damage if the target is affected by your Gravity Vortex. In addition, this ability now fires a slightly slower-moving projectile, ensuring that the Gravity Vortex effect-checking will work properly if fired off immediately after a Grav Round.

-Gravity Surge: No longer affects Gravity Vortices applied by Grav Round.

 

not surprsing it's daunting... but I really would like to find out what help you're giving dps sages/sorcs -- in particular Tk/lightning which still remains really poor for pvp due to it's stationary stand and cast style and balance/madness who were totally reliant on the snare to work and now everyone can break it - no extra line of defense given.

 

please, there is a long discussion in particular on the "no pushback" thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=611692 and many others. lots of good feedback, some complaints (don't get offended pls, it just shows the passion), and some really good ideas too. We don't want the caster sage/sorc to get protection by becoming as armored as a trooper/bH or guardian/jugg or have it in heals like a healing spec or grant it cover like agents/smugglers. - our main problem is that we don't have sufficient uptime on our abilities for the TK/lightning spec to be effective enough - and for the balance/madness with the snare a lot less effective now, we need other forms of defense.

 

for TK/lightning we were discussing possibilities of allowing an occasional short period of casting while moving and a big knockback added to turbulence/thundering blast and the main target only of TK wave/chain lightning - these possibly activating on a shared resource like charges of something you can consume to either give you a short time per charge of casting on the move or consume to give turb/TB and TK wave/CL a big knockback (tune an appropriate cooldown). WE also thought ideas like Cloud mind making the sage/sorc untargettable for a few secs would be really helpful, and a backflip to gain distance another option that would be really cool. Please check out the topic, it is a read, but it would give you an insight to how these guys are feeling and what their experience on PTS so far is showing.

 

I in particular feel that TK/Lightning sorcs need ways they can use their abilities more - because at the moment they get closed down too fast, drop too quick, and locked down hardly unable to do anything unless they are hiding before being spotted, - I like the fact it has an acitvation time, that's it style, so rather htan grant more instant abiliteis, i'd prefer a period where it can move and cast instead and maybe throw in a second knockback and a backflip so it can get a few more hits in before they force leap or roll back in range and just pulverise you tiny armored toon.

 

And they need a finisher too for both pvp and pvE.. but we been waiting sooo long on something to imporve dps sage/sorc in pvp and a finisher for both, but nothing.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Macetheace

Just a heads up, I am going to be moving this thread to the Classes forum so the conversation can continue since we will be wiping the PTS forum tomorrow morning.

 

Thanks!

 

(it will have a redirect until then)

 

Oh good. No devs will have to see it then.

I'm somewhat upset... These changes, while fortunately not a nerf in any way I can think of (beside the possibility of DR/HSM not being fast enough on target to kill somebody/interrupt somebody in time), fail to address the main issue that emerged from previous testing, which is heat/ammo management. Changing the relative talent to give a straight +ammo regen like most classes get would have probably been enough to satisfy most people, while still not being OP.

 

I won't touch the dps issue, as people keep saying that the numbers are closer together than they were before. I have a hard time believing that, seeing how long it took to get decent commando/merc dps compared to other classes. if nothing else, it proves that the class now has a steeper learning curve than other classes.

 

OTOH, while the electro net fix was due, it was a bug fix really, this new patch still fails to give mercs/commandos a significant role in pvp, relegated to being "playable" at best in random wzs. Better than 1.2 onward I guess, but still not really satisfying...

 

Ah well, let's hope that with the big issue of the expansion out of the way, more dev time will be spent on actual, ongoing class balancing.

Well, I'm just happy it's not a nerf. It sounds like we're going to be able to have a pretty quick burst, since we can fire off one TM then hit them with a fully buffed HSM. I like the sound of that. I don't think it will make us viable for ranked though.

 

P.S.: Love that little change to Electro Net. It was much needed.

Yay! Communication

 

Changes look great.

Even if your hope was more from a PvP perspective, the signature and HSM change will make a difference in PvP burst where every GCD counts. No, you didn't get god mode, but that's a nice fix.

Even if your hope was more from a PvP perspective, the signature and HSM change will make a difference in PvP burst where every GCD counts. No, you didn't get god mode, but that's a nice fix.

 

Apparently these days, 'god mode' is the ability to participate competitively in ranked warzones.

Thanks AP and Eric for responding to this thread despite all the usual crying etc.

 

I don't mind the fact that we won't be able to test all of this, since there hasn't been much testing going on anyway. Glad we'll get the expansion and all...

 

And the changes seem promising. To be completely honest, AP, I think the solution to get rid of that 'build up' may have been your greatest idea ever. As Arsenal, we already have two 'spammable' casts: Power Shot and Tracer Missile that we can switch in between interrupts, and since you gave us the Hydraulic Overrides, we should be able to get away from the melee somewhat (and from further interrupts).

 

This 'build up' fix seems very promising as getting interrupted early on was always a bit of an issue. People had to get those casts in, but couldn't because of interrupts. Now getting interrupted shouldn't be that big of a deal, but we will see.

 

...You can always give us the pushback to our Rocket Punch too, but add a short root to the end of it, that breaks on damage Or just a flat % slow for x seconds...

Edited March 25, 2013 by SneiK

The changes IMO are better than the player base expected for Arsenal. Arsenal will easily be the subclass of choice for Merc dps in both pvp and pve.

Apparently these days, 'god mode' is the ability to participate competitively in ranked warzones.

 

I'm sorry that's what you got out of the post. I assure you the actual and obvious meaning behind the post is something different, but I have a feeling reality is in the backseat to taking out your frustrations on fellow forum members. It's OK.

the changes really didnt do anything special. I am curious though if TM is going to be hitting faster than before and with the changes to stats especially crit it seems like we are being steered back towards the stack power and spam TM instead of away from that. Also are the changes going to affect our buildup for RS as well as HSM or is that still a separate stacking buff we have to build up to? Edited March 26, 2013 by Ansalem

Yay! Communication

 

Changes look great.

 

okay, now that im not using my crappy phone.

 

changes look good, AP and EM thanks for putting your .02 in here. we love to see you guys getting involved in the discussion

 

the change to Tracer Missile/Grav Round is great. especially since its something we discussed extensively as something that would be in a step in the right direction. i dont know if our feedback played any part in that, but its a good change anyways.

 

also nice to *finally* see a fix to the HSM travel time. that was something that always bugged me, and im glad it got fixed.

 

Gunnery should (on paper anyways) be more viable in PvP, and maybe even RWZ. since youre attention is on this thread (i hope it still is anways!) id like to suggest reducing the cooldown of Power Surge and Thermal Sensor Override. Both of those abilities have 120s base cooldowns, which given their functions is absurdly long.

 

if the base cooldown for Power Surge and Thermal Sensor Override were reduced to 60s, i think we'd be cooking with fire. its also a small, quick change and its the kind of change that would not have a negative effect on balance (DPS/HPS wouldnt increase, both abilities are geared towards mobility/resource management). there was a thread on the PTS forum, which is going to be kaput soon, where there was almost unanimous support from everyone that posted in it.

 

again, its nice to see devs getting involved in the forum discussions. the change that was outlined is definitely something that will have a positive effect on the class, and hopefully we see 1 or 2 more key changes added before 2.0 goes live.

 

The changes IMO are better than the player base expected for Arsenal. Arsenal will easily be the subclass of choice for Merc dps in both pvp and pve.

 

unfortunately that would have been the case w/out this update. Pyrotech is a shell of what it once was.

Edited March 26, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

What about Combat Medics? I want to heal ranked warzones too.

Looks like the CGC nerf did not get re-worked.

 

Oh well.

God they give arsenal/gunnery a rather nice buff and people still complain, then again its the PVP community, that's nothing new

God they give arsenal/gunnery a rather nice buff and people still complain, then again its the PVP community, that's nothing new

 

People are complaining about about Pyro/Assault and Merc healing. According to your half wit mentality, no one should complain about Anni/Watchman because Rage/Focus is OP.