Just wanted to say that BW stated that SWTOR is designed as to allow dedicated crafters to not be forced to partecipate in end game pve to be competitive on the market.

 

I don't know if this RE thing is good for the game, but they are keeping their word on the matter and i'm happy for that.

so here we have it, clearly another BUG being exploited while we wait for BW to debate whether they are making it OK to keep it or not. We all know you cant RE slot specific amoring to learn scehemetics yet this person is milking it somehow by make/pulling/reing slot specific armorings

http://s11.postimage.org/4o8wcofub/Screenshot_2012_10_30_03_53_30_486860.jpg

What many fail to realize is everything that I said in my last post, but here are a few new things I'll add to help you understand how crafting works in every MMO.

 

First, without ever stepping into end game content, there is a way to make money. Mats have always been a favorite. Here is the funny part: YOU DON'T EVEN NEED THE TOP LEVEL. WoW, Everquest, Aion, SW:TOR, DAoC, etc all have vast markets in gathering lowbie mats and selling them. After all, there are always new crafters getting into the crafting game, old crafters who are too lazy/rich or unable to farm, and players who want things crafted (paying a nominal fee for a "put-together").

 

Second, you do not need to do end game content to be competitive in the market - it's all about time and effort. For example in SW:TOR, you can buy a basic level schematics for every single profession. With these, there are 3 levels, which can be attained with a little luck and farming. What is the major cost? It's your time. You spend the time pumping out greens to re to the CORRECT blue to re to the CORRECT purple (or blue, purple, purple). Another example is WoW, where you have to farm the same mob(s) 50-400 times to gain some of the rare schematics. On a side but related note, isn't end game content just another set of grinding requirements for getting these schematics?

 

 

Now, I don't know if the current RE system is the BEST or not, but to put it in laymen's terms: it is how it is. Buying a crafted mod/enhancement/armoring to reverse engineer circumvents the traditional format of gaining that schematic, because this was NOT intended (as the developer pointed out at the beginning of this thread). I would say the main reason that they are not considering it an exploit is due to the sheer number of violated EULAs and their inability to quickly patch this problem before it became widespread...but that is another discussion.

 

 

Just wanted to say that BW stated that SWTOR is designed as to allow dedicated crafters to not be forced to participate*fixed spelling error in end game pve to be competitive on the market.

 

I don't know if this RE thing is good for the game, but they are keeping their word on the matter and i'm happy for that.

I don't know where you "heard" this, but if true, they dropped the ball. In 1.2, you could farm schematics by doing a variety of activities, many of which were not "end game content" per se. Flashpoints (daily group finder) and daily quests (black hole weekly) were another way to get black hole gear and learn schematics. Unfortunately for those who don't PVE, armorings, hilts and barrels were off limits, but there were still quite a few patterns to learn.

 

In 1.4, they threw out the book and went back to the rakata format, and like rakata gear, it's poorly itemized. For BiS, you'd be farming well into the next major expansion. If they wanted to make it so that all schematics were available to everyone, they failed. And by the looks of how they set up everything, I highly doubt they intended all of crafting to be available to everyone if you look closely (scroll back to post #2 on this thread)

 

It all boils down to whether*fixed spelling error BW wants to cater to the elitists who can only feel good about themselves by knowing they have something others don't, or keep the gear and crafting available for everybody.

For the looks of their response in this thread, they haven't decided yet what to do. I hope they keep it like this.

The funny thing is, the changes are once again so small to everything but barrels/hilts, that even in full rakata, you could clear this content. This whole tier of gear is nothing BUT complete catering to elitists who want more and better gear.

 

Another funny thing is, the crafters that are directly affected by this bug are mostly the 1% of SWTOR players. That is to say, it's millionaires stealing from other millionaires. Most of the players who have the capital to copy are players who earned those credits by bleeding the market with other crafts.

 

Also, your statement is a prime example of how ignorant players are. You don't deserve equipment just because you reached level 50. Top tier gear isn't for everybody. Part of the draw to end game content in ANY mmo is the EXCLUSIVITY of gear to end game content. I don't know of any game that just gives you the best stuff for showing up.

 

 

 

To sum up, crafting was already available to everyone. The difference is that now the SCHEMATICS are available to "everyone". To be honest, I'm not happy with the current way, but as with life, you have to adapt. Even if they somehow fix this bug, players who can't do end game content to legitimately gain patterns still have a plethora of ways of earning credits

Edited October 30, 2012 by IronAznSnsation

We are getting off topic but as my first MMO I thought crafting would be somewhat of a specialism but also about choice.

 

What I had expected to see:

• Wide variety of crafts
  
• Dependency based progression through a craft i.e. to make grade 2 I must have made grade 1
  
• High end crafting being a result of time and effort on the part of the player
  
• Some top of the tree, uniquely crafted items - even if just vanity
  
• Perhaps mixed in with story or specific optional missions
  

 

So maybe on crafting I do expect an elite, but separate to actual content. Elite crafting should be about spending effort on the craft with content being an alternative.

 

Probably the context I would put on it is thus, I've spent a lot of time and credits on learning every armoring up to purple for levellers, this might make me a 'Master Cybertech'. Anyone with much less expended (crafting) effort, can simply RE the Kephess drop or even buy, rip and RE to get a purple high end schematic.

The "It's a game, who cares?" argument doesn't hold much weight. Football's a game, but I don't think Super Bowl winners would be very happy if SB rings were available to anyone willing to purchase one.

.

 

So if I go to a pawn shop and buy a SuperBowl ring for 200K, would that mean all those Football players that still have theirs should throw their arms up and cry that their "struggle" to play a "game" is now diminished because someone was able to accumulate a great deal of wealth working hard for, probably more, years and now owns one of the rings?

 

I don't see the issue people have with this. It's not like they can just go, do a couple dailies, take their 10 comms and pick up a BiS mod. Who cares what other people that don't have the dedication to raiding that you do wear. It's their game too you know. They have every right to play it however they want and if there's a way to work hard gathering credits so they can gear themselves without stepping foot in the highest raid, then so be it.

 

How about a new idea....everyone play their game the way they want since they're the ones paying their own money to be in this GAME and stop caring if someone else got gear a different way than you.

Edited October 31, 2012 by _tegrof

At the end of the day it's still all about RNG! Doesn't matter how you aquire the item to RE, but the "Risk" of RE is all the same. The fact of the matter is one person got lucky on a roll of the dice (twice actually) and one person had the cash to do the same. BIOWARE - Please keep this feature/bug in place.

 

Those that are upset are going to be one of two types:

• Crafter that is making millions off that item and doesn't want to see anyone else RE the item.
  
• Elite minded individual that feels if you didn't step foot in that HM you don't deserve the right to RE that LOOT or even wear that level of gear. (Pride in completing the HM's doesn't mean others should be required to play the same way!)
  

 

BW implement a "Black Speeder" version for HM TFB to show a completed HM TFB! (Besides the Wiggler pet)

 

Don't like the HIGH prices? Check the prices of RAW materials and you can gauge if they are in alignment. Unlike some character on our server that had posted a $1,000,000,000 HILT 27. (Yes.. $1 billion - Not sure if it was being "Shown Off" or the ~$130 mil deposit for status symbol)

Edited October 31, 2012 by dscount

So what some people are saying is, "I want to make millions off of getting lucky and winning the roll for a schematic, but I don't want anyone else to make millions by PAYING ME millions so they can try to get lucky REing the same thing."

 

Do the crafters in question really think the people making them rich by spending 30-40 MILLION credits on the 15-20 armorings they buy are wearing them? Of course not. Te folks making them rich are the ones trying to RE the items, Eliminate that market, you make a lot less money.

 

If this gets "fixed," the next thing we'll hear, from the same people complaining about it, no less, is, "Crafting is dead, the GTN is dying! I can't make a profit anymore!! SWTOR is dooooomed!!!!"

Same can be said for any intellectual (intangible) property protection irl. Edited November 1, 2012 by Banegio

The same thing has happened to me recently, I've had the Knight BIS mod schematic stolen off me, and it is dead obvious, because the only people buying them off me are the ones that have now learnt it. This definitely should be addressed, I don't mind if I have competition, but it should be because they went into HM TFB, won the loot roll, then won the RE, like I did. Also, you know why I want to make money? So i can buy armourings/mods/enhances for my toons, that's whats called an economy, what I make i spend elsewhere, and money flows nicely to those that deserve it for their hard work. Also, a big UP YOURs to those who have schematics by the wrong means.

LMAO this is a game folks. I worked hard for my mods before I knew about this game mechanic. Now I do both. I have no problems with this feature. It is not a bug, exploit, or glitch. If you choose to work hard for all your mods, that's your prerogative, and your problem. The cost of the materials required to make the mods is the same no matter who makes them and how one got that schematic. In addition, getting crits happens to everyone. And so you make double the money when you get crits too. Honestly, why ***** and moan about this?

 

If you are currently not making atleast a couple million in a week, you're in the wrong market or you are GTNing wrong.

The same thing has happened to me recently, I've had the Knight BIS mod schematic stolen off me, and it is dead obvious, because the only people buying them off me are the ones that have now learnt it. This definitely should be addressed, I don't mind if I have competition, but it should be because they went into HM TFB, won the loot roll, then won the RE, like I did. Also, you know why I want to make money? So i can buy armourings/mods/enhances for my toons, that's whats called an economy, what I make i spend elsewhere, and money flows nicely to those that deserve it for their hard work. Also, a big UP YOURs to those who have schematics by the wrong means.

 

Do you not see the problem here? If the only people buying your mod are crafters trying to learn it, making it unlearnable will eliminate your sales, and you're in a worse position because at least now you have credits from those other crafters. Making credits off of a well known schematic is entirely possible; other crafters buying your monoplized mod is proof of that.

^ dinwitt

 

If you "honorable" crafters truly feel you are being monetarily jipped, ask BW to increase the credit rewards related to that mission.

Still hoping this will get fixed...

At the end of the day it's still all about RNG! Doesn't matter how you aquire the item to RE, but the "Risk" of RE is all the same. The fact of the matter is one person got lucky on a roll of the dice (twice actually) and one person had the cash to do the same. BIOWARE - Please keep this feature/bug in place.

 

Those that are upset are going to be one of two types:

• Crafter that is making millions off that item and doesn't want to see anyone else RE the item.
  
• Elite minded individual that feels if you didn't step foot in that HM you don't deserve the right to RE that LOOT or even wear that level of gear. (Pride in completing the HM's doesn't mean others should be required to play the same way!)
  

 

BW implement a "Black Speeder" version for HM TFB to show a completed HM TFB! (Besides the Wiggler pet)

 

Don't like the HIGH prices? Check the prices of RAW materials and you can gauge if they are in alignment. Unlike some character on our server that had posted a $1,000,000,000 HILT 27. (Yes.. $1 billion - Not sure if it was being "Shown Off" or the ~$130 mil deposit for status symbol)

 

+1

Agree with this post even i havent got any endgame high level schematics from RE (call me unluckiest person) but i still want this to stay same. 10% chance to get successful RE is very low. The higher the mod is the more you loose if you fail to RE. Mats to craft 26 & 27 costs are high enough to keep it balance.

Mats to craft ONE mod alone is 1m+ credits.

I remember seeing first cartel market white crystal appeared in GTN after patch asked price was 100m

Edited December 2, 2012 by Divona

You jelly? Go and raid yourselves, see how "easy" it is to get a rare schematic. This should be removed because of all those cheap-schem-stealers mats are going sky-high and no one is making proper money.

All I hear is 'whaaaaaaaa....I want to be a special snowflake and get to decide who is worthy of having end game items while charging those I deem worthy many multiples of the cost of mats'.

 

Grow up. You aren't special because you won the RE lottery, nor because you killed some boss in a video game.

 

In my opinion, none of the current end game stuff should RE to a schematic while it is still BIS (e.g. no 27s RE to schematics until 28s are available in a new Operation).

 

At the very least, crafting end game items should require a mat that only drops rarely in the same content, and thus keeps the amount of end-game crafted items very low.

 

As it is now, end game in SWTOR is a joke given people can RE BIS items, get schematics, turn around and craft stacks of them for themselves, their guild, their friends, and their server so they can all over-gear the content.

 

And don't even get me started on how stupid it is that bound mods can be pulled from drops and then sent to alts using legacy gear.

 

The fact that my level 25 Warrior Artificer has sets of end-game gear ready for when she hits 50 while being able to craft end game BIS enhancements is just beyond dumb game design.

You jelly? Go and raid yourselves, see how "easy" it is to get a rare schematic. This should be removed because of all those cheap-schem-stealers mats are going sky-high and no one is making proper money.

 

Making money is about business policy, not about this exploit/bug/feature. You just need to learn to swim in order to stay on top.

Honestly I do not understand the hype. Everyone has the same chances.

In my opinion, none of the current end game stuff should RE to a schematic while it is still BIS (e.g. no 27s RE to schematics until 28s are available in a new Operation).

 

At the very least, crafting end game items should require a mat that only drops rarely in the same content, and thus keeps the amount of end-game crafted items very low.

 

As it is now, end game in SWTOR is a joke given people can RE BIS items, get schematics, turn around and craft stacks of them for themselves, their guild, their friends, and their server so they can all over-gear the content.

.

THIS. Honestly the best point made in this thread.

 

1) seems the main complaint in this thread is that BiS gear should only be available to people that raid the content, if that's what you want then 27 schematics SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE LEARNED PERIOD. If you're gonna whine that people can get gear by spending credits then you shouldn't be able to make mods for your guildies/buddies who haven't raided the content before or be able to sell them for huge stacks of creds, completely hypocritical. Saying that "people should have an alternative to end game content by buying each mod/armoring/enhancement for 20 million creds each" is just a bs excuse for being greedy and wanting more money.

 

2) Another complaint I've seen is that people get gear too fast because of crafters and get bored with content. Well, it's their own prerogative if they want to get their mods from crafters or not, regardless of who they get it from (their own guild crafters included). This just again goes back to only one way to fix that problem: get rid of 27 schematics until 28 or higher comes out

 

3) Last complaint I noticed was that all these "schem-stealers" are killing the market by undercutting. There is still a HUGE profit to be made crafting 27 schematics, and let's be honest here.....the market would be DEAD for the 27 mods if they could not be learned from other crafters. Why? Because who in their right mind would really want to spend millions of credits on a measily upgrade, that extra 3 endurance really goes a long way huh? The majority of your profits have come from other crafters buying your stuff.

 

Now, we all know that dread guard gear is horribly optimized, so if they took away the 27 schematics, the only way to optimize would be by having to get multiple drops of the same piece to rip out the mods/enhancements you need for the rest of your gear. That just sounds like more of a bore and way more of a grind. So I vote to leave things the way they are now! You're still making money, still raiding the content for chances to RE some other sweet loot so by my observations it would seem that this "bug" has actually made the game more fun for people who raid high end content

LOL, I have gone the dungeon, raid, guild drama route and would rather take a stick in the eye (twice) than going there again. Another LOL, I group, face challenges, and work hard in RL and actually play games and MMOs for fun and relaxation. i know that is rare but what the heck.

 

I do feel for the raiders (that small percentage of players) that feel cheated because they are challenged now in being the uber MMO class. I am sorry for them in that their few nights a week of raiding is not bring the fame, glory, and wealth that they so richly deserve. I also feel sorry for MMO devs who spend 95+ percent of their time, effort, and resources in building a leveling game and have no clue what to do with characters at cap other than raid or die.

 

So I would like to chime in and let the entitled players and guilds know that I will not be "stealing" their patterns. I could since I have a great deal of credits which were earned the old fashioned way (learning and growing my crafting skills and building a good understanding of the GTN and game economy). I will just wait until levels 51 - 55 are added and then have my green drops be better than their now BIS gear.

 

No, I am not umadbro, I am amused and find this thread and many of the posters funny.

I fail to see what the problem with this is. I feel that items were too expensive as it was due to the rarity of stabilizers. I think this is win win for everyone. Crafters & the marketplace both.

Its not worth it to most players to attempt to "steal" a recipe.

 

Am I going to spend 1.2mil on an enhancement in an effort to try and learn it? Since it's 10% chance, I should set aside 12mil to learn this one enhancement.

 

Then I can maybe make a mil a day if I sit on fleet all day and not actually play the game. While that actually isn't a bad plan if it goes like that, the reality is that 95% of players do not have cash to fund this risky start-up. Nor do they have the patience or free time or desire.

 

Sure maybe some people are stealing the recipe but it has got to be a very tiny number of people. If there are 50 people with the power/surge enhancement recipe, are you really going to suffer if that number goes to 51?

Its not worth it to most players to attempt to "steal" a recipe.

 

Am I going to spend 1.2mil on an enhancement in an effort to try and learn it? Since it's 10% chance, I should set aside 12mil to learn this one enhancement.

 

Then I can maybe make a mil a day if I sit on fleet all day and not actually play the game. While that actually isn't a bad plan if it goes like that, the reality is that 95% of players do not have cash to fund this risky start-up. Nor do they have the patience or free time or desire.

 

Sure maybe some people are stealing the recipe but it has got to be a very tiny number of people. If there are 50 people with the power/surge enhancement recipe, are you really going to suffer if that number goes to 51?

 

It's not 10 but 20%. And it's always worth it. Money spent on learning schematic always returns itself.

Any guilds recruiting on The Progenitor(UK & EU) that can do this stuff and do raids and things, please send a PM, I'd love to try that side of the game but could never really get into it due to the wall of grind, I actually left the game and came back recently (click my profile and post history) cos I was bored! Edited January 8, 2013 by SelinaK

So what some people are saying is, "I want to make millions off of getting lucky and winning the roll for a schematic, but I don't want anyone else to make millions by PAYING ME millions so they can try to get lucky REing the same thing."

 

Do the crafters in question really think the people making them rich by spending 30-40 MILLION credits on the 15-20 armorings they buy are wearing them? Of course not. Te folks making them rich are the ones trying to RE the items, Eliminate that market, you make a lot less money.

 

If this gets "fixed," the next thing we'll hear, from the same people complaining about it, no less, is, "Crafting is dead, the GTN is dying! I can't make a profit anymore!! SWTOR is dooooomed!!!!"

 

make a lot of sense to my what you type here m8

 

So I would like to chime in and let the entitled players and guilds know that I will not be "stealing" their patterns. I could since I have a great deal of credits which were earned the old fashioned way (learning and growing my crafting skills and building a good understanding of the GTN and game economy). I will just wait until levels 51 - 55 are added and then have my green drops be better than their now BIS gear.

 

No, I am not umadbro, I am amused and find this thread and many of the posters funny.

 

Hate to break it to ya, but the devs already confirmed BiS gear in current content WILL NOT be replaced by questing gear....so not sure how you will deal with that wrinkle in your plans...