Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't get this, could someone please explain to me why you want this? You can't play multi characters at the same times in the same legacy. So all your alts would be just another statue in your stronghold. So there isn't going to be any RP interaction between the your alts. In one of the video there look to be a family tree that you could place in your stronghold. I want this 'Because' I can't play multi characters at the same time in the same legacy. Lack of interaction is a significant issue. I wonder if this is the reason that companions that aren't yours only being holograms is also part of this issue. Maybe the location of sound files attached to a companion are locked away on the class files. You know those limited responses you get when you click on companions in a starship. And, of course there would not be any vocals as yet associated with other characters, despite all that wasted vocal talent that's lost once you play through the class quests. Besides a limited selection of vocal responses from character and companions alike, the ability to attach a looping animation (maybe those emotes that you can unlock in collections as well as those obviously used for NPCs in game) would fulfil all my interaction needs. I think BW logic on this is that your alts are off fighting the good fight or bad fight if they are darksider. That why they aren't laying around moms house all day long. Since they are off saving or burning the galaxy with their companions that why they aren't there when your other alts are in the stronghold. How often does your whole family hang out in the same space together (parents, grandparents, kids, uncles, aunts, close friends and hate enemies)? Do you RP that when you aren't playing your character they are sitting on the couch till you play them? Or are they off on some sort of mini adventure? I don't RP that the characters I'm not playing from my legacy are loafing around on the couch, but they may be in the Warroom planning their next push for galactic domination, or on the balcony scanning the horizon for incoming threats, or in the workshop putting together some specialised weaponry, or in the garage fine tuning the lateral thrusters on the magnus, or throwing some wild shapes on the dance floor of the party room, or catching up with some much needed research in the datacron archive, or slopping out the pens of the animal mounts (all though that's usually a task reserved for Malavai Quinn), or... I think you get the idea that the options are more than just sitting on a couch. From my point of view this is a major missed opportunity to bring that sense of legacy together and truly integrate the characters. And, when I get together with all of my family for special occasions it does tend to take place at someone's home. I'm one the 1st people to criticize BW but I agree with them on this. A valid opinion, but I disagree with them. It's a major weakness of the stronghold launch and alongside the apparent lack of customisable mannequins (either as guards/NPCs or as statics) a contributing factor to me not investing additional CM revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 And the "just for fun" question -- which companions do you get to see [in holo form]? Like, if I have two Sith Warriors, can I show both Vettes, do I have to choose, or is there a separate "Stronghold Vette" that only exists if I have at least one Sith Warrior, but that I can clothe/decorate independently from their separate per-alt customization/equipment? While they didn't really show the Companion placement in great detail on the Twitch stream (A rather disgruntled Blizz was stood on the naughty step) I would imagine each character slot on the server has it's own linked companion slots. I doubt there is any distinction placed on the Class and associated companions linked to that slot. So, the companions from character slot one have a unique identifier from those in the other 21 slots (if you've fully expanded your character slots) and means that should you chose to have 22 Sith Warriors you will have 22 Vettes to place in the stronghold. It does suggest a significant amount of data storage when you consider the number of companions currently available per character sits at 8. So a full total of 176 companions Not all of which would have full customisation options though. I can see this as being one reason that may be given for not allowing the 'real' companions to be present but instead their holograms, although I imagine the hologram is an image effect applied after the customisation details have been applied so there is no reduction of storage here, in effect it's an additional process. It is also a sort of work around for not having true Mannequins to display armour sets on, although as it stands they would only be represented as holograms any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przemo_No Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I find it strange. I thought putting your alts in the stronghold would be the major feature. While I really do not care where my "trophies" will be placed, or what color has my carpet I wanted to SEE my all alts in their 3D. Of course I DO NOT expect all of them to be "active" while I play particular one, but at least i should be able to SEE them standing or sitting somewhere in the "house". Of course it would be weird having Sith Inquisitor DS drinking tea win LS Jedi Consular discussing newest fashion - thus the housing could accept alts of the same faction, but NOT having such opportunity at all is really depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Lack of interaction is a significant issue. I wonder if this is the reason that companions that aren't yours only being holograms is also part of this issue. Maybe the location of sound files attached to a companion are locked away on the class files. You know those limited responses you get when you click on companions in a starship. And, of course there would not be any vocals as yet associated with other characters, despite all that wasted vocal talent that's lost once you play through the class quests. Nah, that is not how programming works . All audio files are available at all times, you just need to call them up. However, with existing files, all you would get are responses like on a ship or while in terrain, because everything else is designed fro companion conversations (which would make sense with different characters). So we would need new companion voiceovers (not that big of a problem), and probably some AI routine that would allow them to use some semi-random animations... neither of those things seems difficult from a armchair point of view, but I have no idea how difficult it actually is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Vhaegrant thanks for shading some light on this. I do see your point. Maybe it is something they are working or might add due to feedback. They pushed it back release to Aug so it would be released with more features. They might not have thought about it like you guys do. They might want to release a good working base and see how much player use it. To see if it is worth more man power or if its a flop like the customization kiosk. Since we have seen any new character customization since the lease of the kiosk. I don't care for this feature of the game. Most likely my house is only going to have legacy bank in it and that is it. I need to start a thread and bash BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Thanks, Vhaegrant. That sheds some light.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Nah, that is not how programming works . All audio files are available at all times, you just need to call them up. However, with existing files, all you would get are responses like on a ship or while in terrain, because everything else is designed fro companion conversations (which would make sense with different characters). So we would need new companion voiceovers (not that big of a problem), and probably some AI routine that would allow them to use some semi-random animations... neither of those things seems difficult from a armchair point of view, but I have no idea how difficult it actually is I wasn't too sure how it would be handled. I thought you might have discreet companion sound libraries that only apply for the class in question. I don't remember ever hearing another players companion speak when I'm grouped up but that might be because after two and a half years questing with companions I've learnt to filter them out The generic companion speech would be good enough for me. To be honest it's more their presence that I'm after rather than having a meaningful dialogue with them. Afterall, if I'm happy to put up with them lurking on a starship without feeling the need to click on them I don't see why that should impact on using them in the Stronghold in a similar manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Vhaegrant thanks for shading some light on this. I do see your point. Maybe it is something they are working or might add due to feedback. They pushed it back release to Aug so it would be released with more features. They might not have thought about it like you guys do. They might want to release a good working base and see how much player use it. To see if it is worth more man power or if its a flop like the customization kiosk. Since we have seen any new character customization since the lease of the kiosk. Again, it's only my opinion on this issue. Some of the push back is to implement the guild aspects (a part of the game long overdue for some love and attention) with Guild Ships, Guild Strongholds and the Planetary conquest system (none of which has really been expounded on yet... well Guild Strongholds was given a brief mention last night, member can be given design rights and aid in the construction of a guild headquarters) The trouble with getting a barebones system out without a core feature is that the very consumer base you are trying to appeal to may look at it go 'My feature isn't in' and walk away, never to return. The customisation Kiosk is a sensitive issue for many as they feel purely cosmetic changes such as hairstyle and makeup should not cost CC but have a purely credit cost (and boycotted the feature because of the absence of this choice) I know 'Playing House' is not for everyone. PvPers want more WZ maps and better spec balance, PvEers want more Operations and Flashpoints and nearly everyone wants more Story content (Class specific or Faction based... just moar!) But for those that do want to move furniture around and set up their own movie sets being able to see all the members of your legacy is a huge part of that experience. I don't care for this feature of the game. Most likely my house is only going to have legacy bank in it and that is it. I need to start a thread and bash BW. I have to admit Legacy bank is the remaining interest I have in Stronghold at this point. I will see how much it is going to cost but it would be nice to be able to centralise some of the shared crafting components I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have to admit Legacy bank is the remaining interest I have in Stronghold at this point. I will see how much it is going to cost but it would be nice to be able to centralise some of the shared crafting components I have. Not to derail the thread but I really want to see how the legacy banks works. I have feeling I will have to wait for it to go to the PTS to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 These two points seem to miss one of the big reasons for wanting a stronghold in the first place. A sense of connection between the characters in a legacy. Perhaps for you, but highly doubt that is one of the big reasons that most other people want strongholds. Sure, it sounds neat....and a little creepy....to use your other characters as decorations, but not exactly an essential feature of strongholds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) What would be cool: Allow us to place alts and each alt-specific companion. Make it so that each can only be in one place (out of all strongholds) at one time. Make it so that alts and companions only show up as "real" if they belong to the active character, or the alt (and its companions) actually logged out in a stronghold. Otherwise, place a holo recording in their places. Presumably, the holo recording would be a personalized voice-mail system, as follows: o Allow players to select (on a per-char and per-companion basis) whether or not to display "current equipment" or use a saved configuration for the image. Bonus -- make "current equipment" the default, and sell (CM or CR) the ability to save/store/display alternate looks. o Companions on crew skill assignments would always be in holo form -- even the active character's. o The active character and the active character's active companion can show up in the assigned place as a holo even though the character and companion are right there. Allow users to toggle this (per-character, per-companion). o Companions on crew skill missions [or crafting] would always show up in holo form. o Optional: add purchasable "crafting tables" (on a per-craft basis, ofc) or "cratfing rooms" [preferably with a crafting bonus of some kind], and have comps actively crafting use them (some sort of animation). Again, leave the holo recording viewable if toggled. [Like if your cybertech is based in Nar Shadda but your cybertech station is in your Tatt stronghold].. The crafty companion would appear "real" at the crafting station. Most importantly: let players view (tooltip, dialog, anything cool or clever) the status of "nonpresent" chars/companions by interacting with the holo recording (e.g., identify the crew mission a companion is running, tell where a logged-out character is, tell the status of a companion that is "unavailable" due to current class story quest line, etc.). Unfortunately, I suspect it may be too late to do [some of] these things at this time, but I think they would be good for overall stronghold system because they not only make it (imo) a bit more immersive/fun just to screw around with, but because (and this is the big thing) it adds a level of character management "in-game", so there would be a practical benefit to owning and being in a stronghold. Bonus Upgrade 1: allow players to send alt companions on missions if they are physically present. Bonus Upgrade 2: allow some use of the holo-viewing management system remotely. The bonus upgrades are probably way out of the initial release scope, but are (imo) doable, and the sort of things that would make sense to add in as features after players begin to exhaust the initial features. Edited July 3, 2014 by eartharioch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) Perhaps for you, but highly doubt that is one of the big reasons that most other people want strongholds. Sure, it sounds neat....and a little creepy....to use your other characters as decorations, but not exactly an essential feature of strongholds. 'Decorations' is an unfortunate usage of word, it's just the basic term that seems to be adopted for any placeable within the stronghold. So really it's no more or less creepy than putting any other NPC in the stronghold. It's not as if you are actually having the alt or their companion stuffed and mounted for display... although for Malavai I might make an exception. I would rank its inclusion in Strongholds as a high priority. The fact that RP only servers still exist signifies a portion of the playerbase that like to put some elaboration into their characters above and beyond the basic content. A large part of the promotion of Strongholds is on Legacy. The Strongholds are shared across your Legacy, you don't have one Tatooine Stronghold per character, you have a single Tatooine Stronghold for that Legacy. It will be the home to your Legacy bank (full details of which still to be disclosed). The actual Stronghold will contain the achievements you unlock across all of the characters in that Legacy. But the core of that Legacy, the other characters and their companions, can't have a persistent presence? If there is a solid technical reason for that choice then I'll swallow it and move on (I've accepted the technical limitations of the engine a long time ago), If on the other hand they could implement persistent characters and companions in a Stronghold but they've decided not to, I'd seriously question their judgement on that call (and I've had no problem with many previous design decisions such as no day/ night cycle ) To be honest, I don't really like the sound of companions that aren't yours being displayed as holograms. Now that sounds creepy. From the Twitch stream, to place Blizz for every other character in your legacy to see as a hologram you have to place the actual companion there, a bit demeaning to your companions to really only treat them as decorations, sitting them on the stairwell so they can appear as holograms for other characters. I think that example underpins a loss of understanding on the devs side as to how many players have taken to their companions, a testimony to the quality of the individual companion stories, although I'd also understand it was just a poorly chosen example for the demonstration of companion placement. If I want a hologram of a companion I'd rather have the option to unlock/ earn a hologram unit and then set what it displays... Alt, Companion, NPC, Boss, etc... and position it where I want. Edited July 3, 2014 by Vhaegrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I wasn't too sure how it would be handled. I thought you might have discreet companion sound libraries that only apply for the class in question. I don't remember ever hearing another players companion speak when I'm grouped up but that might be because after two and a half years questing with companions I've learnt to filter them out The generic companion speech would be good enough for me. To be honest it's more their presence that I'm after rather than having a meaningful dialogue with them. Afterall, if I'm happy to put up with them lurking on a starship without feeling the need to click on them I don't see why that should impact on using them in the Stronghold in a similar manner I cannot recall if I hear other people companions (probably not, now that i think about it). It is most likely coded in such a way that only a given player can her that sound (to not annoy other players). It is not tied to a class, as you cannot hear other Consular's Qyzen when playing as Consular. However, it should be an "easy" piece of code to play that particular sound clip for all players in "hearing range". Writing some semi-random algorithm that would execute some preset of animations or spout some lines should not be that difficult. However, once again, i am speaking from a armchair developer (with some knowledge of programming) point of view, as I have no idea how much it would affect load times or things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I can't help but wonder if the restriction behind this is due to how your Stronghold would be displayed when other players visit it? It was mentioned that the Stronghold can be visited by allowed players (have a key or Stronghold on open access) when you are offline. Do they see all of your companions as holograms? Would there be a clash if I've positioned a 'Decoration' of my Main Character, other players are walking around my Stronghold while I am out questing on that Main Character, and when I return the 'Decoration' version disappears? It would be interesting to know the reasons behind making this choice and whether it is too late to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I cannot recall if I hear other people companions (probably not, now that i think about it). It is most likely coded in such a way that only a given player can her that sound (to not annoy other players). It is not tied to a class, as you cannot hear other Consular's Qyzen when playing as Consular. However, it should be an "easy" piece of code to play that particular sound clip for all players in "hearing range". Writing some semi-random algorithm that would execute some preset of animations or spout some lines should not be that difficult. However, once again, i am speaking from a armchair developer (with some knowledge of programming) point of view, as I have no idea how much it would affect load times or things like that. I can understand the silence from other players companions, it's bad enough in combat with Theran Cedrax telling me he's a pacifist every time he kills someone and the thought of hearing a room full of Treeks at the same time At launch I recall companions seemed to be more vocal, so there must be code in there that allows some adjustment. The same for the ships droid. Every time you walked past it would start to talk. So there must be code for a trigger zone around a companion. Since launch this trigger zone seems to have been reduced along with the droids verbal fecundity. Honestly, they should have just made the ship droid the practice dummy it would have been awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I can understand the silence from other players companions, it's bad enough in combat with Theran Cedrax telling me he's a pacifist every time he kills someone and the thought of hearing a room full of Treeks at the same time At launch I recall companions seemed to be more vocal, so there must be code in there that allows some adjustment. The same for the ships droid. Every time you walked past it would start to talk. So there must be code for a trigger zone around a companion. Since launch this trigger zone seems to have been reduced along with the droids verbal fecundity. Honestly, they should have just made the ship droid the practice dummy it would have been awesome During the beta you could hear other peoples companions, in fact you could hear them halfway across the zone. Nothing quite like hearing 50 or so Corsos telling someone they are now dumb, ugly and dead, just not in unison. Quite glad they fixed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebruixe Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 They never said never Neither did I... I didn't type that word lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebruixe Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Why are the companions holos anyway? They (virtually) exist, they hang arround with my character and in my ship. Why not in my strongold!? There is no need for a holographic replica of them. Agreed. It's dumb and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 During the beta you could hear other peoples companions, in fact you could hear them halfway across the zone. Nothing quite like hearing 50 or so Corsos telling someone they are now dumb, ugly and dead, just not in unison. Quite glad they fixed that. Ugh, I still have trouble using Corso just because of that... I think the problem was actually worse because you didn't actually hear their companion... you heard their companion through your own... so it sounded like they were right next to you every time... Extremely annoying. And for some reason it was mainly corso that you heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryand Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 On a side note, it would be nice if you could have companions placed sitting in chairs and doing emotes instead of just standing around. This of course goes for alts if they ever decide to improve their system to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 On a side note, it would be nice if you could have companions placed sitting in chairs and doing emotes instead of just standing around. This of course goes for alts if they ever decide to improve their system to support them. It would be nice to think that the system would eventually be expanded to allow for this. Just walking around the various urban locations in the game shows a variety of animations applied to NPCs. These animations could be static, timed loop or constant loop. If I was to really push the boat out it would be nice to see placeable items that have set interaction points. An example would be a training dummy where you link a companion to it, or a multiple link such as a training mat where you plug in two combatants of your choice. Taking that Idea one step further you could actually set the companion/alt up as the Training dummy so you could spar with them in your down time. I'm not so keen on the idea of patrol paths though. While they seem like a good idea at first I've always found them distracting when in a small environment. Example such as Skyrim where House Carls or Traders regularly get in the way of the crafting you wish to get on with, or end up with a bad path resolution or stuck in walls. Offering a range of already existing animations that can be activated on placed NPCs would be an ideal compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) Being able to "decorate" our stronghold with alts and actual (not holographic) companions of alts would be a great feature. Won't the developers reconsider this option? I would approve of allowing for such a feature only so long as players need to pay a set amount of CC per alt and per companion in order to show them in the Stronghold "normally." Edited July 4, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) I would approve of allowing for such a feature only so long as players need to pay a set amount of CC per alt and per companion in order to show them in the Stronghold "normally." W... Why ? Do you have EA shares or something ? Is your approval needed for this to happen ? Edited July 4, 2014 by Loc_n_lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) W... Why ? Do you have EA shares or something ? Is your approval needed for this to happen ? No, I detest EA almost as much as SOE. Also, no, my approval isn't required, but Forum Posting 101 indicates that when making a declaration, one should ensure that said declaration indicates that the poster is far more important than they really are. In all reality, Strongholds should be monetized as much as possible. If I had my way, they should only be purchasable with CC and players should have to pay a monthly rent in CC in order to maintain ownership. Any and all editing, changing, and items for them should also cost CC. If garbage such as this is what is being developed as content, then it needs to be monetized a heck of a lot more than it is now so we can get the funds to get some actual content developed for the game. Edited July 4, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxtes Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 And you are sure this income from cc will be used to improve the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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