From the Wookiee pages on Thrawn's Fleet and the ships present at the Battle of Endor i.e. Death Squadron at its height. As for the communications ship as it says in the linked post I left it out because we lack information.

Well that is a potential 100 or so guns left out as well as the MC80 no longer being there, from the picture of the ship they showed, and the size I would assume Imp 1 armament, it is still considered a SSD after all.

Also could you link me your info on the Endor ships? Again anything that will make my upcoming analysis as accurate as possible since i dont have to worry about pesky era barriers will be very appreciated.

Well that is a potential 100 or so guns left out as well as the MC80 no longer being there, from the picture of the ship they showed, and the size I would assume Imp 1 armament, it is still considered a SSD after all.

 

Also could you link me your info on the Endor ships?

And anyway I doubt that, it is classed as a Battlecruiser as opposed to a Star Destroyer and was second-in-command to the fleet, so I expect it was somewhere between an ISD and an Executor-class.

And here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Endor

As I said, I've updated it.

 

And anyway I doubt that, it is classed as a Battlecruiser as opposed to a Star Destroyer and was second-in-command to the fleet, so I expect it was somewhere between an ISD and an Executor-class.

 

And here:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Endor

Thank you. Going to confirm info and see if we cant get some kind of consensus on the Imp Com ships weapons. I am assuming you can send the Executor 1 location and the rest of the fleet the other (or spaced out small enough that the rest of the fleet can respond to what ever fast enough with out any interuption.) then it would literally almost take the entire DS fleet as far as I can tell to break them, and that is before Kuat and Corellia really start pumping stuff out.

Ok so Battle of Endor looking through them looks about equal parts Imp 1 and Imp 2, last I checked 35 total of those class of ships so that would be 3 Imp II's and 4 Imp 1's if memory serves (7 total is 1/5th if I am not mistaken.)

Thank you. Going to confirm info and see if we cant get some kind of consensus on the Imp Com ships weapons. I am assuming you can send the Executor 1 location and the rest of the fleet the other (or spaced out small enough that the rest of the fleet can respond to what ever fast enough with out any interuption.) then it would literally almost take the entire DS fleet as far as I can tell to break them, and that is before Kuat and Corellia really start pumping stuff out.

Yes but I expect after gathering information on the more or less exact makeup of the enemy fleet and perhaps even recieving a report of the Executor leaving (or at least tracking its progress in the Outer Rim) and realizing they are in possession of Kuat and Corellia they'd launch a large naval offensive consisting of the majority of their force to get the upper hand. Leaving their worlds vulnerable, though expecting to at least stall the Executor's arrival.

My point is I dont think they need the Executor, I believe the other warships in tandum might be strong enough to fight off the smaller DS ships, but again I will put my feet on solid ground AFTER i have figured out just how many of everything there is in the AE fleet and make up my mind.

My point is I dont think they need the Executor, I believe the other warships in tandum might be strong enough to fight off the smaller DS ships, but again I will put my feet on solid ground AFTER i have figured out just how many of everything there is in the AE fleet and make up my mind.

I think its about time to call it. I don't see any arguments that could possibly come up at this point.

I agree.

Well the figures are there so...

Ya I have found them a bit inaccurate already, there would be at least 3 Imp II's based entirely on the Endor battle. If you go through the known ships they are equal parts Imp 1 and Imp 2, we know the Death Squad had 35 Star Destroyers in it, that would mean a total of 7 ships with that there are at least 3 Imp II's with 4 Imp 1, That is missing at least 1 Imp 2 out of your calc. Thrawn's fleet on the other hand is almost entirely made up of Imp 1's it seems save for his own. Which would add 1 more into the Imp II catagory and 2 more into the Imp 1 Catagory making for 4 II's and 6 I's. Thrawn had a couple Victory 1's and 3 Interdictor's as well it seems. Also if you look at the picture http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Thrawn%27s_Armada.JPG in the organization bit we can see that he had many Carrack-class ships as well. 22 for 5 Imp's, I would assume similar ratios being kept through out his fleet thus likely 44 of these makeing for a total after dropping around 9 (dont assume Death sqaud is the same obviously)

1 Executor

1 Imperial Com ship

4 Imp II (140 turbo laser, 20 Ion)

6 Imp I (73 Turbo laser,62 ion)

1 Tector-class (same as Imp II likely)

2 Victory I (50 turbo laser, 80 concussive missiles) (1 from thrawn fleet 1 from Death squad last i checked the 1/5th was for each fleet rounded up to a whole ship NOT from the 2 fleets together to make it more fair for those that chose individual fleets over those that chose huge Navies)

2 Immobillizer-class (20 laser cannons) (again 1 from each fleet same reason)

10 Carrack-class (10 turbo laser, 20 laser cannon) (1 from death squad again see above from victory and Immobillizer)

36 Dreadnaught-class (10 turbo laser, 30 laser cannon, unknown ion OR 50 turbo laser, 1 Concussive..... of those turbo's 20 being light turbo's likely able to still hit fighters most of the time)

Total armament not including Comm ship or Executor would be around

1668-2138 Turbolasers (the spread is there because Dreadnaught's could be and LIKELY are the upgraded version not the original thus the high amount is more likely then the low)

472 Ion Cannons

160-196 Conncussive missiles (same as turbo's)

240-1320 laser cannons (assuming alternate for Carrak, the high end is original dreadnaughts not upgraded seems unlikely to me)

vs

12 Venator's (10 turbo lasers, 52 laser, 4 proton)

70 Interceptor (6 turbo laser, 3 proton)

118 Gozanti (4 laser cannon, 1 proton)

580 turbolasers

1094 laser cannons

342 Proton torps

I feel I am missing somthing here when it comes to the DS fleets numbers where did you get your calcs beni?

That being said i also want to look at number of fighters in which AE has

1226 (this again does not include comm ship or Exector) also doesnt include landing craft or boarding shuttles just fighters and bombers.

VS DS

5280 Again fighter compliments only.

Now this means the DS has a decissive Fighter supperiority, but is seriously lacking in large ship battles. That being said though they will be droid pilots vs Clones in this case and even at more then 4:1 advantage the clones have shown the ability to out fly droids.

All-in=all according to these numbers they dont need the Comm ship or the Executor to fend off the DS navy large ships, the only thing they need worry about is the fighter compliments.

Edit: considering the AE leadership and the like they might put the Dreadnaughts to original configuration for greater fighter defense evening the odds there while still haveing triple the fire power of the DS fleet with out considering the Executor.

The signal ships are perfectly plausible and an all around good idea.

 

Edit: Whenever I try and quote what someone said inside a quote so they could easily respond to it, I tend to have issues with the color so it is harder to tell apart who said what. The post I mean is post 576.

Also, I did mention that exact idea in my long response cept it was probe droids... still.

Yeah I wasn't gonna waste time breaking your quote up for every response I made, it was one long-*** quote.

Also Beni, Mon Mothma wouldn't give up her life to save millions because she knows that should she and her faction lose it will mean the death and enslavement of trillions of other beings. Mon Mothma has a greater moral imperative to the lives of trillions than a few million on one planet. It'll bother her sure, but she's shown this kind of resolve before, else Aurbere would never have picked her.

As for Counter-intelligence, every military (clones included) had a counter-intelligence branch that dealt in securing their military secrets. I'm not giving a named group, but then again neither are you when you make the blanket statement of "Underworld" (hint: they're not all Exchange or willing to help the Exchange) and in all the history there are very few (if any) accounts of the Underworld actively infiltrating militaries and obtaining info. Why? Because militaries are good at protecting their secrets.

Also, lets look at every criminal organization in the history of Star Wars. None have been effective against the militaries of their eras and as intelligence-gathering goes, it is pretty limited what they could ever get their hands on. Add to that the tendencies for backstabbing and my scenario where they work both sides to prolong the war (more profit) and you have an untrustworthy, rag-tag band of mercs not even trained as fighters who have trouble with even local law enforcement and you want THEM to be the vanguard of an invasion? Even under Maul they were pretty weak without trained Mando warriors and couldn't stand against either faction directly (as they will more or less in this case).

Also, lets look at every criminal organization in the history of Star Wars. As intelligence-gathering goes, it is pretty limited what they could ever get their hands on.

Except for teh Black Sun under Xizor cause he is teh boss.

Question: Would those fighters be pirates or droids? Because they originate from the Black Sun navy, correct? Wouldn't that mean the only droid fighters are from the Lucrehulks?

Though at times I really am not understanding the calculations to achieve the numbers for the forces. For scaling reasons I mean, because wasn't it mentioned that the Black Sun navy supposedly had around 7000 or so ships at least earlier? Just trying to follow the train of thought for the resizing/balancing process there.

*Btw, the current 200 is about 3% of the total Black Sun navies strength*

Except for teh Black Sun under Xizor cause he is teh boss.

Well yeah, I said almost Still, he was practically a part of the government and had a secret fleet, yet still got kicked to the curb by the military (and Vader of course)

Well yeah, I said almost Still, he was practically a part of the government and had a secret fleet, yet still got kicked to the curb by the military (and Vader of course)

Well I don't think he was expecting the freaking Executor to show up at his skyhook. But then that isn't a loss, considering nothing could really match up to the Executor there.

Question: Would those fighters be pirates or droids? Because they originate from the Black Sun navy, correct? Wouldn't that mean the only droid fighters are from the Lucrehulks?

 

Though at times I really am not understanding the calculations to achieve the numbers for the forces. For scaling reasons I mean, because wasn't it mentioned that the Black Sun navy supposedly had around 7000 or so ships at least earlier? Just trying to follow the train of thought for the resizing/balancing process there.

 

*Btw, the current 200 is about 3% of the total Black Sun navies strength*

The pilots of the DS navy, including fighters, are droids.

The 7,000 thing may have been my mistake. Exaggerated a bit, potentially. Probably a couple thousand less.

There are nine Vigos of the Black Sun. Each Vigo controls a sector. Each sector is 50 inhabitable planets. And the Black sun potentially has 10 ships per system, at least.

That's 9 (Vigos) x 50 (planets) x 10 (ships) = 4500 ships

That was just a rough estimate. But Xizor had 200 ships over Coruscant. So the ratio of ships per system could be much higher. Not that it really matters in this debate.

But that would mean that the DS navy is at 4.5% full strength, while the AE navy is at 64% full strength. That's my main issue with how the navies were balanced, but it doesn't matter at this point. However, keeping this in mind for next Kaggath Tournament should be important.

Well I don't think he was expecting the freaking Executor to show up at his skyhook. But then that isn't a loss, considering nothing could really match up to the Executor there. Plus I'm not recalling Xizor even having his fleet there to begin with, he just had some fighters.

Eh, it's been a while... I think he recalled his secret fleet for the battle and lost, but I'm not sure.

OK I've updated the fleet compositions based on Tunewalker's suggestions and some of my own observations. Remember however that these are not totally accurate guidelines, firepower in particular is just to give a general sense.

Anyway your mistaken concerning a few things Tune:

1. There are only 33 not 35 IMPs, and a few of them are in both fleets, we don't count duplicates.
    
    
   
2. We cannot assume concerning the Carracks, we only have record of 22 so we can only assume there are 22. Thrawn took whatever he had and didn't likely have the liberty to equip every IMP with an equal escort.
    
    
   
3. We round to the nearest whole number, unless that number is 0. then you round up.
    
    
   
4. Its highly unlikely that the Dreadnaughts were of the upgraded model considering Thrawn acquired the lost Katana fleet which were deployed early on. Wookiee records the upgrades as coming after.
    
    
   
5. You are missing quite a lot concerning the Supremacy fleets but I expect you didn't:
    
    
   
   • Take into account the point-defense cannons are anti-capital ship weaponry i.e. these. They are designed for closer range but they pack just as a standard turbolaser cannon.
      
      
     
   • That we are using the Nebulon-B as a base class for the Interceptors considering Empire at War's inaccurate information. The proton torpedoes however remain static and carry over.
     

Anyway I hope that clears everything up, I'd rather not get bogged down in a debate about this.

Also, I did mention that exact idea in my long response cept it was probe droids... still.

 

Yeah I wasn't gonna waste time breaking your quote up for every response I made, it was one long-*** quote.

 

Also Beni, Mon Mothma wouldn't give up her life to save millions because she knows that should she and her faction lose it will mean the death and enslavement of trillions of other beings. Mon Mothma has a greater moral imperative to the lives of trillions than a few million on one planet. It'll bother her sure, but she's shown this kind of resolve before, else Aurbere would never have picked her.

Any instances in which she's allowed genocide to happen?

P.S. I think you are exaggerating the arguments made by the opposition... grossly.

Question: Would those fighters be pirates or droids? Because they originate from the Black Sun navy, correct? Wouldn't that mean the only droid fighters are from the Lucrehulks?

 

Though at times I really am not understanding the calculations to achieve the numbers for the forces. For scaling reasons I mean, because wasn't it mentioned that the Black Sun navy supposedly had around 7000 or so ships at least earlier? Just trying to follow the train of thought for the resizing/balancing process there.

 

*Btw, the current 200 is about 3% of the total Black Sun navies strength*

Anyway, yes they are all droids.

Yeah lets just say Warren's figures are... debatable, and different conclusions were reached.

The point is, if the ratios were to be equal, the Black Sun Navy would have to only have 320 total ships in it in order for 200 to be its 64% strength. But we all know the Black Sun had way more than 320 ships.

Well, she's nice. Especially considering the abundance of evidence that suggests G0-T0 will enslave humankind, and that with her death he'll definitely enslave humankind. What was that

 

Any instances in which she's allowed genocide to happen?

 

P.S. I think you are exaggerating the arguments made by the opposition... grossly.Yeah lets just say Warren's figures are... debatable, and different conclusions were reached.

 

Anyway, yes they are all droids.

Question: Is it possible, *considering how powerful that communication ship is apparently* that we could look into the DS fleet numbers again? If we go by the recent number *4500* then that bumps it from 3% to 4.4% but, i still feel that it seems...off...Don't get me wrong, i like stronger ships vs the superior numbers argument, no really I do. But these recent numbers just feel...wrong... for lack of a better word. If I recall correctly Black Sun's whole thing when it came to naval warfare was simply to outnumber and outmaneuver their enemies. Yet, if we go by the comparison that you stated earlier for the 1 Interceptor = 1 Nebulon B *according to EaW anyways* then that seems to unbalance it all. Granted, if it was the original Black Sun navy it likely would have superior pilots and would push on that way, but since they all are droids...*btw, what fighters are we using? Z-95 relics? Vultures? Other?*

If we were to assume that 1 = a Nebulon B/Interceptor, then the numbers would likely be close to this in terms of estimated strength when comparing fleets. Without calculating the Imperial Communications ship due to not sure how much it has exactly, between an ISD and a SSD is...well...its a large gap.

1 Executor-class Star Dreadnought - 400 *100x more firepower than ISD*

1 Imperial communications ship - ?

3 Imperial-II class Star Destroyers - 15 *20% stronger than MK I*

4 Imperial-I class Star Destroyers - 16

1 Tector-class Star Destroyer - 5

1 Victory-I class Star Destroyer - 2

1 Immobilizer 418 cruiser - 1

36 Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers - 36

2 Strike-class medium cruisers - 2

5 Carrack-class light cruisers - 2

Total 477

Without Executor 77

Considering that the DS has aproximately

12 Venator-class cruisers - 24 *maybe 48 if including fighter compliments*

70 Interceptor-class frigates - 70

118 Gozanti-class cruisers - 30 *hard to calculate these ones, so rough guess*

Total 124-148

Sounds fairly uneven no matter how we slice that. If the Executor is not present and the DS fleet meets the rest of the fleet, including the Communications Ship, it is likely a fairly even battle. However, even if it was the entire DS navy against the Executor, by these numbers they wouldn't even drop its shields... But, if the DS fleet was to get buffed it would be overpowered because then if the Executor is not present then the AE loses a concentrated battle due to numbers. I am not sure of how to proceed concerning this, though I would recommend looking at the Executor again. Even in the current form, without the Executor, the AE would fair well due to it would take more concentration by the DS to lower the number of the AE *due to its power being more focused in less vessels.* Yet, you can't just remove the Flagship.

I know that at the very least the DS should be forced to still play like it usually does, and that is as pirates, but being unable to do anything even against the Executor alone makes it impossible for them to do so.

The formal military *AE* should always be able to win 1-1 ratio, but I am unsure what a fair ratio would be in this match due to such a large portion of the AE strength being unable to be divided into smaller pieces.

Edit: Even then, we would have to remember to factor in fighters, which I am not even 100% sure how we reached the current fighter numbers for the DS. Though, Fighters/bombers might just be what could be used for the balancing act if we were to do it right.

Side Note: It should be considered however that these numbers are not taking into account the fact that Interceptors have proton torpedo launchers which likely could be used to take out shields/shield generators rapidly due to how many they as a fleet would have, aimed at a relatively small amount of enemy vessels. *ISD, VD's, Communication ship, and Executor all have fairly exposed generators* Should also be noted Strike Class Cruisers were extremely weak against shield penetrating weaponry due to their tendency to shake apart from the modular design, which is considered their greatest strength.

OK I've updated the fleet compositions based on Tunewalker's suggestions and some of my own observations. Remember however that these are not totally accurate guidelines, firepower in particular is just to give a general sense.

 

Anyway your mistaken concerning a few things Tune:

 

 

1. There are only 33 not 35 IMPs, and a few of them are in both fleets, we don't count duplicates.
    
    
   
2. We cannot assume concerning the Carracks, we only have record of 22 so we can only assume there are 22. Thrawn took whatever he had and didn't likely have the liberty to equip every IMP with an equal escort.
    
    
   
3. We round to the nearest whole number, unless that number is 0. then you round up.
    
    
   
4. Its highly unlikely that the Dreadnaughts were of the upgraded model considering Thrawn acquired the lost Katana fleet which were deployed early on. Wookiee records the upgrades as coming after.
    
    
   
5. You are missing quite a lot concerning the Supremacy fleets but I expect you didn't:
    
    
   
   • Take into account the point-defense cannons are anti-capital ship weaponry i.e. these. They are designed for closer range but they pack just as a standard turbolaser cannon.
      
      
     
   • That we are using the Nebulon-B as a base class for the Interceptors considering Empire at War's inaccurate information. The proton torpedoes however remain static and carry over.
     

 

Anyway I hope that clears everything up, I'd rather not get bogged down in a debate about this.

The whole "not counting duplicates" that seems like it just hurts Aurbere for choosing the 2 Fleets and kind of seems unfair to me, I dont think he was thinking he wouldnt get every ship as well as I dont think he realized there was some in both.

I dont know that the INterceptor would be the same strength as the Nebula it was noted as having equal shielding and speed, but still a smaller ship lacking some of the fire power the Nebula is still slightly better.

I am pretty sure one of the sources says the Death squad had 35 Star Destroyers in it thought this may have included the tetra and the com ship which would bring it down to 31 but I know thrawns fleet had 9 total 6 as part of his main group and 3 part of another group that he commanded. that was 40 total. I am also possitive about my numbers of the Carrack class. It didnt bother mentioning them in anything besides the formation likely because by comparison to the other ships they were largely inconsicuencial. This is the case with most Navies that are talked about the numbers they give out loud are generally just for the big dangerous ships while the smallers are just a given for screening. Its essentially a Stardestroyer (And the stuff normally with it) for thrawn every star destroyer in his fleet had 4 Carracks per destroyer. Honestly I dont think its fair not to assume that number stayed for all and not just his map of the orginization of ONE of his battle groups.

This is just my opinion.

Also if I upgraded the DS fleet with the Nebula stuff I believe the AE would still largely outgun the DS, the point defense guns are still laser cannons usually designed for tacking down fighters more so then capital ships but laser cannons ARE laser cannons, the laser cannons on a fighter which are of a similar caliber can also damage capital ships so that really changes nothing about my assessment of ships to ship combat capabilities. A Turbo Laser is going to hit much harder then a point defense Laser which is a much more accurate and faster moving Laser cannon.

Question: Is it possible, *considering how powerful that communication ship is apparently* that we could look into the DS fleet numbers again? If we go by the recent number *4500* then that bumps it from 3% to 4.4% but, i still feel that it seems...off...Don't get me wrong, i like stronger ships vs the superior numbers argument, no really I do. But these recent numbers just feel...wrong... for lack of a better word. If I recall correctly Black Sun's whole thing when it came to naval warfare was simply to outnumber and outmaneuver their enemies. Yet, if we go by the comparison that you stated earlier for the 1 Interceptor = 1 Nebulon B *according to EaW anyways* then that seems to unbalance it all. Granted, if it was the original Black Sun navy it likely would have superior pilots and would push on that way, but since they all are droids...*btw, what fighters are we using? Z-95 relics? Vultures? Other?*

 

If we were to assume that 1 = a Nebulon B/Interceptor, then the numbers would likely be close to this in terms of estimated strength when comparing fleets. Without calculating the Imperial Communications ship due to not sure how much it has exactly, between an ISD and a SSD is...well...its a large gap.

 

1 Executor-class Star Dreadnought - 400 *100x more firepower than ISD*

1 Imperial communications ship - ?

3 Imperial-II class Star Destroyers - 15 *20% stronger than MK I*

4 Imperial-I class Star Destroyers - 16

1 Tector-class Star Destroyer - 5

1 Victory-I class Star Destroyer - 2

1 Immobilizer 418 cruiser - 1

36 Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers - 36

2 Strike-class medium cruisers - 2

5 Carrack-class light cruisers - 2

 

Total 477

Without Executor 77

 

Considering that the DS has aproximately

 

12 Venator-class cruisers - 24 *maybe 48 if including fighter compliments*

70 Interceptor-class frigates - 70

118 Gozanti-class cruisers - 30 *hard to calculate these ones, so rough guess*

 

Total 124-148

 

Sounds fairly uneven no matter how we slice that. If the Executor is not present and the DS fleet meets the rest of the fleet, including the Communications Ship, it is likely a fairly even battle. However, even if it was the entire DS navy against the Executor, by these numbers they wouldn't even drop its shields... But, if the DS fleet was to get buffed it would be overpowered because then if the Executor is not present then the AE loses a concentrated battle due to numbers. I am not sure of how to proceed concerning this, though I would recommend looking at the Executor again. Even in the current form, without the Executor, the AE would fair well due to it would take more concentration by the DS to lower the number of the AE *due to its power being more focused in less vessels.* Yet, you can't just remove the Flagship.

 

I know that at the very least the DS should be forced to still play like it usually does, and that is as pirates, but being unable to do anything even against the Executor alone makes it impossible for them to do so.

 

The formal military *AE* should always be able to win 1-1 ratio, but I am unsure what a fair ratio would be in this match due to such a large portion of the AE strength being unable to be divided into smaller pieces.

 

Edit: Even then, we would have to remember to factor in fighters, which I am not even 100% sure how we reached the current fighter numbers for the DS. Though, Fighters/bombers might just be what could be used for the balancing act if we were to do it right.

 

Side Note: It should be considered however that these numbers are not taking into account the fact that Interceptors have proton torpedo launchers which likely could be used to take out shields/shield generators rapidly due to how many they as a fleet would have, aimed at a relatively small amount of enemy vessels. *ISD, VD's, Communication ship, and Executor all have fairly exposed generators* Should also be noted Strike Class Cruisers were extremely weak against shield penetrating weaponry due to their tendency to shake apart from the modular design, which is considered their greatest strength.

Just some notes I am possitive the Victories could be Nebula's 3:1 and the Dreadnaught beat the Nebula's 2-1. And Venator's would be 2:1 WITH compliment not with out if you compare a Victory with a Venator you will see the Victory actually out guns the Venator but it does not have the same compliment. I can link several sources that say the Victory and the Venator were on even terms but the Venator was prefered for more fighters over the Victories more Firepower which would change with Palp's new order prefering warships with more fire power over more fighters.

Any instances in which she's allowed genocide to happen?

 

P.S. I think you are exaggerating the arguments made by the opposition... grossly.

-If Guri's attack should fail, threaten civilian lives

-Mothma, refusing to live an immoral life, gives herself over for execution to save her people

-Untouched by her sentiment, GO-TO finishes the Kaggath by cleansing the galaxy of organics

Did I misread that then?

And Krytos Virus comes to mind, and reborn Plaps. Yet she never even considered giving in to Isard or Sidious despite the destruction they were ravaging. How about Thrawn? Did she back down despite his siege of Coruscant? Millions were dying from lack of supplies but she held firm.

OK I've updated the fleet compositions based on Tunewalker's suggestions and some of my own observations. Remember however that these are not totally accurate guidelines, firepower in particular is just to give a general sense.

 

Anyway your mistaken concerning a few things Tune:

 

 

1. There are only 33 not 35 IMPs, and a few of them are in both fleets, we don't count duplicates.
    
    
   
2. We cannot assume concerning the Carracks, we only have record of 22 so we can only assume there are 22. Thrawn took whatever he had and didn't likely have the liberty to equip every IMP with an equal escort.
    
    
   
3. We round to the nearest whole number, unless that number is 0. then you round up.
    
    
   
4. Its highly unlikely that the Dreadnaughts were of the upgraded model considering Thrawn acquired the lost Katana fleet which were deployed early on. Wookiee records the upgrades as coming after.
    
    
   
5. You are missing quite a lot concerning the Supremacy fleets but I expect you didn't:
    
    
   
   • Take into account the point-defense cannons are anti-capital ship weaponry i.e. these. They are designed for closer range but they pack just as a standard turbolaser cannon.
      
      
     
   • That we are using the Nebulon-B as a base class for the Interceptors considering Empire at War's inaccurate information. The proton torpedoes however remain static and carry over.
     

 

Anyway I hope that clears everything up, I'd rather not get bogged down in a debate about this.

Also concering number 3.

Thrawn fleet 3 Victories. thats .6 rounded goes to 1 Victory.

Death squad 1 Victory, thats .1 rounded would be 0 but as you said round up as it would end up being zero that is 1. That means a Total of 2 Victory classes in the fleet. We count the numbers of each fleet seperate and THEN combine them, that was the point of the 1/5th instead of the 1/10th. so your new numbers are missing a few ship AT LEAST in the AE wise. Same deal with the Immobillizer's there should be 2.

and I just noticed we are missing http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ilthmar%27s_Fist which I am pretty sure was one of these http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Star_Battlecruiser

OK I've updated the fleet compositions based on Tunewalker's suggestions and some of my own observations. Remember however that these are not totally accurate guidelines, firepower in particular is just to give a general sense.

 

Anyway your mistaken concerning a few things Tune:

 

 

1. There are only 33 not 35 IMPs, and a few of them are in both fleets, we don't count duplicates.
    
    
   
2. We cannot assume concerning the Carracks, we only have record of 22 so we can only assume there are 22. Thrawn took whatever he had and didn't likely have the liberty to equip every IMP with an equal escort.
    
    
   
3. We round to the nearest whole number, unless that number is 0. then you round up.
    
    
   
4. Its highly unlikely that the Dreadnaughts were of the upgraded model considering Thrawn acquired the lost Katana fleet which were deployed early on. Wookiee records the upgrades as coming after.
    
    
   
5. You are missing quite a lot concerning the Supremacy fleets but I expect you didn't:
    
    
   
   • Take into account the point-defense cannons are anti-capital ship weaponry i.e. these. They are designed for closer range but they pack just as a standard turbolaser cannon.
      
      
     
   • That we are using the Nebulon-B as a base class for the Interceptors considering Empire at War's inaccurate information. The proton torpedoes however remain static and carry over.
     

 

Anyway I hope that clears everything up, I'd rather not get bogged down in a debate about this.

For number 5 does that the Proton Torpedos will pierce shields and be able to impact directly on the hull of the target vessel? *I assume that is game mechanics, but just wanted to clarify.*i

OK guys concerning the numbers I provided and the rules surrounding them they are final, Silenceo I'm not sure what your complaint actually is and I don't know why you are coming up with differing numbers but if you want to know which numbers I am going to use when making the final decisions look to those provided.

I'm not interesting in getting into a discussion concerning this and having rules dictated to me so lets just move on.

P.S. Tune, these are not anti-starfighter cannons they are anti-ship cannons. With the term "laser cannon" referring to anything between blaster size to the guns on an AT-AT. Clearly these pack a turbolaser punch, they are massive.

That and they are slow moving, and clearly would be useless against fighters positioned inside the ship.