After reading the Revan book...I don't care what Lucas said...Darth Vitiate is the most powerfull Sith have ever been. FFS he was able to "eat" the force and life of an entire planet and almost did the same with the whole galaxy (the Knight stops him just in time). So no...Palpatine is a mere insect near Vitiate.

Oh, I love it when people read the thread before posting :roll:

Palpatine > Vitiate. We all know that story, we all read Revan, we debated, and we decided Sidious is still stronger because this thread is Raw Power.

Vitiate accomplished that through a ritual, with 'willing' sith, while Papa palps quite literally destroyed fleets with his raw power. He probably could have done that ritual too, if there were more sith, and his goal was to be alone in the world. But no, his goal was to rule the galaxy, can't do that if everyone is dead

And what about the people who absorbed the Valley of the Jedi power? The one who has that power should be able to "make an entire solar system to vanish with a whisp".

I'm pretty noob in those "Force users discussions" and I wanna know :_

1. Vitiate

2. Sidious

3. Vader (he had the potential to become more powerful than Sidious but in the end failed)

4. Yoda

5. Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion (both were unbeatable)

1. Vitiate

2. Sidious

3. Vader (he had the potential to become more powerful than Sidious but in the end failed)

4. Yoda

5. Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion (both were unbeatable)

I don't usually quote myself, buuuut...

Ah, another Ventress to my Dooku.

Sorry to necro this thread but I think Abeloth (and the Father, Son & Daughter) of Mortis is/are the most powerful force user ever if based on force power only, maybe the dread masters would be up there too and the emperor (vitiate). All the other dark lords used deception and cunning after Darth Bane's rule of 2, and beforehand no one sith could claim to be all powerfull.

Maybe Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun or even King Adas of the sith on Korriban could have been the most powerfull, or on the other hand many of the Jedi who had in fact turned to the Sith, perhaps were even more powerful in the force?

Galen Marek was exceptionally powerful and gifted in the force, as was Revan and many of the characters from the movies, Yoda, Mace Windu, Qui Gon Jinn, Anakin & Luke etc...

I think it seems a bit too easy for people to say Palpatine is the greatest force user of all time, as he himself was just an instrument of the darkside in a plot that had been set in action 1000 years before.

Sorry to necro this thread but I think Abeloth (and the Father, Son & Daughter) of Mortis is/are the most powerful force user ever if based on force power only, maybe the dread masters would be up there too and the emperor (vitiate). All the other dark lords used deception and cunning after Darth Bane's rule of 2, and beforehand no one sith could claim to be all powerfull.

 

Maybe Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun or even King Adas of the sith on Korriban could have been the most powerfull, or on the other hand many of the Jedi who had in fact turned to the Sith, perhaps were even more powerful in the force?

 

Galen Marek was exceptionally powerful and gifted in the force, as was Revan and many of the characters from the movies, Yoda, Mace Windu, Qui Gon Jinn, Anakin & Luke etc...

 

I think it seems a bit too easy for people to say Palpatine is the greatest force user of all time, as he himself was just an instrument of the darkside in a plot that had been set in action 1000 years before.

We weren't counting entities.

Sorry to necro this thread but I think Abeloth (and the Father, Son & Daughter) of Mortis is/are the most powerful force user ever if based on force power only, maybe the dread masters would be up there too and the emperor (vitiate). All the other dark lords used deception and cunning after Darth Bane's rule of 2, and beforehand no one sith could claim to be all powerfull.

 

Maybe Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun or even King Adas of the sith on Korriban could have been the most powerfull, or on the other hand many of the Jedi who had in fact turned to the Sith, perhaps were even more powerful in the force?

 

Galen Marek was exceptionally powerful and gifted in the force, as was Revan and many of the characters from the movies, Yoda, Mace Windu, Qui Gon Jinn, Anakin & Luke etc...

 

I think it seems a bit too easy for people to say Palpatine is the greatest force user of all time, as he himself was just an instrument of the darkside in a plot that had been set in action 1000 years before.

This guy is not speaking untruths.

This guy is not speaking untruths.

In terms of the Dread Masters, they are a group. Individually I doubt they are as powerful. That said we do not know so we shouldn't even bother considering it, less we fall into the quagmire of speculation.

Ancient Sith Lords are also not being considered for similar reasons, so no Ragnos, no Adas etc. Galen Marek is already on the list, as is Yoda, as is Luke. Anakin is here in the form of Vader, who it should be noted narrowly surpassed Exar Kun. Though that at least is open to some discussion.

And yes, its easy to say Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lords, because we have been told it time and time again. Futhermore his background and context are irrelevant (and too frequently brought up) in regards to Force power.

That said he was the pinnacle of the Rule of Two. Give that some thought.

^the last sentence.

In regards to what he did, i would give more weight in regards to his success ,to the pinnacle of the Sith Imperative and his execution of it.I would give less weight to his supposed pinnacle of strength and power.After all the Rule of Two undermines the Republic and the Jedi through deception , treachery and manipulations,a conspiracy,not through strength of arms.

With that said i am not underestimating his power in the Force and the way he and Plagueis clowded it in darkness prior to the movies.

Palpatine > Vitiate. We all know that story, we all read Revan, we debated, and we decided Sidious is still stronger because this thread is Raw Power.

Vitiate accomplished that through a ritual, with 'willing' sith, while Papa palps quite literally destroyed fleets with his raw power. He probably could have done that ritual too, if there were more sith, and his goal was to be alone in the world. But no, his goal was to rule the galaxy, can't do that if everyone is dead [/color]

Who cares what you debated and decided( i can assume you are not talking just about this thread,in the context of responding to that guy).The forum is not just 3,4 ppl that color theirs posts and a few more.

What Vitiate accomplished through ritual could only be accomplished through ritual.What Palpatine does ,does not require a ritual,that's why he is not using a ritual.And there goes the ritual argument.I know ... you must be confused.

Unfortunately, Vitiate supporters, Sidious' position can't be challenged because he is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord. And, no, Vitiate's supposed transcendence does not mean that he can be considered superior to Sidious.

Simply put, he lacks the power, no matter what we consider him.

^the last sentence.

In regards to what he did, i would give more weight in regards to his success ,to the pinnacle of the Sith Imperative and his execution of it.I would give less weight to his supposed pinnacle of strength and power.After all the Rule of Two undermines the Republic and the Jedi through deception , treachery and manipulations,a conspiracy,not through strength of arms.

With that said i am not underestimating his power in the Force and the way he and Plagueis clowded it in darkness prior to the movies.

The Rule of Two is chiefly about power, raw power in the dark side. The Grand Plan is a secondary motive, ultimately Darth Bane created the Rule of Two to make the Sith stronger than they had ever been. And they did this by accumlating a wealth of knowledge, teaching and experience and using this to explore deeper and deeper into the dark side. Take a look at Darth Bane, he accumulated a vast library of dark side knowledge in his life time, which made him considerably powerful, and Zannah added to this through her knowledge of Sith Magic. And so the lineage continues with each Sith Lord expanding on the knowledge of the dark side being compounded and become more powerful because of it. Each Sith Lord stronger than the next.

Effectively what Bane created was a process, a factory line if you will with the product being the ultimate Sith Lord. The true goal of the Rule of Two was too achieve ultimate power in the dark side, and that is why Plagueis and Sidious become lax with its application, because they believed themselves to have reached that goal.

And Sidious did reach that goal. To quote Wookieepedia:

Upon spending decades immersing himself in the many facets of the Force, it was believed that Sidious had a mastery over all known powers, previously unknown powers, and could create new abilities on a whim. By the time of his final death, he had become a nexus of the dark side capable of tearing apart the fabric of space.

Sidious was the product of a millenia of study and advancement in the dark side, of accumulation of power. Hence being the pinnacle of the Rule of Two is to be an exceptionally powerful being, the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

I can't seem to understand how people don't see how fitting that is, that the apex of the greatest Sith Order ever established would be none other than the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy has and ever will see.

Who cares what you debated and decided( i can assume you are not talking just about this thread,in the context of responding to that guy).The forum is not just 3,4 ppl that color theirs posts and a few more.

What Vitiate accomplished through ritual could only be accomplished through ritual.What Palpatine does ,does not require a ritual,that's why he is not using a ritual.And there goes the ritual argument.I know ... you must be confused.

We did not decide who the most powerful Sith Lord was...