what is it that scrappers/concealments have that no other class has?

The best sustained and spike damage in the game.

With that in mind i find one particular thing odd with the QQ patterns of most people on the forums: Why so much hate for op/scoundrel stunlocking, when an assassin has access to an EXTREMELY similar stunlocking opening from stealth?. Compare the 2 below

 

Assassin (Deception):

Spike(1.5 sec stun) -> Maul (5-10k dmg) -> Electrocute (4 sec stun) -> Discharge (6-8k dmg) -> Shock (5-7k dmg)(stun duration ends here) -> Maul(5-10k dmg) -> Assassinate (3-6k dmg)

 

Operative (Concealment)

Hidden strike(1.5 sec stun and 5-7k dmg) -> Laceration(3-7k dmg) -> Debilitate (4 sec stun) -> Shiv(2-4k dmg) -> Laceration(3-7k dmg)(stun duration ends here) -> Laceration(3-7k dmg) -> Backstab(4-7k dmg)

Hey, get out of here with that logic! Logic isn't welcome here.

Implementation of this patch is just lol. Coming from a pretty extensive background of mmo's/pvp.. this is just a utter laugh of a patch to oneside pvp so brutally of pretty much any patch I've seen. Warzones with 3-4 op's in them minimum on a side and seeing people drop in 1-2 secs over and over is gonna turn warzones into nothing but operatives very soon.

 

The entire pvp group aspect has been destroyed with this. I did my daily on my own pvp op first and was just astounded at how quickly people dropped. Then popped on my pt and it was lol.. dead in 2 secs.. to be expected given what I had just experienced on the other side. Toss in the last match.. 8 operatives .. seriously.. I've never seen more then 3-4 of a class normally in a op on a rare occasion let alone 8 op's. At least the match was over almost instantly.

 

My hats off to you bioware... guess I'll just play my op till Wildstar given how slowly you guys are to adjust anything game breaking or even acknowledge it. And then if you do.. it'll take you another year to patch anything. I thourougly enjoyed pvp up until this patch even though pubs pretty much smash imps into the ground on our server.. this though.. what to say.... I guess time will tell.

They get evasion every time they roll, which is pretty good in a lot of cases, but it doesn't make up for them being assassins that die twice as fast.

Nah it's still just a 50% chance and thus very unreliable.

Duran'del here:

Electronet is the best anti-stealther ability in game. They should make stealth-scan's root baseline, though.

Implementation of this patch is just lol. Coming from a pretty extensive background of mmo's/pvp.. this is just a utter laugh of a patch to oneside pvp so brutally of pretty much any patch I've seen. Warzones with 3-4 op's in them minimum on a side and seeing people drop in 1-2 secs over and over is gonna turn warzones into nothing but operatives very soon.

 

The entire pvp group aspect has been destroyed with this. I did my daily on my own pvp op first and was just astounded at how quickly people dropped. Then popped on my pt and it was lol.. dead in 2 secs.. to be expected given what I had just experienced on the other side. Toss in the last match.. 8 operatives .. seriously.. I've never seen more then 3-4 of a class normally in a op on a rare occasion let alone 8 op's. At least the match was over almost instantly.

 

My hats off to you bioware... guess I'll just play my op till Wildstar given how slowly you guys are to adjust anything game breaking or even acknowledge it. And then if you do.. it'll take you another year to patch anything. I thourougly enjoyed pvp up until this patch even though pubs pretty much smash imps into the ground on our server.. this though.. what to say.... I guess time will tell.

I got something funny to tell you.

Stalkers in wildstar have 100% crit chance coming out of stealth in one of their stances....Enjoy.

Scrappers are fine. L2P.

Knew Scrappers/Concealment Ops would be out today and I just happened to dust off my Assault VG last month and get him fully-optimized, huh mighty coincidental that. Scissors meet rock.

Seeing Scrappers crying in /general asking how to play the class after getting wrecked is awesome.

They get evasion every time they roll, which is pretty good in a lot of cases, but it doesn't make up for them being assassins that die twice as fast.

It's a 50% chance, and it has a 15 second internal cool down between procs.

I got something funny to tell you.

 

Stalkers in wildstar have 100% crit chance coming out of stealth in one of their stances....Enjoy.

 

Scrappers are fine. L2P.

Wildstar is a bad, macro and addon based game that is going to be heaven for the buddywing crowd. But if you enjoy trying to get a fair fight with people that are only good because they can write code better than you have at it.

Wildstar is a bad, macro and addon based game that is going to be heaven for the buddywing crowd. But if you enjoy trying to get a fair fight with people that are only good because they can write code better than you have at it.

Personally I'm enjoying wildstar and feel its leaps and bounds better than swtor. Only thing is I'm a complete sucker for SW so I'm screwed.

Went up against nearly all of the best operatives on my server today and barely saw a difference. They hit a bit harder...that's it. The spec is still easily dealt with if you have any measure competence in PvP. Those that are getting wrecked are either under-geared or under-skilled. More than likely both.

If this is Akova from TEH, then, yeah, the only reason that they seemed more powerful was that there were so many conc ops queueing at the same time. Hell, in a match on my scrapper, our team (a pug) beat a team that had Luddott, Tenderloins, Clack, Cladia, and Nova.

I understand that they have stealth + roll + burst + 8 secs AoE stun + all sorts of other stuns + high speed move when attacking.

But I'm not such a pro, so let me try to get this straight:

They also have non-interruptable instant heals?! Like the healer version?!

1. Roll is eating the resources very fast. You can really rolling around much and do the DPS the same time

2. 8 sec AoE stun is breaking on Damage. other than that - opers have only one 4sec stun (and the 1.5sec stun on the opening from the stealth behind the target - that is very situative).

3. High speed movement - it is Dirty Fighting/Lethality. not the Concealment/Scrapper

4. all heals are channeled and resource heavy. The instant one - diagnostic probe heal - is very weak (like 200-300HP per use).

Went up against nearly all of the best operatives on my server today and barely saw a difference. They hit a bit harder...that's it. The spec is still easily dealt with if you have any measure competence in PvP. Those that are getting wrecked are either under-geared or under-skilled. More than likely both.

The main difference for me is that now i have a [slightly] better resource management. I could do more hits before i would be out of resource.. the damage is better but not for very big difference. It is better mostly because of 75% to 100% change of the chance to get second light punch..

But in overall it is still the same playsyle - you need to go either 1vs1 or on to the target that have less than 50% of HP..

The class is very different from others. With class like Mara - you need to jump in to the bunch of enemies. With class like Merc/Slinger you need to stay far away from bunch of enemies, always keeping your distance. As an Assasin you have the luxury to hurl yourself into the bunch of enemies and run away (teleport back) fast.. With oper - you are need to stay hidden as much as you can and only reveal yourself in the precise moments of the fight.. The key to be a successful oper - is to have patience. great amount of patience.

They get evasion every time they roll, which is pretty good in a lot of cases, but it doesn't make up for them being assassins that die twice as fast.

«Increases your effective stealth level by [1 / 2]. In addition, when you activate Exfiltrate, you have a [25 / 50]% chance to trigger Evasion for 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds. Also reduces the energy cost of Exfiltrate by [2 / 4].»

If you are getting killed by a concealment/scrapper in a stunlock, you are very poorly geared. Hidden Strikes knockdown lasts 1.5 seconds, debilitate lasts 4, and your resolve bar is full. So 5.5 seconds total, assuming they blow them on top of each other. Bearing in mind that debilitate triggers a 1.5 second global cd, it basically eats that amount of the stun before the player can resume burst. Thus it's really only 4 seconds where any burst dmg will be incoming. ( aside from Hidden Strike)

If I don't do anything, my augmented obroan sorc WILL die to that rotation.

So please, tell me where to get that abundantly superior gear to augmented obroan so that I can wear it and not die

And lets talk about damage for a second. Fully geared vs fully geared the op/sc will only see around 8-8.5k hidden stike crits. and 5-6.5k lacerate crits and assuming they use probe it can hit around 6-7k. This varies depending on target and current buff/debuffs, but are the average numbers you will see from a op/sc.

 

Now todays buff did 2 things for them, more crits and a wee bit more sustained dmg with the collateral strike change.

Also to put this into perspective, it's actually a bit less burst deception/infiltrate is capable of and slightly less frequent.

I play an obroan geared shadow as well (in premades) and even with proper buff I CANT do that much *reliable* damage. Yeah I can get a 9k+ shadow strike (maul) or even 10k vs bad geared players but then my resource is half gone, I have to start spamming clarvoyant strike eating a GCD doing 2.5-3k damage NOT 6-7k and only once it procs enough, I can proceed with other hard hitters.

Compare with a string of continuous 6-7k, it's just insanely r3t4rded.

Hey, get out of here with that logic! Logic isn't welcome here.

Yeah a logic that puts a 1 minute cooldown in a "regular" assassin rotation just to justify the untenable.

Like we kill 1 person a minute and then go to bed.

4. all heals are channeled and resource heavy. The instant one - diagnostic probe heal - is very weak (like 200-300HP per use).

Super spoiled indeed. What you call "weak", on my sorc I HAVE to spec it, high in the healing tree and only triggers while bubble is up.

With class like Mara - you need to jump in to the bunch of enemies.

Only smashers and even then it's debatable. Mara's CDs are not ethernal and it's wise to save charge to close gaps later.

Maras need to jump in the bunch of melee *friends* more than be the super hero that jumps in the fray (and dies fast or has to waste all CDs). The fact that maras often charge 2 or 3 together is not random, they need to spread the incoming damage. Even more true for those who are carnage specced like mine. Insane DPS indeed but fragile if taken at the right moment.

As an Assasin you have the luxury to hurl yourself into the bunch of enemies and run away (teleport back) fast.. With oper - you are need to stay hidden as much as you can and only reveal yourself in the precise moments of the fight.. The key to be a successful oper - is to have patience. great amount of patience.

An assassin that hurls himself into the bunch of enemies is a noob. It's a finesse class AND excels at tearing down enemy backlines, expecially squishies. Hurling in a bunch of enemies is not the way to play sin. The defensive CDs are in case you get adds, so you can finish your current target off.

With OP you get adds and disengage (if you can) and heal up, with sin you get adds and can buy some seconds to finish your job and then you can't heal up. Gotta wait for combat to end (some times it takes 15 seconds even sitting behind a wall) AND combat force-steatlh often times does not get you out of combat either so you still have to wait behind a wall somewhere, doing nothing.

... or, seeing you are kept in combat (it's bug BW NEVER fixed as it's "beyond their technical possibilitiy") you let yourself killed (to repop at full health) and thus you not only get less sustained damage than an OP but ALSO the same bad survivability. Thanks to a bug, but since it's a permanent bug here to stay, that's been promoted to "class shortcoming".

If I don't do anything, my augmented obroan sorc WILL die to that rotation.

So please, tell me where to get that abundantly superior gear to augmented obroan so that I can wear it and not die

4 sec of rotation.

3 hits.

Your sorc if «fully augmented» = >30K HP.

3 hits that making 30K Damage?

cool story bro.

I play an obroan geared shadow as well (in premades) and even with proper buff I CANT do that much *reliable* damage. Yeah I can get a 9k+ shadow strike (maul) or even 10k vs bad geared players but then my resource is half gone, I have to start spamming clarvoyant strike eating a GCD doing 2.5-3k damage NOT 6-7k and only once it procs enough, I can proceed with other hard hitters.

omg.. rly? you are playing your Shadow this way? i dont even know what to say.. It is so beyound any L2P issues..

I NEVER found myself out of Force on my Shadow. Do you familiar with all your abilities?

You are doing something very wrong if your rotation on Shadow is so weak.

The only explanation i could imagine is that you jumped in the «omg! Shadows are the FoTm bandwagon» and didnt tried to figure how to play a Shadow.

I run 0/31/15 build.. it is not even the most optimal for a damage and i still can detroy enemies in one sequence.

Super spoiled indeed. What you call "weak", on my sorc I HAVE to spec it, high in the healing tree and only triggers while bubble is up.

good luck to try to heal youself for a 300HP per use.

Super spoiled indeed. What you call "weak", on my sorc I HAVE to spec it, high in the healing tree and only triggers while bubble is up.

but sorcs have a free instant heal and the other two baseline heals don't cost you 1/4 of your ressources or a buff that is hard to get, when you want to avoid fighting and heal up for a second. People might not believe it since medicine is so powerful in pvp, but operatives are actually the worst off-healers in game, at least when they are not playing some idiotic hybrid.

I stopped doing 55 yesterday for the reason that with every class despite my scoundrel it would probably be a sheer nightmare. Not because concealment operatives are OP right now, but if there 3-4 in wzs it is just breaking. It would be the same with 3-4 smashers, Deception Assassins, Madness Sorcs and probably even Merc and Pts. If there are enough people with the same spec in a wzs it is just not gonna be pretty. But that will wear off in a few days, when people realize that not much has changed. They buffed the sustained damage, and if you are allowed to you can now pull some decent numbers in wzs. If you are not allowed to you just die as you used to pre 2.6.

Deception/infiltation is still better by a margin at the very niche it and concealment fall it. Assassin still have more reliable burst (crappy sustained but we are talking pvp), better defensive CDs, equal CC, a reduced time on their CC breaker (extremely useful), 30% AoE damage reduction, the best escape tool in the game (phase walk... so if something goes wrong and you vanish is still on CD you still have an oh crap button), and taunts. In a 2v2 you (with another assassin at your side) you can basically taunt both twice, so both of you take way less damage. Unlike roll, Force Speed is free and on a realitively low CD. the 10m hard stun is handy as well (it has a longer CD, still sometimes it is better to have more than 4m range), and most of your attacks are 10m ranged unlike the operative, if you do it smart you can even stay out of smash range. If you get in trouble with force management you still have blackout and can reset that with force cloak (heck, if and operative is out of energy and Adrenaline Probe is on CD it is sometimes better to die than to continue tickeling people with rifle shot). Did I mention that assassins have knockback? No I don't think (dec) assassin are overpowered, but when it comes to pvp they are just playing better then concealment operative in almost every dimension and the patch didn't change anything about it.

Yes i do get ridiculous numbers on the dummy now, that is fine, i will now go scrapper when i raid instead of Dirty fighting (at least for some fights), but despite that you still need to be a maschochist like me to roll it in PVP.

I have played smash on my sentinel (and i feel bad because of that) and you cant even compare it. You literally can faceroll the other team if you have some heal support, and i am not really good with smash. But even the best scrappers and concealments will never even get close to this. Within a week the kolto clouds of doom will return!!!

I respectfully disagree. I've been watching Scoundrels and Operatives using blue 46 main/offhand mods tearing through players in fully-augmented Conqueror/Obroan gear within 3-5 GCDs all day long.

Barring the fact that no they did not kill **** in 3 GCDs that wasn't half dead already.

Level 46 MH/OHs are BiS for operatives thanks to bolster and a total lack of white damage for concealment.

Funny how I did say that all this would happen but the old fanboy network shut all that down and now look. Bioware just love this class and there is nothing we can do about it but roll one.

Personally, they should have added more to defensive abilities and not MORE damage. The game is just going downhill with attack abilities in a cycle of more damage buffs when all players want to do is have a decent fight without having to respawn after 4 seconds.