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Enough of exploiting ranked warzones


NamikazeNaruto

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I have to say there are some well posted thoughts in this thread. I participated in the pug ranked grouping 1 time and loved it. Yes it was slow to organize and to get the queues to match. However it was fun. With the current system as it is, Bioware has allowed this and not addressed it to this point. When ranked first came out I got my guild together and tried a few. We got smashed and 3 capped with no hope of winning, and now most won’t even bother queuing again.

If I ever get asked again to do the pug ranked I will absolutely do it again. People playing professions they want while getting ranked coms without all the smacktalk and L2P comments is win win.

Hats off to LD50. They know their crap and pretty much own the server with their A team. I don’t mind at all queuing against them with other well geared pubs however if the fights are not even close and there is no hope of ever winning, I would rather hang out with my wife as she watches a twilight marathon for the upcoming movie.

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They don't have to "gimp" themselves. But no one has to play against them, either.

 

If they're unhappy to hang out in empty warzones, well, the onus is really on them, because they are the ones crying about the status quo. That's how the real world works. Other players aren't going to suddenly discover a desire to be repeatedly stomped without a fighting chance.

 

LOL well said. I like how the pug group will switch people if one group beats the other 2 times in a row. It makes it more fair and more fun.

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Whatever makes you sleep at night. I'd say it's still win trading since the other team mates will eventually bail out if you don't keep the matches fair (according to an earlier post by you). What you are doing shouldn't be rewarded since it's a gray area and you are probably using the system in a way it isn't actually intended. I guess we need some official BW feedback on that one. If it's allowed they could just allow training matches without rewards where you can pick your opponents.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think putting together opponents and/or balancing teams is an abuse. If we actually agreed to win trade (Ie didn't play, just let the first team cap and win, then the second team cap and win) then I hope each and every one of us gets temp banned.

 

Training matches would be a fantastic idea.

 

My point being is that we need x-server queues and proper matchmaking. I don't know how starcraft does it but I doubt a person at the bottom of the ranking will meet the number 1 in a ranked match no matter how long the queue times are. I don't think that player will learn much by facing the number 1 except how to lose very fast.

 

My point being is that RWZ will continue to be the same faces

 

=P we're actually in agreement. <.< me wonders why you couldn't just say yhat in the Premades are Ruining Wz's thread.

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two teams that want to play each other on a dead queue (except for the one elite grp) changes nothing. the elite team would be in queue against thin air either way. I suppose you could call it an exploit, except declining a queue counts as a loss, which direclty affects one's rating. so if they're arranging matches while a 3rd team is in the queue, then they either A) aren't doing it to bolster their rating, or B) are doing it to inflate their rating and have no clue how ratings work.

 

rated, at least on my server, is no longer the place for the elite to test themselves. the elite either moved on or joined the one guild that constantly sits in queue. the system is broken. no matter how bad one team is, they're GOING TO END UP AGAINST THE ONE ELITE TEAM IN QUEUE, and they're going to end up against them 90% of the time. matching in a rated system is designed to produce balanced matches, isn't it? I thought it was. if you need to exploit the system to do it, then I say so be it. .

 

I think we're going to disagree here. In normal wz's (I've advocated for a mix of matchmaking and self-reliance) I totally agree a matchmaking system should be balanced as best it can, without killing queue times.

 

In ranked, we're talking about exihibition, best effort, etc... Balance is in how well you make your team. We're not seeing two teams just wanting to have a balanced and fun match. This is literally an exploit to get 16 people ranked comms.

 

my last rated adventure was a couple days ago. it was mostly my guild + 3 pugs. it took about an hour to put the team together. another pug from a lesser guild also entered the queue. it was CW. we wrecked them. it wasn't a contest. our gm was bored to tears. it wasn't fun. we felt sorry for the other pug and (most of us) left their node alone.

 

the one elite guild got wind that someone was in q and put a team together. the other pug stopped Queueing. we met the elite guild in hb, and they wrecked us. *shrug* we decided that we could tolerate one more *** whupping before giving up on rated. so we went into NC and it took the other guys a while to cap south, but there was no moving them off a node once they had it, so that was that. 100-0. nobody else is in queue. fighting the other guild is futile. ok. great. well...rated queues are over and done with again. So that's 60 minutes of organization for ~30m of action, 23m of which were completely lopsided. .

 

Agreed, ranked is difficult to set up. At the same time, don't you think the "elite" team in the queue probably had similiar trouble? Perhaps they don't need to look for pug's, but they still need 8 people of decent composition to be online and willing to team up. It is then acceptable to deny them a match based on "The teams trying to get ranked comms just want a balanced match?"

 

if the goal is to have fun - and that is my goal - then it's more than just winning. rofl stomping the pug wasn't fun. getting pwned by the other guild isnt't fun. drafting two teams to play each other is fun. it's only bad for the rating whore who can't farm rating on ppl that have no business playing him in the first place. until the system is miraculously fixed - I doubt it ever will or can be at this point - I think manufacturing 8v8s is the way to go.

 

btw: this wasn't always the case. the state of rated has changed on my server. it used to be just the opposite and ppl actively dodged certain guilds to inflate their rating. I don't think that's the case anymore. frankly, what's-her-face doesn't play anymore, and all the remaining good players from her guild are in the top guild now anyway. the top imp guilds went away. it's not elite's dodging elites to inflate their ratings anymore.

 

<.< I'd say we need practice matching capabilities then, though that might kill pvp as we know it lol. I agree the goal of a game is to have fun, but we're talking different uses of a system for it. Ranked was designed for top-end pvp, which to top end pvper's (if they get a proper match) is fun. I realize it's not fun for pugs/weaker teams to lose, but they need to find their fun somewhere else.

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Agreed, ranked is difficult to set up. At the same time, don't you think the "elite" team in the queue probably had similiar trouble? Perhaps they don't need to look for pug's, but they still need 8 people of decent composition to be online and willing to team up. It is then acceptable to deny them a match based on "The teams trying to get ranked comms just want a balanced match?".

 

I would say yes since the system allows it. Consider the alternative. If there was no way to pick your fights, pugs would stay in regular wz's so there would still be no fighting for the elite team queued.

 

The best solution is to do cross server and allow the lower rated peeps to fight themselves but who knows when that will happen. Bioware doesn't seem to have pvp on the front burner. I personally wish there was better world pvp.

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I would say yes since the system allows it. Consider the alternative. If there was no way to pick your fights, pugs would stay in regular wz's so there would still be no fighting for the elite team queued.

 

The best solution is to do cross server and allow the lower rated peeps to fight themselves but who knows when that will happen. Bioware doesn't seem to have pvp on the front burner. I personally wish there was better world pvp.

 

Yet the system does not allow it, it's an exploit of the system that allows it (bad system). If the system allowed it, it would just let you pick the enemy team. Instead, in order to pick your opponent you have to communicate whether you both got a pop, then join/decline based on whether or not the other team will be against you.

 

That being said, yes if those teams weren't in queue the "elite" team wouldn't get a pop any way. However, those two teams wouldn't be getting rewards either. That's the main problem, is people exploiting the system to gain ranked comms. Not just that they're avoiding the other team, but they're doing so for profit/gain.

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Is your team one that always pushes for 3caps and Farms players at the respawn

It's not your responsibility to make the game enjoyable for other teams but you can without losing make them

Feel like they are getting somthing accomplished and want to requeue

I recently started queue for ranked in a new guild we are still learning and lose quite often to a particular guild

We opened communication with these guys and they gave us plenty of info as some of our players had no clue with pvp strats etc, we roll over most pug teams and guilds of similar gear levels as we are mostly bm geared we had to change our tactics slightly to keep these other teams queuing against us So we never go for a three cap in aldraan and novare and never push them back to the spawn some maps like huttball and void star you dont get that and just have to roll them but we want as many people to get medals for comms if they lose as to not make ranked a worse option than normal warzones

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In ranked, we're talking about exihibition, best effort, etc... Balance is in how well you make your team. We're not seeing two teams just wanting to have a balanced and fun match. This is literally an exploit to get 16 people ranked comms..

 

lol no. I have two fully optimized troopers. (although how I "optimized" them is comical). anyway, I don't need comms. I would say that of the 16 ppl, 5-6 did not need comms. some got on alts simply to balance the roles. yeah, it's faster comms for the ppl who aren't optimized. but the point is to balance the teams. so there were an equal number of geared and ungeared players on each team. everybody was on voice. man. it was fun. I wish I didn't have to go to work the next day, or I'd have played all night.

 

why does it even matter if ungeared players get rated comms and gear faster anyway? I'm not opposed to a gear grind, but if skill and teamwork are what wins, then why should you (or anyone) care if someone else gets rated comms faster? I mean...wasn't civic on the forums trying to convince undergeared players to queue for ranked and get rofl stomped because it rewards rated comms, and 40 of those are still more valuable than 100 reg comms per match?

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This is a tough argument. I have to disagree with the OP, though. There is no "practice" mode. Optimizing an 8 man team is a difficult task. Some people are more teachable than others. If you need gear in order to compete, you should not even be queuing for rank warzones.

 

Saying that, you might think "Which means they are just exploiting". If they have no desire to be competitive, then yes, it is an exploit. If it's sincere, then I think you need to label this differently. Ranked warzones are in such a dark place, that if these people doing this are actually benefitting themselves, (and perhaps you, at a later point) then you should find it acceptable. Then again, the ol' saying goes "It's lonely at the top."

 

Furthermore, if I were you, I would put alts in other guilds and try to become apart of their PvP teams, and I would encourage my friends to do the same. This way you are actually showing you're sincere in your want for competition, and have no problem helping them get there.

 

As for 3-capping... Going back to the baseball reference. You don't swipe bags when you're up by 5.

 

"Not only am I going to beat you to the ground, but I'm going to shove your face in a steaming pile of ****, too."

 

Not really classy, OP. It's not classy for them to leave the RWZ either, but I wouldn't show class to someone who shows no class to me.

Edited by AngelAlkaiser
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lol no. I have two fully optimized troopers. (although how I "optimized" them is comical). anyway, I don't need comms. I would say that of the 16 ppl, 5-6 did not need comms. some got on alts simply to balance the roles. yeah, it's faster comms for the ppl who aren't optimized. but the point is to balance the teams. so there were an equal number of geared and ungeared players on each team. everybody was on voice. man. it was fun. I wish I didn't have to go to work the next day, or I'd have played all night.

 

why does it even matter if ungeared players get rated comms and gear faster anyway? I'm not opposed to a gear grind, but if skill and teamwork are what wins, then why should you (or anyone) care if someone else gets rated comms faster? I mean...wasn't civic on the forums trying to convince undergeared players to queue for ranked and get rofl stomped because it rewards rated comms, and 40 of those are still more valuable than 100 reg comms per match?

 

I think again it comes down to the fundemental role of Rated Warzones. Personally I don't care if someone gets comms, etc by any legal means. Whether or not the people want comms (which for your teams, is probably not the case. For what the OP described, that's exactly as it sounds) They are still using a system everyone can use for a purpose it was not intended for. To make things worse, they are abusing the system and excluding players who are using the system as intended.

 

It's an exploit like any other. Let's say there was a banking glitch, that if you idk... shift clicked an item in the fourth row while pressing "Q" it doubled the stack. Personally, I don't care if someone has 10 medpacks, 20 medpacks, or 99 of them. I don't care if they bought them, farmed them, or sent them from an alt. I don't even care if they did it for the laughs or to get an edge. The problem is they abused the system. I think anyone would tell you a duplication glitch is exactly that... a glitch, an exploit.

 

When my guild does 16-man ranked (which is actually 8-10 of us and 8-6 friends/randoms) we balance teams and try to keep things fair. That's cool. Yet -if- we get a pop and the other team doesn't, we still take it and face whomever is in the queue, that's how the system works. Understandably, if we're getitng creamed we're less likely to play as long, but we're still playing as the system intends. If we're really motivated, we'll even form a proper ranked group once we know we have opponents in the queue.

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Furthermore, if I were you, I would put alts in other guilds and try to become apart of their PvP teams, and I would encourage my friends to do the same. This way you are actually showing you're sincere in your want for competition, and have no problem helping them get there.

 

As for 3-capping... Going back to the baseball reference. You don't swipe bags when you're up by 5.

 

"Not only am I going to beat you to the ground, but I'm going to shove your face in a steaming pile of ****, too."

 

Not really classy, OP. It's not classy for them to leave the RWZ either, but I wouldn't show class to someone who shows no class to me.

 

I agree, which is why I'm raising an Operative on the Imp side, while building their gear on my main Pub side. Imp side on my server is drastically smaller, has less good players, and sadly has one guild that -could- field a ranked team, and rarely does.

 

As for your last point, I can definitely see that. As an individual, I wouldn't 3 cap if I knew we would win (past/near the point where they need a 3 cap to win). However, I also realize the other team (and even my team mates) will have no qualms about doing so. I don't see beating an enemy soundly as malicious, which is why I rarely get mad at the other team for playing hard/well.

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Sorry Theo, what Doomsday is doing is absoluately fine. They're not queue dodging, they're not farming their fighting each other, and anyone that pops up to fight they will fight.

 

They didnt go oh hey its Guild X, they didnt run from them (from what the posts say), they fought them head on.

 

Thats what RWZ is all about.

 

You can complain about how these pro's are at fault, but if the people are that lazy in the first place to not apply the fortitude of trying then what USE is WZ to them, why even queue up to get your *** smoked, seriously, I mean if you come to WZ you should expect the worst and hope for the best.

 

But when you start blaming something all you going to do is whine and not improve.

 

I could whine a few hundred million things but I get on with the program, premade or no premade i face I will face them as I face anyone else (100% effort and spirit). Maybe others wont but they are the ones ruining SWTOR, people complain too much on forums and not trying.

 

This is not Bioware's fault, they cant fix lazy *** to do stuff if they dont want to. They could force people but then you blame Bioware for being pushy. So yea go ahead and blame DoomsdayComes for what they're doing but they're doing whats intended for RWZ, you're just endorsing people farming comms.

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This situation is part of why I just do not see the whole F2p thing helping queue times and the PvP situation in general.

 

New players are going to queue up, run into people like the OP, who we shall assume, for the purpose of this thought experiment, has their button pressing down to a science and their gear idealised. And after two or three like that, they will never queue again. Might not even log in again after that either.

 

And who could blame them? Its really not fun or entertaining to run face-first into people who have been playing for the better part of a year refining and tweaking their strategy, gear, and playstyle. And, if something isnt fun, people just arent going to do it.

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maybe it had different reason?

 

This happens also on my server The red eclipse . they "farm" ranked comms. Its cheating, first round win first team, second round is winner scond team.

 

They get everytime as much medals as possible for short time etc ... My guild dont support this and i kick every1 who is involved.

 

Im on that server, if you see Red-Rusker or Raikage gimme a bell im up for trying a RWZ, jsut to get my 4 losseso f the day

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Just played a regular wz with LD 4 man on the other side. It was civil way and got 3 capped at the end just for insult. And they wonder why nobody wants to play them...

 

We're in warzones earning comms just like you are. The faster the game ends, the more comms we can earn. Perhaps you should find some friends and do the same.

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RWZs without XServer Queues (to avoid queue dodging) and a Matchmaking System (to pit equally rated opponents against each other for good fights) are a total and utter joke. Until those two things are added, RWZs will be good for nothing except farming Ranked Comms.

 

I think this pretty much sums it up. Although I have no respect for people who totally queue dodge, I know I've had my *** handed to me by your team a few times but I'm not gonna leave or dodge queue.

 

It seems that there are only a few consistent/decent ranked teams on every server, cross server seems like the only answer, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon.

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RWZs without XServer Queues (to avoid queue dodging) and a Matchmaking System (to pit equally rated opponents against each other for good fights) are a total and utter joke. Until those two things are added, RWZs will be good for nothing except farming Ranked Comms.

 

And who is to blame for that? Gabe Amantagelo. The dude thinks that elite war hero weapons and recruit mk2 is all that we need. No skill+gear+valor matchmaking = joke pvp

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that's definetly not what I'm saying. Baseball isn't the best sports analogy iimo, so let's use basketball.

Say a team is up 35 with 4 minutes to play, do they keep the starters in and keep pushing the fast break tempo, or is it considered good sportsmanship to sub some back of the bench guys and slow down the pace a little.

No trying to lose, not even gimping yourself, just realizing that you've already won and there is no need to embarrass the other team.

Remember i said I'll play anyone anywhere, anytime, but that to me is the issue with many people not taking part in ranked. They could maybe live with losing, but getting embarrassed and humiliated causes them to stop queuing.

 

Say you've won civil war with a 3 cap (pnr reached) pull defense off of one turent..... Don't just spawn camp....

 

They don't pull first stringers for sportsmanship, they pull them to eliminate the risk of injury and give the second stringers some practice. And the coach that does that and then loses the game as a result would likely be fired, that's how prized "fair" competition is in professional sports. So next time you see a team do that, don't think, "Aw, how nice of them!", think, "Those jerks are 100% sure they're going to win and are rubbing the other teams face in it by bringing in their second strigers for extra practice." Cause that's what's actually happening.

 

While ranked wzs certainly aren't "professional" they're as close as it gets here, and it makes NO SENSE AT ALL to insist on "fairness" in ranked matches. A tiered system that only matches equally ranked players would be great, so would more competitors, so would fixing the pvp imbalances. You know what's not great? Players abusing the badly designed system to hijack it for the purpose of faster comm gain and "private" matches.

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Bahahahaha that is such an elitist comment. Dude when you have 5 of the 8 guys on your team trying to get geared for ranked WZs going against the best is not "going against the best" it's feeding the already fat lions yet another serving of meat. F that! My job as PVP lead is to get my guys geared so we can have a "REAL" match against the best. So until then QQ and be patient. We'll get geared soon enough then we'll really have fun. Until there is some sort of ranking system and cross server que you'll see this happen all the time. And if BW doesn't add these features you'll be standing around anyway because nobody will be PVPing.

 

Elitist to insist that players joining the ranked queue accept that they may end up fighting vastly better opponents? Yes, I'm a terrible, elitist monster.

 

If you want to gear up, join the regular queue and expect fairly consistent wins with your premade, if you want to gear up faster suck it up and take your lumps in ranked. But if you really believe just gear is going to make the difference between getting destroyed and winning, unless you're talking recruit or worse gear, good luck with that.

 

As far as no one pvping, if we're talking ranked it's pretty much already that way. And the people just farming comms only make it worse.

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We're in warzones earning comms just like you are. The faster the game ends, the more comms we can earn. Perhaps you should find some friends and do the same.

 

Yes b/c that 30 seconds LD50 held the last node ended the game so much quicker.

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