Well technically Revan is dead. In-game sources has 'confirmed' this and none inside or outside universe sources have disputed this. So for all intensive purposes Revan is dead, just like Malgus and the Emperor.

When did in-game sources confirmed that again? Or was it confirmed by some developer in some interview only you had access to? If they wanted Revan to be truly dead, they would've kept the original layout from the beta days, where Revan would expire and his body would be laying on the floor; This is not the case, since it's pretty obvious that Bioware wanted to leave the door opened, in case Revan would be to return.

Concerning the Emperor, you've been proven to be wrong over and over again. Time to redefine your strategy here, because actually IGNORING what the game itself says is just silly to say the least.

When did in-game sources confirmed that again? Or was it confirmed by some developer in some interview only you had access to? If they wanted Revan to be truly dead, they would've kept the original layout from the beta days, where Revan would expire and his body would be laying on the floor; This is not the case, since it's pretty obvious that Bioware wanted to leave the door opened, in case Revan would be to return.

 

Concerning the Emperor, you've been proven to be wrong over and over again. Time to redefine your strategy here, because actually IGNORING what the game itself says is just silly to say the least.

Oh and I actually found the link to that video now, not that I expect that to change anything.

Regardless the link is here, skip to 27.00 to here about the Emperor.

I said 'confirmed' in the sense that he is referred to as dead and nobody is like 'actually, he might of survived' - more like 'he's dead, we killed him.' In my eyes that's dead until proven otherwise. I also heard that they changed his death sequence because fan complained. But *shrug* take from that what you will

Proven not to be the case, since you've been shown numerous times that the Emperor actually isn't dead in spirit but went so so far as to say that the Hand(!) and / or the game(!!!) are lying. Again, how convenient...

Oh and I actually found the link to that video now, not that I expect that to change anything.

 

Regardless the link is here, skip to 27.00 to here about the Emperor.

Did you care to listen to the rest of the podcast? Did you also care to see this before by any chance?

And I quote...

- - - -

(...) Our master is defeated in body but not in spirit. (...)

And now Hood...

(...) There's every bit of evidence to suggest this was NOT the first time the Emperor's body dies... (...)

Again, keep doing what you do so well, by ignoring what you find inconvenient and choking to death what you find convenient, afraid of actually letting it go. The way you process and / or select information to suit your own theories is actually quite amusing.

EDIT:

Another bit of info...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMb3fnR7RM#t=0m55s

How "unclear" translates into "dead" again? Ohhh yeah, it doesn't.

Proven not to be the case, since you've been shown numerous times that the Emperor actually isn't dead in spirit but went so so far as to say that the Hand(!) and / or the game(!!!) are lying. Again, how convenient...

Hands did not lie. At that point in SW storyline Emperor was trapped. JK ending happened after that...

Hands did not lie. At that point in SW storyline Emperor was trapped. JK ending happened after that...

Nice to see you took the time to read what I was referring to.

When did in-game sources confirmed that again?

Omg... what would you like? A certified letter sent to your home address, stating Revan is dead?

You played the game, didn't you? In his last words he said he is going to die and his corpse was consumed by dark energy. At this moment he is OFFICIALLY dead since the game portrayed it so. There is NO indication otherwise what-so-ever. End of discussion.

*snip*

So the idea that the Emperor has been defeated in 'body not in spirit' and that the Emperor's fate is uncertain does not dispute my stance in anyway. I infact wholly agree and accept these notions.

You played the game, didn't you? In his last words he said he is going to die and his corpse was consumed by dark energy. At this moment he is OFFICIALLY dead since the game portrayed it so. There is NO indication otherwise what-so-ever. End of discussion.

P.S. I also can't imagine them making such a massive U-turn half-way through beta.

Omg... what would you like? A certified letter sent to your home address, stating Revan is dead?

 

You played the game, didn't you? In his last words he said he is going to die and his corpse was consumed by dark energy. At this moment he is OFFICIALLY dead since the game portrayed it so. There is NO indication otherwise what-so-ever. End of discussion.

Once again, that's your opinion, not fact.

For me and most people I'd assume, given that's it's SW here, I'll assume that a character only dies when I see his dead body lying on the floor and even then, we all know that it may mean nothing at all.

Given the fact that we all see Revan vanishing in a flash, you're just clutching to an idea that is not actually there: You never actually see Revan experiencing a physical death, where his body is just charred on the floor. Period. Get over it.

It's pretty obvious for anyone with a brain that Bioware left the door opened intentionally, in case they'd want him to return, just like Malgus' original "death" was ambiguous.

Sorry but what's your point here? You seem to has spent too much time insulting me and not enough elaborating on your argument. I think your misinterpreting my stance. I hold that the true body of the Emperor was destroyed by the Jedi Knight at the end of Act 3. And that is was not just a Voice. That the Sith Emperor has experienced a bodily death. Whether his spirit is destroyed is another matter entirely, and seems highly unlikely to say the list. Most likely the Emperor is currently existing in a disembodied spiritual form.

 

So the idea that the Emperor has been defeated in 'body not in spirit' and that the Emperor's fate is uncertain does not dispute my stance in anyway. I infact wholly agree and accept these notions.

And I quote...

(...) Instead, they merely defeated the Emperor's true voice. (...) The Imperial Guard has moved the Emperor's body. (...)

As I've said numerous times in the past, you still choose to ignore info the game provides, whenever it suits your needs, even though it's actually kind fun to see you backing down a bit, when it comes to the Emperor's non-existing death.

EDIT:

Also, read the Encyclopedia or play the SW storyline, so that you may actually grasp once and for all the notion behind the "Emperor's Voice".

 

And I quote...

 

As I've said numerous times in the past, you still choose to ignore info the game provides, whenever it suits your needs, even though it's actually kind fun to see you backing down a bit, when it comes to the Emperor's non-existing death.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, read the Encyclopedia or play the SW storyline, so that you may actually grasp once and for all the notion behind the "Emperor's Voice".

Yes, this is the part were I refer you to Hall Hood who's statements directly contradicts that - "...the Emperor's body does die" and led to my theory-crafting. Something I'm afraid you are no longer able to dispute. And as far as I'm concerned out-of-universe statements are superior to character statements. Dance around it all you like but in the end there is only one way to interpret this - the Emperor's real body is dead, not his Voice. Else Hood wouldn't deliberately have made the distinction. Unless you have an alternative explanation for this?

And of course you can say, things may have changed. And I would totally accept that argument. Because in the end the Emperor fate is 'unclear'. Until verified in game his fate hangs in the balance. However the statement is at least grounds for theorising, which I'm afraid you are no longer at liberty to reject entirely. You must understand that in the end the evidence you are presenting to me is largely subjective, while mine is objective.

However what frustrates me the most is your inability to comprehend my whole argument. From the very beginning I was only arguing that the Emperor experienced a bodily death. Please bottle your over-inflated arrogance and pay attention, quoted from the very beginning of this thread:

...But like I said, he goes on to say, or at least hints, that the Emperor lives on in some sort of spiritual form. And hints that he may return. He also mentions something else interesting; he implies that this isn't the first time the Emperor's body has died. So perhaps whilst being the Emperor, it was the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th incarnation of him. Hence him not being Sith or some sort of hybrid like he is presented in Revan. Personally, I’d like to see the Emperor return in another update – the option is has certainly been left open. And Vitiate wouldn't be the first Sith to escape from Chaos...

You may find that we agree on more things than you realise, which while seemingly distasteful to you is perfectly fine for me. In fact you seem to be disagreeing with me for the sake of it right now. Really its quite petty how worked up about this you are getting. Are you incapable of agreeing with any one on any level? Or perhaps you have a personal vendetta against me because I was 'fabricating evidence' - well given recent evidence I'd hope you'd be able to drop that. Seems not. Basically, please try and be civil.

P.S. For the record I own and have read the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I've completed the Sith Warrior storyline and I've read the Revan novel, I'm afraid I fail to see your point. I'd ask you to elaborate but I don't think I want to no.

Lol, now I can accuse you of ignoring evidence as well, How ironic. At least I make an attempt to reconcile the evidence with eachother.

By stating that the Emperor's true body died, you are in fact choosing to ignore evidence in the game that suggests otherwise.

Yes, this is the part were I refer you to Hall Hood who's statements directly contradicts that - "...the Emperor's body does die" and led to my theory-crafting. Something I'm afraid you are no longer able to dispute. And as far as I'm concerned out-of-universe statements are superior to character statements. Which for the record are not officially canon. Dance around it all you like but in the end their is only one way to interpret this - the Emperor's real body is dead, not his Voice. Else Hood wouldn't deliberately have made the distinction. Unless you have an alternative explanation for this?

The fact remains that I believe you are taking his wording out of context.

From listening to the podcast, it's fairly obvious that Hall Hood is not trying to give away much, when it comes to info pertaining to the game's direction but he does go so far as to say that the Emperor experiencing a bodily death in the JK finale would not be the first time. However, one can easily assume this is a reference to the death of one of his Voices, as seen in the SW and JK storyline.

You, for whatever reason, seem to ignore what is logical and start grasping at straws, going so far as to say - in the past at least - that the Emperor's Hand was lying. I find that LOL worthy to be honest.

And no, I feel that info given in-game is actually more relevant than the one given for a writer, especially one who wasn't responsable for every single storyline in the game. It should also be noted that Hall Hood messed up this one time, when it comes to info concerning the Imperial Agent storyline, one where he had no bearing whatsoever if I understand correctly.

And of course you can say, things may have changed. And I would totally accept that argument. Because in the end the Emperor fate is 'unclear'. Until verified in game his fate hangs in the balance. However the statement is at least grounds for theorising, which I'm afraid you are no longer at liberty to reject entirely. You must understand that in the end the evidence you are presenting to me is largely subjective, while mine is objective.

So the evidence I present, taken from the game, is subjective, while yours, based on a podcast, is actually objective? You got to be joking for sure.

However what frustrates me the most is your inability to comprehend my whole argument. From the very beginning I was only arguing that the Emperor experienced a bodily death. Please bottle your over-inflated arrogance and pay attention, quoted from the very beginning of this thread:

What I find far more puzzling, not to say paradoxical, is the fact you've been proven wrong and you're now trying to sidestep from that, really. Simple...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=627297&page=2

Clicking on the above link, there are numerous instances were you defended that the Emperor not only experienced a bodily death, but an actual permanent death, as in, NOT coming back. Such has been proven false numerous times since then.

You seem to be disagreeing with me for the sake of it right now. Really its quite petty how worked up about this you are getting. Are you incapable of agreeing with any one on any level? Or perhpas you have a personal vendetta against me because I was 'fabricating evidence' - well given recent evidence I'd hope you'd be able to drop that. Seems not.

First of all, I'm not exactly getting worked up, since I have no need to, not to mention I don't have or feel the need to actually question at every turn the info the game provides. That would be your case, surely not mine.

Also, your recent evidence doesn't supercede the in-game information, like I mentioned already. I won't even go around the Vendetta stuff, since it sounds kinda silly really... This is an argument about a game, in case you failed to notice.

P.S. For the record I own and have read the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I've completed the Sith Warrior storyline and I've read the Revan novel, I'm afraid I fail to see your point.

Then if you did, I find it a bit puzzling that you're unable to grasp the function behind the Emperor's Voice and why it is silly to assume that the Emperor's true body would've died in the confrontation with the Jedi Knight, not to mention...

That the Emperor's Hand states that the Emperor's body was moved to a safe location by the Imperial Guard.

Once again, that's your opinion, not fact.

 

For me and most people I'd assume, given that's it's SW here, I'll assume that a character only dies when I see his dead body lying on the floor and even then, we all know that it may mean nothing at all.

 

Given the fact that we all see Revan vanishing in a flash, you're just clutching to an idea that is not actually there: You never actually see Revan experiencing a physical death, where his body is just charred on the floor. Period. Get over it.

No, as of now, that is a fact. Given this is SW, you can look in the "bible of SW" (ie original trilogy) where Obi-wan's and Yoda's physical deaths caused their bodies to disappear. In case of Revan it is even more illustrative, since his body is devoured by the energy, much like it would be evaporated by the immense heat.

I mean you can delude yourself but it won't change anything. As of current state, Revan is physically dead. Get over it.

But I am fully aware that they are capable of bringing him back to rehash the whole thing over and over again. If they do something as stupid and unoriginal as that, I will uninstall the game and simply ignore it from that point on. I have a very low tolerance for ridiculous stuff.

Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.

Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

 

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.

Well thank you for reminding me that Revan's storyline in TOR is one huge pile of crap and is not even worth arguing about.

Revan went to the Unknown Regions and anything beyond that should be a mystery. They should have left it alone altogether.

The fact remains that I believe you are taking his wording out of context.

And really, the direction of game is going seems to indicate this is the case. The Emperor has not yet returned, the Dark Council and the Republic believe he is dead, even the Emperor's Wrath says he's dead in body, but not in spirit. Noting that if it was a Voice, he would not be dead in body. Unless of course, his true body no longer exists.

Also, you don't seem to being understanding the distinction between in-game statements and out-of-game statements. In game statements are interpretable, they take the form of opinion, and are subject to character fallacies, traits etc. The Jedi Council in KOTOR lied to the player about his identity for example. Out-of-universe quotes should be taken as objective, the whole canon system revolves around sourcebooks, George Lucas statements etc. When a statement is made by a writer from BioWare, we should not believe that he is lying, as ulterior motives etc.

And finally, again, I find it bizarre how radically you have misinterpreted me. When my opinion was clearly stated in the opening post. When I said the Emperor is dead I meant bodily death, I never said he died completely and infact speculated his return. This was my opinion from the start and is clearly evident from the very first post in the thread. You have misunderstood my words, plain and simple. My apologies if I mislead you.

P.S. I'd also point out that along with being the Lead Writer, Hall Hood is also the writer of the Jedi Knight story. His word should be taken as gospel in relation to the topic.

I mean I know some stupid writer can always come with some idiotic idea to bring dead character back but, as of this moment, he is dead.

*cough Boba Fett *cough*

Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

 

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.

There is only ONE person who knows Darth Malaks final words. Those words are echoed by Revan prior to being consumed. There is no doubt the Revan in that battle is THE Revan.

As people mentioned repeatedly in this thread, it was just an homage and / or reference to what Malak says, in his dying breath, at the end of KoTOR. Not exactly proof that he kicked the bucket or anything...

i think hes dead.

now weather his spirit has departed is another thing.

Tupac ain't really dead and gone.

I think Revan could stand to return in a later flashpoint, perhaps tied in someway with the fate/return of the emperor. The two characters contrast each other very well, both antagonistic in their relation to the players (Revan trying to genocide the empire, emperor trying to do the same to the Galaxy) and the canon has duscussed how much of the emperors preparation are done solely because he fears Revan, and Vice versa. They form a sort of unofficial factional symbolism (Well emperor may be official, but seeing as no one in the empire ever meets him, he's kind of got a mystique not unlike Revan to the republic)

I know this has probably been posted before, but Drew Karpyshyn said bioware designed the end of 'the foundry' so they could bring Revan back in the future.

http://lorefreak.blogspot.com/2012/02/exlusive-interview-with-drew-karpyshyn.html

That said if they did bring Revan back in a very clever way I'd expect I'd be all over it anyway.

Well that's very interesting, and confirms the idea circulating around the forum that they did it to leave the door open for Revan's return. Though if I were to choose a side I'd stick with Revan being dead, it makes the most sense and in all honesty I think Revan's story is over.

 

That said if they did bring Revan back in a very clever way I'd expect I'd be all over it anyway.

It's all semantics at this point anyway, either he's brought back in future content (and if the game lives long enough, I guarantee he will, but the game may not make it that long) or he's effectively dead. Even if he's effectively dead, we can all tell it was done in a way that he can be "resurrected" by the developers at anytime.