Jump to content

The Clone Wars (Old series and New Series) as cannon.


Gantoris_Aym

Recommended Posts

Old? No, New? Yes

 

The old was pretty much nothing more then huge fight scenes, there wasn't really any backstory to it there were just bits and pieces of it.

 

The new has more story, and you get a feel for the characters as they are shown more and more throughout the show. Theres a perfect mix of both story and battles thrown in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Old? No, New? Yes

 

The old was pretty much nothing more then huge fight scenes, there wasn't really any backstory to it there were just bits and pieces of it.

 

The new has more story, and you get a feel for the characters as they are shown more and more throughout the show. Theres a perfect mix of both story and battles thrown in.

 

Would you still say that if the live action TV show takes the same time period? I like to think that no one intends for anything outside of the Main Video games and Movies to be concrete Canon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're both canon, but there'll be places where there'll be conflict and one will win out, but it'll likely be give/take both ways. Most notably, when Anakin got the switch from his Ep II hand to his Ep III version. Otherwise, most of the 2D can be meshed fairly easily with the 3D series.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you still say that if the live action TV show takes the same time period? I like to think that no one intends for anything outside of the Main Video games and Movies to be concrete Canon

 

The live action tv showing is going to take place between EP 3 and 4 its not the same time period as TCW.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you still say that if the live action TV show takes the same time period? I like to think that no one intends for anything outside of the Main Video games and Movies to be concrete Canon

 

The TV show is actually more canon than the games.

 

Game canon is on level with the books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what I gather from wikipedia dealing with star wars canon so you can take it for what its worth.

 

By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

 

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

 

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

 

T-canon[2] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.

 

[3] C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

 

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider both Cannon. Can't really beat the post above, so.

 

The other information that I consider to be somehwat important that basically GL story that he created is the true canon and he doesn't really consider anything else to be apart of his story. He mentions that his story his canon and everything else is a parallel universe that follows the rules mention above.

Edited by SeanC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Old? No, New? Yes

 

The old was pretty much nothing more then huge fight scenes, there wasn't really any backstory to it there were just bits and pieces of it.

 

The new has more story, and you get a feel for the characters as they are shown more and more throughout the show. Theres a perfect mix of both story and battles thrown in.

 

So Anakin's progression to the darkside fighting Asajj Ventress after she taunted him and wiped out his squad, or the black hand cave drawings when he saved those tribals from experimentation weren't character progression, nor was Grievous's lessons from Dooku about striking fear into the hearts of jedi to defeat them followed by doing just that to take down a group of five or six, but giving Anakin an apprentice blatantly, and admittedly, based entirely off of Lucas's own daughter who is made out to be a complete Mary Sue to the point of fighting Grievous to a stand still as a padawan is?

 

I mean, you're technically right. Old one isn't canon. Lucas struck it from canon when he created the CGI monstrosity, but your reasoning is basically ridiculous.

Edited by KryloKillian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts.

 

Old: It's got canonized battles and canonized events, maybe the whole thing doesn't adhere to Lucas' vision (what does), but the damn thing is only 2 hours long in the first place. It's got some great moments, and for me, it *is* canon. Plus its friggin Genndy Tartakovsky, the biggest mistake Lucas Enterprises made was -not- getting him to do the full series and instead switching to lifeless CG.

 

Keep in mind the only "real canon" is the movies. ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon if you need info on it )

 

New: I thought it was gonna be crap before I watched it, but it's got some really cool moments, and makes me care more about Anakin and the clone troopers than eps 1-3 ever have or will. For that reason, I consider it more 'canon' than parts of the prequel trilogy (lol midichlorians).

 

That said, I don't see how a four season (thus far) TV series can possibly be considered 'more' canon than a two-hour animation 'experiment'.

 

tl;dr Canon is what you make of it

Edited by tekkamansoul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The TV show is actually more canon than the games.

 

Game canon is on level with the books.

 

No book>game canon. Good example being TFU. Books will explain things opposed to the god power OP SOB character who steamrolls an army of stormtroopers and AT-AT.

Edited by Idunhavaname
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No book>game canon. Good example being TFU. Books will explain things opposed to the god power OP SOB character who steamrolls an army of stormtroopers and AT-AT.

 

C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

Basically I'm going to agree with the poster above you, canon is whatever you want to make it basically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Old = Non Cannon / New = Semi Cannon

 

Reason for my choice is because I can not stand OP characters in ANY form.

 

Now it is true that the CGI version does have its far share of op moments; as mentioned above with Ashoka vs Grevious; but all that pales (imo) to the scenes from the animated version.

 

The one part were mace windu pretty much destroys an entire droid army single handedly; with his BARE HANDS no less; then takes out the droid super weapon in three seconds, followed by him force leaping to a nearby mountain top to get a drink is the most enraging.

 

That scene played out more like a Jedi Mountain Dew commercial than a cannonicly (sp?) accurate take on the Star Wars lore.

 

Also that scene with Grevious taking on the four (or was it five) jedi was a little over the top as well; espcecially when the cartoon show more or less tells the audience that General Grevious > the Star Wars version of an attack helicopter.

 

The animated version of the Clone Wars to me, sits on the same leve as the Force Unleashed video games. Pretty much a fanboy-ish take on jedi / sith and force powers in general.

 

I mean if mace windu was really that powerful then why even bother with the clone army? Just send him to each seperatist planet, and watch as he would proceed to faceroll the entire enemy army by himself.

 

More or less the animated clone wars series and the force unleashed games has given me a deep seated hatred of force users in general.

 

The whole: "Well, I have the Force so I automatically win at everything." veiwpoint is frustrating to me, and (IMO) does not match the way Jedi / Sith were portrayed in the OT.

 

/end nerd rage filled rant

 

EDIT:

 

One other thing I thought I would bring up concerning the GCI Clone Wars was the fact that the droids are mentally handicapped. I know I am stated as being against anything OP in a work of fiction but the opposite remains true as well.

 

Numerous times on the show Ashoka, Padme, Jar Jar, or some other character has confused droids about to capture them. Examples include but are not limited to pretending to be a bad guy with appropriate clearence, cause the droid to argue with each other and then slip by unnoticed, and sometimes even scaring the robots.

 

Granted this is a children's show and the droids operated the same way in Episode 3, but the fact that characters could bluff thier way past robots specifically designed and programed for the sole purpose of war is stretching it a little bit.

 

The most common explanation for this behavior is that the mass production of the droids have resulted in lower intelligence overall. While I can see this side to the subject; wouldn't the droids be more likely to shoot people on sight then ask questions, considering their function as BATTLE Droids.

 

The fact that Lucas gave the droids a "personality" in the form of having an actual personality detracts from the whole Clone Wars series as a whole (IMO). Not only because it makes the bad guys look like bumbling idiots, but it also doesn't speak very well of the Republic if it took them soooo long to win the war in the first place.

 

Maybe it's just my preference to robots like: The Terminator, or Warhammer 40K's Necrons that sets me against the light hearted CIS, but still the fact that they (droids) are called BATTLE DROIDS seems to detract from the seperatists over all.

Edited by Theos_Braddock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Anakin's progression to the darkside fighting Asajj Ventress after she taunted him and wiped out his squad, or the black hand cave drawings when he saved those tribals from experimentation weren't character progression, nor was Grievous's lessons from Dooku about striking fear into the hearts of jedi to defeat them followed by doing just that to take down a group of five or six, but giving Anakin an apprentice blatantly, and admittedly, based entirely off of Lucas's own daughter who is made out to be a complete Mary Sue to the point of fighting Grievous to a stand still as a padawan is?

 

I mean, you're technically right. Old one isn't canon. Lucas struck it from canon when he created the CGI monstrosity, but your reasoning is basically ridiculous.

 

You have an example of Anakin's padawan fighting Grievous to a standstill, I trust? Oh, right. You don't. What you do have are scenes where she fights him for a grand total of fifteen seconds before she runs away as fast as she can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Anakin's progression to the darkside fighting Asajj Ventress after she taunted him and wiped out his squad, or the black hand cave drawings when he saved those tribals from experimentation weren't character progression, nor was Grievous's lessons from Dooku about striking fear into the hearts of jedi to defeat them followed by doing just that to take down a group of five or six, but giving Anakin an apprentice blatantly, and admittedly, based entirely off of Lucas's own daughter who is made out to be a complete Mary Sue to the point of fighting Grievous to a stand still as a padawan is?

 

I mean, you're technically right. Old one isn't canon. Lucas struck it from canon when he created the CGI monstrosity, but your reasoning is basically ridiculous.

 

Theres many instances in the new show that shows Anakin's progression towards the darkside, moreso then the old series ever did. As for Grevious....he was such an OP character in that series, that im surprised he didn't kill Dooku or Sidious...infact im actually surprised that Mundi held as long as he did for backup to arrive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have an example of Anakin's padawan fighting Grievous to a standstill, I trust? Oh, right. You don't. What you do have are scenes where she fights him for a grand total of fifteen seconds before she runs away as fast as she can.

 

This always gets me when people rail on Ahsoka vs Grevious; they keep forgetting that after a few seconds it's pretty clear that it's taking all she has just to avoid dying. Heck, she nearly died (would of if Anakin didn't have Rex set off the demo changes). Plus, I think Grevious was probably playing with his food, to be proverbial.

 

To put it in game terms; Grevious is about to take off the last bits of HP Rex had, so Ahsoka steps in and draws Grevious' aggro. Once she has it and Rex is clear, she runs like there's a crazed cyborg with multiple lightsabers after her so she doesn't get killed in a slug fest she can't win. Grevious follows her, Rex pumps out Adrenaline Rush (He's probably a Trooper) to patch up and gets the glowies with no baddies hanging around to be a problem

 

Anyways; I'm pretty much echoing the 'Old Series was really action, new one is more nuanced plot'. There definitely was plot in the 2D series, but it was definitely focused on action. Heck, IIRC there were some explanations that considerable chunks of the 2D series was meant to be propaganda, and some of it was made prior to Episode 3 (IE, Grevious in the 2D series was made before they finalized him for RotS), so there's that.

 

Really, it breaks down to this bulleted list, in my personal opinion.

 

2D Series:

- Action oriented; it's a thriller, no doubts about it.

- It had a good feel of the SW universe, even with less plot.

- The scale was definitely meant to be 'hundreds of guys at once'

- Overexadgerated a lot. I mean, FFS, Ventress, who's not exactly a hotshot like Anakin, taking out 24+ V-19 Torrents in a span of 5 seconds where explicit ace Jedi like Anakin need missiles to do the same? Artillery platforms exploding just because someone scratched it with a lance? Cool action none-the-less, but stuff like that really breaks your suspension of disbelief.

 

3D Series:

- Plot oriented. It certainly has its action (see Landing at Point Rain), but it is much more dedicated to story.

- It clearly shows characters as we really expected them to be. Anakin most notably probably benefited the most from TCW. He went from a whiner to being a hero, pretty much. A brooding hero with serious issues, but a hero none the less.

- (Likely due to budget reasons) The series scale is sometimes far too small for a battle; take the Bothuwai battle from Season 1 or the first round at Ryloth in "Storm over Ryloth". The Republic deploys what, 12 V-19 Torrents and the CIS only one squadron of droid fighters at a time? (Not counting cruisers). Kinda hurts your disbelief, but as time went on they got better at the scale.

- Too much of a hit/miss series. It's like a glass cannon. If it hits, it's awesome. If it misses... bring out the body bags. However, the misses are becoming much fewer as the team gets used to the series, so it's likely a lot of early misses were a case of early awkwardness. As episodes like "Rookies" show, from the begining they were capable of amazing things.

Edited by LukeDanger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what I gather from wikipedia dealing with star wars canon so you can take it for what its worth.

 

By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

 

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

 

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

 

T-canon[2] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.

 

[3] C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

 

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

 

me and a friend had been debating about this, thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...