Try to justify it however you wish. What it boils down to is this. You wish to continue to use a service or service provider, but complain about the service or prices, If you choose to continue to use that service or provider, then, IMO, you forfeit your right to complain. At the very least, you end up looking like a whining child. If you really feel so strongly about the lack of service or prices, then take your business elsewhere.

 

This is a very typical response, but not one grounded in sound understanding of business, I suspect.

 

As you said, we're not forced to pay for this game. But you ought to realize that if you support it and want it to grow, it is in YOUR best interest that everyone, even those of us displeased with the present offering, continues to pay for it. This game's continued existence and development depends on that. So by trying to dissuade feedback and urging people who are displeased to just leave, you could actually harm the game's prospects, not help them. If you're a strange specimen that wishes to bring on financial failure, however, I stand corrected. I know there are a few of them out there.

 

For a product that is a one-time payment, your statement could hold true -- assuming it is simply a cash grab with no aspirations of repeat customers. But a developer that wants to retain subscribers needs to know what people like and don't like so that it can adjust its offering. That feedback won't always come in a format you, the fellow consumer, find agreeable. But it is not really for you: it's for BioWare. It is posted on a forum that the developers claim they read, and encourage discussion on.

 

So, your services as feedback police are not just unwarranted -- they're detrimental to what BioWare is supposed to want out of their interaction with customers (what they TRULY get out of it is beyond me, given how poorly they use it). If they believed as you did, they'd simply close this deal down and soldier on. As they have not (watch me get bitten as they shut down the forums tomorrow), you really ought to encourage people to post constructively, rather than being passive-aggressive and telling them not to voice discontent at all and leave.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Whillwynn

The main problem with your argument is that the main way a consumer supports a product or service is through money. You can continue to post criticisms and use their product without paying them ANY MONEY WHAT SO EVER. I'm not entirely sure what your argument is supposed to mean and when taken to the general it becomes down right nonsensical honestly.

 

"You don't like some politicians well then you should never vote!"

"You don't like your grade there fore you should never show up to class!"

 

Just because you dislike some aspect of some product or service that you pay for, you don't automatically lose your right to voice a concern about it. How criticism can be misconstrued as hatred is beyond me. I'm guessing it makes sense to a generation that was never scolded as children though or had their hand slapped away from a hot stove top.

 

If you don't like a certain politician, then you vote for the other one. You do not dictate who wins the election, or who you have represent you, but you made your voice heard with that one vote.

 

If you don't like your grade, you can choose to work harder, get some additional tutoring, or take other steps to improve your grade. If you choose to do nothing, then expect your grade to remain the same or get worse. That one you do have control over.

 

I'm from the generation that had my hand slapped away from a hot stove the first time i got close, but not the second. If I didn't listen the first time, I sure learned the second. I also had a belt or wooden spoon taken to my backside when i deserved it.

 

Even if you do not pay for a service, how can you justify complaining about that service if you choose to continue to use it?

To sum it up, this game has been a scam since day one.

 

You would think this game was run by Cryptic/Atari with the way things were going.......

All we have to do is supporting with send a good suggestion beside whining in the forum. all players need good feed back for what they paid so they must support the dev with a good ways. sometimes as a player try to put you position as a dev. try to understand them so you can be more supportive to them rather just whining in the back and do nothing.

Try to justify it however you wish. What it boils down to is this. You wish to continue to use a service or service provider, but complain about the service or prices, If you choose to continue to use that service or provider, then, IMO, you forfeit your right to complain. At the very least, you end up looking like a whining child. If you really feel so strongly about the lack of service or prices, then take your business elsewhere.

 

No one is forced to pay for this expansion. Before the cries of "We have to pay for it or we can't play it" start, you are not forced to play to the new level cap, or even to play the game at all. If you CHOOSE to play the game to the new level cap, then yes you have to pay for the xpac, but you are CHOOSING to play to the new level cap.

 

No one forces you to come to the forum either.

This is a very typical response, but not one grounded in sound understanding of business, I suspect.

 

As you said, we're not forced to pay for this game. But you ought to realize that if you support it and want it to grow, it is in YOUR best interest that everyone, even those of us displeased with the present offering, continues to pay for it. This game's continued existence and development depends on that. So by trying to dissuade feedback and urging people who are displeased to just leave, you could actually harm the game's prospects, not help them. If you're a strange specimen that wishes to bring on financial failure, however, I stand corrected. I know there are a few of them out there.

 

For a product that is a one-time payment, your statement could hold true -- assuming it is simply a cash grab with no aspirations of repeat customers. But a developer that wants to retain subscribers needs to know what people like and don't like so that it can adjust its offering. That feedback won't always come in a format you, the fellow consumer, find agreeable. But it is not really for you: it's for BioWare. It is posted on a forum that the developers claim they read, and encourage discussion on.

 

So, your services as feedback police are not just unwarranted -- they're detrimental to what BioWare is supposed to want out of their interaction with customers (what they TRULY get out of it is beyond me, given how poorly they use it). If they believed as you did, they'd simply close this deal down and soldier on. As they have not (watch me get bitten as they shut down the forums tomorrow), you really ought to encourage people to post constructively, rather than being passive-aggressive and telling them not to voice discontent at all and leave.

 

I realize that it is the best interest of this game for people to continue to play and pay. The point that all of the people coming to forums and complaining are missing is that until you speak with a voice that the bigwigs can understand, it is all just like a charlie brown parent. "Wuh wuh wuhwuh." If people will continue to play and pay, those that make the decisions will have no reason to change the way they operate.

 

Take a look at verizon wireless. They took away their unlimited data option, yet people continue to use their service and go over their monthly data limit, costing them a lot of money each month. As long as people continue to do this, and verizon wireless makes money, they will have no reason to raise the data limits or even bring back unlimited data. Yet people will pay them month after month after month.

 

I know it's kind a catch-22. If we want this game to survive, we need a lot of players, whether those are paid subs or f2p. Yet, as long as we have a large number of players, EA/BW has no real reason to change their current business practices. All the complaining in the world will not change that fact.

From the announcement of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, some areas of the fan base, my self included, have been angered about the nickle and dimming that EA are doing. The "expansion" has just made matters worse. This started when the cartel shop / F2P was released. This isn't a knee jerk reaction to one thing or the fact that its about $10 its about whats right and fair.

 

After watching the rise of the cartel coins vid, I've got to say most of what they say make sense. I have not seen this video, nor have I been able to Google it. Please link. So I got to ask is this turning into a P.R nightmare for the game? Meh, not really And do we subscribers really have a right to be angry over $10? No. Not really

 

It's fair to say there's a feeling of a lack of trust in EA / BioWare, we are being asked to pre order when there's little or no info on the forums and there's a LOT of questions about this "expansion" that need to be answered. This could be cleared up right here right now, if EA would come out and say " This is what your getting and you will need or not need the expo for the extra 5 lvls." But they won't. The mystery always wins in the end, unless the community is so outraged by what a company is doing, that is. But with all the complaining going on, the massive success of the CCM has lead to the conclusion that the complainers are "fringe" at best. As I always say, vote with your wallet, not your mouth.

 

So people are asking: What are they hiding most people are smart enough to smell a conn when they see it? A conn? Really? That needs elaboration or you are just throwing out some venom on your part. Add in EA track record and that is why people are angry. It's not about $10, it's about the P.R. mess that EA finds themselves in. It went from Subs won't pay, to Hmmmm wellllll We dont know, to Give me your money, RWZ was another mess that EA landed itself in its all down to poor communication, something EA as struggled with over this last year.

 

So the question for fans is: Do you trust EA enough to give them your $10 and do you think its fair that we cant use cartel coins to get the Expo? Yes. There isn't any company out there that allows you to purchase an expansion before it has been released with its market currency. Especially when that currency is given out as a perk of subscription. Trust? That will be hard to guage, but people have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on gambling packs, so you tell me.

 

All most fans what is more information. Then we can say this is fair or not. Until that info is out there, most people will rage stamp there feet arguing or defending the latest P.R mess. This only hurts the game. Questions need to be asked over this one more P.R mess that SWTOR finds itself in, due to a lack of thought and a money grabbing attitude.

 

To be honest there isn't much in the way of a P.R. mess. You perceive it is because you want it to be. No, I'm no booster of EA. This is the last game I purchased from EA and I've avoided any game that has to do with EA since the whole ME3 outcry (Which is a shame since I REALLY want to play Syndicate). We all want to rage and call this TORtanic and such, but in reality, they have kept themselves afloat a while longer. Short term gain. Will it turn into a long term, can't tell. Anyone saying that they can, is full of it. I can guess, but I'm colored by my lack of faith in anything EA does.

 

So to a point, is $10 for subs outrageous? No. It's not. Every other current expanion runs around $30. So look at it this way, if you spent $30 you would get 3 planets and 15 levels. Fair enough by what is put out in comparison. Is EA a gready money grubbing company? YES! Is this another money grubbing attempt? No. It's what the market has been bearing. So to try to weave this into some indictment of EA, is at best misplaced, at worse malicious. EA has a LOT of faults and is as out of touch with the players as Marie Antoinette was to the peasants of France. Will we have to gumption to revolt? Well, not so far.

 

If you ant to go after EA, at least go after something that is clearly outside the norm.

 

Sorry. Grammar Nazi showed up and edited your post.

If you ant to go after EA, at least go after something that is clearly outside the norm.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare

Owner(s) Electronic Arts

Founder(s) Ray Muzyka (retired in 2012)

Greg Zeschuk (retired in 2012)

Augustine Yip (retired in 1997)

 

EA and Bioware are same thing, actually Bioware doesnt exist as company only brand. I had to reply.

I have a simple question. When the expansion is released will subscription still be at $15 a month or will it go up with the expansion? I thought it was a one time deal you buy and the monthly sub is still $15 a month. Can anyone confirm please.

I realize that it is the best interest of this game for people to continue to play and pay. The point that all of the people coming to forums and complaining are missing is that until you speak with a voice that the bigwigs can understand, it is all just like a charlie brown parent. "Wuh wuh wuhwuh." If people will continue to play and pay, those that make the decisions will have no reason to change the way they operate.

 

Take a look at verizon wireless. They took away their unlimited data option, yet people continue to use their service and go over their monthly data limit, costing them a lot of money each month. As long as people continue to do this, and verizon wireless makes money, they will have no reason to raise the data limits or even bring back unlimited data. Yet people will pay them month after month after month.

 

I know it's kind a catch-22. If we want this game to survive, we need a lot of players, whether those are paid subs or f2p. Yet, as long as we have a large number of players, EA/BW has no real reason to change their current business practices. All the complaining in the world will not change that fact.

 

This is a well thought out post. At the end of the day it is in the best interest of this game to keep subs around and keep paying. It gives them the resources to use to further develop the game. However, it is not in the best interest of subs to keep paying for a product that they deem to be sub-par. Not only is it foolish to spend money on a product you don't like but it also doesn't encourage the devs to actually improve the product. In their eyes as long as someone is paying for the product it's a good product.

I have a simple question. When the expansion is released will subscription still be at $15 a month or will it go up with the expansion? I thought it was a one time deal you buy and the monthly sub is still $15 a month. Can anyone confirm please.

 

same here. i don't have a detail information but suddenly there is a thread that say you must pay it every month. i hope someone can give this information. and i hope it is not a rumor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare

Owner(s) Electronic Arts

Founder(s) Ray Muzyka (retired in 2012)

Greg Zeschuk (retired in 2012)

Augustine Yip (retired in 1997)

 

EA and Bioware are same thing, actually Bioware doesnt exist as company only brand. I had to reply.

 

Huh? What did that have to do with my post?

I have a simple question. When the expansion is released will subscription still be at $15 a month or will it go up with the expansion? I thought it was a one time deal you buy and the monthly sub is still $15 a month. Can anyone confirm please.

 

No. Subscriptions will stay at the same rate. I don't know where anyone gets this idea from.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Thylbanus

If they kept their amount of servers they had on release, then servers wouldn't get so bogged down by the F2P people and or the F2P person running 4 accounts at one time. My problem is that when F2P was released I get tremendous lag now, I never lagged or crashed before that. Once the new content is released think about all the new bugs that will be in the game that never get fixed. Honestly they should have kept things the same and just allowed people to try the game for 30 levels and give them the option of paying for a subscription to experience the rest. As a subscriber I feel like Bioware / EA value the F2P person over the active subscriber.

I thought we went through this already. You arent beeing nickled and dimed. You got a free sub month last summer. For you to be nickled and dimed you would have to give them an extra 3-4 euros/5-6 dollars.

 

Its fine to disagree with the way the expansion is setup, but you are NOT beeing nickle and dimed. Saying that ruins whatever point you're trying to make.

 

I wasn't given a free month of sub, as a lot of other were not. Why?....WelI might be wrong but you had to have a level 50 character to get that free time, so don't include everyone in that statement, but instead some consumers got free time.

From the announcement of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, some areas of the fan base, my self included, have been angered about the nickle and dimming that EA are doing, but the " expansion " as just made matters worse. This started when the cartel shop / F2P was released, this isnt a nee jerk reaction to one thing or the fact that its about $10 its about whats right and fair.

 

After watching the rise of the cartel coins vid, I goto say most of what they say make sense, so I goto ask is this turning into a P.R nightmare for the game ? and really do we subscribers have a right to be angry over $10 ?

 

Its fair to say there's a feeling of a lack of trust in EA / Biowear, we are being asked to pre order when there's little or no info on the forums and there's a LOT of questions about this " expansion " that need to be answered, this could be cleared up right here right now, if EA would come out and say " This is what your getting and you will need or not need the expo for the extra 5 lvls " But they wont.

 

So people are asking, What are they hiding most people are smart enough to smell a conn when they see it, add in EA track record and that is why people are angry, its not about $10, its about the P.R mess that EA find themselves in, It went from Subs wont pay, to Hmmmm wellllll We dont know, to Give me your money, RWZ was another mess that EA landed itself in its all down to poor communication, something EA as struggled with over this last year.

 

So the question for fans is, Do you trust EA enough to give them your $10 and do you think its fair that we cant use cartel coins to get the Expo ?

 

All most fans what is more information, then we can say this is fair or not, untill that info is out there, most people will rage stamp there feet arguing or defending the latest P.R mess, this only hurts the game, but questions need to be asked over this one more P.R mess that swtor finds itself in, due to a lack of thought and a money grabbing attitude.

 

10 bucks is cheap. On the other hand, I am not giving it to them. In fact, I canceled. Value, ethics, business model, track record, and gut instinct tell me it's not worth buying. I bought the CE, the box was prettier than most of the stuff inside. The game seems to lack core systems (basic things like guild mail and mini games)., Slow content release, Lack luster story, Daily quests, No community/ social aspects, a changed business model, over hyping PR, announcing FTP a week after pre launch six moth subs were renewed, and the list goes on.

Its simple the game cost over 150 million to develop and that was a figure that was sometime before it was even released, EA wont keep throwing money at the game eventually they will get pressure from investors to just shut the damn thing down. I think you will find the store and expansion are a last gasp effort to keep the game going, EA wont keep throwing money at something that will never make them any money. It costs money to develop new content etc. and it costs money to keep the servers up and running. Whilst most things on the internet appear to be free people make money out of it somehow even if its just advertising. If you cant see how something is funded then don't trust it!

Life was so much simpler when you put your 20 cents into the Space Invaders machine, played for a while, died, and if you wanted to play again you put more money in.

 

We've progressed to gaming where it seems more like a parliamentary debate with forum members only trying to outdo each other with fancy paragraphs and threats of boycotting the game. I'm waiting for someone to sue them over this from some of the clap thats on this thread.

 

What a joke

 

Pay your $10 or don't

 

Principle be damned, I can't wait to get my hands on the expansion - great job Bioware, what an fantastic game you have provided us over the last year.

 

I'm happy as to part with my hard earned $9.99.

 

See you on Makeb

Life was so much simpler when you put your 20 cents into the Space Invaders machine, played for a while, died, and if you wanted to play again you put more money in.

 

We've progressed to gaming where it seems more like a parliamentary debate with forum members only trying to outdo each other with fancy paragraphs and threats of boycotting the game. I'm waiting for someone to sue them over this from some of the clap thats on this thread.

 

What a joke

 

Pay your $10 or don't

 

Principle be damned, I can't wait to get my hands on the expansion - great job Bioware, what an fantastic game you have provided us over the last year.

 

I'm happy as to part with my hard earned $9.99.

 

See you on Makeb

 

I agree with ya and after doing the math i can't understand WHY people won't buy the DLC. I would have spent 180 dollars over the course of the next year, Now 10 dollars for future content + 20 dollar and my CC for ALL the unlocks i need, i just saved 150 dollars. PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR STUPIDITY, PRINCIPLES BE DAMNED

 

I'm happy to keep/withold 150.00 of my hard earned money:)

I know, right ! $10 won't even cover the sales tax on the 3 new games you'll buy with what you save by unsubbing. And I'll bet you don't spend even a fraction of the time you spent playing SWTOR, playing through those games. Subbing saved me money this year.

 

Only reason I havn't preordered is because I don't want to fight the impatient hoards during early access. I'll give them 5 days to power through the content.

I have a simple question. When the expansion is released will subscription still be at $15 a month or will it go up with the expansion? I thought it was a one time deal you buy and the monthly sub is still $15 a month. Can anyone confirm please.

Monthly sub will remain $14.99 a month.