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It's Really Sad to See TCW Be Cancelled


Talon_strikes

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[i don't get what the whole fuss was about.

 

TCW sounded and looked like a kids cartoon to me.]

 

My uncle who was 74 when he died once told me "U don't stop watching cartoons because u get old, u get old because u stop watching cartoons. " That said, even tho I'm 38yrs old my kids & I have seen every episode of TCW. They weren't really SW fans until the clone wars cartoon. And They were just as upset as I was to hear it was cancelled. There were a lot of great stories told within that series.

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Overall the show was a poor excuse of representing this era, but there were a few good moments maybe during this version of Clone Wars.

 

But yes, ending the show, and having Disney kill it off along with a number of Star Wars video games is just wrong.

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Even in its' original form the Clone Wars was just an excuse for big battles and CGI, all subsequent iterations are pretty much hamstringed by that and the simple fact that the "Tragedy of Darth Vader" will overshadow them the same way it did the Episode I-III films.

 

Not to downplay what TCW has managed to do with what they were given, from what little I saw of season 2-3 it definitely had its' moments. But did anyone really expect this version of the Clone Wars to really go on for much longer? As is the writers had broken from the film canon straight away and were more or less completely ignoring all other forms of media that established the Clone War period (i.e. other clone war series, books, games, etc.). And especially since all of it takes place in a tiny time period between Episode II-III... there isn't really much else they could have done with the series without just making up filler episodes with more subplots.

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[i don't get what the whole fuss was about.

 

TCW sounded and looked like a kids cartoon to me.]

 

My uncle who was 74 when he died once told me "U don't stop watching cartoons because u get old, u get old because u stop watching cartoons. " That said, even tho I'm 38yrs old my kids & I have seen every episode of TCW. They weren't really SW fans until the clone wars cartoon. And They were just as upset as I was to hear it was cancelled. There were a lot of great stories told within that series.

 

I watch cartoons too. In fact its pretty much all I watch. But I agree CW is childish. Its not childish because its a cartoon, its just childish. My evidence:

 

Ok, so using a season one jar jar focused episode isn't that fair, but the series did stuff like that a lot, and yes, that is kiddy materiel.

 

Only some arcs rose above that crap and did something remotely respectful, and so I only care about a few of the arcs and not really the overall show.

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Point is this. They could of gone more of Skirrata like Mandos instead of what i consider just an affront to Mando Culture.

 

Jesus seeing something like that name a Mandalore that would not be rolling in his grave. It took the who set up for those who trained the clones and just took a huge dump IMO. I refuse to watch TCW for the simple fact it's not just retconning.

 

It just dumps on the SW universe. I mean seriously, bringing back MAUL? Guy is cut in half and they bring him back? Sorry and having him basically take out Mandalore and put death watch under his control, yeah...no. Just no.

 

Some of their decisions I flatly do not agree with. And having a DUCHESS to lead them, that's a pacifist? Goes against the whole damn CULTURE. KT be damned!

 

Again, i'd rather of them taken the angle of Mando vs Mando, not these prissy boys who call themselves mandos. Sorry I just do not agree with TCW. And I never will.

Here's the problem here, your making a mistake that many seem to regarding those issues. Writing something off because in your opinion it does not seem 'logical' without actual judging the quality of the result.

 

For example: What the hell is wrong with a pacifist Mandalore community? Apart from it being completely against Mandalore culture (which is an excellent plot device AKA a plus). Its funny because most of the arcs revolved around this very 'argument' if you can call it that, with Death Watch being outraged and the New Mando's attempting to justify there position. NOTE: Its called variation, not everyone likes the same old same old done again warrior culture.

 

Futher example: Maul was by far one of the best characters in the entire series, he brought excellent plot devices to the series, was perfomed by IMO the best voice actor in the series, was superbly scripted and altogether played a major part (as did the New Mandos) in one of, if not the, best episode in the series which far out ranks any of Traviss' work or anything same old same old warrior culture could of brought.

 

Unless of course, you can think of an excellent, diverse story in which a traditional Mando culture would bring. My first thoughts are: Jedi come to Mandalore, stuff happens, Republic blast them into oblivion. End arc.

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I watch cartoons too. In fact its pretty much all I watch. But I agree CW is childish. Its not childish because its a cartoon, its just childish. My evidence:

 

Ok, so using a season one jar jar focused episode isn't that fair, but the series did stuff like that a lot, and yes, that is kiddy materiel.

 

Only some arcs rose above that crap and did something remotely respectful, and so I only care about a few of the arcs and not really the overall show.

Your basing your argument on a smattering of episodes that really do not represent the majority of the series. I can list just as many episodes if not more, were this is not the case.
[/url] being a good counter-clip - kiddie? childish? or rather dark, chilling and powerful. This also being a good example, and this. Oh and
[/color]... and that's just to name a few.

 

Let's also remember that a large portion of the Star Wars audience are children, this is called appealing to all audiences, which I feel they do very well.[/color]

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Here's the problem here, your making a mistake that many seem to regarding those issues. Writing something off because in your opinion it does not seem 'logical' without actual judging the quality of the result.

 

For example: What the hell is wrong with a pacifist Mandalore community? Apart from it being completely against Mandalore culture (which is an excellent plot device AKA a plus). Its funny because most of the arcs revolved around this very 'argument' if you can call it that, with Death Watch being outraged and the New Mando's attempting to justify there position. NOTE: Its called variation, not everyone likes the same old same old done again warrior culture.

 

Futher example: Maul was by far one of the best characters in the entire series, he brought excellent plot devices to the series, was perfomed by IMO the best voice actor in the series, was superbly scripted and altogether played a major part (as did the New Mandos) in one of, if not the, best episode in the series which far out ranks any of Traviss' work or anything same old same old warrior culture could of brought.

 

Unless of course, you can think of an excellent, diverse story in which a traditional Mando culture would bring. My first thoughts are: Jedi come to Mandalore, stuff happens, Republic blast them into oblivion. End arc.

 

Umm how bout the breath of the war. How bout finding out WHO TRAINED THE CLONE ARMY? Why it was ordered and by whom[yes the fans know this but it was never REALLY investigated].

 

How bout some of the climatic battles that took place during the war. Medstar duology about that plant Bariss Offee found. Great arc right there.

 

There was PLENTY of things they could of covered in the war that would of been just as epic or even more so and MADE SENSE, than bringing back a sith who was cut in two and by all rights SHOULD BE DEAD. Or the pacifist Mandos?

 

REALLY?! SERIOUSLY?!

 

And you're going to sit there and defend those choices? *head desk* *head desk* *head desk*

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Umm how bout the breath of the war. How bout finding out WHO TRAINED THE CLONE ARMY? Why it was ordered and by whom[yes the fans know this but it was never REALLY investigated].

 

How bout some of the climatic battles that took place during the war. Medstar duology about that plant Bariss Offee found. Great arc right there.

 

There was PLENTY of things they could of covered in the war that would of been just as epic or even more so and MADE SENSE, than bringing back a sith who was cut in two and by all rights SHOULD BE DEAD. Or the pacifist Mandos?

 

REALLY?! SERIOUSLY?!

 

And you're going to sit there and defend those choices? *head desk* *head desk* *head desk*

Really? This is your alternative, some fancy visuals and a historical backstory? No thank you. And again, you judging the quality of the New Mandos and Darth Maul by the logicality of them happening - rather than the quality of the results, which you have failed to criticise and seem to be avoiding. Who cares if Maul survived bisection, it's Star Wars for God's sake. In fact you not even doing that, all I read here is emotive crap, empty statements such as 'pacifist Mandos' with exclamations added. Clearly my position needs no defending.
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Really? This is your alternative, some fancy visuals and a historical backstory? No thank you. And again, you judging the quality of the New Mandos and Darth Maul by the logicality of them happening - rather than the quality of the results, which you have failed to criticise and seem to be avoiding. Who cares if Maul survived bisection, it's Star Wars for God's sake. In fact you not even doing that, all I read here is emotive crap, empty statements such as 'pacifist Mandos' with exclamations added. Clearly my position needs no defending.

 

Ok some other things that could of been done without the mando/Maul crap.

 

Medstar Duology on Drongar. Jesus a whole season could of been done RIGHT there.

 

Blacksun, and how they double dealed through the way, and that could include jedi, separatists, Prince Xixor..

 

Giliad Peleon and the Leveler could of shown up more.

 

More ARC and Commando team missions.

 

More about how the clones were trained and who trained them. Whole season right there in flash backs.

 

Yoda going to Vjun with the two jedi aprentices to face off against Dooku.

 

NOT making Grevious look like a chicken-s*** coward and actually leading the Separatist army.

 

Some of it granted was done alright, like Ventress.

 

But there was so much that was kicked to the side and or ignored and so much CRAP put in it's place.

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Your basing your argument on a smattering of episodes that really do not represent the majority of the series. I can list just as many episodes if not more, were this is not the case.
[/url] being a good counter-clip - kiddie? childish? or rather dark, chilling and powerful. This also being a good example, and this. Oh and
[/color]... and that's just to name a few.

 

Let's also remember that a large portion of the Star Wars audience are children, this is called appealing to all audiences, which I feel they do very well.[/color]

 

Its like you didn't even read half my post. The whole part where I said some arcs rose above the childish. Your arguing for nothing.

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Its like you didn't even read half my post. The whole part where I said some arcs rose above the childish. Your arguing for nothing.

 

I'd actually say the opposite, that some arcs descended into childishness while most of them dealt with far more mature themes. It was more prevalent during earlier seasons, but the latter half of the series was mostly serious, dealing with themes such as the consequences of war, treason, betrayal, slavery, corruption, etc. Many of these themes have shown up in other shows, but rarely are they dealt with as maturely. And then there's the violence, of course. They certainly didn't shy away from killing off their characters or doing terrible things to them, to the point where CN actually had to censor a few scenes in later seasons. That show certainly stretched its TV-PG rating to the breaking point.

 

In my opinion, TCW actually outshines the entire Prequel Trilogy. It appears at first to be your average children's show, especially during the first couple seasons or during specific episodes, but peel away the layers and you find a lot of complex themes running through the series, not to mention the fact that it starts growing much darker later on. While I do agree that there's only so many stories they can tell before they reach the events of ROTS, I would like them to at least wrap up the dangling plot threads before they move on.

 

I can only blame Disney for the cancellation, since I'm sure they want to move on and have all of their new media, be they shows, books, comics, or whatever else, tie in with the new Star Wars movies. But they could have at least allowed one last season to wrap everything up, especially since the show was doing really well and they left a lot of threads dangling. I hope the "bonus content" they've mentioned will wrap everything up without making it seem rushed...

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*snip*
Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. None of this comes even close to the quality of the Maul & New Mando arc - not even close. Not that you've explained to me why its 'crap' yet...

Its like you didn't even read half my post. The whole part where I said some arcs rose above the childish. Your arguing for nothing.
Oh I read your post, and I entirely disagree. Like Kurokage says "I'd actually say the opposite, that some arcs descended into childishness while most of them dealt with far more mature themes." I certainly wouldn't class said clips as 'remotely respectable'. So yeah, I read your post and I entirely disagree.

In my opinion, TCW actually outshines the entire Prequel Trilogy.
This. While I don't think it outshines RotS as a whole, certain arcs do - and certain scenes outclass the entire saga. However I did read somewhere that the bonus material would tie up loose ends, however those cut included a end to Cad Bane's and Aurra Sing's stories - which really sucks.
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Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. None of this comes even close to the quality of the Maul & New Mando arc - not even close. Not that you've explained to me why its 'crap' yet...

Oh I read your post, and I entirely disagree. Like Kurokage says "I'd actually say the opposite, that some arcs descended into childishness while most of them dealt with far more mature themes." I certainly wouldn't class said clips as 'remotely respectable'. So yeah, I read your post and I entirely disagree.

This. While I don't think it outshines RotS as a whole, certain arcs do - and certain scenes outclass the entire saga. However I did read somewhere that the bonus material would tie up loose ends, however those cut included a end to Cad Bane's and Aurra Sing's stories - which really sucks.

 

Umm lets see? SENSE? Does it make sense at ALL that a man cut COMPLETELY in half, disembowled should be able to live?

 

Even with the force, sorry I don't believe ANY force user could survive that, not even Luke Skywalker at his strongest level I think could survive that!

 

Yet somehow maul does? Sorry to me makes NO sense.

 

And the pacifist mandos? Goes against EVERYTHING that mandos EVER stood for. Even Kal skirrata would of dropped dead in shock. Canderous would of killed them all, and don't get me started on Mandalore the Ultimate.

 

Want to have a splinter off of mando culture, concordia dawn or where ever jango and Jaaster mereel were from would of worked. Least they'd be MANDO.

 

Sorry to me, they are not mandos. Not even close. To call them that, is flat out disrespect to EVERY writer who has EVER done mando culture.

 

It's like making japanese samurai the peace corps. That is why IMO it's complete and utter crap.

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Umm lets see? SENSE? Does it make sense at ALL that a man cut COMPLETELY in half, disembowled should be able to live?

 

Even with the force, sorry I don't believe ANY force user could survive that, not even Luke Skywalker at his strongest level I think could survive that!

 

Yet somehow maul does? Sorry to me makes NO sense.

Yeah, because the Force makes perfect scientific sense as well. This is a fantasy universe for God's sake...:rolleyes:

And the pacifist mandos? Goes against EVERYTHING that mandos EVER stood for. Even Kal skirrata would of dropped dead in shock. Canderous would of killed them all, and don't get me started on Mandalore the Ultimate.
Your point being? You do realise this was the entire point of that concept?! They are radical, different, interesting. And allow for an engaging rivalry between two Mando factions. Or did you not notice the constant hatred Death Watch had for, and I quote, 'Duchess Satine and her weak peace-loving government.' They sound right up your street.

Want to have a splinter off of mando culture, concordia dawn or where ever jango and Jaaster mereel were from would of worked. Least they'd be MANDO.

 

Sorry to me, they are not mandos. Not even close. To call them that, is flat out disrespect to EVERY writer who has EVER done mando culture.

 

It's like making japanese samurai the peace corps. That is why IMO it's complete and utter crap.

You mean the True Mandalorians, who dissolved in 44 BBY - 22 years before the Clone Wars began. Guess that only leaves the rival faction... oh wait, Death Watch, 'descendants of the true warrior faith all Mandalorian's once knew'. You'd think that would be good enough. Strange that people seem to be ignoring the fact that TCW didn't do with the Mandalorians entirely, not at all, they merely introduced a new faction for the Mando's to compete with (*SPOILER* Death Watch wins *SPOILER*)
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I'd actually say the opposite, that some arcs descended into childishness while most of them dealt with far more mature themes. [...]

 

In my opinion, TCW actually outshines the entire Prequel Trilogy. It appears at first to be your average children's show, especially during the first couple seasons or during specific episodes, but peel away the layers and you find a lot of complex themes running through the series, not to mention the fact that it starts growing much darker later on. While I do agree that there's only so many stories they can tell before they reach the events of ROTS, I would like them to at least wrap up the dangling plot threads before they move on.

 

I can only blame Disney for the cancellation, since I'm sure they want to move on and have all of their new media, be they shows, books, comics, or whatever else, tie in with the new Star Wars movies. But they could have at least allowed one last season to wrap everything up, especially since the show was doing really well and they left a lot of threads dangling. I hope the "bonus content" they've mentioned will wrap everything up without making it seem rushed...

 

Disney is probably trying to walk the line between respecting the loyalty of fans of TCW and also making practical business decisions. They have limited resources with which to produce Episode VII on schedule, it's only two years out, they're going to need to start moving heaven and earth to get the special effects and postproduction resources lined up and ready so that filming can start, probably near the end of the year or early 2014.

 

Their decision to trim down the animation staff assigned to TCW likely represents some of that shifting focus. I could reasonably expect to see at least the major plotlines wrapped up in special episodes down the road, assuming the fan response is strong enough that Disney hears the message.

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Umm lets see? SENSE? Does it make sense at ALL that a man cut COMPLETELY in half, disembowled should be able to live?

 

Even with the force, sorry I don't believe ANY force user could survive that, not even Luke Skywalker at his strongest level I think could survive that!

 

Fair enough, that is a little far fetched. However, if we just accept that this was a special ability of Maul, like Sion's refusal to die, and that he's a hate fueled vengeance machine sworn to get revenge on Kenobi, it could work. Once he kills Kenobi, he would probably die as his hatred dissipated and he was able to gain some measure of peace with the Force.

And the pacifist mandos? Goes against EVERYTHING that mandos EVER stood for. Even Kal skirrata would of dropped dead in shock. Canderous would of killed them all, and don't get me started on Mandalore the Ultimate.

 

Want to have a splinter off of mando culture, concordia dawn or where ever jango and Jaaster mereel were from would of worked. Least they'd be MANDO.

 

Sorry to me, they are not mandos. Not even close. To call them that, is flat out disrespect to EVERY writer who has EVER done mando culture.

 

You're actually a testament to the fact that the writers of those story arcs knew exactly what they were doing. The fact that they've elicited this emotional response from you makes the motivations of the Death Watch very believable. It's just good writing to introduce this kind of variation and conflict into Mandalorian culture. I'm sure if you asked any of the writers who worked with the Mandalorians (even Travesty) and they would agree that it's an interesting dynamic.

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Fair enough, that is a little far fetched. However, if we just accept that this was a special ability of Maul, like Sion's refusal to die, and that he's a hate fueled vengeance machine sworn to get revenge on Kenobi, it could work. Once he kills Kenobi, he would probably die as his hatred dissipated and he was able to gain some measure of peace with the Force.

 

 

You're actually a testament to the fact that the writers of those story arcs knew exactly what they were doing. The fact that they've elicited this emotional response from you makes the motivations of the Death Watch very believable. It's just good writing to introduce this kind of variation and conflict into Mandalorian culture. I'm sure if you asked any of the writers who worked with the Mandalorians (even Travesty) and they would agree that it's an interesting dynamic.

 

1. Sion was not hacked literally into two pieces. He just took enough physical trauma that would fell a normal being.

 

2. I completely disagree that it was good writing. Death Watch on one hand was done well from the episode or two i saw. But I just refuse to call them real mandalorians. Again like i said, it's like disarming Samurai and making them pacifists. And being lead by a duchess who is NOT mando? No that is just TOO far out there. I could again see a mando female who lead a split off who doesn't wear the beskar'gam and wanted peace, but a DUCHESS? Sorry that's again taking the stories i had liked that were already written about the ear and just taking a big huge dump on them.

 

IMO there is retconning to make things make sense like Asaj Ventress. But a lot of the rest of it, no, just HELL no. You want to consider it cannon, it can be an alternate cannon. IMO it does NOT replace books like Medstar, or Clone commando books, or Dark Rendezvous.

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1. Sion was not hacked literally into two pieces. He just took enough physical trauma that would fell a normal being.

 

2. I completely disagree that it was good writing. Death Watch on one hand was done well from the episode or two i saw. But I just refuse to call them real mandalorians. Again like i said, it's like disarming Samurai and making them pacifists. And being lead by a duchess who is NOT mando? No that is just TOO far out there. I could again see a mando female who lead a split off who doesn't wear the beskar'gam and wanted peace, but a DUCHESS? Sorry that's again taking the stories i had liked that were already written about the ear and just taking a big huge dump on them.

 

IMO there is retconning to make things make sense like Asaj Ventress. But a lot of the rest of it, no, just HELL no. You want to consider it cannon, it can be an alternate cannon. IMO it does NOT replace books like Medstar, or Clone commando books, or Dark Rendezvous.

 

I believe the duchess was a Mandalorian at one point, her sister remained with Death Watch. However, the peaceful Mandalorians are still Mandalorians, they're just rejected by more "hardline nationalist" Mandos. It's exactly like disarming Samurai and making them pacifists. But that's a good thing.

 

Look at post WW2 Japan. You have a culture that lives and breathes warfare in the name of the Emperor, two generations were raised to fight and die without hesitation. They get rofl-stomped by the USA and their entire country is basically reduced to ashes.

 

From there, they disarm and their entire cultural perspective begins to shift and undergo major changes. The Mandalorians are similar to this, we see that Mandalore has been heavily bombarded and the Mandalorians have just been clobbered for far too long in warfare. As a reaction to this, a segment of their population adopts different viewpoints and rejects the warrior culture of the past.

 

This story development is not only grounded in historical realities, but helps to develop the Mandalorians into something more than a cardboard cutout villain that pops up to attack the Republic periodically. You see dynamic change in their culture.

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I believe the duchess was a Mandalorian at one point, her sister remained with Death Watch. However, the peaceful Mandalorians are still Mandalorians, they're just rejected by more "hardline nationalist" Mandos. It's exactly like disarming Samurai and making them pacifists. But that's a good thing.

 

Look at post WW2 Japan. You have a culture that lives and breathes warfare in the name of the Emperor, two generations were raised to fight and die without hesitation. They get rofl-stomped by the USA and their entire country is basically reduced to ashes.

 

From there, they disarm and their entire cultural perspective begins to shift and undergo major changes. The Mandalorians are similar to this, we see that Mandalore has been heavily bombarded and the Mandalorians have just been clobbered for far too long in warfare. As a reaction to this, a segment of their population adopts different viewpoints and rejects the warrior culture of the past.

 

This story development is not only grounded in historical realities, but helps to develop the Mandalorians into something more than a cardboard cutout villain that pops up to attack the Republic periodically. You see dynamic change in their culture.

 

I can see what you are saying, but in the context of the follow-on 3 movies and books, it makes NO SENSE.

 

I guess I am just to wedded to the EU books and consider them a good cannon on where Star Wars has gone.

 

Though i think the next 3 movies are going to completely crap upon the EU books and i think i am going to be quickly alienated from SW sadly.

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I can see what you are saying, but in the context of the follow-on 3 movies and books, it makes NO SENSE.

 

I guess I am just to wedded to the EU books and consider them a good cannon on where Star Wars has gone.

 

Though i think the next 3 movies are going to completely crap upon the EU books and i think i am going to be quickly alienated from SW sadly.

 

I think the next trilogy is going to process and absorb what exists of the EU and keep some while overwriting a lot of stuff. Plotlines will change heavily, but I doubt they'll just erase everything.

 

I also don't see what you're saying about how the context of the movies makes no sense. Are we just talking about the Mandalorians here? Because they don't feature in Episodes III-VI at all.

 

I understand that you appreciate the books of the EU, and they create a lot of great content, but you have to accept that those writers are just contributing ideas to Lucas' vision of Star Wars and that it's up to LucasFilm to organize and ultimately make those ideas a coherent part of canon, especially that close to the films.

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You're actually a testament to the fact that the writers of those story arcs knew exactly what they were doing. The fact that they've elicited this emotional response from you makes the motivations of the Death Watch very believable. It's just good writing to introduce this kind of variation and conflict into Mandalorian culture. I'm sure if you asked any of the writers who worked with the Mandalorians (even Travesty) and they would agree that it's an interesting dynamic.
This, this, this.
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