I don't see a problem with gear check simply because Basic gear/mods are easily obtainable through dailies and the GTN. I almost had a full set when I finished Makeb and I think I did complete it within a day or 2 after. I could be wrong on this, but I think the group finder says the minimum requirement for gear for 55 HMs is 146 or 148 rating? With Basic gear, I'm pretty sure that puts you at or around 156. Either way, being a tank who has experienced the GF with well undergeared players, I don't see what the big deal would be.

Gear check was refused when the game was hardcore friendly at launch.

 

I would expect that now that it is moving in a casual friendly direction the LAST thing they would do is add a gear check.

 

You might as well ask for rated arenas, corpse runs and permadeath. Those days seem to be long gone.

 

I just wish there was some way to have an external system, like an armory, that could display our gear and accomplishments at least...that way we could get an idea for premades.

 

The only real solution here is to run with premades. PUGs are death in almost every game, gear check or not.

Edited July 7, 2013 by LordArtemis

I don't see a problem with gear check simply because Basic gear/mods are easily obtainable through dailies and the GTN. I almost had a full set when I finished Makeb and I think I did complete it within a day or 2 after. I could be wrong on this, but I think the group finder says the minimum requirement for gear for 55 HMs is 146 or 148 rating? With Basic gear, I'm pretty sure that puts you at or around 156. Either way, being a tank who has experienced the GF with well undergeared players, I don't see what the big deal would be.

 

Ya, its easy enough to do by several different methods, but the matter at hand is really revolving around enforcing it, and the utility of its enforcement in the first place.

 

Either the gearscore rating will be too high to be entirely sensible or it will be more relaxed, and thus nearly entirely worthless to its own purpose, because I don't think many and numerous people are so daft as to not seek better gear in this game.

 

Those that roam into a 55HM with gear made for 38-44th level? I think we're seeing a very specific sort of stupid when we see that, not incident or accident.

 

And that's not the sort of stupid a patch-fix can help. It really just isn't. Now for another reality: Bioware can only do so many things in a timeframe's window. Only so much budget and manpower.

 

Do we honestly want this on that list when it can't cure the problem, but might well start some obnoxious ones WoW's already tested the waters adequately on to predict outcomes for with clarity?

 

This isn't a patching issue. This is a community issue. Teach your people how to FP better and they'll suck less.

You can't teach those unwilling to learn.

 

Teacher/Student relationships require a modicum of mutual respect and trust (key word there is "mutual"). The predominant attitude I'm seeing here is contempt.

 

Contempt tends to break such relationships. Particularly when it's mutual.

 

And mind you, I'm not saying absolutely everyone is capable of being a good student or even a good teacher, but the prevailing attitude from most MMO players tends to be that they're here to play, not to spend time in the classroom, and the predisposed bent- among both prospective students and teachers- is that "it's not my job to spend time socializing with you, let alone teaching or listening to you".

 

This is compounded by the most common ways that such learning gaps tend to get brought up, i.e. ...

 

You are bad and you should feel bad!

 

...or...

 

Don't you tell me how to play!

 

People are often adversarial to begin with. And no, it doesn't foster trust or respect. Learning suffers as a result.

If gear check isn't doable, I would at least make the armor rating requirement easily visible. Right now you have to hover over the head of the flashpoint list, and read a small wall of text to find out what the armor rating is. Most people just starting have no idea this is even there. If they put in 55 Hard Mode Flashpoint (Armor Rating: xxx) right at the top, it might help out some.

 

I find myself agreeing with this or a solution in this direction. When we enter a flashpoint we get an automated warning that a full group is recommended, when we enter an op we get a warning, we get so many pop ups in this game warning us about this or that, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to implement some sort of (unhidden) notification into the process of queuing for HM FPs.

 

 

People that conceptually understand armor rating don't go to 55's in 40 something blues. The selfish people we are talking about don't even understand what they are doing to the group and how other people's time is being wasted.

 

While that is true, people who have no idea about the concept don't even get the idea to ask or read up when it's not pushed in their face at some point. Sure, being vote kicked should give them the idea, too, but a notification ahead of queueing would be an over all nicer and gentler way and save the rest of the group the time to re-queue.

 

And that's not the sort of stupid a patch-fix can help. It really just isn't. Now for another reality: Bioware can only do so many things in a timeframe's window. Only so much budget and manpower.

 

This isn't a patching issue. This is a community issue. Teach your people how to FP better and they'll suck less.

 

Teach people how to do flashpoints and tactics isn't my problem, it never was.

 

Again, i'm talking about people dying in trash because of lack of proper armoring rating and damage output, on a grevious level of under-gear.

 

People can school all they want but if they lack the rating gear to stay alive and to avoid enrage timers, it all goes down to the *******, no matter how much of a swift learner the said PUG is.

Teach people how to do flashpoints and tactics isn't my problem, it never was.

 

Again, i'm talking about people dying in trash because of lack of proper armoring rating and damage output, on a grevious level of under-gear.

 

What about teaching people the value of gear?

What about teaching people the value of gear?

 

Not exactly much can be done about it once in the flashpoint itself...?

 

Unless you're suggesting me to start crafting the armorings for people into said FP ?

Ya, its easy enough to do by several different methods, but the matter at hand is really revolving around enforcing it, and the utility of its enforcement in the first place.

 

Either the gearscore rating will be too high to be entirely sensible or it will be more relaxed, and thus nearly entirely worthless to its own purpose, because I don't think many and numerous people are so daft as to not seek better gear in this game.

 

Those that roam into a 55HM with gear made for 38-44th level? I think we're seeing a very specific sort of stupid when we see that, not incident or accident.

 

And that's not the sort of stupid a patch-fix can help. It really just isn't. Now for another reality: Bioware can only do so many things in a timeframe's window. Only so much budget and manpower.

 

Do we honestly want this on that list when it can't cure the problem, but might well start some obnoxious ones WoW's already tested the waters adequately on to predict outcomes for with clarity?

 

This isn't a patching issue. This is a community issue. Teach your people how to FP better and they'll suck less.

 

I understand your point but I think the best way to do it would be the simplest way. You need to be level 55 in order to even queue for 55 HMs, right? Why not additionally, also have to have a gear rating of 148 (which is stated in the mission tracker for the weekly)? Once you reach the gear rating, which we already agreed was easy enough to do through dailies and GTN, then you can queue for 55 HMs.

 

For the people saying they want to run their guild mates through in order to gear them up quicker, simply don't use the group finder. Get in a group of your 4 guild mates and walk through the flash point entrance to do it.

 

Implementation is not that hard, and it gives the player another milestone to reach which would make them feel a sense of accomplishment and "readiness".

 

"Teach your people how to FP better and they'll suck less". Yes & no. I mean, obviously a good player who can listen to instructions if they're unfamiliar with the FP, can make up for being slightly undergeared. However, this is not the player that is in question here and let's face it, not the player that we typically run into in GF. I don't see the harm in preventing a ridiculously undergeared player from queuing in 55 HMs. Coming full circle here, it would be like preventing pre 55's from queuing the 55 HMs, which obviously, is currently the case.

Unless you're suggesting me to start crafting the armorings for people into said FP ?

 

No. I'm suggesting that not everyone plays the game with a spreadsheet open, nor do they comprehend the math behind what makes a piece of gear "appropriate".

 

As far as they're concerned, the flashpoint is 55, they're 55, so they can do it. Without this piece of understanding, you may as well be teaching quantum physics to third graders.

No. I'm suggesting that not everyone plays the game with a spreadsheet open, nor do they comprehend the math behind what makes a piece of gear "appropriate".

 

As far as they're concerned, the flashpoint is 55, they're 55, so they can do it. Without this piece of understanding, you may as well be teaching quantum physics to third graders.

 

Spreadsheet? nah man I'm not that deep in here.

 

FPs asks for a rating. In the equipment tab every single armor and weapon slot says it's item's rating on the beginning of the stats.

 

No spreadsheets nor complex maths needed, just a " check " to be made.

 

And, evidently, and, unfortunately, people are failing and/or avoiding to do said check.

 

Hence my reluctant request for this gear check. I'm not one for shutting people out of stuff, but since people can't be reasonable for themselves, someone ( or something ) has got to do said reasoning for them

Hence my reluctant request for this gear check. I'm not one for shutting people out of stuff, but since people can't be reasonable for themselves, someone ( or something ) has got to do said reasoning for them

 

Reasoning requires an understanding of what it is you're reasoning about. Else no one sees the value of it- as I've already suggested- because they lack even a basic understanding of why they shouldn't be doing the flashpoint in the gear they're wearing. All they know is you're telling them they can't, end of story.

 

A check is just that- it bars people. No reasoning or understanding is required, nor gained by implementing it. As Urare suggested, people internalizing this understanding would be a far, far better choice for the community as a whole.

 

You seem to have forsaken any hope for that. My condolences.

A check is just that- it bars people. No reasoning or understanding is required, nor gained by implementing it. As Urare suggested, people internalizing this understanding would be a far, far better choice for the community as a whole.

 

You seem to have forsaken any hope for that. My condolences.

 

How do you imagine "the community teaching"? Posting an explanation in gen chat every 30 minutes? We don't know who knows and who doesn't. The server communities are big an anonymous.

 

A gear check that denies people to queue with a simple pop up saying "Your armor rating is not high enough." or whatever else to that effect would people point toward the problem and give them the option to specifically ask about it, at which point the community can start teaching, aimed at those who want/need it.

 

It doesn't even have to be a check that denies queue, it could be a check that just states "Be aware that for this content a certain level of gear is recommended/required." Whatever it is, just something that raises awareness in the unaware before they queue would be nice.

Edited July 7, 2013 by KyaniteD

I would have to agree with the OP! EAWare you have to do something about this issue. As someone who has been on both sides of the spectrum, I can say it was bad to accidentally be placed in a lvl 55 run that I was way under geared for. I did not realize I was in a difficulty that required gear rating I was nowhere near, and felt bad for the group when I failed on the first mob and had to leave the group as the main tank.

 

Since them, I paid close attention to the gear requirements and de-selected the runs I was not geared for, however there are many noobs that do not know how to the above and get thrown into a group just to be the weak link. Additionally, you can’t trust the players to de-select the runs they are not geared for. And as the OP stated, it is really bad when you have a weak link and have to VK them because they are under geared, and even worst if it happens to be a tank or healer.

 

PLEASE FIX THIS!

We don't know who knows and who doesn't.

 

Exactly my point. Communication is a two-way thing. When I don't know something, I ask. But I comprehend why some people might be hesitant to. After all, "stupid" questions are often met with contempt from "more experienced" players.

 

The server communities are big an anonymous.

 

Then they aren't communities.

No...

 

This.

 

BW is already doing a good enough job of encouraging elitist tricks at endgame. I'm glad they took a step in the other direction with the group finder in 2.3.

 

Edit - *****s with a p is filtered.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Inflicktion

 

A check is just that- it bars people. No reasoning or understanding is required, nor gained by implementing it. As Urare suggested, people internalizing this understanding would be a far, far better choice for the community as a whole.

 

Guy enters undergeared a flashpoint, what exactly is meant to happen afterwards?

 

me going " dude you ain't geared for this, please leave " ?

 

Don't know how else this might work out once in the FP itself, please do enlighten me..?

This.

 

BW is already doing a good enough job of encouraging elitist tricks at endgame. I'm glad they took a step in the other direction with the group finder in 2.3.

 

Edit - *****s with a p is filtered.

 

When you enter a flashpoint and get the whole team expects you to carry'em, you might want to reconsider stuff.

 

And tbf, I hardly doubt that getting armorings and mods from the GTN is something for elitist tricks...

 

Until then.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Tachenko_Yuri

Guy enters undergeared a flashpoint, what exactly is meant to happen afterwards?

 

me going " dude you ain't geared for this, please leave " ?

 

Why not?

 

When you enter a flashpoint and get the whole team expects you to carry'em, you might want to reconsider stuff.

 

Making the leap of logic that a person's presence in a flashpoint he isn't geared for automatically means he wishes to be carried seems like a large assumption to make.

 

Particularly without asking.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SkunkWerks

Why not?

 

Various consequences which are, but not limited to.

 

Random insults.

 

Guy rage quitting but not before pulling all the mobs he can, causing a wipe.

 

Addition to said guy's ignore list.

 

A few round excuse for example " funny enough i just did this with another group " - True story

 

Maybe if one gets lucky he will just leave politely, would be nice, but fairly unlikely though.

Various consequences which are, but not limited to.

 

Random insults.

 

Guy rage quitting but not before pulling all the mobs he can, causing a wipe.

 

Addition to said guy's ignore list.

 

A few round excuse for example " funny enough i just did this with another group " - True story

 

Maybe if one gets lucky he will just leave politely, would be nice, but fairly unlikely though.

 

Again, mutual contempt. Someone must extend the first olive branch if you want an end to that. Generally speaking I treat others how I feel I would wish to be treated- regardless of whether or not they're reciprocating.

 

Most people worth having in a group will respond to that positively. And if you ask me, that's a far better indicator of how your flashpoint is apt to go.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SkunkWerks

When you enter a flashpoint and get the whole team expects you to carry'em, you might want to reconsider stuff.

 

And tbf, I hardly doubt that getting armorings and mods from the GTN is something for elitist tricks...

 

Until then.

 

I didn't say coming in grossly under geared was okay either. If anything it makes you equally intolerable. I never join a FP/ OP I know I don't have the gear to do, but if they started enforcing a check I'd never do another one again. It would get to the point where people would QQ about someone in 60 armoring because they think they should be in 63. People QQ enough at endgame without these proposed checks. BW made the right decision by adding the story que in 2.3 instead of fostering this mindset further. You guys are already doing your own gear checks on everyone anyways. If you don't want to give them advice and tell them what they should be doing instead then just leave.

 

If you want to make the group finder faster, which even with that initial preface is what you've gone on to argue about, this isn't the way to do it. This is just going to deter more people from FPs. Join a guild if you want to run with organized groups.

Again, mutual contempt. Someone must extend the first olive branch if you want an end to that. Generally speaking I treat others how I feel I would wish to be treated- regardless of whether or not they're reciprocating.

 

Most people worth having in a group will respond to that positively. And if you ask me, that's a far better indicator of how your flashpoint is apt to go.

 

Between my last posting and this i just went through a hammer station HM.

 

DPS in 61 - 58 mods

 

DPS in full 69 + 28 purp augs

 

Heal with random gear varying from 61 purp to 66 blue

 

Me ( tanking ) full 66 + boots at 69 + full 28 augs

 

Somehow been able to one shot the lobel, with medpack + cooldowns, but died on trash

 

Luckily enough the 69 was able to compensate what the other DPS was evidently lacking.

 

There's my olive branch right there, not saying anything regarding gear to people

 

But still on the opinion that people shouldn't be carrying other people just cuz they want to burn hoops and not gear up how it's meant to be.

But still on the opinion that people shouldn't be carrying other people just cuz they want to burn hoops and not gear up how it's meant to be.

 

Still of the opinion that if you haven't asked about their intentions, you don't know that's what they are.

The problem is just that some people ignore gearing up and then expect others to do it for them. It's a form of laziness and they are all shouting no because they don't want to do a minimum of work. They'd rather someone else do it.

 

Now, I will say that a gear check shouldn't be too stringent but a level 55 with items that are below level 50 is just anti-social when grouping up. I don't give a rats *** about all you people saying it splits the community or that it's elitist. It's not. It just being upset that people are riding the easy waves on your back.

 

Also, I feel that the lack of gear check is one of the reasons why a lot of tanks ignore pugs and only use the GF with guild teams, making the waiting times longer for everybody else. This is also a consequence because of all the people who ruin teams and people get fed up with it. I know I did and I rarely pug with my tanks specifically for this reason. It just makes the GF worse of a tool to use in general.

 

Again, the requirements shouldn't be too high, but for level 55 HARD MODE flash points, I think it's fair to require a minimum of gear that is level 50 or higher in the least. If you're still using level 44 blue mods in your gear, you're just an anti-social who doesn't give a crap about his team mates. Why on earth would I want to help someone like that?