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Forget about new classes . . .


nocaps

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All "New Classes" threads eventually concede that getting new classes in the game is a pipe dream because of the monumental amount of work it would take to script and voice entirely new Class Stories, but there is still a chance to see new "classes" . . . Advanced Classes!

 

New Advanced Classes added to the current 8 classes wouldn't need new Class Stories, they'd go through the same ones the other 2 Advanced Classes share.

 

So, here's my ideas . . .

 

Jedi Avenger - a Double Bladed Sabre using Jedi Knight ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Sith Destroyer - a Double Bladed Sabre using Sith Warrior ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Jedi Archon - a Dual Wielding Jedi Consular ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Sith Harbinger - a Dual Wielding Sith Inquisitor ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Squad Leader - a pistol using Trooper ... Heavy Armor heal and dps trees.

Ranger - a rifle using Bounty Hunter ... Heavy Armor tank and dps trees.

Scout - a rifle using Smuggler ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Fixer - a pistol using Imperial Agent ... Medium Armor heal and dps trees.

 

EDIT: my post isn't so much about actual new advanced class ideas so much as it's about "how do we get new classes introduced" . . . anyways made a couple tweaks to my ideas.

Edited by nocaps
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<---MIND BLOWN

 

This is like the ..... the most intelligent thing I've seen on this forum ever.....

 

It's that simple.... They add new mechanics around the existing abilities using the AC class skills, the tech tree talents, & the new active abilities...

 

SWEEEEEET IDEA!!!

 

May I sugggest.......

Jedi Harbinger

Sith Avenger

Squad Leader - a pistol weilding Trooper with group buffing abilities.

Ranger - a autocannon using Bounty Hunter with various CC options.

Edited by Cleet_Xia
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What would entice me to play another class is not a collection of new abilities and invisible stats, but the story.

New classes aren't a pipe-dream. Not quite yet at least. However, if we want to even dream of ever being able to see them, Bioware HAS to stop churning out additional content and start focusing on the existing one. That's why the post I have linked on my sig. is so brilliant, that guy understood this (among other things) about the game.

Edited by Machine-Elf
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Well the idea's not bad, but I see some problems:

Naming:

Jedi Avenger - a Double Bladed Sabre using Jedi Knight.
You could use it for a Sith maybe, but not for a Jedi. There is no "vengeance" in the Jedi Order

Ranger - a melee weapon using Bounty Hunter
If he's using melee weapons then how come he's a ranger?

 

Gameplay balancing:

Squad Leader - a melee weapon using Trooper with group buffing abilities.

Ranger - a melee weapon using Bounty Hunter with various CC options.

Don't buffs already affect everyone in the group?

Also trooper and bounty hunter are mirrors, so either they both are "group buffers" or they both are "ccers".

Edited by Aelther
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<---MIND BLOWN

 

This is like the ..... the most intelligent thing I've seen on this forum ever.....

 

It's that simple.... They add new mechanics around the existing abilities using the AC class skills, the tech tree talents, & the new active abilities...

 

SWEEEEEET IDEA!!!

 

May I sugggest.......

Jedi Harbinger

Sith Avenger

Squad Leader - a pistol weilding Trooper with group buffing abilities.

Ranger - a autocannon using Bounty Hunter with various CC options.

I'd actually suggest giving the Squad Leader a sniper rifle, which would make some sense, so he could be a few meters behind his troops giving orders and have a better overview of what's happening.

I'd like to see an Imperial autocannon user as well, so I agree on the Ranger.

These two weapons are simply too much under-used by players. It's even pointless for Armstechers to make them, unless they are of the specific class that uses them.

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Advaced classes now gives a unique feeling with every little detail from equipment they use ( light/medium armor , double bladed light saber ) to their shared skill tree use between 2 different concept ( madness assasin/sorc ). If they add one more advance class to each classes there is goning to be 1 more adv. class using a shared tree. Therefore they should prefer to create a brand new class with 2 brand new advanced class each.
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I'd actually suggest giving the Squad Leader a sniper rifle, which would make some sense, so he could be a few meters behind his troops giving orders and have a better overview of what's happening.
Squad leaders aren't commanders and are WITH their squad fighting. Using a sniper rifle (realistically) puts you more than just a few meters away. The only communication you'd have with your unit would be via comms.

 

I actually like the idea of a BH using an assault rifle. I can't stand the heavy armor and only pistol use.

Edited by Couver
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They can barey come up with enough skills to fill all the trees for all the basic and advanced classes as it is. PvP is imbalanced, probably inrreparably, and all the imp and rep classes mirror each other any way. They're probably stretching the limit introducing "new skills" with Makeb's ridiculous level cap increase, and we don't have any idea what their awsome/suck ratio is going to be yet.

 

Improved gameplay (bug fixes), addtional species, extended quest lines and a lot more playable content.... that's what we need, not new classes/advanced classes/skill trees in the existion advance classes.

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I'd actually suggest giving the Squad Leader a sniper rifle, which would make some sense, so he could be a few meters behind his troops giving orders and have a better overview of what's happening.

I'd like to see an Imperial autocannon user as well, so I agree on the Ranger.

These two weapons are simply too much under-used by players. It's even pointless for Armstechers to make them, unless they are of the specific class that uses them.

 

My first thought was , "SNIPER RIFLE !!" too - but a pistol is an officer's weapon so it feels like a better fit. They can replace the stock strike animation with the smuggler pistol whip , and it would be GTG. And the "officer" AC would actually fit the trooper class story better. There are cutscenes everywhere showing the trooper toon with a side arm - that you're not carrying. Give the AC another heal spec, a buff spec, and a grenadier dps spec.

 

The auto cannon just screams BH though. I understand that each faction got 1 unique main hand and off hand weapon. But who cares really? I don't even play Imp side, and I wouldn't mind if Imps got autocannons. There are mobs all over the game that sport them. It would be cool. give them a tank spec, a debuff spec, and dps spec.

 

Yes I realize those specs are just oposit - but that's the fastest way to add some real flavor. Make these 2 balance each other, and be the most effective way to combat the other.

 

I really like the idea of melee weapon AC for Trooper/ BH - but I don't see how they could do that when the base class abilities involve blaster fire.

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New Advanced Classes added to the current 8 classes wouldn't need new Class Stories, they'd go through the same ones the other 2 Advanced Classes share.

 

Good idea, except

 

a) They'd have to allow people to move freely between advanced classes whenever they want - which I'm pretty sure they really don't want.

b) They'd face a storm of complaints from people calling them too lazy or too cheap to create new class stories.

c) If they didn't allow advanced class respec and decided that they'd just have to live with all the QQing, there would have to be an option to get an insta-55 character - because, let's face it, no matter how much fun leveling is, no one really wants to go through the grind again and again.

 

But most importantly, they'd be giving up their biggest asset: class stories.

It's the single most important thing in Swtor and what sets it apart from other MMOs. Without them, Swtor just isn't Swtor. And quite a lot of people would rather wait for a proper class with a new story than simply get the animations of other classes on their own class.

 

I still think that new classes are very much a probability and the best way to move forward. A solution like the one you're proposing might've worked for a less story-based MMO, but it's not for Swtor...

 

Of course, I'm not expecting 3-4 new classes. When the proper expansion comes, it will be 1 or 2 classes tops.

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All "New Classes" threads eventually concede that getting new classes in the game is a pipe dream because of the monumental amount of work it would take to script and voice entirely new Class Stories, but there is still a chance to see new "classes" . . . Advanced Classes!

 

New Advanced Classes added to the current 8 classes wouldn't need new Class Stories, they'd go through the same ones the other 2 Advanced Classes share.

 

So, here's my ideas . . .

 

Jedi Avenger - a Double Bladed Sabre using Jedi Knight ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Sith Destroyer - a Double Bladed Sabre using Sith Warrior ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Jedi Archon - a Dual Wielding Jedi Consular ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Sith Harbinger - a Dual Wielding Sith Inquisitor ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Squad Leader - a pistol using Trooper ... Heavy Armor heal and dps trees.

Ranger - a rifle using Bounty Hunter ... Heavy Armor tank and dps trees.

Scout - a rifle using Smuggler ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Fixer - a pistol using Imperial Agent ... Medium Armor heal and dps trees.

 

EDIT: my post isn't so much about actual new advanced class ideas so much as it's about "how do we get new classes introduced" . . . anyways made a couple tweaks to my ideas.

 

excellent idea man, I mean this has got to be the best post on this site all year seriously i am on board with this idea, because if they do not introduce new classes/new advanced classes, this game will eventually fall beyond what is has now because it is getting very stale to me as it is, I have actually moved on to another game because the grind for gear is old. Thats all there is to do now.

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All "New Classes" threads eventually concede that getting new classes in the game is a pipe dream because of the monumental amount of work it would take to script and voice entirely new Class Stories, but there is still a chance to see new "classes" . . . Advanced Classes!

 

New Advanced Classes added to the current 8 classes wouldn't need new Class Stories, they'd go through the same ones the other 2 Advanced Classes share.

 

So, here's my ideas . . .

 

Jedi Avenger - a Double Bladed Sabre using Jedi Knight ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Sith Destroyer - a Double Bladed Sabre using Sith Warrior ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Jedi Archon - a Dual Wielding Jedi Consular ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Sith Harbinger - a Dual Wielding Sith Inquisitor ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.

Squad Leader - a pistol using Trooper ... Heavy Armor heal and dps trees.

Ranger - a rifle using Bounty Hunter ... Heavy Armor tank and dps trees.

Scout - a rifle using Smuggler ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.

Fixer - a pistol using Imperial Agent ... Medium Armor heal and dps trees.

 

EDIT: my post isn't so much about actual new advanced class ideas so much as it's about "how do we get new classes introduced" . . . anyways made a couple tweaks to my ideas.

 

As someone else pointed out, while this is a cool idea, no one here wants to go through the same class story a third time. It gets old after a while, and it starts to just get really tedious. The level grind on the planet stories is already annoying enough, since those quests never change, and I'm going through my second Warrior right now, but it's just the same story again and again. I would much rather have new classes.

 

Another issue is that all the AC's are mirrors of each other, Mercenary/Commando are basically the same class just with different ability names. And your idea changes up the mirror, which means that they'd have to develop new abilities to make those AC's different, which I doubt they'd do. So Squad Leader/Ranger would have to mirror one another, and so would Scout/Fixer.

 

Now, that's not to say I don't approve of the idea, I do, I would love to see a bit more variety in the Advanced Class options, the game could use a bit more diversity. Wandering around the Imperial fleet and seeing nothing but the Jugg shield over everyone's head is getting annoying.

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Good idea, except

 

a) They'd have to allow people to move freely between advanced classes whenever they want - which I'm pretty sure they really don't want. Ummm... Why again would they have to do that?

b) They'd face a storm of complaints from people calling them too lazy or too cheap to create new class stories.

That's been going on since launch about everything they've done ~ nothing new about this ~ and I don't think anyone expects this to ever change. But these new ACs would actually fix something that people have complained about. "Why can't I use a ______ on my such and such class?"

c) If they didn't allow advanced class respec and decided that they'd just have to live with all the QQing, there would have to be an option to get an insta-55 character - because, let's face it, no matter how much fun leveling is, no one really wants to go through the grind again and again.

Then Dont - Buy exp unlocks - do 4/5 class missions a planet, solo the heroics, unlock the bonus series on Nar Shadaa, Tatooine, & Alderan. And skip everything else but the class story all the way to level 47 by Ilum.

 

But most importantly, they'd be giving up their biggest asset: class stories.

They already did that when they went F2P

It's the single most important thing in Swtor and what sets it apart from other MMOs. Without them, Swtor just isn't Swtor. And quite a lot of people would rather wait for a proper class with a new story than simply get the animations of other classes on their own class.

Not even talking about more than 2 new animations per AC - the game already reuses animations between the classes, so we're talking about a handful of new animations.

I still think that new classes are very much a probability and the best way to move forward. A solution like the one you're proposing might've worked for a less story-based MMO, but it's not for Swtor...

 

Of course, I'm not expecting 3-4 new classes. When the proper expansion comes, it will be 1 or 2 classes tops. This is reasonable, 1-2 classes ~ if ever ~ should be all anyone expects out of a full expansion. VO shot this game in the butt, because it makes it a nightmare to add new classes to the game. New class dialog would have to be added for every FP, OP, new class mission, and maybe even some of the planet missions. Don't forget, whole new classes also require 10 new companions a piece. That by itself would be expenssive.

So, you are assuming that these new ACs would only be played as alts, and that none of them might be interesting to a new player?

 

How many new animations did the HK -51 comp require? What about using animations from mobs that are not being used by players yet?

 

Artwork for tech trees is dirt cheap, the backgrounds are recycled, and so are most of the icons. This would require almost no further artwork be added to the game. The shared tress are already there.

 

They wouldn't be starting from scratch on these new ACs because they still have to support the basic sets of class passive & active abilities. The'y'd have to make changes to the AC/class trainers, and a few buttons to click for training the 16 new spec abilites. But those trainers have the same menu throughout the game, it's a less complicated change than when they added the dreadgaurd/ hazmat venders.

 

It would probably take them longer to playtest the new ACs than it would for them to actually create them.

 

I see nothing wrong with adding any option, especially if it is a cheap option ~ that makes it a LOT more likely to happen..

 

On a side note... has anyone else looted a piece of cunning gear with tanking secondary stats on it? Maybe we could get some toons that actually use those drops.

 

**EDIT - It's 10 new companions per class added to the game (5 for each faction) **

Edited by Cleet_Xia
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<---MIND BLOWN

QFT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I love the ideas, and Cleet_Xia, I like your ideas as well. It would be cool, but as others said, it would be a lazy solution. But if they added them, and more class stories....:D:D:D

 

Any comment from the devs about what an amazing idea this is and that they will implement immediately? I take silence as a sign of how hard your working to implement it, just so you know:p

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Ummm... Why again would they have to do that?

 

Because such an addition would only make sense if it were appealing to both old and new players, even more so to old players because new players have 8 stories to go through before feeling that they've seen all the game has to offer story-wise. If you keep the class stories the same for new classes, people who have already got their toons to 55s will have no reason to level a new one and go through the same things again, especially if you've already been through a class story twice just to see the other side of the coin. And seeing how this whole thing would require A LOT of resources, we can safely say that there wouldn't be much new content coming out for old players during the production of these new adv. classes.

 

Then Dont - Buy exp unlocks - do 4/5 class missions a planet, solo the heroics, unlock the bonus series on Nar Shadaa, Tatooine, & Alderan. And skip everything else but the class story all the way to level 47 by Ilum.

 

...or just pvp to 55. Or do only FPs to 55.

But that's not the point. The point is that people will (and quite understandably so) say that they don't want to go through all that again. I like leveling alts and you might too, but not everyone does. Grinding for gear, doing the same quests again (albeit from a slightly different perspective) or the same fps again and again is not for everyone. When you plan something as big as new adv. classes you can't just say "ah, people will just roll alts if they want them". You have to take into consideration that a lot of people just don't feel like doing the same things all over again just because this time you'll have 2 lightsabers instead of one. And you want to keep those people, you don't to invest time and manpower to develop something that will ultimately displease your fanbase - especially since that fanbase is extremely...ahm... let's go with... volatile :D

 

They already did that when they went F2P

 

No, they didn't. Going F2P means that it might take longer to produce new class stories or the continuation of the existing ones, but never have they said that class stories are dead. Just because Makeb doesn't have new class stories doesn't mean they're dead and it would be stupid of them to just confirm what haters are saying ("the best thing about Swtor is dead").

 

Not even talking about more than 2 new animations per AC - the game already reuses animations between the classes, so we're talking about a handful of new animations.

 

Ah, but you see that was acceptable when the game was shiny and new. A few animations looking similar was OK. Can you imagine people's reactions when they roll a new Sith Avenger (or whatever the OP called them) that's essentially a Marauder with a bit of lightning here and there?

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I have this concept for a class called the Sith Desponder.

 

Personally I would love to see class that is akin to the sith sorcerer, but the catch is that they induce attacks via melee combat that cause some kind of illusion / visual throw off on the player when hit, unique blurs, and slows that attacks that don't slow down the movement of the target, but rather their reaction to avoiding attacks temporarily etc.. No bleed effects, but effects that leave opponents scared by the dark side of the force over time spent as they fight. mixed with unique single saber acrobatic skills that are similar to starkiller for example - minus the way he holds his saber. This melee style makes up for lacking actual defensive buffs. As this type of class wouldn't be an over the top damage dealer, That's a Mara's job. This class would be seen as force / melee skilled disruptor, meant to torment / hurt both the mind and body.

 

The defense is also in how they use the force to effect the target during combat. Forward, but not quite like the force classes we know. The kind that preys on your mind as well as your ability to fight him. A strong will can overcome the despair that this sith can inflect, and if that is achieved this type of sith is in trouble, but it won't be easy to do so..

 

Not sure which armor type, but it's between medium and light armor. I have skill list that I am working on, but since it's a idea / dream class. I'd only share it if asked out of pure interest.

Edited by Aizen
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I wouldn´t forget about new classes. If they ever make an expansion it could happen(refuse to call Makeb an expansion). Let´s dream on. If it was done like Blizzard did with deathknights story wouldn´t be that big a deal. Make this new class start at level 45 and get one shared planet for both factions. You play through this class story and at the end of it at level 48ish you choose faction.

 

It would be a sorry excuse for a class story with only one planet but if were ever to get a new class this would be the cheap way of dooing it.

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OP what a good post ;D. I really like your ideas.

 

I'm afraid though that we are not going to get anymore class stories sadly ;(. Once we have got thru all the content that they had on the drawing board (I think I read somewhere with the old time table it was a year, I think Erickson said it-correct me if I'm wrong) I'm afraid that it will be maintenance mode from there on out.

 

The story is the best thing about this game too. /pout

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I wouldn't call them volatile... I'd call them melodramatic brats. No matter what happens, every week, the forum is flooded with complaints about any and every scrap of info that can be gleaned from the patch notes/ dev tracker/ pod cast/ cartel shop/ ..... it doesn't matter what they do, or who said what. The forum will not be appeased.

 

I agree, it would be an incredibly lazy way to add content to the game. But that is what makes it such a brillliant idea. It adds a lot of variation at little cost. If people want to get mad that they added something to the game... that's messed up. They don't have to play it. But I've been playing this game since launch, and there are not too many of us left from way back then. The fresh variation in play might actually bring some people back. I can't even remember all of my class story from my main anymore ~ wouldn't bother me one bit to play through again ~ it was a good story. And they gave away all of the existing story with F2P. I do hope there is more in the future. But I don't see how adding these AC's would prevent more class story, or more classes from being added in the future.

 

Here's another way to look at it...

 

What has to be added to introduce a new class with 2 ACs & a mirror class into the game?

1) about 54 abilities with 108 animations < many are utilities like interrupts, cc, kb, stun, mana regen, basic heals, etc

2) roughly 64 - 80 class missions per faction

3) a class buff (or rip off a class' unique buff - that's fair - players will love that, nobody will be mad)

4) a whole new main stat & gear to go with it at all levels - modify all loot tables/ comm, weapon, mod, & armor venders

5) 10 companions with approx 40 companion conversations & 6 companion missions (about 46 cutscenes)

6) 6-8 class mission instances on every planet + maybe 4 out in space somewheres (100 - 132 in total)

7) cutscenes for every class mission (100 - 132 at least ~ many missions have multiples)

8) loot tables for every class mission (100 - 132 in total) (not going to count the special loot tables for the dailes)

9) a crapton of VO work, part of which has to somehow be shoehorned into the existing multiplayer content

10) a whole new floor to the fleets just for their ship instance

11) PvE & PvP venders

12) class trainers on every planet

13) a major overhaul to the legacy UI to include the new class

14) mods to the character creation UI

+ a mega-massive number of bugs from the extensive mods to the existing worlds

 

What do we get by adding 1 class + mirror?

1) 2 class stories

2) 10 tech trees (12 but 4 are the shared trees)

3) about 32 actual new active abilites that do something cool

4) a 25% increase in the number of AC options

 

~VS~

 

What do we get by adding 8 ACs?

1) a 50% increase in the number of AC options

2) at least 32 new active abilites that do something cool

3) 16 new tech trees (24 - but 8 are shared trees)

4) interesting gear options

 

Recap...What is required to add 8 ACs to the existing classes?

1) create 32 new abilities with 32 animations < - this would completely remake PVP btw

2) modify animations for perhaps 48 more abilities (roughly 80 new animations in total)

3) add gear to the PvP & PvE venders for spec choices that didn't previosly exist ( e.g.medium armor tank gear)

4) modify the loot tables for the FPs & OPs

5) add a few weapons to loot tables, weapon/comm venders (saberstaffs w/str mods, offhand sabers w/wp, cunning blaster rifles)

6) modify menus for for the AC & class trainers

 

Just let that soak for a little bit......

 

Less animation work - for the same amount of truely new active abilities

no new story content - but more 60% more new tech trees

a WHOLE LOT LESS work. - even if they did 108 new ability animations.

 

I don't doubt they could add a new starter planet with a continent for each faction, and make new class stories happen. Because most of the planet mission VO seems to have a vanilla mode, and just a special bit for one specific class every so often. The play VO that is in the FPs is actually pretty limited except for the Esseles & BT. So they could do it. But I'm just looking at those lists... and.. which do you think has any chance of happening in the next 12 months? 8 AC's would probably be less work in dev than a new Operation.

Edited by Cleet_Xia
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