I'm not sure how this is turning into a manhood measuring contest between healers and tanks, but I'd say my healing companion (admittedly, in full 72s) is significantly better at his job than a good chunk of pug healers (except meltdown and lost island, with their companion eating aoe, the flashpoints can be easily cleared with a companion healer).

 

Healers are never as scarce as tanks for the simple reason that respeccing from dps to heals is easy. With the exception of accuracy, there's really no stat changes to worry about. Respeccing from tank to dps? Many problems. Namely: none of the tanking classes have a popular dps spec at the moment, an entirely different set of gear is required, and the skillset gap between tanking and dps'ing is neither intuitive nor easily learned.

we're talking about good healers, not just any healers. my well geared Xalek does better then most pug tanks I've ran into, and?

the point is - healers, good healers are NOT expendable.

yes, switching between healer and dps is easier than dps and tank in terms of gear. but not in terms of skill.

people don't like tanking pugs because its a thankless job of herding cats atop of a narrow shaky bridge spanning the ravine and most of the time - no safety gear (aka capable healer)

at least tanking and dpsing is essentially "hit mobs in a face a lot" (yes I know there's "hold all aggro" vs "don't pull aggro" but at least in both cases, you are focusing on hitting things) while switch between "hit mobs in a face" and "watch teammates healthbars and keep them full" as a bit more of an adjustment (which is why you get so many "healers" that won't heal, don't cleanse, ect)

but anyways. adding reward for a specific role will have more people trying to play that role. usually badly and without appropriate gear. which is why I personally don't like this solution. there's already too much of that.

last but not least - nice dig at role playing servers. not.

newsflash. the main difference between regular players and roleplayers? is that roleplayers write stories for their characters, often as improvisation, in groups with others. kinda like "whose line is it anyways". that's it. that's the difference. they write stories. other people? don't write stories. role players do tend to be more polite though, if only because successful role playing requires ability to interact with people without pissing them off and you know general empathy.

P.S. I solo quest as hybrid. when I do pug, I don't change my spec WHILE questing - I spec solo hybrid for a reason. I have field respec. no, very much no on spec restriction for queueing. field respec presence on a character? maybe. depending on how its implemented.

Oh, I don't know. I'd think you'd do it for a rancor mount, an all black glossy version of the Desler, or the chance to earn rank 75 gear mods. I could be wrong.

 

I would love to see stats on the tank population right now versus pre 2.0. It must have dropped precipitously, right? Pre 2.0, even bad tanks could get by in HM flashpoints and the HM/NiM variations of two of the four raids. Post 2.0? All of the new HM FPs and the the new raid (even at SM) have noticeable tanking mechanic checks.

 

The two raids that required essentially no tanking mechanics (except, I guess, Fabricator) stayed at level 50, and so did EC HM/NiM. You want to do level 55 content as a tank, you gotta have some idea of how to handle mechanics. And don't tell me SV SM and TFB SM are so easy even bad tanks can do them. As someone who attempted probably 15-20 SM SV and TFB raids through groupfinder for the ultimate comms, a significant percentage of people queuing as tanks could not handle the most simple of tanking mechanics.

This post gets it.

I have a jugg tank, and I dont use GF, and havnt since about a month after 2.0, mainly because there were no more rewards needed through that system.

While I would probably go back to using it if it rewarded something unique, I'm not sure if this is the solution to the overall problem, as it could well bring more bad than good, and possibly lowering the overall experience for most people, but it may be worth a try?

Ive thought about it for some time, and the only way you can rectify tank issues in a trinity system is to make tanking fun. Nothing, and I cant truly emphasize this enough, nothing will lure people into tanking and more importantly wanting to be tanks unless its fun, and since 2.0, its much more of a job than fun.

we're talking about good healers, not just any healers. my well geared Xalek does better then most pug tanks I've ran into, and?

 

the point is - healers, good healers are NOT expendable.

Just a small correction, good PLAYERS are not expendable, whether they are tank, heals or dps. As a tank/healer I will put up with a lot of nonsense and rudeness from a tank/healer/dps if they are good players. Obviously when I tank I will put up with much much more for a good healer than a good dps, but that doesn't change the fact that when it comes to GF there are plenty of healers in the queue and not that many tanks. This is not a tank vs healer contest, about who is more important, which role is better, nor am I trying to insult healers (like I said before my two mains are healers and I love playing with them more than any other classes). This is strictly about the amount of people available for each class in GF. When it comes to the GF bottlenecks, it is almost never the healer, it is almost always the tank. When it comes to the GF, the healer and the dps are expendable. If 1 or 100 people drops out, no one will notice. If even 10 tanks drop out, it is noticeable. Not saying one is better than the other, just stating the GF necessity (when it comes to pure player skill and overall usefulness I honestly don't even need a tank for most fps-not even the new czerka ones as a dps can do it with good healing).

people don't like tanking pugs because its a thankless job of herding cats atop of a narrow shaky bridge spanning the ravine and most of the time - no safety gear (aka capable healer)

Yep, you, me and a bunch of others mentioned this. This is why I think bioware should not allow dps to select the healer checkbox unless they are in healer spec (or a large majority of healer spec) on 55s. A person in dps spec simply will not be able to keep up with a 55 hm, I don't know why they are allowed to queue as a healer. I had to calm down 3 tanks (2 in general, 1 in a fp when I replaced the bad healer) because they ended up getting one of those bad healers-even offered to heal for them when I honestly didn't need to as I had my weekly, daily and about 3 sets of gear for myself (for fashion ).

at least tanking and dpsing is essentially "hit mobs in a face a lot" (yes I know there's "hold all aggro" vs "don't pull aggro" but at least in both cases, you are focusing on hitting things) while switch between "hit mobs in a face" and "watch teammates healthbars and keep them full" as a bit more of an adjustment (which is why you get so many "healers" that won't heal, don't cleanse, ect)

Yeah when I first started I wanted to be a lightning dps, but was unfortunately forced into healing when no one else wanted to do it, so the transition to a tank was tough for me (didn't help that I chose a jugg, the hardest tank to hold aggro with) and I definitely wish that I chose a dps or stayed on the dps path before. It's still a challenge to me, but I am able to keep track of people's health so I can at least taunt off the healer.

but anyways. adding reward for a specific role will have more people trying to play that role. usually badly and without appropriate gear. which is why I personally don't like this solution. there's already too much of that.

You don't really need the best tank in the world to beat an fp (ops is a different story). If he can just turn on soresu form (or whatever powertechs use.. not sure I rolled merc) and just hold off the one gold (and maybe one silver) that is more than enough to beat the fp if you have competent dps and a competent healer (and if you have an incompetent healer you will most likely wipe anwyay). You might wipe once or twice on the harder pulls but you will definitely beat the fp. We just need more people playing tank for the GF, thats all. I honestly don't care if they are a bad tank, I take it as a challenge and push myself to my limit in healing when I get one.

last but not least - nice dig at role playing servers. not.

 

newsflash. the main difference between regular players and roleplayers? is that roleplayers write stories for their characters, often as improvisation, in groups with others. kinda like "whose line is it anyways". that's it. that's the difference. they write stories. other people? don't write stories. role players do tend to be more polite though, if only because successful role playing requires ability to interact with people without pissing them off and you know general empathy.

As I wrote, this is based off of what others (who played on rp servers) told me. Based off of what I hear I don't want to queue with them because they sound borderline crazy. Some of the things I hear is there is a lot of saluting, wayyyyy too much bowing and calling others "my lord" among other dumb things. But hey, they chose an rp server because they like that kind of stuff and that's fine with me. I think it's dumb and don't want to end up in a queue with 3 weirdos.

Edit-and I guess my opinion of them is bad because I was bothered by a perv asking to me to take him as an apprentice or something (among other creepy things) and felt completely creeped out (not on a rp server).

I'm not sure how this is turning into a manhood measuring contest between healers and tanks, but I'd say my healing companion (admittedly, in full 72s) is significantly better at his job than a good chunk of pug healers (except meltdown and lost island, with their companion eating aoe, the flashpoints can be easily cleared with a companion healer).

Try to bring a healer companion to the Athiss final boss and you'll see yourself wiped in a matter of seconds

most players i know are converting to healers for quick queue times

Doesn't work. Maybe I'm not queueing at active times, but even on my Sage as a healer spec, I have not got a single queue pop for weeks.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, what this game needs is to have incentives to queue as tank and healer. It worked wonders in that "game that shall not be named." Yes, initially there were a significant number of bad tanks and healers, but that leveled off in short order and DPS queue times were cut in half to two-thirds. And the incentives were not game breaking. In SWTOR equivalent terms the incentives included:

- a random prototype stim (not necessarily usable by the character awarded it)

- med packs

- crafting materials

- an item modification (again not necessarily usable by the character awarded it)

- a slim chance at a vanity pet

- an even slimmer chance for a speeder.

These were obviously enough to get players to try tanking and healing.

I think one of the major problems is the group treatment of healers. If a healer like me wants to join a group and everyone blames the healer when the group gets wiped... Frequently because they don't wait until the healer is ready... They will blame the healer.

After being treated badly (or more accurately , rudely) a few times, I realized I don't want to be part of that scenario so I never queue up my healer with people I don't know.

My guildies think I'm a great healer, and we rarely wipe, but when I queue for a group, everyone expects the healer to save the group from bad strategy.

If they changed it so people would have to be more patient in kicking people they may find that more healers would want to group up...

I think one of the major problems is the group treatment of healers. If a healer like me wants to join a group and everyone blames the healer when the group gets wiped... Frequently because they don't wait until the healer is ready... They will blame the healer.

 

After being treated badly (or more accurately , rudely) a few times, I realized I don't want to be part of that scenario so I never queue up my healer with people I don't know.

 

My guildies think I'm a great healer, and we rarely wipe, but when I queue for a group, everyone expects the healer to save the group from bad strategy.

 

If they changed it so people would have to be more patient in kicking people they may find that more healers would want to group up...

Healers are almost never the bottleneck. You not queuing only makes healers like me happier. And as a healer you have to adjust to the tank and the situation, they don't have to adjust to you. I do it why my healers, my friends do it with theirs. If you want to set the pace, play as tank.

By all means - NO.

It will bring more ninja looting & rude behavior without shorten queue for DPS characters.

I have some DDs & some tanks... I have seen PUGs firsthand.

Thanks, but NO thanks... I am only using GF on my tank with my wife healer & a friend DPS - so if 4th player give it moron - we could let it dye & still finish what we started then kick hm/her.

Major issue with tank & healer shortage is community.

Last but not least:

You love big numbers ... we have one more big number for you - those of queue length

As has already been mention regarding the game that must not be named, the cross server queues were, for me at least, a disaster. You got more bad behaviour, abusive language, ninja looting and other fun additions to the game than ever before, because the idiots knew they would never see you again, and knew that even if you bad-mouthed them to your friends, you weren't on the same server, and it would have no impact on them.

The incentive bag sort of worked for me, suddenly there was a point to bring a heroic raid geared tank to an instance (yes, Im using the other games terms, forgive me...), and even once I'd got the odd mount or pet myself, the bag could be looked in, and sent on to another toon to grab the BoP reward inside if you wanted it somewhere else.

But the most terrifying result of the reward system was the hordes of screaming dps posting all over the forums complaining how unfair it was that the little light showing a bonus reward only ever lit up for tanks and sometimes healers. How dare Blizzard offer something that was unavailable to the masses to try to resolve a problem affecting the masses? Of course, they got slapped down by tanks, but they kept coming back with the entitled to everything attitudes. Anonymity is such fun...

Back on topic, please, no, or at least if you do want it, make it an option, so I can tick a box that says I only want to play with people on my own server!

Cross server? No it would not solve it.

Want short ques. Learn to tank, learn to heal, or become a top DPS (among top 50 in DPS charts).

I own 2 Heals and 2 Tanks. I que with my brother (awesome DPS) as much as possible. Don't like to que alone as much. If the healer forgets to heal me guess who pays the repair bill, the DPS aggro a second mob I have to tank and get killed/revived guess who pays repair bill.

As for tanks being less readily available than healers, not always true. Today I had an insta pop on my healer (after not getting 1 on my tank) to find out the tank I got grouped with waited 40 mins.

More credits for tank and heals would entice me to que more alone? Yes.

Try to bring a healer companion to the Athiss final boss and you'll see yourself wiped in a matter of seconds

Well on this very forum there is a video of Sentinel with healer comp clearing that one solo. So I wouldn't post that if I were you. With slightly overgeared tank and DPS pulling their weight there there isn't that much healing to be done, and some DPS classes can cleanse the DOT.

As for tanks being less readily available than healers, not always true. Today I had an insta pop on my healer (after not getting 1 on my tank) to find out the tank I got grouped with waited 40 mins.

Right now is kind of a weird time (especially on PvP servers) because 2.4 is about to come out and many healers are on the PTS trying out the new arenas or in warzones trying to get ranked comms for the new gear (I know I am, and I sometimes I see 6 healers on the same team). Also it seems a lot of healers started rolling tank alts so it is kind of a double blow (lose a healer, gain a tank). This trend will not last, and pretty soon it will go back to how it always was. As for that tank, he was just queuing at literally the worst time of day to queue. Once 2.4 actually comes out and people get sick of arenas, it will go back to tanks always instapopping, healers waiting 5-15 minutes and dps ... will stay the same.

Right now is kind of a weird time (especially on PvP servers) because 2.4 is about to come out and many healers are on the PTS trying out the new arenas or in warzones trying to get ranked comms for the new gear (I know I am, and I sometimes I see 6 healers on the same team). Also it seems a lot of healers started rolling tank alts so it is kind of a double blow (lose a healer, gain a tank). This trend will not last, and pretty soon it will go back to how it always was. As for that tank, he was just queuing at literally the worst time of day to queue. Once 2.4 actually comes out and people get sick of arenas, it will go back to tanks always instapopping, healers waiting 5-15 minutes and dps ... will stay the same.

I disagree.

I have had both a healer and a tank at the level cap since last summer (level 50 then level 55 now). Throughout that year, there have been too many times to count where my tank had to wait as long as ten minutes and my healer insta-popped.

There is an ebb and flow or "supply and demand" between tanks and healers, but it is more consistent than you think.