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Republic Vs. Empire


JustDocBrown

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If you take the Sith out of it I haven't seen many people in the Empire (Played all but SW) kill their subordinates without a good reason.

 

Failure is not tolerated but it is only dismal failure that is punishable by death, and that means they did something very wrong (My real life view interjects here though, because if someone fails then their manager has also failed for appointing said person). I often wish failure in real life had similar punishments.

 

But look at it another way:

 

  • If there was no Sith/Empire the Republic would still be a chaotic place, with crime, political infighting and poverty.
  • If there was no Jedi/Republic/Rebels the Empire would be ordered, peaceful and crime free (Admittedly with slavery). Only the Sith would need fearing, and they are the Empires downfall.

 

The Empire is dictatorship which means the most powerful can easily lead it, they are just set in a time where unfortunately those people who hold that power are evil and self serving.

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The Empire = Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I completely disagree with that line.

 

I find it more like if there is a position of absolute power the path to that position is filled with treachery and corruption to the point that it takes a corrupt person to actually reach that level of power. There was a quote about power being magnetic to corrupt personalities or something.

 

The Empire is a perfect representation of this, to become the head of the Empire you need to be very powerful. The only 2 people really at this power level tend to be the Emperor and whoever leads the Jedi. But the Emperor is corrupt and happy to abuse his power to get that authority, and the Jedi will never abuse his power in such a way. The Emperor wasn't corrupted by being placed in charge, he got there because he was happy to abuse his power in order to gain more power.

 

Look at most of the military dictatorships in the real world, military generals get to generalship often by following very questionable orders, and those who disobey those orders because of their morals never get promoted. Then when there is a power vacuum those morally questionable generals are well placed to seize power for themselves. Once in power they maintain it by continuing the corruption which got them their power in the first place, though sometimes because more people rebel against their authority it just seems like they are abusing the power more than before, the reality is that more people force them into it.

 

North Korea is a good example, the majority of the people there actually think they are being well looked after, so they do not revolt and they do not need putting down like the people in some other similar countries (Syria I think). But you can guarantee that if the North Korean's start to rebel they will be put down.

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If you take the Sith out of it I haven't seen many people in the Empire (Played all but SW) kill their subordinates without a good reason.

 

Failure is not tolerated but it is only dismal failure that is punishable by death, and that means they did something very wrong (My real life view interjects here though, because if someone fails then their manager has also failed for appointing said person). I often wish failure in real life had similar punishments.

 

But look at it another way:

 

  • If there was no Sith/Empire the Republic would still be a chaotic place, with crime, political infighting and poverty.
  • If there was no Jedi/Republic/Rebels the Empire would be ordered, peaceful and crime free (Admittedly with slavery). Only the Sith would need fearing, and they are the Empires downfall.

 

The Empire is dictatorship which means the most powerful can easily lead it, they are just set in a time where unfortunately those people who hold that power are evil and self serving.

Sith killed less subordinates than officers. They need to be feared, they are the ultimate weapon of the Empire, very often the most intelligent, their projects change every day of the Empire. They are good at their jobs.

 

also, it is not a dictatorship, it is illuminated absolute monarchy.

without a Sith, there is a possibility that it would fall into disgrace in form of democracy - as it is the easiest way to manipulate whole nations - and on the galactic scale, the most probable outcome.

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Everybody seems to forget that the Sith are actually the first victims. The sith started when the jedi started a civil war and defeated the jedi that began to think about the different side of the force (dark side). That repeats throughout Galactic History, even to the point the Jedi and Republic massacred millions of sith hoping to wipe them out. The Empire in SWTOR is the survivors that are simply looking for revenge.
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Everybody seems to forget that the Sith are actually the first victims. The sith started when the jedi started a civil war and defeated the jedi that began to think about the different side of the force (dark side). That repeats throughout Galactic History, even to the point the Jedi and Republic massacred millions of sith hoping to wipe them out. The Empire in SWTOR is the survivors that are simply looking for revenge.

 

You could not be more wrong.

 

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

 

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.

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You could not be more wrong.

 

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

 

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.

I love that word "abuse", another shiny example of wide spread delicious propaganda. You do not abuse power, you use it however you like, you do with it what you want - and they were conducting experiments, they were creating first line forces - but what jedi did? jedi, in their ignorance and stupidity exiled them, they couldnt accept their intelectual superiority, their courage, so supressed by narrow minded moral code they cast them away. They are responsible for whatever happend next, revange is a natural and the most beautiful form of justice that Sith understand very well.

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You could not be more wrong.

 

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

 

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.

 

Well ok then! Guess I was wrong and I have no problems admitting that, unlike some people on the forum, but I'm just curious as the history diaries on the website said how the republic "could have stopped there" but went on to kill the sith which made them want revenge?

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Well ok then! Guess I was wrong and I have no problems admitting that, unlike some people on the forum, but I'm just curious as the history diaries on the website said how the republic "could have stopped there" but went on to kill the sith which made them want revenge?

 

I'll ignore Surinen's reply because he is such an obvious troll (or simply a very dark person).

 

Could the Jedi have stopped? Probably. But the Sith were still strong and the Supreme Chancellor wanted to prevent another war.

 

But technically, the invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Hyperspace War. So the Republic really didn't do anything wrong (besides war, but they were only retaliating).

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I'll ignore Surinen's reply because he is such an obvious troll (or simply a very dark person).

 

Could the Jedi have stopped? Probably. But the Sith were still strong and the Supreme Chancellor wanted to prevent another war.

 

But technically, the invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Hyperspace War. So the Republic really didn't do anything wrong (besides war, but they were only retaliating).

 

I don't know. If he actually believe the nonsense that he spouts then I would very much doubt his intelligence. Maybe he should live under a dictatorship and see how easy it is to gain power or be one of the higher ups.

 

I certainly hope he is trolling. I can't or rather don't want to believe someone that ignorant can exist.

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I don't know. If he actually believe the nonsense that he spouts then I would very much doubt his intelligence. Maybe he should live under a dictatorship and see how easy it is to gain power or be one of the higher ups.

 

I certainly hope he is trolling. I can't or rather don't want to believe someone that ignorant can exist.

I do not believe, I know that it is true. Again, Sith Empire is not a dictatorship but an absolute monarchy. Then we are in the same category, or at least we were, at this point, my opinion about your certain traits is definately stabilized and clear. You have very much idealistic, almost fable like approach to existence of living organisms if you think that dictatorships are bad or wrong. I'm afraid that ignorance is your strongest quality and you may have a chance to become a senatore in a democratic country, after all, strings adore lively puppets.

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You could not be more wrong.

 

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

 

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.

 

Actually the Hundred years of Darkness. Started when the jedi decided not to tolerate a different view of the way to use the force. They also sent them out into unknown space in a single ship, that's like kicking people out into the pacific ocean in a tug boat, it's as good as killing them.

 

Also the Republic committed genocide against the Empire in the Great Hyperspace War. They destroyed an entire species as well as a civilisation. The equivalent would be killing every Prussian after the First World War. Until the reveal about the Sith in SWTOR, the official cannon had them as extinct . As in no one left, what the Nazis wanted to do to the Jews.

 

So the Republic is not blameless here.

 

 

 

It is also really dumb to have the Empire as raciest. Because the reason for the Movie Empire's racism was that it was a part of the CORE society. So the Republic should be the racist power and the Empire just a power hungry dictatorship.

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when and where? from my playthros I can say that in fact there was one such accident. Siths generally dont wander cities seeking for victims, they dont even abuse that much power, and comparing to regular soldiers who kill theyr subordinates for failures I would say that they are rather balanced. Of course that they kill each other from time to time to get a better title or just to get ride of those they dislike but that is purely Sith Code, official relligion of the Sith Empire.

 

what about that mission where the sith got tagged because they were hunting people down just because it was Tuesday?

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what about that mission where the sith got tagged because they were hunting people down just because it was Tuesday?

I mentioned this quest before as an exception, it happend, but for sure there are also non force users who hunt civilians and murder them for fun, criminals in this or other form. and in my story

Sith didnt get tagged but the loudy man.

. Also, if the Sith were powerful and useful ( althou we dont know much about them, at least I dont know ) then sacrificing few citizens for sating their bloodlust is a rather fair price, althou it should be much better covered.

 

and someone above said that Empire is dictatorship - Empire is a monarchy

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I mentioned this quest before as an exception, it happend, but for sure there are also non force users who hunt civilians and murder them for fun, criminals in this or other form. and in my story

Sith didnt get tagged but the loudy man.

. Also, if the Sith were powerful and useful ( althou we dont know much about them, at least I dont know ) then sacrificing few citizens for sating their bloodlust is a rather fair price, althou it should be much better covered.

 

and someone above said that Empire is dictatorship - Empire is a monarchy

 

 

I tagged the d-bag Sith. Serves them right.

 

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I tagged the d-bag Sith. Serves them right.

you avenged few citzens, maybe a dozen by sacrificing ( possibly ) a Sith who would be able to obliterate hundreds of republic scums ( althou, if they die from being tagged then it is not a big loss )

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Empire itself is a stability and order, so whenever it grip reaches, subjects become part of order. Killing for failures is essential to get rid of weak and useless material that may cause even bigger havoc if spared. Sith does not kill for the wrong look, unless it is in public, and someone openly disrespect them, manifestation of power is required. Those who think that something is wrong are usually less intelligent people with weak characters that want to be equal with others just for the sake of it, typical and dangerous.

 

Absolute power rarely leads to corruption, but such statements are well known for people who try to remain within heart of corruption in democratic states of Republic. It is ill propaganda manufactured to liking of simple folk who feel entitled to rule their countries whenether they cant count to 10 or are simply idiots ( rarely individual agrees to his intelectual limitations ).

 

Republic is based on corruption, semi mob rule where senate live on bribes. Republic is negation of advancement for the sake of unnatural ideals.

 

only the most intelligent, powerful and with proper personality people deserve to rule ( about 1% of whole population ) - and that is The Sith Empire, place where everybody seeks challenge, advancement and further development.

 

The Sith Empire, place that you want to die for ( and most probably you will )

 

I recall the Empire living off bribes as well. I believe it was a Sith Acolyte who wants to bribe you to stop her Master from proving that all living things can have the force.

 

The same with another Sith (Lord I believe this time) that wishes to bribe you to keep secret that Jawas are infact capable of using the force and then act like it never happened.

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I recall the Empire living off bribes as well. I believe it was a Sith Acolyte who wants to bribe you to stop her Master from proving that all living things can have the force.

 

The same with another Sith (Lord I believe this time) that wishes to bribe you to keep secret that Jawas are infact capable of using the force and then act like it never happened.

It is not a common thing among the Sith to aknowledge that force is living - in fact they are using it as a tool, weapon. To her he was simply insane blob that was keeping her advancement. Overall it is a little thing that would affect mostly philosophy at best.

 

She didnt bribe you from what I remember but orders you to secure image and position of the Sith within Empire citizens - it wouldnt be nicely viewed if a rat in rags would be able to use force just like a Sith Lord ( althou, this quest seems to be a little bit out of line with whole lore, as citizens of the Empire are ratherin possesion of knowledge that Jedi are aliens too, many aliens that they view as lesser ones - so this quest is tricky, but either way her itentions are fine )

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Tvtropes called this game an example of genocidal backfireand and i couldnt agree more. The thing is however that the republic not once admits that what they did to sith of old was wrong and simply covers it with a dose smug self righteousness. In short the difference between the empire and the repubulic is not that great.
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what about that mission where the sith got tagged because they were hunting people down just because it was Tuesday?

 

Hmm as I remember it, the hunters are a group of criminal citizens of the empire not sith. Anyway the reason you tag the sith acolytes is so the hunters tries to kill them and then get cut into little bits by the siths, ethier the acolytes or some higher up sith for dareing to attack a sith.

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  • 4 months later...

The empire has good intentions, questionable methods and that is largely down to the leadership

 

the Way I think about is the same as WW2

 

The Germans:

Generally the Troops where cought between a rock and hard place... fighting becuase they were forced to, misguided sence of patriotisim or naively believed their leaders. The Nazi Party however was where evil bred.

 

So the Axis forces where not evil, the average German troop was probably no different to the person he was trying to kill

 

The Allies:

Fighting for the Freedom of the world, an easy thing to say and make history when you won. The average solidier as pointed out above was no different to the person in the opposite trench... But theei leaders were not squeeky clean, Churchill let hundreds if not thousands of innocent british civilians die when the Luftwaffer attacked some city in the north of England (think it was norwich), he knew about it because of the Engima machines code was broken, but didn;t want to tip the hat to the germans. Also, in retaliation to that and London bombing the RAF carpet bombed Drezden, a city mostly made of Wood on the far east of Germany that burnt to the ground. It had not been bombed during the war because it had no military significane, then miraculiosuly they found some significance to bomb it. History however questions their motives.

 

So here you have a seemingly good vs evil battle... where both sides commited great acts of compasion and gruesome acts of cruelty. One should always remeber history is written by the victor, which is inveriably the Republic.

 

I personally prefer the empire. The republic is weak. Nothing showed this more than when the Empire/Sith returned, and the Republic instantly fell apart, each planet looking out for its own interests and unable to work together to stop the sith attack. Ideals are great, but conviction is where it lays, and the Jedi, Sith and Empire have it, the Republic do not.

 

Also I know some may point out that he Jedi don't lead the republic, but they do fight for the peace. And Peace kept without emotions such as compassion is as inflexible as the Empires rule would be.

 

:rak_03:

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The empire has good intentions, questionable methods and that is largely down to the leadership

 

the Way I think about is the same as WW2

 

The Germans:

Generally the Troops where cought between a rock and hard place... fighting becuase they were forced to, misguided sence of patriotisim or naively believed their leaders. The Nazi Party however was where evil bred.

 

So the Axis forces where not evil, the average German troop was probably no different to the person he was trying to kill

 

The Allies:

Fighting for the Freedom of the world, an easy thing to say and make history when you won. The average solidier as pointed out above was no different to the person in the opposite trench... But theei leaders were not squeeky clean, Churchill let hundreds if not thousands of innocent british civilians die when the Luftwaffer attacked some city in the north of England (think it was norwich), he knew about it because of the Engima machines code was broken, but didn;t want to tip the hat to the germans. Also, in retaliation to that and London bombing the RAF carpet bombed Drezden, a city mostly made of Wood on the far east of Germany that burnt to the ground. It had not been bombed during the war because it had no military significane, then miraculiosuly they found some significance to bomb it. History however questions their motives.

 

So here you have a seemingly good vs evil battle... where both sides commited great acts of compasion and gruesome acts of cruelty. One should always remeber history is written by the victor, which is inveriably the Republic.

 

I personally prefer the empire. The republic is weak. Nothing showed this more than when the Empire/Sith returned, and the Republic instantly fell apart, each planet looking out for its own interests and unable to work together to stop the sith attack. Ideals are great, but conviction is where it lays, and the Jedi, Sith and Empire have it, the Republic do not.

 

Also I know some may point out that he Jedi don't lead the republic, but they do fight for the peace. And Peace kept without emotions such as compassion is as inflexible as the Empires rule would be.

 

:rak_03:

 

But the Jedi have compassion. It's TOR (and thusly BW) trying to make Jedi and Sith 100% opposites and thusly mess things up, that says they wouldn't :p

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I love that word "abuse", another shiny example of wide spread delicious propaganda. You do not abuse power, you use it however you like, you do with it what you want - and they were conducting experiments, they were creating first line forces - but what jedi did? jedi, in their ignorance and stupidity exiled them, they couldnt accept their intelectual superiority, their courage, so supressed by narrow minded moral code they cast them away. They are responsible for whatever happend next, revange is a natural and the most beautiful form of justice that Sith understand very well.

 

You my friend are a true Sith. I hold your view in high regard.

 

Remember, peace is a lie.

There is only passion.

 

Darth Retribus

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If you actually gave the issue much thought, you would realize that the Sith way of looking at things is the way that we do in everyday life. The belief in success of the strong is no different from Darwin's theory of evolution. The use of passion and emotion to drive is to success is precisely what we do. Has there been any successful man in the history of the world that did not use his emotion and passion to achieve his goals? Answer: NO. Thus the Sith are not wholly evil, they just seek power. It is the occasional psychopath which is the black sheep. The jedi also produce black sheeps, there are jedi who are willing to kill others for the (greater good) for example (mace windu) so the jedi are not incorruptible either. The philosophy that makes most sense however, is the Sith's
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If you actually gave the issue much thought, you would realize that the Sith way of looking at things is the way that we do in everyday life. The belief in success of the strong is no different from Darwin's theory of evolution. The use of passion and emotion to drive is to success is precisely what we do. Has there been any successful man in the history of the world that did not use his emotion and passion to achieve his goals? Answer: NO. Thus the Sith are not wholly evil, they just seek power. It is the occasional psychopath which is the black sheep. The jedi also produce black sheeps, there are jedi who are willing to kill others for the (greater good) for example (mace windu) so the jedi are not incorruptible either. The philosophy that makes most sense however, is the Sith's

These occasional psychopath black sheeps in the Empire are not occasional. They're the standard in the Sith Order. It's the sane Sith that care about the Imperial citizens and prosperity of the Empire that are rare.

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