Because the first Sith were humans, or rather exiled Jedi from Tython who stumbled upon the primitive Sith Species.

They then proceeded to enslave these species using the Force to elevate themselves to the status of gods, over time they interbred and the Sith Pureblood was born. They then began to expand their empire, enslaving 'alien' species to serve as an underclass. We have to remember that the Sith had a rigid caste system of Sith Lords, Preists, Engineers, Warriors (Massassi) and finally the slave caste known as 'Grottha' who were solely comprised of aliens.

So naturally, a xenophobia towards alien species is going to develop in such a caste-based culture, and humans and Sith are going to be elevated. This is not some arbitary attempt on BioWare's part to make the Sith more evil. This is a deep rooted facet of Sith Lore that has been around long before 'The Old Republic' was created.

Because Ajunta Pall was the first one who taught the dark side to the Sith, and he was human. Ajunta Pall was worshipped like a god to the Sith, who are force-sensitive but primitive at the time.

The Book of Sith describes how the Dark Jedi were amazed, and felt it was their destiny to be defeated at Corbos and driven into the Sith Empire, because the Sith had such a rich Dark Side-centric culture, even prior to the arrival of the exiles.

Because the first Sith were humans, or rather exiled Jedi from Tython who stumbled upon the primitive Sith Species.

 

They then proceeded to enslave these species using the Force to elevate themselves to the status of gods, over time they interbred and the Sith Pureblood was born. They then began to expand their empire, enslaving 'alien' species to serve as an underclass. We have to remember that the Sith had a rigid caste system of Sith Lords, Preists, Engineers, Warriors (Massassi) and finally the slave caste known as 'Grottha' who were solely comprised of aliens.

 

So naturally, a xenophobia towards alien species is going to develop in such a caste-based culture, and humans and Sith are going to be elevated. This is not some arbitary attempt on BioWare's part to make the Sith more evil. This is a deep rooted facet of Sith Lore that has been around long before 'The Old Republic' was created.

I don't think that justification flies. The original Sith Empire (as depicted in the Tales of the Jedi comic series) did not have any alien species. Mostly, it was located in a Hyperspace breakwater, and few beings managed to navigate into it, which allowed the Empire to stand undiscovered for two thousand years. They had, in fact, become alien to the galaxy in the strictest sense, and few Sith even knew that there was a Galactic Republic out there somewhere until Gav and Jori Daragon found Korriban by accident.

With the passing of the years, the sharp distinction between the Dark Jedi and the Sith species had become blurred, and the Lords of the Sith that had inherited power from their Dark Jedi predecessors (ancestors is too big a word, and two thousand years are more than enough to wrack most, if not all, distinct traits from mixed bloodlines - proof of that is that there were no humans in Naga Sadow's time), had to resort to showing any distinct evolutionary trace (such as having four fingers on the hands instead of three) as hailing from a Dark Jedi bloodline. In those days, what was revered was not pureblood Sith ancestry, but instead any traces of mixed blood. If you think carefully, there is not much chance that mixed blood could be considered a weakness, because the Empire lived in isolation. If there had been much influence of outside species before the Great Hyperspace War, they would not be considered a strength as they were in Sadow's time.

So, the creed of "blood purity" is a characteristic of Vitiate's Empire, not the Old Sith Empire (referring now to the Empire under Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Tulak Hord), and must have been developped during the 1300 years that the "new empire" remained in hiding. After that the Empire would have absorbed aliens into their culture (which were before then absent or at best a minor feature in the wide Empire), and then the "thinning of the blood" would begin.

If I were to hazard a guess into how that exactly played out, I would say Vitiate introduced the xenophobia as a part of the personality cult he ingrained in his empire - in order to keep the Sith Lords in control of things, he needed to create a loathing for alien species amongst both the Sith and the common citizenry of the Empire. And since the Sith had suffered much from the Great Hyperspace War, they may indeed have absorbed alien (in this case, human) populations. That would explain why humans are more numerous than the Red Sith in Vitiate's empire.

I don't think that justification flies. The original Sith Empire (as depicted in the Tales of the Jedi comic series) did not have any alien species. Mostly, it was located in a Hyperspace breakwater, and few beings managed to navigate into it, which allowed the Empire to stand undiscovered for two thousand years. They had, in fact, become alien to the galaxy in the strictest sense, and few Sith even knew that there was a Galactic Republic out there somewhere until Gav and Jori Daragon found Korriban by accident.

 

With the passing of the years, the sharp distinction between the Dark Jedi and the Sith species had become blurred, and the Lords of the Sith that had inherited power from their Dark Jedi predecessors (ancestors is too big a word, and two thousand years are more than enough to wrack most, if not all, distinct traits from mixed bloodlines - proof of that is that there were no humans in Naga Sadow's time), had to resort to showing any distinct evolutionary trace (such as having four fingers on the hands instead of three) as hailing from a Dark Jedi bloodline. In those days, what was revered was not pureblood Sith ancestry, but instead any traces of mixed blood. If you think carefully, there is not much chance that mixed blood could be considered a weakness, because the Empire lived in isolation. If there had been much influence of outside species before the Great Hyperspace War, they would not be considered a strength as they were in Sadow's time.

 

So, the creed of "blood purity" is a characteristic of Vitiate's Empire, not the Old Sith Empire (referring now to the Empire under Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos and Tulak Hord), and must have been developped during the 1300 years that the "new empire" remained in hiding. After that the Empire would have absorbed aliens into their culture (which were before then absent or at best a minor feature in the wide Empire), and then the "thinning of the blood" would begin.

 

If I were to hazard a guess into how that exactly played out, I would say Vitiate introduced the xenophobia as a part of the personality cult he ingrained in his empire - in order to keep the Sith Lords in control of things, he needed to create a loathing for alien species amongst both the Sith and the common citizenry of the Empire. And since the Sith had suffered much from the Great Hyperspace War, they may indeed have absorbed alien (in this case, human) populations. That would explain why humans are more numerous than the Red Sith in Vitiate's empire.

Lore on the Sith Empire has moved on since Tales of the Jedi.

So when existing canon doesn't suit your opinion you rewrite it?

 

Lore on the Sith Empire has moved on since Tales of the Jedi.

I am not rewriting anything, I am analysing the circumstances based on what information is available to me. But you probably refer to some retcon material that was introduced after TOR came out to "mend the inconsistencies" (deliberately introduced, mind you) by contradicting previous canon. That's the problem with the EU, and it's really annoying, because it shows a great disrespect towards previous EU authors.

I would think it would be almost second nature to people to try and preserve consistency. There are ways of getting the SWTOR storyline unchanged, without trampling previous canon. Apparently I'm the only one who thinks so. But I haven't heard that social relations in the Sith Empire were completely retconned. The fact remains the same: before, traits that distancd a Sith Lord from the pureblood Sith species were viewed as a sign of a powerful bloodline. Whereas in SWTOR, it's the other way around, people want more Sith-traits so they can claim they descend from powerful bloodlines.

The problem with the SWTOR approach to things is this - why are the Sith xenophobes? If the first Lords of the Sith were aliens to the Sith species, why would their "heirs" have any particular problem with that? They can despise weakness, as every Sith does, but associate blood impurity with weakness would require some better explanation than a sidenote on a retcon sourcebook.

Instead of assuming that has always been the case, why not breathe some life to these fictitious societies, and have them undergo some significant changes over the passing of time, especially after such a galactic upheaval as the Great Hyperspace War? But if you put the Sith Empire in a cast, and just say "no, they always have had craploads of alien species as slaves and they always were xenophobic and they revered purity of Sith blood above all else", you take away from the richness of the Star Wars universe.

And there is another little problem - whereas the Sith Emperor is powerful, I cannot swallow the fact that he could efficiently curb the lust for power of other Sith Lords without a significant change in societal paradigm. Which is to say the Sith changed while under his rule. Look at the Sith code's closing sentences: "Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me." Every Sith who abides by the Sith Code would think of a way to trample the Emperor. That can be lessened, however, by the introduction of the personality cult that is a canon fact. Much like the Nazi society worshipped Hitler's personality. Guess what Hitler also did? He introduced extreme xenophobia to Nazi Germany. In fact, the resemblance between Hitler and Vitiate go beyond - both tried to salvage a failing society, and introduced extremist beliefs, personality cult, racial supremacy xenophobia and paranoia. Both succeeded, and produced fascist states (not that the Sith Empire before Vitiate was not fascist, but that's beside the point) centred around warfare mostly.

So the Empire's xenophobia is a manner to curb the greed of other Sith Lords. If each one thinks he's more worthy of power than his fellow Sith Lord, whom he deems to be of lesser lineage, he'll waste himself plotting against his rival rather than plotting to unseat the Emperor.

You'd be correct in thinking what you are saying disputes canon, just because we don't see aliens in Tales of the Jedi doesn't mean they don't exist - indeed is incredibly far fetched to claim that they don't, for several reasons.

The Sith Empire did have numerous alien species amongst their ranks before the Jedi Exiles even arrived on the planet. Its illogical to assume that the Sith Empire, which spanned hundreds of worlds and hundreds of worlds more after the onset of the Golden Age did not come across a single other alien race and existed in total seclusion. In fact they even went as far as to encroach on Republic territory, striking at Republic aligned worlds and enslaving their populations.

Slavery has always been a fundamental facet on the Sith Empire, and that simply couldn't exist without alien species to enslave, which made up their entire slave caste. We may not see this caste in Tales of the Jedi but that does not mean they exist, but that the writers only chose to depict the warrior and ruler classes. What you are implying is that slavery simply didn't exist until the onset of Vitiate's Empire, but clearly this is not the case.

Given that, if all aliens are relegated to a slave caste, then naturally xenophobia is going to ensue.

P.S. This can all be found in the Book of Sith - if you do indeed own it I'd encourage you to turn to page 34.

EDIT: Concerning this whole Pureblood buisness, I'd challenge the assertion that pure human was valued over 'Pureblood' i.e. human, Sith hybrid. When the exiles arrived on Korriban they encouraged interbreeding, and the resultant species was stronger and more powerful than both their human and Sith predecessors - a superior species. So naturally that's going to be something everyone want's to attain to, its simply a better species.

EDIT: To add to the above, consider the appearance of 'modern' purebloods. They are not the tendriled, four fingered creatures of the Ancient era, some of them look completely human, but simply with red skin. I'd assume this is what Sith valued the most, pure Dark Jedi lineage. If I recall a quest you undertake seeing if people are pure doesn't involve looking a skin colour, but purity of blood.

I assume what he meant is blood closest to that of the Dark Jedi. Naturally given that fact that all almost the Dark Jedi interbred this is going to be the Purebloods, not the Humans - but could also be humans too.

Its obviously a lot more complex that simple temperance.

And there is another little problem - whereas the Sith Emperor is powerful, I cannot swallow the fact that he could efficiently curb the lust for power of other Sith Lords without a significant change in societal paradigm. Which is to say the Sith changed while under his rule. Look at the Sith code's closing sentences: "Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me." Every Sith who abides by the Sith Code would think of a way to trample the Emperor.

What's more ,any did rebel against the Emperor. Did you not visit the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas? A temple built specifically to house the Emperor's enemies? And what about the Dark Council? Who twice rebelled (and were promptly crushed) against the Emperor? And I'm sure there are many other occassions.

The Emperor was not without competitors, he was just so powerful he could bat them away with ease. Xenophobia was not 'introduced' by the Emperor (he's powerful, but the idea that he could rework the thought patterns of an entire culture is somewhat absurb) they were already present, because aliens are, to Sith, slaves.

And the only thing I can see this conflicting with is Tales of the Jedi not bothering to delve deeply into Sith culture, which I guess one can't blame them for. The stories concern Kings and Lords, not the slaves working behind the scenes. Though I'd be suprised if it failed to mention that the Sith Empire was built on the backs of slaves.

You'd be correct in thinking what you are saying disputes canon, just because we don't see aliens in Tales of the Jedi doesn't mean they don't exist - indeed is incredibly far fetched to claim that they don't, for several reasons.

 

The Sith Empire did have numerous alien species amongst their ranks before the Jedi Exiles even arrived on the planet. Its illogical to assume that the Sith Empire, which spanned hundreds of worlds and hundreds of worlds more after the onset of the Golden Age did not come across a single other alien race and existed in total seclusion. In fact they even went as far as to encroach on Republic territory, striking at Republic aligned worlds and enslaving their populations.

It makes sense that the Empire would have come across aliens in their period, through invasion and expansion. But slaves need not necessarily come from alien species. We humans ourselves were more than content to enslave our own, more often than not on account of perceived differences of race. For the Sith, this could easily translate into a single concept - those who are Force-sensitive are free to do as they please (Sith purebloods were more than once stated to possess a larger than average connection with the Force), whereas those who were not would either be conscripted as warriors (massassi) or right out made slaves of. So saying the Sith, being immoral as they were, would not enslave their own is misguided in my opinion, even if there were plenty of aliens out and about.

Slavery has always been a fundamental facet on the Sith Empire, and that simply couldn't exist without alien species to enslave, which made up their entire slave caste. We may not see this caste in Tales of the Jedi but that does not mean they exist, but that the writers only chose to depict the warrior and ruler classes. What you are implying is that slavery simply didn't exist until the onset of Vitiate's Empire, but clearly this is not the case.

 

Given that, if all aliens are relegated to a slave caste, then naturally xenophobia is going to ensue.

 

P.S. This can all be found in the Book of Sith - if you do indeed own it I'd encourage you to turn to page 34.

Well, it sounds kinda wonky, in my opinion, to say the slaves simply didn't show up on TotJ. Other approaches could conciliate with that source in greater harmony. I already stated what I think would be better, so I won't repeat myself And I wasn't implying that slavery did not exist, in fact quite the opposite - just as the Dark Jedi exiles made slaves of the Sith, so would the GHW Sith Lords make slaves of their own kind.

Some of Sadow's lines throw insight into this - he says Ludo Kressh had too much slave blood in his veins, and Kressh had more pureblood traits than Sadow, who was viewed as closer to the Dark Jedi.

And I do own the Book of Sith, and have read it. I knew it speaks about the aliens and all that, but I do need some anti-establishment rant sometimes

EDIT: Concerning this whole Pureblood buisness, I'd challenge the assertion that pure human was valued over 'Pureblood' i.e. human, Sith hybrid. When the exiles arrived on Korriban they encouraged interbreeding, and the resultant species was stronger and more powerful than both their human and Sith predecessors - a superior species. So naturally that's going to be something everyone want's to attain to, its simply a better species.

That was the case, up until the Great Hyperspace War. But it's not what we see in the game, and Vitiate's empire prizes pure Sith bloodlines above anything else. Surely this could have its roots in the old superstition that the Dark Jedi blood meant inherited power, but it would also be plausible to state that, after 3300 years since the end of the Hundred Year Darkness, those lineages would've become even more blurred than the faint line parting ordinary humans from the Red Sith in SWTOR's day.

EDIT: To add to the above, consider the appearance of 'modern' purebloods. They are not the tendriled, four fingered creatures of the Ancient era, some of them look completely human, but simply with red skin. I'd assume this is what Sith valued the most, pure Dark Jedi lineage. If I recall a quest you undertake seeing if people are pure doesn't involve looking a skin colour, but purity of blood.

 

I assume what he meant is blood closest to that of the Dark Jedi. Naturally given that fact that all almost the Dark Jedi interbred this is going to be the Purebloods, not the Humans - but could also be humans too.

 

Its obviously a lot more complex that simple temperance.

The quest-giver doesn't delve much deep into why purity of blood was important to the Sith Empire, but he does state that the red skin was the "most telling indicator of a powerful heritage, but not the only one". So whereas he had his doubts about every Human Overseer in the Academy, a red-skinned humanoid would not arouse any suspicion, because the Red Sith are the Sith Empire. Now, it is possible other Red Sith were assumed to have Dark Jedi blood, but anyone with half a brain could know that would be highly unlikely, unless the twelve exiles that came to Korriban bred like rabbits (or Gengis Khan). And besides, after 3300 years, these inherited traits would not matter anyways, since there were strictly no purebloods left, only near-human hybrids.

In a way, Sith blood is treated almost like the Aryan racial traits of Nazi germany. Many were the aryans, but not all were blonde with blue eyes. In SWTOR, many had Sith blood, but few the red marks.

It makes sense that the Empire would have come across aliens in their period, through invasion and expansion. But slaves need not necessarily come from alien species. We humans ourselves were more than content to enslave our own, more often than not on account of perceived differences of race. For the Sith, this could easily translate into a single concept - those who are Force-sensitive are free to do as they please (Sith purebloods were more than once stated to possess a larger than average connection with the Force), whereas those who were not would either be conscripted as warriors (massassi) or right out made slaves of. So saying the Sith, being immoral as they were, would not enslave their own is misguided in my opinion, even if there were plenty of aliens out and about.

Its here I'd like to point out that non-Force sensitive Sith were extremely rare, and that all Massassi were Force Sensitive. I highly doubt any of these would have been relegated to the level of slave considering their power.

But back on the topic of aliens, in Sith Space alone they controlled over one hundred worlds, and more outside it. Each world would have been populated by millions if not billions of live forms, many of them sentient. I fully expect that the alien population of the Sith Empire was larger than that of the Sith, who were one race amongst many. They would have had an abundance of alien species, all of which would have been fit for nothing other than slavery.

This of course, is all born out of xenophobia, the only logical reaction Sith could have to other species - unless they proved themselves superior like the Dark Jedi. But they would have been instead be perceived as weak.

Well, it sounds kinda wonky, in my opinion, to say the slaves simply didn't show up on TotJ. Other approaches could conciliate with that source in greater harmony. I already stated what I think would be better, so I won't repeat myself And I wasn't implying that slavery did not exist, in fact quite the opposite - just as the Dark Jedi exiles made slaves of the Sith, so would the GHW Sith Lords make slaves of their own kind.

 

Some of Sadow's lines throw insight into this - he says Ludo Kressh had too much slave blood in his veins, and Kressh had more pureblood traits than Sadow, who was viewed as closer to the Dark Jedi.

 

And I do own the Book of Sith, and have read it. I knew it speaks about the aliens and all that, but I do need some anti-establishment rant sometimes

Tales of the Jedi either short shortsightedly overlooked this, or just didn't bother exploring Sith Culture beneath the upper castes. I mean do we actually see any slaves of any kind? If not how can we claim they are alien or not? Regardless I'd place them firmly in the wrong, especially given the fact that almost every other source making mention of the ancient Sith after them factored in alien slaves, I expect they thought it a no brainer.

And then of course we have to somehow come up with a theory as to how exactly the Sith Emperor reforged the entire culture of the Sith, and reconcile the idea that he did this as some obscure power play with our logic. And then we have to accept that the Emperor's plan failed, because infighting and attempts to take his throne where widespread.

Or we could just accept the Sith Empire had alien slaves. Because they went out a conquered places.

The quest-giver doesn't delve much deep into why purity of blood was important to the Sith Empire, but he does state that the red skin was the "most telling indicator of a powerful heritage, but not the only one". So whereas he had his doubts about every Human Overseer in the Academy, a red-skinned humanoid would not arouse any suspicion, because the Red Sith are the Sith Empire. Now, it is possible other Red Sith were assumed to have Dark Jedi blood, but anyone with half a brain could know that would be highly unlikely, unless the twelve exiles that came to Korriban bred like rabbits (or Gengis Khan). And besides, after 3300 years, these inherited traits would not matter anyways, since there were strictly no purebloods left, only near-human hybrids.

 

In a way, Sith blood is treated almost like the Aryan racial traits of Nazi germany. Many were the aryans, but not all were blonde with blue eyes. In SWTOR, many had Sith blood, but few the red marks.

In the Sith Empire, as time progressed pure-blooded Sith were steadily bred out,[5] resulting in only a few pure-blooded Sith left in the Sith Empire by the time of the Great Hyperspace War.[14] Long after, the true species in the Empire were believed have gone extinct due to the interbreeding process.[24]

The original Sith Species went extinct after a complete interbreeding with their Dark Jedi counterparts, of which I can assure you there were more than 12. We are talking about every survivor of the Hundred Year Darkness, that's got to be more than a dozen. Regardless what we do know is that by the time of the Great Hyperspace War pretty much every single Sith had human/Dark Jedi blood. These Sith became the direct descendants of the 'Purebloods' we see in the Great Galactic War era, all of which would have had Dark Jedi blood also.

Really what this quest-giver is espousing is the beliefs of the Ancient Sith, that what is valued is Dark Jedi blood, not Sith blood. But Sith are simply more likely to possess it than humans. But because humans can possess it they are really no more favored in the social hierarchy. Most are regarded as superior species.

Did I ever say they would not enslave their own? No. Though comparing the Sith (a fictional species no less) to the human race is rather illogical, who else are we going to enslave? Monkeys? Obviously slaves in the Sith Empire are going to consist primarily of non-Sith races who by way of their very culture they are going to perceive as an underclass. Could you really perceive a Twi'lek becoming a high priest? Or a Sith Lord? Of course not, the Sith were a 'special' species in the sense that they possessed an innate connection to the dark side of the Force and in general superior biological capabilities to most other species. That and the blood of the Dark Jedi.

Of course given the chance, humans would also enslave other "sentient species". But that would not preclude the racial supremacist views that caused the enslavement of black and indigenous populations in the colony time Americas, and since the Sith are so committed to their extremist views on power and such, they would enforce it to keep their own species in line. What better ways to keep the Massassi from revolting? Sadow showed how deadly a massassi revolt can be even to their Sith Lord masters, and it would be quite obvious they would have been ostracised, giving Sadow ample opportunity to play on that and use them to get rid of his rival Sith Lords during Kressh's coup.

Its here I'd like to point out that non-Force sensitive Sith were extremely rare, and that all Massassi were Force Sensitive. I highly doubt any of these would have been relegated to the level of slave considering their power.

I find myself with a shortage of sources to actually debunk this, outside of wookieepedia, but it does state (and offers the source) that like all the Sith species, the majority was Force-sensitive, but some were not. I may be picking nits here, but I would definetly say non-Force sensitives in the Sith society would be ostracised, especially after the coming of the Dark Jedi. So any Sith who was not force-sensitive would be tossed to the slave pits, no doubt.

But back on the topic of aliens, in Sith Space alone they controlled over one hundred worlds, and more outside it. Each world would have been populated by millions if not billions of live forms, many of them sentient. I fully expect that the alien population of the Sith Empire was larger than that of the Sith, who were one race amongst many. They would have had an abundance of alien species, all of which would have been fit for nothing other than slavery.

If they were such widespread conquerors in a time when the Republic was in expansion, then I call it bullsh*t that the Republic was never aware of another hungry expansionist power out there. If you look at the Rakata Infinite Empire, it may not have contained more than a few thousand star systems, but these were spread out throughout the galaxy. The Sith Empire could contain the same ammount of systems and still be restricted to a very specific region of space (in fact, they were!), which could mean they wouldn't have oh-so-many aliens as enslaved subjects. Because a restricted region of space would not have such a multitude of alien species (including humans!), and many planets in the Empire (such as Korriban, Khar Delba and Ziost) were not exactly the most friendly environments that spawned the most diverse and fascinating life-forms, all with genetic compatibility with the Sith to breed themselves into their master's bloodlines.

This of course, is all born out of xenophobia, the only logical reaction Sith could have to other species - unless they proved themselves superior like the Dark Jedi. But they would have been instead be perceived as weak.

Of course all non-Force sensitives would be shunned in Sith culture, and possibly especially the aliens. Some Sith Lords with no love for pragmatism would even feel insulted (as those in Vitiate's Empire did) when faced with an alien Force-sensitive, but Naga Sadow, Dark Lord of the Sith, had different thoughts (he took Gav Daragon as his apprentice, I remind you). And I would venture a guess that even Marka Ragnos thought the same. After all, he declared Exar Kun, who had nothing to do with the Sith purebloods, Dark Lord of the Sith with the words "because of you the true Sith will never die".

So it seems quite logical to me to assume that those who were in power before Vitiate's own day had more pragmatic approaches to this whole matter. They recognised that xenophobia and ostracism had its uses - but they were not bound by such prejudices, which allowed Sadow to both spark a war against the Republic and prepare the ground for the coming of a "new breed" (so to speak) of Sith, ones who were the philosophical heirs of the purebloods in the old Empire, but not bound by such foolish tenets. It's evolution.

And I find the idea that the Sith, a barbaric species of conquerors just ignored the abundance of alien races around them to be, well, hard to believe. The only way in which that logic could work if is the Sith never left Korriban, and never interacted with alien populations. Because if they did (and they did) they would enslave them, no doubt about it, and they would have encountered them in the billions.

The Sith were also fond of conducting genocide. As The Book of Sith states, on page 34 (I believe you directed me to that page, didn't you?)

Encounters with the Anzati and the Rakata during the time of King Adas proved to the Sith that they were not the only ones among the stars the Force had animated. This offended their pride and inflamed their fury.

That passage supports a natural predisposition at xenophobia, but it doesn't end here.

The Massassi were unleashed on neighboring worlds to snuff out all life and to expand the Sith Empire.

So they really were exterminators, that's the realisation of their xenophobia. And I wouldn't see that changing much after the arrival of the Dark Jedi - adding now the factor their descendants would certainly take up aliens now to add the bit of torture of Alchemical manipulations, or perhaps using them to feed their already-existing alchemical monstrosities. Not a very welcoming perspective, and it certainly would consistently thin out the alien population.

The account goes on to describe some of the species employed by the Sith as slaves, and that led Sorzus Syn to believe the Sith had conducted raids into Republic worlds and remained undetected. But raids are one thing, conquest is another. And the addendum by Mace Windu says historians believe these Sith slaves were plucked from refugee populations escaping conflict and unrest. Which does not mean they would be necessarily large in numbers, as would occur if the Sith conquered a homeworld of a given species.

Tales of the Jedi either short shortsightedly overlooked this, or just didn't bother exploring Sith Culture beneath the upper castes. I mean do we actually see any slaves of any kind? If not how can we claim they are alien or not? Regardless I'd place them firmly in the wrong, especially given the fact that almost every other source making mention of the ancient Sith after them factored in alien slaves, I expect they thought it a no brainer.

I agree with that. The depiction of the Empire in TotJ does not go much beyond the ruling castes, maybe it is short-sightedness, but you don't need to see the hosts of slaves to find the Sith are evil. Just as the Galactic Empire, who was set out as a majour user of slave labour, didn't have its societal structures laid bare before the viewers in the films - you can guess they're evil mofos without that one. It's not slavery that drives the Sith Empire, it's the tyranny of its magocratic rulers. Slavery would happen to be a part of it, but it's not what defines it.

So instead of blaming the TotJ authors, blame other EU authors that did not delve deeper into it in the long fifteen years since TotJ ended (1996) and SWTOR came out (2011) followed by the host of other sources now eager to tap into SWTOR's impact on the EU culture and expand upon this weird Sith Empire seen in the mid 90's and forsaken in favour of closer-to-profit EU periods. That was a rant, I know.

And then of course we have to somehow come up with a theory as to how exactly the Sith Emperor reforged the entire culture of the Sith, and reconcile the idea that he did this as some obscure power play with our logic. And then we have to accept that the Emperor's plan failed, because infighting and attempts to take his throne where widespread.

 

Or we could just accept the Sith Empire had alien slaves. Because they went out a conquered places.

Attempts as bold as Darth Nyriis' Dark Council insurrection and Darth Baras' claim to be the Voice of the Emperor all ended in bloody disasters that played into Vitiate's interests. SO much so that he remained the undisputed ruler for 1300 years, built a consistent personality cult revolving around the worship of him as the god and saviour of the Sith Empire, and all conspirators could do was moan and try to find a way to pierce his ruler armour. And make no mistake, infighting weakened the Sith Empire, but it's bloodiest civil wars ensued only after the death of his latest Voice. And I would hazard a guess, and say that the Sith Empire will only fall when Vitiate is truly dead. Which (I am almost sure) is to come on future installments of the game.

From Wookieepedia:

 

In the Sith Empire, as time progressed pure-blooded Sith were steadily bred out,[5] resulting in only a few pure-blooded Sith left in the Sith Empire by the time of the Great Hyperspace War.[14] Long after, the true species in the Empire were believed have gone extinct due to the interbreeding process.[24]

 

The original Sith Species went extinct after a complete interbreeding with their Dark Jedi counterparts, of which I can assure you there were more than 12. We are talking about every survivor of the Hundred Year Darkness, that's got to be more than a dozen. Regardless what we do know is that by the time of the Great Hyperspace War pretty much every single Sith had human/Dark Jedi blood. These Sith became the direct descendants of the 'Purebloods' we see in the Great Galactic War era, all of which would have had Dark Jedi blood also.

There were twelve. From the Book of Sith, page 10:

There were twelve of us, including several ranking commanders: High General Ajunta Pall, Marchioness XoXaan, commander of the Black Legions, Baron Dreypa, our fleet's sole remaining admiral; Karness Muur, whose Force-centered battle tactics had saved us from the trap at Fluwhaka; and I, Sorzus Syn, grower of living weapons and biological plagues. Other less distinguished Dark Jedi were prominent within our company only because they had not perished in the war.

Twelve in-breeding and thinning out the bloodlines of an entire empire? They were absorbed early on, by breeding into the Sith species alchemically. Dark Jedi blood was not a widespread thing - if you look at the Sith council in TotJ, Naga Sadow is the only one with closer-to-human features. That is a fact. The majority of Sith were alien-looking, with crooked legs, those odd eyebrow-stalks, the tendrils, protruding chin, thick hair and three or four fingers on their hands.

Now, at some point in time, the predominance of the red Sith in Vitiate's Empire turned to a predominance of humans, albeit theoretically with Sith blood. This could have begun to happen shortly after the GHW, but there is no exact indication of when it began. That's something I have a problem with, because it is an inconsistency that was deliberately introduced (to make Vitiate's Empire a lot more like Palpatine's), but not a single decent explanation is offered, and people shore up on retcon material to say that the Red Sith in TotJ were already more human than Sith, when clearly they are not.

Bioware has shown great respect for TotJ in its depiction of the Sith Empire in the Galactic Timeline videos, and Gnost-Dural goes to great length to highlight the perceived differences between the Old Sith Empire and Vitiate's Sith Empire. That is a major hook that was to be explored in a sensible manner, not just dealt with by a cheesy retcon of a classic source material for the time period in which TOR is inserted.

Really what this quest-giver is espousing is the beliefs of the Ancient Sith, that what is valued is Dark Jedi blood, not Sith blood. But Sith are simply more likely to possess it than humans. But because humans can possess it they are really no more favored in the social hierarchy. Most are regarded as superior species.

Really, that's not what he espouses. I have played that class quest recently. He speaks ominously about "powerful heritages", but he is far more vocal about purity of Sith ancestry. He speaks of the "red markings", lacking in the overseers, he says that the pureblooded traits such as red skin and face tendrils and eye stalks were the mightiest indicators of a powerful heritage. Nothing about Dark Jedi in there, especially once you consider the Massassi, for example, (which were of purer Sith blood than a Dark Jedi descendant as Naga Sadow) had all those features, and the Massassi bred as much as their fellow Sith Lords (most likely more, I think).

Proof of that is the case of Darth Ikoral. He was a firm believer in the purity of blood tenets of the Sith Empire, even going so far as purging the alien Sith wherever he could find them (in that he considered the humans to be alien as well - all of his servants and SIth Lords were Red Sith). Surely he took it to the extreme, since aliens (even non-humans) were gradually being accepted into the academies, but he represented the views of the Sith Empire that were only recently beginning to change.

But that change affected the overall paradigm little, and aliens were still not respected, even if elevated to Sith status. Just look at the fits Darth Ravage throws when Marr makes the Inquisitor a Dark Council member, if the guy (on top of not being a Darth) was also an alien. Fun to watch, because Marr knows what's what and tells Ravage to shut it, right before annointing the Inqy Darth Nox (this attitude by Marr echoes Sadow's pragmatic approach to taking apprentices and what he actually thinks about blood purity, as does his supporting of Darth Karrid instead of Darth Gravus for the seat on the Sphere of Technology).

Now I'll grant that a scholar amongst the Sith might know that the Sith of the Old Empire revered those with Dark Jedi blood, and might make connections between their own creed of blood purity to the Empire's old creed of blood impurity, but that's mindless rationalisation. And definetly was not widespread knowledge, or else you'd hear them go on to no end about the Jen'jidai, which you don't. All you hear of is humans elevated because they had Sith blood, and Sith purebloods elevated above the others, and when Sith talk about their ancestors, they don't talk about Exark Kun and Darth Revan, but instead of Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, Ludo Kressh, Vitiate. Ajunta Pall figures here and there, but past Korriban you never hear his name so much as mentioned again, which shows how many f*cks Vitiate's Sith give about the Dark Jedi and first Lords of the Sith.

It's actually quite nice, if you put it in plain terms, that this sort of reversal of paradigm (Sadow's Sith believing the hybrid traits marked them as special as opposed to Vitiate's Sith believing more SIth traits marked them as special) took place - it can be the descendants of the Old Sith are clinging to dying traditions - of reverence for Dark Jedi ancestry. But since there is so little Sith blood (and by extension Sith-Dark Jedi hybrid blood), they made their reverence to stand on its head, and instead wished they had less human traits so they can be more like their own heroes: Vitiate, Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos, much closer and much more accomplished than their Dark Jedi "ancestors", who only achieved the domination of the Sith and not much more than that.

1. Your debating a moot point here, I already stated that I don't dispute the fact that Sith enslaved their own kind, but none of the above disputes the fact that the slave caste primarily consisted of aliens, and the fact that this makes logical and cultural sense. Furthermore your comparison to human activity is only a demonstration of what we see (but what you refuse to see) here, Sith enslaving other species upon invading and conquering their planets. Just like human populations enslaved black and indigenous people, they did not ignore them and let them go on their merry way.

2. And that's the case. What happened to those few who were not Force sensitive if questionable, in the current Sith Empire they were still highly regarded and lived comfortable lives. Regardless the point is that they were the minority, the Sith makeup of the empire's slave population was a minority.

3. Are you aware of how many sentient species there are in the Star Wars galaxy? 20 million. You'd think the areas which the Sith Empire conquered might have had a few dozen, no? I expect a lot more than that, and any planet that did have sentient live probably had in numbering in the thousands, if not millions. Lots of slaves. And then of course we have to account for the swathes of refugees coming in from the Tapani sector (which is where the humans came from.) And then of course we have to take into account Sith expansion outside of the Stygian Caldera, which happened. You say the Republic would have noticed, but that's based on the assumption that at this time the Republic was a full fledged state that spanned the entire galaxy. It wasn't, the few raids on small Outer Rim worlds would go unnoticed.

4. I'm fairly sure Naga Sadow was regarded as quite progressive, and that angered a lot of the traditional Sith. These people are products of their culture, a culture that values things like blood and lineage. Of course we also have to consider that Gav Daragon and Exar Kun were human. The race of the Dark Jedi. What aliens did the Sith come across and accept into their ranks? And what of the non-Force sensitives, were they exalted too?

5. Your point being? That the Sith decided to slaughter every single alien they came across? Hardly the portrait of pragmatism and progressiveness. The Sith are not idiots, they were not blood thirsty savages. I'm sure they had no qualms about slaughtering some peoples here and there, but killing every alien they come across, just because, is hardly intelligent. Regardless you forget the point, xenophobia, genocide doesn't make them any more accepting of alien species, it just proves how much they despised them and regarded them as dirt.

6. Refer to the above. My point is that the Sith Empire's attitude towards aliens from the moment of their conception has been animosity, they either enslaved them, or slaughtered them. How many they killed and how many they enslaved doesn't matter, this was their attitude and was passed down to the resurgent Sith Empire of the Great Galactic War era, and is why the Sith are so xenophobic. Not because the Sith Emperor made them like that.

7. I don't blame anyone, that seems to be your perspective. It seems to me that the Tales of the Jedi introduced a concept, and other EU authors extrapolated on it in logical and illuminating ways.

8. Exactly, the Sith Emperor was so powerful that the whole idea of attempting to repress his people by encouraging xenophobia would be a pointless endeavor. If anyone tries to challenge him, he has them destroyed. However these revolts did happen, and they were not brought down by the 'xenophobic complex'.

9. Well, makes you wonder why they didn't just kill them all. Anyway, appearances can be deceiving, and it doesn't help that we don't have a clear cut image of exactly what the Sith used to look like. That said Ludo Kressh was a hybrid, and he looked pretty 'alien' - so I'd assume they all were too. Then we have to consider the mass genocide of the Sith race which I expect took a big chunk out of any remaining pure Sith. And the possibility that later interbreeding with other humans over the next 1,300 years would have bred them out even more.

10. Perhaps the paradigm did reverse, a lot can change over 1,300 years. Though all in all I never noticed the whole Pureblood thing being particularly marked at all, humans seems just as well regarded and in fact humans are the dominant species on the Dark Council (there is one pureblood, one.)

3. There is still no factual basis to say all those aliens were as common as you would believe (they would certainly not outnumber the Red Sith). Because the Sith were quite happy with crafting genocide rather than just controlling worlds. From what it seemed of Sorzus Syn's accounts, they were more fond of exterminating the local populace, enslaving the few remnants and placing their own people/creations to replace the former inhabitants.

4. The Dark Jedi were largely irrelevant after the fall of the Old Sith Empire. The Old Sith were dead, or hiding, and the new Sith that replaced them (the batch trained by Freedon Nadd) had little but philosophy in common with the old magocrats of the Sith Empire. And just as they were irrelevant to Exar Kun and his Sith, Bioware shows that to Vitiate's Sith the Dark Jedi Exiles bore only marginal relevance, enough to earn them honourable mentions as the creators of the Old Sith Empire but nothing more than that. And Dark Jedi do not factor in whenever Vitiate's Sith are seen talking about blood purity, which happens a lot on Korriban, but not so much beyond that.

5. This has nothing to do with the pragmatism I mentioned before. Sorzus Syn's account relates to events that predated the coming of the Dark Jedi, and the most inventive and important Sith rulers had Dark Jedi blood. So the Dark Jedi could've "broken the ice", and inserted some more practical elements into the plastered, superstitious culture of the ancient Sith species. So, maybe the genocides weren't the rule of the Sith invasions after the coming of the Lords of the Sith, but again, no source blatantly indicates or expands upon that.

6. Does it occur to you the xenophobia could have been much intensified by Vitiate? He had many ways to play with the minds of his subjects so they would rely on him for salvation - he did it on the pilgrimage to Dromund Kaas, he did it in keeping the Empire isolated for 1300 years, he did it in curbing the greed of individual, power-hungry Sith Lords during all that time. Xenophobia would be a sure way to get the masses of the Sith Empire to dance to Vitiate's music, and after 1300 years it could be incorporated into the entire Sith society, rooting out the sort of pragmatism Naga Sadow displayed in his dealings, leaving only a few Sith Lords (like Malgus and Zash and maybe even Thanaton) who actually cared only for power regardless of species or ascendancy.

7. My problem lies in the fact many of these sources do not care to do much more than trample and contradict TotJ. And the reasons behind such contradictions lie in the fact they want to make the Sith Empire look like a carbon copy of Palpatine's empire. Hence, the emphasis on military might over Sith powers, the humanocentric culture (which really shores up on the claim that the Empire's humans mostly descended from the Red Sith), the characteristic xenophobia as a majour plot element and so on.

8. The Emperor was more of a reclusive man. The fact he created the Dark Council to begin with was so that he could focus less in matters of the state and more on his own delvings into the Force. But everything he did was calculated, and very well calculated, in that even after waiving the control of his expansive military wing to the care of other Sith Lords, and still there was no armed insurrection against him (just bomb the hell out of the Sith Academy - even Vitiate wouldn't survive that one) until his presumed death at Dromund Kaas in the end of the Galactic War. In order to ensure control in his absence from the rulership of the Empire, Vitiate had many mechanisms. One of them (belonging to the later years of his Empire) was the existance of the Wrath. But before Darth Nyriis' insurrection there weren't many conspiracies against him, or at least none that were as dangerous to the Dark Lord of the Sith that he would act on it as decisively as he did in the Dark Council purge.

Xenophobia could be one such tool of control, and it is often effective in dealing with the lower castes. Even a poor Sith-descended factory worker would have better life condition than an alien or a slave, so they could feel content.

9. Ludo Kressh "had too much slave blood in his veins" as Sadow put it. Which is to say he had Sith blood rather than DJ one. I assume you meant to say Sadow looked pretty alien? Yeah, that's true, he had red skin. But his features were much closer to a human's than every other Sith Lord in the Council. And the SC was like Vitiate's Dark Council, only less powerful in that the Dark Lord held total dominance of every aspect of the Sith Empire, at all times, unlike with Vitiate who was content to let the DC take care of things while he had fun with the Force.

And those last statements are what I have been defending all along! The true thinning of the Sith blood began after the Great Hyperspace War! It's the only way to concile Vitiate's Empire with Sadow's. I am aware of the Wookieepedia article that says that most were hybrids in Sadow's time, but I dispute that statement. And if it is transcribed faithfully from any Star Wars source material, I dispute that as well, canon or not. That doesn't make sense with what is seen in TotJ (and I fail to see why people should just dismiss TotJ by retconning too many of the aspects first introduced there).

10. I think that you may not have paid enough attention. Several instances serve to show that the blood purity creed was the ruling paradigm of the Sith Empire, at least prior to the Cold War (the Cold War saw things begin to change, but the change hadn't completed by the end of Act 3).

Those excerpts serve to show how important bloodline was to the average Sith. The more powerful Sith Lords, like Zash and Baras, don't seem to think much of it, but to the overseers and the "common rabble" (so to speak), it mattered much. And it would certainly matter to a more foolish, but pure-blooded, Sith. He would certainly love to feel important because of his bloodline, as figures such as Ffon and that little Sith you save on the Inquisitor line on Balmorra clearly demonstrate.

The quests alone offer much evidence, but so does the codex entry about admission criteria to the Academy:

I don#t have time to reply to everything right now, but I'd like to point out that xenophobia is very much on its way out in Vitiate's Sith Empire. Before aliens were either enslaved or slaughtered, there were no exceptions. But now aliens have been allowed into the upper echelons of Sith Society, they've been allowed to become Sith and they've been allowed to become Dark Council members. So the idea that Vitiate has intensified it just doesn't add up.

That's because of the change in the Empire's structure. So while Vitiate may have worked actively to intensify xenophobia in the years preceding the Great Galactic War (there were 1300 years for him to work with, only the last year is depicted in the SWTOR game), after the war things began to slowly change. But many in the Sith society were opposed to this, as Darth Ravage clearly displays when he voices his concern towards Kallig's ascension to the position of Darth and the seat on the Dark Council. Whether this change was intended by Vitiate or just the Dark Council I don't know, but I suspect that, given Marr's more practical approach to the whole matter of aliens, the Dark Council may have been made to agree due to his influence.

but I suspect that, given Marr's more practical approach to the whole matter of aliens, the Dark Council may have been made to agree due to his influence.

They didnt agree, they were all against it and Marr was scared of being overthrown to the nature of suggesting Karrid to promotion.

They didnt agree, they were all against it and Marr was scared of being overthrown to the nature of suggesting Karrid to promotion.

That it may be, but in the end Karrid killed Gravus and thus all the other council members backed her up for the seat on the Sphere of Technology.

EDIT: To add to the above, consider the appearance of 'modern' purebloods. They are not the tendriled, four fingered creatures of the Ancient era, some of them look completely human, but simply with red skin. I'd assume this is what Sith valued the most, pure Dark Jedi lineage. If I recall a quest you undertake seeing if people are pure doesn't involve looking a skin colour, but purity of blood.

 

I assume what he meant is blood closest to that of the Dark Jedi. Naturally given that fact that all almost the Dark Jedi interbred this is going to be the Purebloods, not the Humans - but could also be humans too.

 

Its obviously a lot more complex that simple temperance.

But the sith lord giving you this quest SPECIFICALLY states that the telltale red skin is very absent nowadays. And telltale red skin means sith blood, not Dark Jedi. This is where BW got it backwards and now try to chance old canon (note the single 'n' in the word, it's "canon" not "cannon", people) to suit their world view instead of adapting their own ideas into the rich world they licensed. And since you can't okay humans with ANY red skin at all...

And he did NOT mean Zabrak... They kinda don't count, being alien scum and all...

But the sith lord giving you this quest SPECIFICALLY states that the telltale red skin is very absent nowadays. And telltale red skin means sith blood, not Dark Jedi. This is where BW got it backwards and now try to chance old canon (note the single 'n' in the word, it's "canon" not "cannon", people) to suit their world view instead of adapting their own ideas into the rich world they licensed. And since you can't okay humans with ANY red skin at all...

And he did NOT mean Zabrak... They kinda don't count, being alien scum and all...

If there were a suitable and interesting explanation for the shift of belief, I would very much welcome that. Then it would not be lore-hijacking, which is what happens when a more profitable canon source (such as a videogame) contradicts previous canon, and all the EU authors rush in to retcon and utterly bin the old lore in favour of the "cooler colourful new lore".

Because, in case the whole blowing up entire planets and being run by the Evil Emperor wasn't enough to tell us that the Empire in the movies were the bad guys, they also made them arbitrarily humanocentric racists in a setting where humans and aliens have lived and worked together for tens of thousands of years. TOR is just stuck with the same silliness.

What you missed is the fact that, from an aesthetic/storyline perspective, the Empire was heavily based off of Nazi Germany in the same manner that the Kaleds/Daleks of Doctor Who were. Lore aside, that was what prompted the whole speciest aspect of the Empire even though most Empires of the past- the Roman for example- were actually fairly inclusive.