So I am a Jedi Knight and dedicated to the light side. About level 11 I ran into a questgiver lady on Coruscant that asked me to steal a diplomatic pouch designated for a senator that was corrupt. I actually believe her story but as a Jedi I could not steal - simply could not bring myself to select that option. This means that there is a solid storyline and I am immersed in my character. Nice job Bioware - but I hated turning her down as I hate political corruption.

Most of the quests where you have to steal something or seem to have questionable morals involved usually has a light/dark choice at the end.

 

*Spoilers*

 

I think in this quest you will be able to turn-in the stolen material to authorities and get the senator fired - which is the light side option.

 

 

So, despite you not being able to steal and break RP, you can argue yourself that you only planned to steal in order to stop the corruption. Bioware has done a pretty good job at giving you the opportunity to not have to do something out of character, even if it starts out as questionable.

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

So I am a Jedi Knight and dedicated to the light side. About level 11 I ran into a questgiver lady on Coruscant that asked me to steal a diplomatic pouch designated for a senator that was corrupt. I actually believe her story but as a Jedi I could not steal - simply could not bring myself to select that option. This means that there is a solid storyline and I am immersed in my character. Nice job Bioware - but I hated turning her down as I hate political corruption.

 

Did you flush the engineering crew in the Flashpoint?

Did you flush the engineering crew in the Flashpoint?

 

He just said he's light lolol. So I'm gathering he didn't flush the crew in Esseles lolol

If you choose to steal the parcel you get DS points because as the aide says you are sabotaging the democratic process. Even if you believe that the Senator's plans are evil, the act of stealing from a Republic Senator whom to the best of your knowledge is not doing anything illegal is not something someone with integrity would do.

If you choose to steal the parcel you get DS points because as the aide says you are sabotaging the democratic process. Even if you believe that the Senator's plans are evil, the act of stealing from a Republic Senator whom to the best of your knowledge is not doing anything illegal is not something someone with integrity would do.

 

It could be debated that "it's to your best knowledge is not doing anything illegal". The dialog does a pretty good job at instilling doubt about his innocence. The LS/DS choices do not seem to be correct with the questline.

I think you are automatically assuming that anything that has to do with the Empire outside of destroying it is automatically evil, which is not the case. You may not like what the Senator is trying to do (hey I stole the parcel myself), but the fact remains that hacking into the Senator's droid and stealing confidential information is clearly an illegal act, and if you chose to go through with it you get DS points. I see nothing wrong with that.

I would agree, and I stated that in beta when they (BW) threw up the quest survey. Another problem I think we're having is we know where all this goes (Galactic Empire); so we're probably thinking that this "True Republic" is the group that sees the corruption and will be the group that's [assumed to have] fled Coruscant at the end of Episode III; later becoming the Rebel Alliance.

 

What they should have done is actually had you go on a 'fact-finder' and in the end either decide to expose the senator (turn the real data over) or conceal it [for a price] and had over the agricultural data.

 

 

On a Side note:

 

Another point of "huh?"

 

is

 

**SPOILER**

 

 

 

On Taris (Consular Chain) you have the option of saving ONE person or the holocrons contain medical information that could be used to save MILLIONS.

 

The LS choice is to PUT THE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS OF ONE PERSON above the needs of many. Funny, even Yoda once said sacrifice is sometimes needed; just I just doomed potentially millions to agonizing death...for one person.

I personally wanted to cut the corrupt scum down when I discovered the proof of his actions. Why waste time on a justice system that may let the guilty walk.. yup.. I do this.. Punisher style!

I would agree, and I stated that in beta when they (BW) threw up the quest survey. Another problem I think we're having is we know where all this goes (Galactic Empire); so we're probably thinking that this "True Republic" is the group that sees the corruption and will be the group that's [assumed to have] fled Coruscant at the end of Episode III; later becoming the Rebel Alliance.

 

Um, there are almost 3000 years between this and the movies, so no organization (other than major ones like the Republic itself and the Jedi) would last through that.

 

I agree that there are some pretty messed-up LS/DS options. For example (Corsucant spoilers):

 

 

 

And that's just one of the many quests where the LS choice was far crueler or more malevolent than the DS choice.

Um, there are almost 3000 years between this and the movies, so no organization (other than major ones like the Republic itself and the Jedi) would last through that.

 

And knowing how the Republic falls, my immediate thought was "this group probably becomes the Rebels". I also thought that the "True Republic" was the Empire's seed of deception. It's already hinted at that the Empire is going about the take over of the Republic with much more patience, and it's probably "our" efforts that stall the plan out for the next few thousand years. In either case, that quest just seems...too short

 

I agree that there are some pretty messed-up LS/DS options. For example (Corsucant spoilers):

 

There's the quest where a man thinks his wife is being held as a, erm, "romance" slave by a gang, but she really faked her kidnapping to get away from him. Two options are to tell him she's been shipped offworld (LS on the theory that that will bring him closure) and to tell him she's dead (DS).

 

Has Bioware seen Man on Fire or Taken? Telling him she's been shipped off-world will torment him for his entire life, while telling him she's dead will at least bring closure (death is a better fate than being held captive like she allegedly was anyway). The ironic thing is that BW got this right in KOTOR with the robot quest on Dantooine: Death=closure; MIA=a lifetime of searching.

 

At least in that quest you can tell him the truth for LS points, but first you have to lie to his wife and tell her that her "secret's safe with" you.

 

 

And that's just one of the many quests where the LS choice was far crueler or more malevolent than the DS choice.

 

If this is the quest I'm thinking of...I think the reasoning is telling him she's dead would send him into despair that he'd never see her again. But if she's been shipped off; he'd still have hope.

 

 

...i think Bioware just has a dart part; half is red, other half is blue. And when they make a quest and decide "this option will have an alignment" they throw a dart

And knowing how the Republic falls, my immediate thought was "this group probably becomes the Rebels". I also thought that the "True Republic" was the Empire's seed of deception. It's already hinted at that the Empire is going about the take over of the Republic with much more patience, and it's probably "our" efforts that stall the plan out for the next few thousand years. In either case, that quest just seems...too short

 

Just to clear it up, the Sith Empire of The Old Republic is nothing but a distant memory by the time the Rebel Alliance comes along - the Republic has had a thousand years of peace by The Phantom Menace in the movie saga, and the last war was with a different Sith Empire.

I am having a blast with my inquisitor story, and love being as evil and corrupt as possible. Seeing [Kill Him/Her] in a convo option.. there is nothing better.

I ran across a similarly skewed quest on Droman Kaas during beta. You have to choose between killing the trouble maker (DS points) and turning the bad guys into the Empire (LS points. While killing the whistle blower is definitely evil, turning people over to a authoritative regime to be tortured doesn't seem like a Light side choice.

Um, there are almost 3000 years between this and the movies, so no organization (other than major ones like the Republic itself and the Jedi) would last through that.

 

I agree that there are some pretty messed-up LS/DS options. For example (Corsucant spoilers):

 

There's the quest where a man thinks his wife is being held as a, erm, "romance" slave by a gang, but she really faked her kidnapping to get away from him. Two options are to tell him she's been shipped offworld (LS on the theory that that will bring him closure) and to tell him she's dead (DS).

 

Has Bioware seen Man on Fire or Taken? Telling him she's been shipped off-world will torment him for his entire life, while telling him she's dead will at least bring closure (death is a better fate than being held captive like she allegedly was anyway). The ironic thing is that BW got this right in KOTOR with the robot quest on Dantooine: Death=closure; MIA=a lifetime of searching.

 

At least in that quest you can tell him the truth for LS points, but first you have to lie to his wife and tell her that her "secret's safe with" you.

 

 

And that's just one of the many quests where the LS choice was far crueler or more malevolent than the DS choice.

 

 

 

 

Aka, people are different

I think you are automatically assuming that anything that has to do with the Empire outside of destroying it is automatically evil, which is not the case. You may not like what the Senator is trying to do (hey I stole the parcel myself), but the fact remains that hacking into the Senator's droid and stealing confidential information is clearly an illegal act, and if you chose to go through with it you get DS points. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

While laws are made to protect what we call "civilization", sometimes it is necessary to break those laws (through legal means even) to attain proof of devious acts. This is illustrated by our own legal system where a court can order a search warrant. The search warrant negate the typical law.

 

The entire quest line is an example of poor story writing anyway. As a Jedi Consular, if I was there snooping at the documents that droid has - there isn't a security guard on Coruscant that would interfere with me as soon as he saw my status. Instead, he would probably mention to someone, but there wouldn't be a confrontation there as it were.

 

Understandably, the quest would have been difficult to write like that to be able to be completed by smugglers and troopers though.

 

On top of that, why on earth did I stun the droid when there was a security guard so obviously close by anyway?

The Boy-Man(I call him this due to the freckles) has a very sinister tone to his voice when you make the choice to take the senator down. I believe that even if the choices are skewed or not, that stealing the plans was the right thing to do. The Senate seems to have a trend of making corrupt descisions..

And that's just one of the many quests where the LS choice was far crueler or more malevolent than the DS choice.

 

As I recall for that quest, it's because the man is abusive. Telling him that she's gone, means he has to move on with his life. But giving the woman away means you're dooming her to stay with a man who makes her life miserable.

 

As for the Senator mission, it's simply because by stealing the documents and exposing them, you're undermining the values of the Republic. As the Aide mentions - this is what democracy is about. People are entitled to their own opinions and views. To try and take matters into your hands the way the dark side choice is, you are trying to control the Republic.

I ran across a similarly skewed quest on Droman Kaas during beta. You have to choose between killing the trouble maker (DS points) and turning the bad guys into the Empire (LS points. While killing the whistle blower is definitely evil, turning people over to a authoritative regime to be tortured doesn't seem like a Light side choice.

 

I know that quest..if you're referring to the.."killing spree" one. The government is the government and they do have their justice system even if it isn't as fair as the republics it is a system. In that case allowing the bad guys to go free meant more killings..while the trouble maker was only trying to cal out an injustice.

 

 

 

side note: why does everyone assume empire=auto evil? they had different ideologies.....not to mention the republic had it coming for how they ended the last war..they sowed the seeds of destruction..

 

 

personal opinion: as they op stated the scenario reinforces my thoughts the jedi have some flawed logic in their system.

I would agree, and I stated that in beta when they (BW) threw up the quest survey. Another problem I think we're having is we know where all this goes (Galactic Empire); so we're probably thinking that this "True Republic" is the group that sees the corruption and will be the group that's [assumed to have] fled Coruscant at the end of Episode III; later becoming the Rebel Alliance.

 

What they should have done is actually had you go on a 'fact-finder' and in the end either decide to expose the senator (turn the real data over) or conceal it [for a price] and had over the agricultural data.

 

 

On a Side note:

 

Another point of "huh?"

 

is

 

**SPOILER**

 

 

 

On Taris (Consular Chain) you have the option of saving ONE person or the holocrons contain medical information that could be used to save MILLIONS.

 

The LS choice is to PUT THE INDIVIDUAL NEEDS OF ONE PERSON above the needs of many. Funny, even Yoda once said sacrifice is sometimes needed; just I just doomed potentially millions to agonizing death...for one person.

 

The Knight storyline has something similar. Save a single colony from attack by a Sith Assassin, or keep the pressure on an imperial intel agent and prevent him from getting the entirety of the Republic's superweapon research and passing it on to Darth Angral. Light side? Save the colonists. At the cost of the security of the entire Republic and trillions of lives.

 

Evil will always defeat good, because good is DUMB.

I would agree, and I stated that in beta when they (BW) threw up the quest survey. Another problem I think we're having is we know where all this goes (Galactic Empire); .

 

The sith empire in TOR is not the same empire as in the movies. Its a completely different incarnation of the Sith order. In fact, I believe the republic will win this conflict.

While laws are made to protect what we call "civilization", sometimes it is necessary to break those laws (through legal means even) to attain proof of devious acts. This is illustrated by our own legal system where a court can order a search warrant. The search warrant negate the typical law.

 

The entire quest line is an example of poor story writing anyway. As a Jedi Consular, if I was there snooping at the documents that droid has - there isn't a security guard on Coruscant that would interfere with me as soon as he saw my status. Instead, he would probably mention to someone, but there wouldn't be a confrontation there as it were.

 

Understandably, the quest would have been difficult to write like that to be able to be completed by smugglers and troopers though.

 

On top of that, why on earth did I stun the droid when there was a security guard so obviously close by anyway?

 

I disagree. The fact that there is a thread debating these choices and whether they are LS or DS proves to me that it is BRILLIANT story writing. It makes us think, it takes us out of our comfortable good/evil niches, and makes the choices stick with us after they are done.

 

The medicine quest on Ord Mantell is another good one for debate. Save the kids or save the soldiers?

2 points after reading this thread.

 

1) Jedi are like paladins, they obey the law, but only so long as it doesn't conflict with their higher law, so will happily steal something in a situation like this, to make sure a greater evil is not being committed(ends justifies the means has been shown that it doesn't have darkside ramifications)

 

2) The Old Republic has been dead for 2 thousand years by the time Anakin is born, and its successor has been dead for 1000. Galactic history prior to the movies has followed a thousand year cycle, with a republic dying of corruption, and a new one rising from its ashes, every thousand years or so. The only thing that has remained fairly constant is the Jedi Order, and the fact that they support whichever republic currently upholds their beliefs(and they have changed sides because the republic stopped upholding them in a way the Grand Master of the Jedi Order agreed with).

 

TL;DR - don't compare anything to the movies, and Jedi morality is not legal morality.

Actually, the quest he is talking about had some weird mix up on the light/dark choices.

 

The light side choice is to take a fake pile of documents back to her and essentially "lie" to her.

 

The dark side choice is to expose the Senator.

 

Seems completely backwards to me - though I wish I had just refused to steal the documents after all. I was "fine" with "stealing" the documents to expose corruption. Subterfuge and information gathering typically involve "theft" at some point anyway, but to intentionally deceive through false information does not seem to be a "light side" perspective.

 

That's not the only one. There are other quests in this game where BioWare's sense of morality is completely incomprehensible.